My 83 y/o M-I-L Wants to Buy another Big House: Update #63

[Bonny]

Nov 9, 2017 12:01:25 GMT -5 saveinla said:

What happens if you agree with her and emphasize that it is a very good deal? Will she be contrary enough to not do it? Sometimes agreeing with  them makes them not do it.

Lol, that's crossed my mind too.

However WHEN, not IF it blows up it will be our fault for agreeing with her and she'll want us to bail her out of her mess.

I think I have to maintain the "Your choice, your decision and you get to live with the consequences mantra" to keep my own sanity.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to offer to buy a small house closer for the caretaker, and that house is part of their compensation?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Nov 9, 2017 15:38:47 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Wouldn't it be cheaper to offer to buy a small house closer for the caretaker, and that house is part of their compensation?

But then she doesn't have a justification for the bigger house.

[Bonny]

Nov 9, 2017 15:41:53 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Nov 9, 2017 15:38:47 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Wouldn't it be cheaper to offer to buy a small house closer for the caretaker, and that house is part of their compensation?

But then she doesn't have a justification for the bigger house.

And by living with her they will be on 24 hour call.

I give that situation less than a week before it blows up.

ETA: she's gone through this before. Supposedly the reason she bought the 3,000 sq.ft. house was so that her younger sister, her brother and his wife or a caretaker could move in. Nobody wants to live with her "for free" because she's too demanding and abusive.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Nov 9, 2017 16:25:42 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Nov 9, 2017 15:41:53 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

But then she doesn't have a justification for the bigger house.

And by living with her they will be on 24 hour call.

I give that situation less than a week before it blows up.

ETA: she's gone through this before. Supposedly the reason she bought the 3,000 sq.ft. house was so that her younger sister, her brother and his wife or a caretaker could move in. Nobody wants to live with her "for free" because she's too demanding and abusive.

That is why I suggested a separate house nearby.   They'd be far enough away that she can't get to them immediately.

[TheOtherMe]

This does not sound like it ends well.

[MJ2.0]

I'd like to welcome you to a little town called Bury Your Head In The Sand. Population: Bonny and Mr. Bonny.

I would absolutely NOT be rescuing her from whatever happens here. Say your piece and walk away.

[skubikky]

Nov 7, 2017 20:19:59 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Nov 7, 2017 19:25:53 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Oh oh oh Bonny - I have major feels for your situation

Remind me again that you did *NOT* become her fiduciary or conservator, so that when she maims or kills someone with her car you will not be the down-line deep pocket . . . .

 

We have POAs. Not quite ready for the incompetency hearings....

Some of the investment firms require that you fill out paperwork in addition to the POA.
They have their legal departments review the POA to determine if the language in it actually allows the POA to grant ability to make investment/beneficiary decisions.

[skubikky]

Nov 9, 2017 16:25:42 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Nov 9, 2017 15:41:53 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

But then she doesn't have a justification for the bigger house.

And by living with her they will be on 24 hour call.

I give that situation less than a week before it blows up.

ETA: she's gone through this before. Supposedly the reason she bought the 3,000 sq.ft. house was so that her younger sister, her brother and his wife or a caretaker could move in. Nobody wants to live with her "for free" because she's too demanding and abusive.

Sadly, what might, and is likely to happen, is that she takes a fall or some other life changing illness occurs and then it's all moot.
The decisions are all hers at this point whether they make sense or not.
She probably won't have the wherewithal to buy a house and move unless she has someone who is willing to do most of the work.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Nov 10, 2017 8:03:44 GMT -5 skubikky said:

Nov 9, 2017 16:25:42 GMT -5 Bonny said:

And by living with her they will be on 24 hour call.

I give that situation less than a week before it blows up.

ETA: she's gone through this before. Supposedly the reason she bought the 3,000 sq.ft. house was so that her younger sister, her brother and his wife or a caretaker could move in. Nobody wants to live with her "for free" because she's too demanding and abusive.

Sadly, what might, and is likely to happen, is that she takes a fall or some other life changing illness occurs and then it's all moot.
The decisions are all hers at this point whether they make sense or not.
She probably won't have the wherewithal to buy a house and move unless she has someone who is willing to do most of the work.

It sounds like she has resources....lots of them.

[Bonny]

Nov 10, 2017 8:00:51 GMT -5 skubikky said:

Nov 7, 2017 20:19:59 GMT -5 Bonny said:

We have POAs. Not quite ready for the incompetency hearings....

Some of the investment firms require that you fill out paperwork in addition to the POA.
They have their legal departments review the POA to determine if the language in it actually allows the POA to grant ability to make investment/beneficiary decisions.

Yes, most of her investments and money is with USAA and in addition to the speciality POAs we paid $800  for with her estate attorney, we have USAA's POA forms on file.

