midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 30, 2017 15:29:39 GMT -5
Oh don't get me wrong, thin privilege is definitely a thing. DH and I just disagree as to whether the existence of privilege makes someone immune to being "shamed." The studies of bias on the basis of weight are fascinating, especially when you consider the reactions of other overweight/obese people. You'd think it would be hard to discriminate on the basis of a characteristic shared by 50-75% of the population, but I guess not. I think Hoops definitely has a point about people being able to see themselves as the exception to the rule... "I'm overweight because I'm stressed/starting a new medication/too busy to work out/etc., everyone else is overweight because they're lazy and eat too much." (This is all just generally speaking, not referring to anyone in this thread!)
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 30, 2017 15:31:57 GMT -5
Tall is another biased. I just happen to be tall, relatively attractive, in the target weight range and white. If only I were male, I'd have all the privileges! It is how I can get away with being an average worker and having people think I'm awesome. They did a study that basically found that the #1 indicator of success in a corporate environment, all else being equal...is height! I made the mistake of telling my wife that once, now anytime something good happens to me at work her reaction is "You're not good at your job, you're just tall!".
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 30, 2017 15:33:28 GMT -5
Please post more pictures of overweight/borderline obese people
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Aug 30, 2017 15:34:44 GMT -5
Oh don't get me wrong, thin privilege is definitely a thing. DH and I just disagree as to whether the existence of privilege makes someone immune to being "shamed." The studies of bias on the basis of weight are fascinating, especially when you consider the reactions of other overweight/obese people. You'd think it would be hard to discriminate on the basis of a characteristic shared by 50-75% of the population, but I guess not. I think Hoops definitely has a point about people being able to see themselves as the exception to the rule... "I'm overweight because I'm stressed/starting a new medication/too busy to work out/etc., everyone else is overweight because they're lazy and eat too much." (This is all just generally speaking, not referring to anyone in this thread!) Unless you are a medical professional, it is pretty much never okay to comment on other people's eating habits, or weight. Possibly exceptions for close family, but even in that case, I would tend to take a "mind your own business" approach.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 15:37:54 GMT -5
FWIW, my son DOES believe the calculators and has self-esteem issues because of it. I'm the one that thinks they're BS for him, especially since he's still growing.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 30, 2017 15:39:29 GMT -5
Oh don't get me wrong, thin privilege is definitely a thing. DH and I just disagree as to whether the existence of privilege makes someone immune to being "shamed." The studies of bias on the basis of weight are fascinating, especially when you consider the reactions of other overweight/obese people. You'd think it would be hard to discriminate on the basis of a characteristic shared by 50-75% of the population, but I guess not. I think Hoops definitely has a point about people being able to see themselves as the exception to the rule... "I'm overweight because I'm stressed/starting a new medication/too busy to work out/etc., everyone else is overweight because they're lazy and eat too much." (This is all just generally speaking, not referring to anyone in this thread!) My opinion on the "shame" thing. The existence of privilege doesn't make you immune from being "shamed"...it just means that nobody is going to feel bad for you when it happens. Depending on the prevailing societal perception at the time, that means you may not get the "backlash" against the shamers that otherwise seems to be the trend these days. I can imagine that makes the person being shamed feel even worse at a personal level.
IMO we tend to think of "shaming" far too much at a broad level, and far too little at an individual level.
For example...someone obese posts a photo in a bikini, they're going to get people making fun of them and shaming them. They're also going to get a huge portion of people giving them positive messages and "shaming the shamers".
You have a skinny person post a photo and you're more likely to get shamers talking about how she needs to eat something, and few people who feel the need to take up the poster's cause and "shame the shamers" because nobody feels bad for the skinny girl.
