movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 30, 2017 11:36:36 GMT -5
Aren't health premiums mostly dependent upon age? I work for a small office so maybe it is different, but even when I worked for a large corporation (back in the late 90's) most health premiums were based on age. The health premiums where I work seem to be almost completely based on age. We have really low premiums because most of the staff is on the younger end (e.g. we only have 2 people over the age of 50).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 11:38:43 GMT -5
According to those BMI calculators my 15 year old is obese, and believe me, he is totally self conscious about it. He dreads getting on the scale at the doctors office. The kid could stand to lose some weight, but sure as hell not what those calculators say he needs to to be "normal". A lot of it is just the way he's built, and he's been that way since he was a baby on nothing but breastmilk. Back then, it was all praises for how well he's doing being in the 97th percentile for height and weight. His legs are seriously like tree trunks and he's very broad shouldered as well. My other kid? Complete opposite. He was in dance class the other day and I'm thinking how it was a big mistake sending him in leggings because they just accentuate that he has super skinny twigs for legs. That's my niece and nephew. Nephew is 14 and he's 5'10" and weighs 195. He's tall with broad shoulders and he has tree trunk legs. He could lose a few pounds, but he's not fat and not obese. My niece is 13 and she's 4'10" I believe and weighs 60 something pounds. She could gain about 20 pounds and still be skinny. And she eats more than all of us put together! My son is 6' and weighs 230. The calculators say he needs to drop FIFTY pounds to hit the top of the normal range. I'm like WTF? I seriously can't imagine what he'd look like if he lost that much...emaciated comes to mind.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 11:42:49 GMT -5
Aren't health premiums mostly dependent upon age? I work for a small office so maybe it is different, but even when I worked for a large corporation (back in the late 90's) most health premiums were based on age. The health premiums where I work seem to be almost completely based on age. We have really low premiums because most of the staff is on the younger end (e.g. we only have 2 people over the age of 50). Yes, the rate for the group is partly a function of the ages in the group. Depending on the size of the group, it can also be a function of the healthcare costs of the group. My last employer was pretty much self-insured, meaning that they paid all claims but had some protection for extreme events such as a claim for quadruple bypass surgery or a difficult case of cancer. For medium-size corporations, the premium is partly a function of how much the insurer paid out in claims in the past (an indication of how healthy the group will be in the upcoming year). So- employers are willing to pay a bigger portion of the premium for employers who engage in healthy behavior, hoping that it will pay off in the form of lower insurance premiums. The discount for healthy behavior doesn't actually come form the insurance company.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Aug 30, 2017 11:56:01 GMT -5
Aren't health premiums mostly dependent upon age? I work for a small office so maybe it is different, but even when I worked for a large corporation (back in the late 90's) most health premiums were based on age. The health premiums where I work seem to be almost completely based on age. We have really low premiums because most of the staff is on the younger end (e.g. we only have 2 people over the age of 50). Yes, but BMI and smoking status is also included. At least where I work, every time we change insurance companies I have to provide that information via an application to the insurance company. I'm in the opposite position. We are a small staff, less than 50 people, but we skew older (less than 20% of our staff are under the age of 40), and our premiums are always ridiculous. It's also compounded by the fact that most people who are on the younger side are often married get added to their spouses insurance (which is usually better).
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Aug 30, 2017 11:57:11 GMT -5
That's my niece and nephew. Nephew is 14 and he's 5'10" and weighs 195. He's tall with broad shoulders and he has tree trunk legs. He could lose a few pounds, but he's not fat and not obese. My niece is 13 and she's 4'10" I believe and weighs 60 something pounds. She could gain about 20 pounds and still be skinny. And she eats more than all of us put together! My son is 6' and weighs 230. The calculators say he needs to drop FIFTY pounds to hit the top of the normal range. I'm like WTF? I seriously can't imagine what he'd look like if he lost that much...emaciated comes to mind. I'm 5'1" and weigh 158 pounds. My BMI says that I'm obese. I'm not. I'm all muscle. I have a friend who is my height and weighs 143 and I'm thinner than she is. She was shocked when I told her how much I weigh. That BMI thing is crap. I'm starting to build up my arms too, so I'll start gaining weight probably. At the end of the day, the number on the scale means nothing. That bitch lies.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 30, 2017 12:29:36 GMT -5
However, it clearly isn't working as people in this country keeps on getting fatter. More than a third of the population is obese, over two-thirds of the adult population is now overweight or obese. But, I also think many don't have a good idea about a healthy diet actually is, and what an appropriate portion size is, and how many calories that they actually need to maintain their weight. And I can't blame them for not understanding those things. Not when you turn on the TV and you see commercials with huge portions of fast food usually consumed by an actor who is thin. Everyone makes fun of fat Americans but I think we are fighting an uphill battle for a number of reasons.
