OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 1, 2018 8:47:19 GMT -5
With everyone that has been fired, quit, retired, or demoted, for be less than good ethics,, Why would we beleive anything that comes out of the FBI,
The so call evidence is only as good as the last person having it.
If your boss is going to do an annual review with you and he's going to review your work product, would you expect he would review the texts and emails you send to your wife during the day, or would he review the documents you created at work in order to determine how good you are at your job?
Being one of the top people at the FBI, is a little different than some flipping whoppers at Burger King.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Feb 1, 2018 8:55:48 GMT -5
With everyone that has been fired, quit, retired, or demoted, for be less than good ethics,, Why would we beleive anything that comes out of the FBI,
The so call evidence is only as good as the last person having it. If your boss is going to do an annual review with you and he's going to review your work product, would you expect he would review the texts and emails you send to your wife during the day, or would he review the documents you created at work in order to determine how good you are at your job?
Being one of the top people at the FBI, is a little different than some flipping whoppers at Burger King. That would be a much stronger argument if Trump supporters did not keep believing what's issued from the WH. Think of all the people who have been fired or quit from the WH administration!
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Feb 1, 2018 9:00:16 GMT -5
Why was it when the text messages first came out showing bias against Trump, It was defended as it means nothing,, nothing at all, Now the is something coming out that appears more favorable, suddenly this is important , completely truthful?? Why is one nothing and the other is so important?
If your boss is going to do an annual review with you and he's going to review your work product, would you expect he would review the texts and emails you send to your wife during the day, or would he review the documents you created at work in order to determine how good you are at your job?
This agent said a lot of negative things in his texts, not just about Trump, but about Hillary, and Sanders, and a whole lot of other people. But they were texts intended only for his girlfriend, not 'work product.'
At the end of the day,it appears he was actually doing his job, which included determining whether or not it was important to review Hillary's emails - and he thought it was. Which runs contrary to the whole 'rogue anti-Trump pro-Hillary' agent story the far right is trying to promote.
Agreed. Its sad but shows a pattern that the supporters of this narrative can ignore obvious things that make their narrative incorrect.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 1, 2018 9:24:17 GMT -5
With everyone that has been fired, quit, retired, or demoted, for be less than good ethics,, Why would we beleive anything that comes out of the FBI,
The so call evidence is only as good as the last person having it. If your boss is going to do an annual review with you and he's going to review your work product, would you expect he would review the texts and emails you send to your wife during the day, or would he review the documents you created at work in order to determine how good you are at your job?
Being one of the top people at the FBI, is a little different than some flipping whoppers at Burger King. That would be a much stronger argument if Trump supporters did not keep believing what's issued from the WH. Think of all the people who have been fired or quit from the WH administration!
What does that have to do with the FBI investigation?
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 1, 2018 9:33:44 GMT -5
theamericanscoop.com/sekulow-strzok-page-texts-reveal-fbi-hid-reports-on-hillary-probe-from-congress-and-admitted-its-going-to-come-out-in-foias-and-inflame-congress-video/‘ Thing is, there are very inflammatory things in the 302’s’ [that’s the agents’ reports] that we didn’t turn over to Congress because they weren’t relevant to understanding the focus of the investigation’.
‘ These are going to come out in FOIA’s and absolutely inflame Congress…’
Why would something that were not relevant inflame Congress? Jay Sekulow pointed out that the FBI agents were shielding reports from Congress.
Nathanael Bennett, Director of Government Affairs for the ACLJ expressed his shock that the FBI agents were admitting to stonewalling Congress.
This is just the tip of the iceberg as there are thousands of Page-Strzok text messages that still haven’t be released to the public yet.
Honesty and ethics are really hard to find!
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 1, 2018 10:07:51 GMT -5
With everyone that has been fired, quit, retired, or demoted, for be less than good ethics,, Why would we beleive anything that comes out of the FBI, Congratulations, you have swallowed the far right dark matter/black holes Hillary conspiracy hook, line and sinker, and you are perfectly prepared to dismiss the findings of the Mueller probe as hopelessly partisian gobblegook from a DOJ that is part of the dark underground silent coup international cabal group - the same ones who ran that child sex ring out of a pizza joint in DC.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 1, 2018 11:43:26 GMT -5
Why was it when the text messages first came out showing bias against Trump, It was defended as it means nothing,, nothing at all, i heard this morning that Peter Strzok (sic), the same guy who is being accused of being the pro-Clinton, anti-Trump guy at the FBI, was responsible for that. Nunez & Co's "counterpunch" is smelling more and more like rotten cabbages every day.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 1, 2018 11:44:49 GMT -5
Honesty and ethics are really hard to find! especially at a site that reads "Americans Coop". full of chicken shit.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 1, 2018 12:03:56 GMT -5
It’s interesting times we live in.