It does very little for the skinny woman being shamed to be told that "skinny people have historically had privilege". Nobody cares about what historically groups who have shared their common traits have gotten...they care about how they're being treated right now as an individual.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Aug 30, 2017 15:43:51 GMT -5
Life is an uphill battle and it's all about choices. I sit in front of a computer for a living so I try to make it a point to exercise 5-6 days a week and during the day at work I get up to take walks. I like my fitbit because it makes me realize that when I get busy at work how quick time flies by and how little I've moved in the last hour or so many hours. I live in Southern California where public transportation is a last resort and people spend hours each day on the freeway. Just because the average Californian drives 15K miles a year doesn't mean he or she can't go for a walk, take an exercise class they enjoy, go to the gym or even play with their kids. Working OT is a choice that someone has to make. Obviously if it's expected or "requested" and you don't do it that can hurt your career but you can always switch careers or jobs if you value your family/personal time more than you do work time. I want to do as well as I can in my career but at the same time I want a good work/home life balance and in that battle home life is going to win out. No one on their deathbed wishes they worked more. I don't disagree with this, but I also acknowledge that for me as a single person that even with a demanding job it's a million times easier for me to make exercise a priority than someone with a full-time job and kids who pull them in multiple directions. I know lots of people manage it, but I also think I'd struggle to fit in my runs if I had a kid around. Not to mention, I think many people vastly overestimate their level of activity and how many calories that burns, and then vastly underestimate how many calories are in a lot of food.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 30, 2017 15:43:51 GMT -5
FWIW, my son DOES believe the calculators and has self-esteem issues because of it. I'm the one that thinks they're BS for him, especially since he's still growing. Make sure he's using the ones for kids at least. Those calculate things differently. For adults, it's a pretty straightforward formula...for kids, it's still all about percentiles. I also think that for kids, there are 2 things going for them. 1. They're more likely to be seeing the doctor regularly, where they can find out from a medical professional if there is an issue. 2. They are more likely to experience significant natural body changes as they grow.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 30, 2017 16:06:31 GMT -5
Tall is another biased. I just happen to be tall, relatively attractive, in the target weight range and white. If only I were male, I'd have all the privileges! It is how I can get away with being an average worker and having people think I'm awesome. They did a study that basically found that the #1 indicator of success in a corporate environment, all else being equal...is height! I made the mistake of telling my wife that once, now anytime something good happens to me at work her reaction is "You're not good at your job, you're just tall!".
My husband has used the phrase "I'm tall, I must be in charge here." Usually when we are I. Random circumstances and something goes wrong - like when they closed the gate to the parking garage BEFORE the game let out and there were dozens of cars and people stuck. He went down to the booth, found a phone number, called, got another phone number, called, also called the non-emergency number , and then went through the line telling everyone to be patient and help was on the way.
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Aug 30, 2017 16:13:26 GMT -5
the BMI calculators are shit. They don't take muscle mass or bone structure into account. Sure they take them into account, they just take them into account by assuming folks are average. No different than any other type of online calculator with minimal inputs (like how much should you save for retirement...terrible for people who aren't "average" really). I don't think that makes them shit, it's a rough guide, just like other simple calculations that don't apply to every group.
I do find it kind of amazing that everyone who is rated as "overweight" or "obese" by these calculators seems to have some reason why that doesn't apply to them though. "I have big legs", "I have big bones", etc. Seems oddly similar to everyone who is in jail but somehow nobody has ever committed the crimes they're accused of. Or the surveys that people take where somehow everyone rates themselves as an above-average driver. Also seems like none of these folks has ever actually had their BMI measured, seems like that might poke a hole in their theory of why they aren't actually fat. I think that kind of denial is a HUGE driver of people not making changes...if you never acknowledge a problem, you have no reason to work to change it.
I think overweight is easy enough for most people to admit. Even people who are perfectly healthy freak out when they go up a size or gain too much around the middle. Obese is trickier. I think that is where people start casting a side-eye at BMI because it only takes one pound to go from overweight to obese. Weight fluctuates more than that daily. For someone 5'7" that's 191 lbs vs. 192 lbs. So some people might think 10 lbs is muscle or 5 lbs is from bone structure. If they've more or less remained the same size over time and have no health issues, they might be right. I think change in BMI overtime would be a more significant factor to monitor if doctors want to use BMI.