[Bonny]

Nov 10, 2017 8:03:44 GMT -5 skubikky said:

Nov 9, 2017 16:25:42 GMT -5 Bonny said:

And by living with her they will be on 24 hour call.

I give that situation less than a week before it blows up.

ETA: she's gone through this before. Supposedly the reason she bought the 3,000 sq.ft. house was so that her younger sister, her brother and his wife or a caretaker could move in. Nobody wants to live with her "for free" because she's too demanding and abusive.

Sadly, what might, and is likely to happen, is that she takes a fall or some other life changing illness occurs and then it's all moot.
The decisions are all hers at this point whether they make sense or not.
She probably won't have the wherewithal to buy a house and move unless she has someone who is willing to do most of the work.

Regarding the bolded part, I had this very same discussion with DH last night. I asked him, "Do you think your mom has the cognitive ability to do these transactions without our help?" He's not sure.

I think showing the house with her in there is going to be a nightmare for the real estate community. Her feeding schedule for the dogs is almost hourly and I don't think she's going to be flexible or accommodating for showings. Oh and I think she's going to want top dollar since she's dumped so much money into the house over the time she's lived there.

And back to your first sentence, I totally agree with you. I don't think anything is going to happen short of a crisis.

[skubikky]

Nov 10, 2017 10:47:33 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Nov 10, 2017 8:03:44 GMT -5 skubikky said:

Sadly, what might, and is likely to happen, is that she takes a fall or some other life changing illness occurs and then it's all moot.
The decisions are all hers at this point whether they make sense or not.
She probably won't have the wherewithal to buy a house and move unless she has someone who is willing to do most of the work.

Regarding the bolded part, I had this very same discussion with DH last night. I asked him, "Do you think your mom has the cognitive ability to do these transactions without our help?" He's not sure.

I think showing the house with her in there is going to be a nightmare for the real estate community. Her feeding schedule for the dogs is almost hourly and I don't think she's going to be flexible or accommodating for showings. Oh and I think she's going to want top dollar since she's dumped so much money into the house over the time she's lived there.

And back to your first sentence, I totally agree with you. I don't think anything is going to happen short of a crisis.

Yes, when I said the wherewithal I meant dealing with all that would be required to be done to buy/sell and move house.
Quite a bit for someone young and energetic.....epic for someone elderly and with health and emotional issues.

You and your DH are in my thoughts.
My Dad was very compliant in these last few years before he passed away.   Actually, he was at his happiest.
Mom is slowly getting with the program but is more of a control person so it's taking time.

[Bonny]

Nov 10, 2017 8:45:12 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Nov 10, 2017 8:03:44 GMT -5 skubikky said:

Sadly, what might, and is likely to happen, is that she takes a fall or some other life changing illness occurs and then it's all moot.
The decisions are all hers at this point whether they make sense or not.
She probably won't have the wherewithal to buy a house and move unless she has someone who is willing to do most of the work.

It sounds like she has resources....lots of them.

She does however she seems to have a spending problem associated with her mental issues. She's burning through around $150k/yr as a single woman with a $200k mortgage in a state that doesn't tax most of her $120kish Federal pension. She also has a "Cadillac" level LTC policy which pays for her caretaker and some other household expenses.

I told DH I think an assisted living arrangement would be cheaper but that's not going to happen unless she's incapacitated.

[Bonny]

Nov 10, 2017 10:56:28 GMT -5 skubikky said:

Nov 10, 2017 10:47:33 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Regarding the bolded part, I had this very same discussion with DH last night. I asked him, "Do you think your mom has the cognitive ability to do these transactions without our help?" He's not sure.

I think showing the house with her in there is going to be a nightmare for the real estate community. Her feeding schedule for the dogs is almost hourly and I don't think she's going to be flexible or accommodating for showings. Oh and I think she's going to want top dollar since she's dumped so much money into the house over the time she's lived there.

And back to your first sentence, I totally agree with you. I don't think anything is going to happen short of a crisis.

Yes, when I said the wherewithal I meant dealing with all that would be required to be done to buy/sell and move house.
Quite a bit for someone young and energetic.....epic for someone elderly and with health and emotional issues.

You and your DH are in my thoughts.
My Dad was very compliant in these last few years before he passed away.   Actually, he was at his happiest.
Mom is slowly getting with the program but is more of a control person so it's taking time.

Thank you.

Yes, control person is the problem. EVERYTHING must be her way/on her terms. Her inability to compromise or have empathy for others is the reason she cannot maintain relationships.

[TheOtherMe]

That is sad, but it's her doing.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Um, LO to McMinville is not a move up. Does she not actually wish to acknowledge that?

Don’t get me wrong—
I think McMinville is great!

[Bonny]

Nov 10, 2017 13:24:14 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Um, LO to McMinville is not a move up. Does she not actually wish to acknowledge that?