The democrats are trying to discredit a supposedly partisan memo that’s supposedly to discredit a partisan investigation based on a supposedly partisan dossier.
It’s clear that no matter what happens in regards to Trump/Russia and how it was handled, both sides will accuse the other of being party hacks.
It’s really impossible to assess the memo unless it’s released. Then we can draw our own conclusions. I’m willing to keep an open mind.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Feb 1, 2018 12:19:09 GMT -5
Bold words make it so. Impeachment is near. Your good ole grabber is GUILTY of collusion with the Russian Government and laundering their money. MARK MY WORDS. I'm sorry, but you didn't use bold larger font or a different color. It cannot possibly be true.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 1, 2018 13:55:50 GMT -5
It’s interesting times we live in. The democrats are trying to discredit a supposedly partisan memo that’s supposedly to discredit a partisan investigation based on a supposedly partisan dossier. It’s clear that no matter what happens in regards to Trump/Russia and how it was handled, both sides will accuse the other of being party hacks. It’s really impossible to assess the memo unless it’s released. Then we can draw our own conclusions. I’m willing to keep an open mind.
that's great. but while you are keeping it, try to remember who stands to most to lose in this, and where this "information" is coming from. you don't owe ANYONE a fair shake that has not earned it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 14:13:51 GMT -5
Bold words make it so. Impeachment is near. Your good ole grabber is GUILTY of collusion with the Russian Government and laundering their money. MARK MY WORDS. I'm sorry, but you didn't use bold larger font or a different color. It cannot possibly be true. I can't use the colors and font because when I do, someone whines to a mod that I am making fun of his personallity disorder...
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 1, 2018 15:19:25 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but you didn't use bold larger font or a different color. It cannot possibly be true. I can't use the colors and font because when I do, someone whines to a mod that I am making fun of his personallity disorder... I don't recall seeing any "whines" about your making fun of someone. Now, get back on topic. Thanks. mmhmm, Politics Moderator
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Feb 1, 2018 17:12:29 GMT -5
You are confused with RW fanatic posts. Ignoring is best.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 1, 2018 19:38:54 GMT -5
I have come to believe...because our Donald is as one of our posters so correctly and succulently posted:
"Only that he is the most unqualified and most corrupt person ever elected, well on his way to being the worst president in history, and a singular danger to what America stands for and our position as a world leader."
after he releases this memo and after his second director of the FBI ..[his pick] resigns in protest...he is the Donald, can do no wrong and his base stays with him...will then fire Mueller and end the investigation..
there is no way in h will he allow himself to be interviewed by Mueller and if it is to attempt to destroy this decorated combat veteran and one who's personal qualifications are the highest ...by his own party..[he is a Republican] by the opposition party..[Democrats] for this POTUS that is no problem...
He is corrupt..has been his whole life...and his only concern is not his country..his fellow Americans...only his own survival and in his mind, his feeling that he is the bravest, smartest most capable person on the face of the earth and he can do what ever he wants..he is the Donald, he is the POTUS. His spokes person will say so...his base will support him..the GOP...if McCaine was healthy..I think there might be some push back there...but now......and I believe if he survives in office but decides not to run for a second term..he will be 73 or so..so wealthy...who needs the grief..[his thinking] will pardon himself for any and all crimes...and ride off in the sunset.
Leaving a very broken, divided as never before , nation [not counting the civil war time,] behind him. ...
He will be ready to spend a small fortune on his library that will do all it can to educate attendees that he was the greatest thing for the country..like no one else before or after him...like Moms Apple pie..[or for me Lemon Merange..my favorite..}my Mom's.
]
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Feb 1, 2018 21:02:20 GMT -5
On a related topic, I was just reading how Strzok helped with the draft of the letter reopening the email investigation on Hillary just before the election. So it appears this man whatever his flaws, is not a part of any imaginary coup. Or if he had chosen to be in a coup, it was against Hillary.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 1, 2018 21:15:47 GMT -5
With everyone that has been fired, quit, retired, or demoted, for be less than good ethics,, Why would we beleive anything that comes out of the FBI, Congratulations, you have swallowed the far right dark matter/black holes Hillary conspiracy hook, line and sinker, and you are perfectly prepared to dismiss the findings of the Mueller probe as hopelessly partisian gobblegook from a DOJ that is part of the dark underground silent coup international cabal group - the same ones who ran that child sex ring out of a pizza joint in DC.