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 30, 2017 16:16:13 GMT -5
Life is an uphill battle and it's all about choices. I sit in front of a computer for a living so I try to make it a point to exercise 5-6 days a week and during the day at work I get up to take walks. I like my fitbit because it makes me realize that when I get busy at work how quick time flies by and how little I've moved in the last hour or so many hours. I live in Southern California where public transportation is a last resort and people spend hours each day on the freeway. Just because the average Californian drives 15K miles a year doesn't mean he or she can't go for a walk, take an exercise class they enjoy, go to the gym or even play with their kids. Working OT is a choice that someone has to make. Obviously if it's expected or "requested" and you don't do it that can hurt your career but you can always switch careers or jobs if you value your family/personal time more than you do work time. I want to do as well as I can in my career but at the same time I want a good work/home life balance and in that battle home life is going to win out. No one on their deathbed wishes they worked more. I don't disagree with this, but I also acknowledge that for me as a single person that even with a demanding job it's a million times easier for me to make exercise a priority than someone with a full-time job and kids who pull them in multiple directions. I know lots of people manage it, but I also think I'd struggle to fit in my runs if I had a kid around. Not to mention, I think many people vastly overestimate their level of activity and how many calories that burns, and then vastly underestimate how many calories are in a lot of food. Yes, it definitely was easier to devote time and energy to exercise before kids. Heck, even eating healthier was easier because there was nobody complaining about wanting something else to eat. But... IMO it's even more important once you have kids to model healthy behaviors. Kids are more likely to grow up and make good food choices when they're on their own if they've grown up seeing you do it and the family has been eating like that for years. Kids are more likely to choose physical activity if they've grown up doing that and seen their parents doing that. It's really, really hard as an adult to completely remake eating and exercise patterns, especially if you have no idea what those look like and you're starting from scratch creating them. When my kids grow up and live on their own, they will of course be free to make their own choices. But I want to give them all the tools I think they need to make good choices should they be so inclined.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 30, 2017 16:30:48 GMT -5
Someone on here once said that most adults continue to eat as they did when they were kids, usually with a few tweaks. I find that true - especially considering the term "kid" includes 10-18 years old. My kids eat differently than they did at 5 years old, and I can see how they have a vested position in their current food. It 'feels' right and 'tastes' right. I can see them continuing that (with tweaks for new theories and trends).
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 30, 2017 16:33:29 GMT -5
Sure they take them into account, they just take them into account by assuming folks are average. No different than any other type of online calculator with minimal inputs (like how much should you save for retirement...terrible for people who aren't "average" really). I don't think that makes them shit, it's a rough guide, just like other simple calculations that don't apply to every group.
I do find it kind of amazing that everyone who is rated as "overweight" or "obese" by these calculators seems to have some reason why that doesn't apply to them though. "I have big legs", "I have big bones", etc. Seems oddly similar to everyone who is in jail but somehow nobody has ever committed the crimes they're accused of. Or the surveys that people take where somehow everyone rates themselves as an above-average driver. Also seems like none of these folks has ever actually had their BMI measured, seems like that might poke a hole in their theory of why they aren't actually fat. I think that kind of denial is a HUGE driver of people not making changes...if you never acknowledge a problem, you have no reason to work to change it.
I think overweight is easy enough for most people to admit. Even people who are perfectly healthy freak out when they go up a size or gain too much around the middle. Obese is trickier. I think that is where people start casting a side-eye at BMI because it only takes one pound to go from overweight to obese. Weight fluctuates more than that daily. For someone 5'7" that's 191 lbs vs. 192 lbs. So some people might think 10 lbs is muscle or 5 lbs is from bone structure. If they've more or less remained the same size over time and have no health issues, they might be right. I think change in BMI overtime would be a more significant factor to monitor if doctors want to use BMI. For doctors, yes, but then a good doctor shouldn't be giving you medical advice off of a generic BMI calculator. But when we're talking about calculators of any kind, there's only so much they can reasonably do. On the topic of moving 1 pound, even if people want to see it as a hard cut-off between obese and overweight, the reality is that you get to see the BMI number itself. There's obviously a difference between 1 pound into overweight and only 1 pound below obese (even though they would both classify as "overweight"). I ring that up more to people's own need to classify things with a hard cutoff than anything else. That's no different than calculators that say "You should have $364,964 saved up at your current age to be prepared for retirement". That doesn't mean someone with $364,963 should freak out, or that they're in the same boat as someone with $0. That's just what you get with calculations and formulas...which is why people truly concerned about any of that kind of thing should seek out professionals who can fill in the picture for them.