First of all, we live in suburbs and need cars to get pretty much everywhere. When I was in Paris for a week a few years back, I ate whatever wonderful French food I could cram in my mouth and still lost five pounds due to getting around town by Metro and by foot. (Even when using the Metro, you might end up walking a long distance and/or going up or down a lot of stairs in order to change lines). Secondly, we tend to work a lot of overtime and don't take as many vacation days as the Europeans - when I work a 12 hour day I'm much less likely to get on the treadmill when I get home like I should. And then there is the giant American servings that a lot of our restaurants serve, and our affection for highly processed foods.
I would love to sell my house and move to an area where I can get to everything I need (restaurants, movies, pharmacy, grocery, dr's offices) by walking or public transit, but the only places like that in our small city are the very expensive condo developments downtown. I'd love to ditch my car for a number of reasons but we've spent decades creating our suburban culture, hard to reverse that now.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 30, 2017 12:37:50 GMT -5
However, it clearly isn't working as people in this country keeps on getting fatter. More than a third of the population is obese, over two-thirds of the adult population is now overweight or obese. But, I also think many don't have a good idea about a healthy diet actually is, and what an appropriate portion size is, and how many calories that they actually need to maintain their weight. And I can't blame them for not understanding those things. Not when you turn on the TV and you see commercials with huge portions of fast food usually consumed by an actor who is thin. Everyone makes fun of fat Americans but I think we are fighting an uphill battle for a number of reasons.
First of all, we live in suburbs and need cars to get pretty much everywhere. When I was in Paris for a week a few years back, I ate whatever wonderful French food I could cram in my mouth and still lost five pounds due to getting around town by Metro and by foot. (Even when using the Metro, you might end up walking a long distance and/or going up or down a lot of stairs in order to change lines). Secondly, we tend to work a lot of overtime and don't take as many vacation days as the Europeans - when I work a 12 hour day I'm much less likely to get on the treadmill when I get home like I should. And then there is the giant American servings that a lot of our restaurants serve, and our affection for highly processed foods.
I would love to sell my house and move to an area where I can get to everything I need (restaurants, movies, pharmacy, grocery, dr's offices) by walking or public transit, but the only places like that in our small city are the very expensive condo developments downtown. I'd love to ditch my car for a number of reasons but we've spent decades creating our suburban culture, hard to reverse that now.
I agree about the American culture, but we made it that way. We decided that we need to be on top financially, that we need ALL THE SHINY THINGS, and we need our food BIG and RIGHT NOW. And for the love of God, don't make us wait or have to get outside to do anything!!!!
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 30, 2017 12:40:14 GMT -5
See, I don't find weight to be a good small talk topic at all. Maybe I'm weird, but it seems invasive... much more than talking about kids, weekend plans, etc. I've dealt with "eat a sandwich, ha ha!" comments for much of my adult life and the stigma of fat-shaming doesn't seem to extend to rude remarks to thin or average-weight people. I also grow weary of people droning on and on and on about their diets and what they've eaten today and how they're going to be "bad" and eat some chocolate later and yesterday they did 30 minutes on the Stairmaster, etc. etc... I'm no master of small talk myself, but I can think of at least a couple more interesting things to discuss. I feel like that's what Ava was getting at in her OP. Dieting is right up there with most team sports on my list of 'things in which I can't feign the slightest interest.' (Now, if someone wants to talk about FOOD, not calories or weight loss, I am always up for it. Let's go talk about what kind of cheese tastes the best on pizza and why. )
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 30, 2017 12:42:00 GMT -5
That's my niece and nephew. Nephew is 14 and he's 5'10" and weighs 195. He's tall with broad shoulders and he has tree trunk legs. He could lose a few pounds, but he's not fat and not obese. My niece is 13 and she's 4'10" I believe and weighs 60 something pounds. She could gain about 20 pounds and still be skinny. And she eats more than all of us put together! My son is 6' and weighs 230. The calculators say he needs to drop FIFTY pounds to hit the top of the normal range. I'm like WTF? I seriously can't imagine what he'd look like if he lost that much...emaciated comes to mind. the BMI calculators are shit. They don't take muscle mass or bone structure into account.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Aug 30, 2017 12:45:10 GMT -5
Life is an uphill battle and it's all about choices. I sit in front of a computer for a living so I try to make it a point to exercise 5-6 days a week and during the day at work I get up to take walks. I like my fitbit because it makes me realize that when I get busy at work how quick time flies by and how little I've moved in the last hour or so many hours. I live in Southern California where public transportation is a last resort and people spend hours each day on the freeway. Just because the average Californian drives 15K miles a year doesn't mean he or she can't go for a walk, take an exercise class they enjoy, go to the gym or even play with their kids. Working OT is a choice that someone has to make. Obviously if it's expected or "requested" and you don't do it that can hurt your career but you can always switch careers or jobs if you value your family/personal time more than you do work time. I want to do as well as I can in my career but at the same time I want a good work/home life balance and in that battle home life is going to win out. No one on their deathbed wishes they worked more.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Aug 30, 2017 13:06:18 GMT -5
Our workplace is the same way, one health initiative or competition after another. I'm not a competitive person, couldn't care if I win or loose, but I participate because there's usually $$ prizes involved. I work out anyway, and watch my weight closely, mainly hoping it will go up, but lately I've lost 2-3 pounds even though I eat like crap. I burn more calories than I take in, easy as that.