Don’t get me wrong—
I think McMinville is great!

She sees that she can get a newer house for a lot more money without acknowledging the trade-offs such as McMinnville is further out and means more driving etc.

I had to laugh when she said the real estate agents told her the values in L.O. are going down.

Her issue for the last couple of years is her dwelling on how everyone hates her and screws her over. She's decided that her S-I-L ruined L.O. for her after SIL "killed her brother".  Poor man was in skilled nursing for years (Parkinson's) and had a DNR. MIL knows better than everyone else and thinks that more should have been done.

You can't fix crazy.

[Works4me]

Too bad you can't manipulate her snobbish nature to convince her that LO is where the we'll to do live and that McMinnville is where the poorer people live now. I'm not saying that's true but just imagining ways to stop the MIL Express. 



Some people are just not going to be happy no matter what. In fact, many of those same people are happiest when they have something to be unhappy about. Exhibit 1 - your MIL.

It sounds to me like you are doing everything that can be done. Until they are found incompetent, have the right to exercise poor judgement and make poor decisions based on that poor judgement. It is a fine line. IMHO, you are handling a difficult and challenging in the best way possible. It's not in any way a case of sticking your head in the sand. Rather, it is doing the best you can in a situation that has no winners, because in the end everyone dies.

After thirty years in medical social work, onebthing that I know to ge true is that aging is not for the faint of heart. Many times, elderly people choose to live in a slowly declining situation until something happens to make it untenable. As was said above, sadly it is often a fall or an illness that necessitates a change in their living situation. It's too bad that people don't make these changes sooner but living with the consequences is also a result of poor judgement and bad decisions. 

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Nov 10, 2017 20:33:44 GMT -5 Works4me said:

Too bad you can't manipulate her snobbish nature to convince her that LO is where the we'll to do live and that McMinnville is where the poorer people live now. I'm not saying that's true but just imagining ways to stop the MIL Express. 



This is actually true. That’s why I’m surprised Bonny’s MIL is even considering moving to a new town at all.

Lake Oswego is the richest town in Oregon. McMinville is a nice place, but it is not Lake Oswego. DH and I make $200K/year; we cannot afford to move to Lake Oswego.

[debthaven]

Too bad you can't manipulate her snobbish nature to convince her that LO is where the we'll to do live and that McMinnville is where the poorer people live now.

Since Knee Deep in Water Chloe say this is true, why not try that argument?

This said, in the end your MIL will do whatever she wants, but you could gain time, and given her age, time could pre-empt that move.
 
Good luck Bonny.

[Bonny]

Nov 11, 2017 14:15:10 GMT -5 debthaven said:

Too bad you can't manipulate her snobbish nature to convince her that LO is where the we'll to do live and that McMinnville is where the poorer people live now.

Since Knee Deep in Water Chloe say this is true, why not try that argument?

This said, in the end your MIL will do whatever she wants, but you could gain time, and given her age, time could pre-empt that move.
 
Good luck Bonny.

She knows it which is why she moved there in the first place; she was less than 1/2 mile from her brother (the doctor) and his wife. According to MIL, SIL has given the house bad memories and all of her neighbors don't talk to her and have turned on her.

Never mind that she brings this stuff on herself by letting her barking dogs out at 4:30 am and screams at them to stop barking. This goes on for about 45 minutes every morning.  This one reason that NO ONE can live with her.

It doesn't matter where she lives she's going to have problems like these because she fails to acknowledge that her behavior IS the problem. In her mind it's always everyone else's fault and they are out to screw her.

McMinnville represents a fresh start...until she alienates every one in the new place.

[CCL]

Nov 10, 2017 10:47:33 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Nov 10, 2017 8:03:44 GMT -5 skubikky said:

Sadly, what might, and is likely to happen, is that she takes a fall or some other life changing illness occurs and then it's all moot.
The decisions are all hers at this point whether they make sense or not.
She probably won't have the wherewithal to buy a house and move unless she has someone who is willing to do most of the work.

Regarding the bolded part, I had this very same discussion with DH last night. I asked him, "Do you think your mom has the cognitive ability to do these transactions without our help?" He's not sure.

I think showing the house with her in there is going to be a nightmare for the real estate community. Her feeding schedule for the dogs is almost hourly and I don't think she's going to be flexible or accommodating for showings. Oh and I think she's going to want top dollar since she's dumped so much money into the house over the time she's lived there.

And back to your first sentence, I totally agree with you. I don't think anything is going to happen short of a crisis.

This may be your answer. If she can't sell her place she will have to stay where she is.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Never mind that she brings this stuff on herself by letting her barking dogs out at 4:30 am and screams at them to stop barking. This goes on for about 45 minutes every morning. This one reason that NO ONE can live with her.