The other argument is that nobody has health issues...until they do. Having remained the same size over time is not necessarily an indication of health. That's like saying people shouldn't worry about smoking as long as they've smoked the same amount of cigarettes and don't have health issues...not having issues doesn't mean it's not unhealthy, it just means you haven't had issues yet.
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 30, 2017 16:43:44 GMT -5
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Poptart
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Post by Poptart on Aug 30, 2017 17:43:45 GMT -5
Is your workplace mostly chicks? That might could explain a lot Women. You mean women.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Aug 30, 2017 17:47:48 GMT -5
Life is an uphill battle and it's all about choices. I sit in front of a computer for a living so I try to make it a point to exercise 5-6 days a week and during the day at work I get up to take walks. I like my fitbit because it makes me realize that when I get busy at work how quick time flies by and how little I've moved in the last hour or so many hours. I live in Southern California where public transportation is a last resort and people spend hours each day on the freeway. Just because the average Californian drives 15K miles a year doesn't mean he or she can't go for a walk, take an exercise class they enjoy, go to the gym or even play with their kids. Working OT is a choice that someone has to make. Obviously if it's expected or "requested" and you don't do it that can hurt your career but you can always switch careers or jobs if you value your family/personal time more than you do work time. I want to do as well as I can in my career but at the same time I want a good work/home life balance and in that battle home life is going to win out. No one on their deathbed wishes they worked more. I don't disagree with this, but I also acknowledge that for me as a single person that even with a demanding job it's a million times easier for me to make exercise a priority than someone with a full-time job and kids who pull them in multiple directions. I know lots of people manage it, but I also think I'd struggle to fit in my runs if I had a kid around. Of course but again it all boils down to choices. Having children is a choice and I know that when we start trying and hopefully have children they will be our main priority and what drives 99% of what we do on a daily basis. Making time for exercise and for ourselves is going to be hard but it's something we hope to be able to do for our own benefit which would also benefit the kids. You only have one body and one life and I realize that things happen that add stress, weight and so on but I think a lot of people can still make some time for themselves. Quite a few of our friends with kids still make exercise or something for themselves a priority it's just a matter of what they choose to do with that time.