Happyhoix, Do you need me to list all the people that has been fired, quit, retired, or demoted,,,,, They did this because there was no problem??
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Feb 1, 2018 21:32:57 GMT -5
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Feb 1, 2018 22:11:18 GMT -5
Why General Kelley has not walked is beyond me...I don't buy the reason some have put forth that he's there for the country's sake...some one with a clear mind, no personal agenda needs to be close to the Donald to help control his more out of control ideas and orders..Believe no one can control or even have real influence on the Donald if he really wants to do something, no matter the consequences. Am thinking the General likes the power, influence and has even bought into what ever the Donald is selling...lost my respect and did have much of it before...no longer...he's become another member of the swamp in a way...
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 1, 2018 23:40:15 GMT -5
If Trump blows up the FBI investigation and if the dems take back Congress in 18, there will be another investigation via Congress. It will be the whole thing where one party investigates the other multiple times.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Feb 1, 2018 23:48:13 GMT -5
If Trump blows up the FBI investigation and if the dems take back Congress in 18, there will be another investigation via Congress. It will be the whole thing where one party investigates the other multiple times. With this administration, and not having half of Congress running interference rather than doing their jobs, it won't take multiple investigations. One will be sufficient.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 2, 2018 7:45:47 GMT -5
Congratulations, you have swallowed the far right dark matter/black holes Hillary conspiracy hook, line and sinker, and you are perfectly prepared to dismiss the findings of the Mueller probe as hopelessly partisian gobblegook from a DOJ that is part of the dark underground silent coup international cabal group - the same ones who ran that child sex ring out of a pizza joint in DC.
Happyhoix, Do you need me to list all the people that has been fired, quit, retired, or demoted,,,,, They did this because there was no problem?? I don't know, Anonymous, possibly they were fired because they didn't toady up to the president? Or they quit because they didn't want to swear allegiance to the president? You realize the DOJ is supposed to be a separate and unpartisan division of the government, they're not supposed to be Trump minions, right?
Do you need for me to list all the DOJ people who said Trump asked them if they were loyal to him, or on 'his team?'
There is a problem. A big problem. Trump thinks every government employee must be subservient to him, to the point they are willing to lie and go to jail for him - if you don't believe me, look at the two people who already pled guilty and the two people who are going to trial who served him on his campaign and are currently snared in legal problems because of him.
The problem is not with the FBI or the DOJ. It's with Trump. But you've evidently swallowed the Kool-Aid and you think the problem is the FBI is full of Hillary robots - which is an interesting theory, given how much time and effort the FBI spent on investigating Benghazi! and the emails.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 2, 2018 11:33:25 GMT -5
give it up, happyhoix. Ockham's Razor is a foreign concept to these people.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Feb 2, 2018 11:39:23 GMT -5
At this point one has to be almost criminally stupid to still be a Trump supporter.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 2, 2018 11:46:08 GMT -5
or a neo-fascist. or both.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 2, 2018 12:28:19 GMT -5
Let the RW spin soon begin: "President Trump approved release Friday of a GOP memo alleging surveillance abuses by the FBI, intensifying a fight between the White House and Republican lawmakers, on one side, and the nation's top law enforcement agency over whether the origins of a probe into Russian interference in the 2016 election were tainted by political bias. The House Intelligence Committee is expected to formally release the document later Friday." link
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 2, 2018 12:39:53 GMT -5
If Trump blows up the FBI investigation and if the dems take back Congress in 18, there will be another investigation via Congress. It will be the whole thing where one party investigates the other multiple times. I think the Democrats chances are shrinking. It's a long time until November though. they are. their predicted margin margin is down about 2%. passing the tax bill helped Trump. the SOTU helped too. if he fires Mueller, it is going to be a bloodbath for the GOP, however. so, yeah- 9 months to go.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 2, 2018 12:49:20 GMT -5
Memo is out. Carter Page warrant was based on dossier, not his previous contacts with Russians, which makes sense. Page maintains that when the FBI approached him in 2013 that he helped them with their case. The FBI has never denied that. It's worth a read. Not a surprise to anyone following the story. you're the diagram lady, right? here you go: www.vox.com/2018/2/1/16955472/nunes-memo-release-diagramAs former FBI special agent and current Yale Law professor Asha Rangappa writes (hat-tip to my colleague Andrew Prokop):
The Nunes Memo reportedly alleges that at least a dozen FBI agents and DOJ prosecutors fabricated evidence, engaged in a criminal conspiracy to commit perjury, lucked out on being randomly assigned Judge Low Blood Sugar who looked the other way, and — coincidentally — ended up obtaining evidence that justified extending the initial FISA surveillance. ...