Well on the plus side even if she succeeds in her plan of buying a bigger house and getting her care taker to move in, based on the above it sounds like she'd drive them out long before they ended up with any rights to the house.

.

[happyhoix]

Nov 9, 2017 16:25:42 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Nov 9, 2017 15:41:53 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

But then she doesn't have a justification for the bigger house.

And by living with her they will be on 24 hour call.

I give that situation less than a week before it blows up.

ETA: she's gone through this before. Supposedly the reason she bought the 3,000 sq.ft. house was so that her younger sister, her brother and his wife or a caretaker could move in. Nobody wants to live with her "for free" because she's too demanding and abusive.

This sounds so much like my Mom.

Mom wanted to stay in her 3000 square foot, two story house in northern Ohio, five hours away from her closest child, and decided she would let a college student live in one of her bedrooms in exchange for being a free house servant on 24 hour call.

Having grown up as one of her 'house servants' and knowing just how demanding and picky she was (can't mop with a mop, have to get down on your knees and scrub the floor with your hands (although when Mom cleaned the floor, she used a mop) I knew this arrangement wouldn't last a week.

I was able to talk her out of it by pointing out a stranger living in her home might steal her stuff. Mom was so attached to all her 'things' and so convinced other people would want to steal them, she once nearly called the police to report a break in because she found a lady's watch on the table in her hall. (It was my sister's, accidentally left behind, but Mom was certain a female thief broke into the house, took off her watch while she prowled around looking for 'stuff' and then left, without the 'stuff' and without her watch.)

It's so very tough. You want to help them, but as you get older, your worst traits are magnified, and that makes it difficult.

[lurkyloo]

Any update, Bonny? 

I was thinking of this thread a lot recently...my 77yo father, who has always been absentminded and is getting worse, decided to buy a condo in FL and spend the winters there.  My mother, who is completely obnoxious but does serve a valuable purpose as caretaker/manager for my father, is not invited.  He did manage to get through some tricky legal hoops to buy a condo without my mother involved (doing it directly without spousal sign off is illegal in their home state), purchased it furnished, and drove down there by himself.

I'm pretty worried.  He knows no one there and has no one checking on him (and hasn't done his own housework in forty-odd years).  Trying to hire a home health aide to come by a few times a week...he is not antagonistic, but doesn't feel like responding very often 

[taz157]

lurkyloo - Is buying the condo without your mother involved or invited out of character for him? That does seem interesting...

[lurkyloo]

Nov 18, 2017 11:36:04 GMT -5 taz157 said:

lurkyloo - Is buying the condo without your mother involved or invited out of character for him? That does seem interesting...

No, not really out of character.  My mother spends most of her time yelling at him and mad at him.  (I'm not really sure why they stayed married...the way she treats him is one reason why I cut off contact with her bc I don't want DS growing up thinking that it's normal or OK to treat your spouse that way.  She gets pretty nasty.)  He's been looking for a condo and talking about this plan for years...but I do think he's maybe a little overly optimistic about his own day-to-day competence.  He finally responded to my requests that he tell me the unit number, so now if I can get a firm ok on the appointment I made for a home health aide agency to come talk to him, I think we'll be ok.

He can get a little entitled and oblivious, but he's nowhere near as much a handful as Bonny's MIL sounds to be.

[countrygirl2]

Sounds like they all are getting dementia or something to me. That's some crazy stuff.

I would let the old gal go, no real estate agent can sell a place like that and if they
can't show it won't mess with it long. We had to get the old ladies out of our duplex
to sell it, they were to demanding and didn't want people in etc. Like someone was going
to mess with their junk. I think they were subconsciously trying to sabotage the sale so
they didn't have to move.

Good luck is all I can say, when it gets like that, drives everyone nuts.

[Bonny]

Nov 18, 2017 11:12:28 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Any update, Bonny? 

I was thinking of this thread a lot recently...my 77yo father, who has always been absentminded and is getting worse, decided to buy a condo in FL and spend the winters there.  My mother, who is completely obnoxious but does serve a valuable purpose as caretaker/manager for my father, is not invited.  He did manage to get through some tricky legal hoops to buy a condo without my mother involved (doing it directly without spousal sign off is illegal in their home state), purchased it furnished, and drove down there by himself.

I'm pretty worried.  He knows no one there and has no one checking on him (and hasn't done his own housework in forty-odd years).  Trying to hire a home health aide to come by a few times a week...he is not antagonistic, but doesn't feel like responding very often 

We drove down to the cabin yesterday and she's flying in for a week. We'll spend some time discussing what it is that she's trying to accomplish. She has admitted that moving across town won't help with her S.A.D. or getting closer to her son.

As countrygirl2 says showing the house may prove to be so problematic that she only receives low ball offers. By the time all the expenses are netted out she won't feel that she gets enough to buy a house she likes.