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Rob Base 2.0
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Post by Rob Base 2.0 on Aug 30, 2017 18:56:11 GMT -5
Is your workplace mostly chicks? That might could explain a lot Women. You mean women. dude, that's obvious
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Aug 31, 2017 9:17:11 GMT -5
I don't disagree with this, but I also acknowledge that for me as a single person that even with a demanding job it's a million times easier for me to make exercise a priority than someone with a full-time job and kids who pull them in multiple directions. I know lots of people manage it, but I also think I'd struggle to fit in my runs if I had a kid around. Of course but again it all boils down to choices. Having children is a choice and I know that when we start trying and hopefully have children they will be our main priority and what drives 99% of what we do on a daily basis. Making time for exercise and for ourselves is going to be hard but it's something we hope to be able to do for our own benefit which would also benefit the kids. You only have one body and one life and I realize that things happen that add stress, weight and so on but I think a lot of people can still make some time for themselves. Quite a few of our friends with kids still make exercise or something for themselves a priority it's just a matter of what they choose to do with that time. Some people can make exercise a priority with kids. It helps if you have the financial resources to hire a babysitter. But, for many parents it's not a priority and it simply can't be while their kids are young. And I do get that. Besides maintaining a healthy weight is 80% diet, and 20% exercise anyway, so if someone has to pick between spending time on cooking a healthy meal and exercise, I'd encourage them to cook the healthy meal.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 31, 2017 9:25:44 GMT -5
Of course but again it all boils down to choices. Having children is a choice and I know that when we start trying and hopefully have children they will be our main priority and what drives 99% of what we do on a daily basis. Making time for exercise and for ourselves is going to be hard but it's something we hope to be able to do for our own benefit which would also benefit the kids. You only have one body and one life and I realize that things happen that add stress, weight and so on but I think a lot of people can still make some time for themselves. Quite a few of our friends with kids still make exercise or something for themselves a priority it's just a matter of what they choose to do with that time. Some people can make exercise a priority with kids. It helps if you have the financial resources to hire a babysitter. But, for many parents it's not a priority and it simply can't be while their kids are young. And I do get that. Besides maintaining a healthy weight is 80% diet, and 20% exercise anyway, so if someone has to pick between spending time on cooking a healthy meal and exercise, I'd encourage them to cook the healthy meal. sometimes you have to move the goalposts and modify what you consider "exercise". Playing 25 mins of Just Dance with DS is exercise. It's fun for both of us, I'm bonding with DS, and we are getting a workout in... all around win. I don't always make perfectly healthy meals, but I do make sure to include a fruit and/or a vegetable each time. I'm all about balance, because that's really what you should be doing and be modeling to your kids.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Aug 31, 2017 9:40:08 GMT -5
FWIW, my son DOES believe the calculators and has self-esteem issues because of it. I'm the one that thinks they're BS for him, especially since he's still growing. I had had the same problem as a teen. I generally ran about 20 pounds heavier than my friends, but it was all muscle. Looking at pictures now, I realize I was solid. Ive always been borderline obese, even when I was competitive swimming.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Sept 1, 2017 8:40:46 GMT -5
For me personally, exercise is more about the overall well being than it is weight control. Like others have said, food and the intake of calories matters most when it comes to weight. Exercise does a great many things for me in general though like help alleviate stress, increase my energy level, help me sleep better, etc. Overall it just makes me feel better. In addition, as our bodies age we need to make sure we keep moving. That old saying "use it or lose it" is true in a lot of ways. I think the main thing is just to stay active in some form or fashion. That might be by taking a walk, hiking, taking adult tap dancing lessons, or riding bikes with your children or grandchildren. I don't think it matters, just keep moving.
Once I moved into my 40's I had to stop doing the hard core workouts. Instead of running and kickboxing I now do yoga, zumba, walking, elliptical, etc. It was hard for me to accept this in the beginning. My mind thinks I am still 25.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 9:07:15 GMT -5
For me personally, exercise is more about the overall well being than it is weight control. Like others have said, food and the intake of calories matters most when it comes to weight. Exercise does a great many things for me in general though like help alleviate stress, increase my energy level, help me sleep better, etc. Overall it just makes me feel better. In addition, as our bodies age we need to make sure we keep moving. That old saying "use it or lose it" is true in a lot of ways. I think the main thing is just to stay active in some form or fashion. That might be by taking a walk, hiking, taking adult tap dancing lessons, or riding bikes with your children or grandchildren. I don't think it matters, just keep moving. Once I moved into my 40's I had to stop doing the hard core workouts. Instead of running and kickboxing I now do yoga, zumba, walking, elliptical, etc. It was hard for me to accept this in the beginning. My mind keeps thinking I am still 25. Totally agree- I'm 64 and I hate running. I do that only if I'm someplace where there are no other options (hotel gym, pool, local Planet Fitness, etc.) I joke that I'm almost afraid to stop at this point because everything will seize up. I've used heart rate monitors that estimated calorie burn and my typical workout burns 600-700 calories- a nice number but easy to counteract with a bag of pork rinds. Monday I have a 35-mile charity bike rode and that will burn close to 1600. I plan to reward myself with a can of vegetarian chili with pasta in it- my favorite indulgence after burning up a lot of calories. Fitness has other rewards, too. I was terrible in HS gym class because it was focused on team sports. I'm awful at team sports. When I moved to this area in 2003 I found that my new employer participated in a local corporate athletic competition and that it was easy to rack up points because the competition was so scarce in my age group for the endurance events (3-mile bike ride, sprint triathlon, mile run, 250-meter freestyle). They LOVED me! I'm still on the team as a retiree and this year I racked up so many points I was one of the 2 female MVPs. They misspelled my name on the certificate and I was still thrilled to pieces. If you can't outrun the competition, outlast them!