If Nunes has in fact singlehandedly uncovered this vast criminal enterprise, it’s hard to know what’s more astonishing: That a government bureaucracy managed to pull it off — or that Nunes has exposed it all in a scant four-page memo.
This isn’t the first time Republicans have pushed incredibly farfetched theories of how Hillary Clinton is connected to some deeply corrupt schemes. We made a similar diagram explaining the conspiracy theory around the Uranium One deal. What we know of the Nunes memo’s theory, however, might push a more baseless narrative. i am tending to think that the FBI didn't act solely or primarily on the Steele Dossier. Page was first approached by Russia in 2013. the Steele Dossier came three years later. i am thinking Nunes is full of junk.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 2, 2018 13:00:02 GMT -5
it's such a reach that it would be funny, if it weren't so serious.
it is like accusing Bush of 911.
edit: i want to add something, then bow out for the day.
i have been following this FISA crap for over a decade. i think the FISA court SUCKS. however, nobody here, in the media, or in the public should think that it sucking for Page/Trump is any different than how it sucks for everybody else. and yeah, maybe this is a good excuse for ripping it apart. but don't forget that it has been acting this way for a long time, and it is perfectly legal (because the court operates in a sort of legal vacuum). going after the FBI for doing something that they have done for a long long time is, i guess, OK. but i think it would be good for everyone to remember that the FISA court is kind of a rubber stamp court designed to protect the FBI and the NSA. making it seem like a conspiracy NOW is kind of....temporally convenient, but it doesn't change the basic facts that i have just presented.
so, sure- go ahead and fix it, but don't blame the FBI, or pretend like this happened JUST in 2016. the powers given under FISA are 40 years old.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 2, 2018 15:37:00 GMT -5
I agree that it's been going on a lot longer than 2016, although the FISA stats for 2016 are interesting. The problem here is one political candidate using a system that's well known for abuses against another political candidate. Fusion GPS/Steele leaked stories to the press about the dossier and then the FBI used those leaked stories as corroboration for the dossier in their warrant application. The FBI used those stories even though they knew they had come from Steele. I think this memo is the opening salvo by the Republican side. There's the Senate Intelligence memo to come and the OIG report. The OIG report has already done a lot of damage and its not even out yet. This memo is showing how the dossier was used. I think the next one might show how it was created, if Grassley and Johnson's requests for information are any indication. The memo had a few interesting tidbits that raise a lot of questions. 1) the counterintelligence operation was started in July 2016 due to Papadopalous. 2) the FISA warrants on Carter Page went on for almost a year if I'm reading it right - Oct 2016-17. The initial application and three renewals at 90 day intervals. How did they get those renewals? 3) Given that the counterintelligence operation started in July and the Page warrant was October, who was the June FISA application for? 4) Bruce Ohr is cooperating with the investigation. His wife worked at Fusion GPS and helped with the research. Ohr has turned it all over to the investigation so they have a good idea of how much of the dossier was sourced by Fusion GPS vs. Christopher Steele. Steele started working on weeks after Ohr did and the first memo came out only five days after Steele started working on it. 5) The applications did not disclose to the court that the dossier was created for the DNC, that Steele had leaked stories to the press on it, and that the FBI ended their relationship with Steele over the press reports. FISA warrants can only be re-issued every 90 days if the FBI can provide proof that the investigation has uncovered new foreign intelligence information. The FISA warrant on Page was re-issued 3 times - so what was the new foreign intelligence that was obtained each time it was re-issued? The memo doesn't say.
The memo claims that a FISA warrant on Page was issued based on a Yahoo news article about Page's 2016 visit to Moscow, but that the Yahoo article itself was based on the dossier, which would be a problem. Apparently, though, there was other evidence provided to the court at the same time - for example, an attempted Russian recruitment of Page (and a previous FISA warrant from 2014) that isn't referenced in the memo. One wonders how much other corroborating evidence was purposefully left out of this memo.
Even members of the GOP are calling this a political hack job. www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sen-john-mccain-nunes-memo-putin_us_5a749987e4b06ee97af24494
Underwhelming.
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