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Sept 1, 2017 10:30:21 GMT -5
For me personally, exercise is more about the overall well being than it is weight control. Like others have said, food and the intake of calories matters most when it comes to weight. Exercise does a great many things for me in general though like help alleviate stress, increase my energy level, help me sleep better, etc. Overall it just makes me feel better. In addition, as our bodies age we need to make sure we keep moving. That old saying "use it or lose it" is true in a lot of ways. I think the main thing is just to stay active in some form or fashion. That might be by taking a walk, hiking, taking adult tap dancing lessons, or riding bikes with your children or grandchildren. I don't think it matters, just keep moving. yes... all this. I grew up heavy - sedentary with bad food choices. Once I got into high school I focused on being more active. I realized I hate team sports (other than field hockey) and I love things like biking, yoga, walking, kickboxing, etc. If you're getting your heart rate up and sweating a bit, that's great! Who cares how you do it? My eating habits are better, but I also found more bad foods I like... so kind of a wash there. I would like to be more toned, but I don't have the discipline needed to have abs, lol.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Sept 1, 2017 10:44:18 GMT -5
I actually grew up very active and ate whatever I wanted and didn't gain weight. In adulthood life happened and with kids and the house and work, I wasn't active and I ate what was convenient or whatever the kids wanted. Now that they're gone I'm getting active again and trying to make better food choices. I'll never be a size 6 again like I was in HS, but I'm happy with what I look like now.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 1, 2017 12:29:08 GMT -5
I have been doing a variety of exercise routines for a year. No change in weighy. This week I gave up sugar, dairy, gluten and wine to see if it would solve my pain problems. I lost 3 pounds.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 12:55:39 GMT -5
I have been doing a variety of exercise routines for a year. No change in weight. This week I gave up sugar, dairy, gluten and wine to see if it would solve my pain problems. I lost 3 pounds. A friend at church has dropped a LOT of weight. Her doctor told her to cut back on carbs and at no more than 33 grams of carbs in a meal. That's all it took. I'd give up meat before I gave up wine.
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spartyparty
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Post by spartyparty on Sept 1, 2017 13:20:46 GMT -5
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 1, 2017 13:22:25 GMT -5
I thought the same thing. As I said, mine was elimination to see if food sensitivities are causing inflammation and pain, so I didn't get much choice on what I could consume. It has not been as thought it would be, although my son is terrified that pasta will leave our house permanently (I share that fear.)
I don't know if I will drink this weekend. I have noticed zero difference in my pain. I guess I should go two full weeks before I write it off, but I don't know.
I have learned a few things that I will incorporate that may help keep that 3 pounds away. Or not.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 1, 2017 13:42:11 GMT -5
I have been doing a variety of exercise routines for a year. No change in weighy. This week I gave up sugar, dairy, gluten and wine to see if it would solve my pain problems. I lost 3 pounds. Gave up wine? Life is too short to give up wine!
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alabamagal
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 11:30:29 GMT -5
Posts: 8,148
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Post by alabamagal on Sept 1, 2017 14:15:14 GMT -5
Several years ago my boss and bosses boss ( both male) wouldn't let me join in on their 3 month weight loss bet. I told them they were not treating me fair because I was a woman and they knew I could beat them. Maybe it was also the fact that I was 8 months pregnant that they were worried about.
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