Anyway, I just got back from circling the doughnut box before I opened this thread, none of the kind I liked, but I've never been shy about eating a whole doughnut (or three).
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 30, 2017 13:07:24 GMT -5
See, I don't find weight to be a good small talk topic at all. Maybe I'm weird, but it seems invasive... much more than talking about kids, weekend plans, etc. I've dealt with "eat a sandwich, ha ha!" comments for much of my adult life and the stigma of fat-shaming doesn't seem to extend to rude remarks to thin or average-weight people. I also grow weary of people droning on and on and on about their diets and what they've eaten today and how they're going to be "bad" and eat some chocolate later and yesterday they did 30 minutes on the Stairmaster, etc. etc... I'm no master of small talk myself, but I can think of at least a couple more interesting things to discuss. I feel like that's what Ava was getting at in her OP. Dieting is right up there with most team sports on my list of 'things in which I can't feign the slightest interest.' (Now, if someone wants to talk about FOOD, not calories or weight loss, I am always up for it. Let's go talk about what kind of cheese tastes the best on pizza and why. ) :;dons flame suit:: As a thin person for all my life I have constantly had people tell me that I should eat more, question if I have an eating disorder and encourage bad diet because "I can stand to gain a few pounds". It's not the pounds I am worried abut it's the cumalative health effects of eating a crappy diet. Just because I "can" doesn't meanI "should" My OB when I came for my first pre-natal appointment decided without even having talked to me that I was as thin as I am because I restrict my calories and was going to make me keep a food diary so she could ensure I was eating properly during pregnancy. I told her where to stick that idea. Now my daughter is getting it from her pediatrician. I got in her face and told her I have been the same weight since HS and the same height since 7th back off. I feel like it goes back to what I said over on the pregnancy thread, doctors are enamored with charts because it means they don't have to think critically. It's much easier to look at a chart, then give the scripted lecture depending on what box a patient fits in.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 30, 2017 13:36:59 GMT -5
It's kind of funny... DH and I agree on almost every generally controversial topic, but we have gone around and around on whether "thin-shaming" is a thing. DH's position is that there is enough thin privilege in society that non-overweight people can't really complain about unsolicited weight comments. My response is that I would be getting slapped in the face on a regular basis if I parroted back what people have said to me. It's an interesting double standard, for sure. I also think too many people, including medical professionals, equate thin to healthy. I've intermittently suffered from high blood pressure since having DD, but that will never show up on any medical document. In all my checkups and doctor's visits since then, if my BP measures high during the vital check, they look at the cuff, look at me, say "oh, that's not right" and take it again 5 minutes later. Once it was like 170/100 while I was at urgent care for a bad case of poison ivy and the nurse didn't even write it down! DH, who is overweight, does not get that treatment. He says it's thin privilege, I say I'm probably going to die early from an undiagnosed ailment.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 30, 2017 13:45:03 GMT -5
My son is 6' and weighs 230. The calculators say he needs to drop FIFTY pounds to hit the top of the normal range. I'm like WTF? I seriously can't imagine what he'd look like if he lost that much...emaciated comes to mind. the BMI calculators are shit. They don't take muscle mass or bone structure into account. Sure they take them into account, they just take them into account by assuming folks are average. No different than any other type of online calculator with minimal inputs (like how much should you save for retirement...terrible for people who aren't "average" really). I don't think that makes them shit, it's a rough guide, just like other simple calculations that don't apply to every group.
I do find it kind of amazing that everyone who is rated as "overweight" or "obese" by these calculators seems to have some reason why that doesn't apply to them though. "I have big legs", "I have big bones", etc. Seems oddly similar to everyone who is in jail but somehow nobody has ever committed the crimes they're accused of. Or the surveys that people take where somehow everyone rates themselves as an above-average driver. Also seems like none of these folks has ever actually had their BMI measured, seems like that might poke a hole in their theory of why they aren't actually fat. I think that kind of denial is a HUGE driver of people not making changes...if you never acknowledge a problem, you have no reason to work to change it.
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Ava
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Post by Ava on Aug 30, 2017 13:53:39 GMT -5
At one point I was down 95 lbs from my high. I've gained back 20 and I'm surprised at how much I notice a difference in terms of comfort and breathing. I prefer when weight loss competitions don't require your weight - just how much you've deviated from your starting point. There might be a couple of things going on at your workplace - for one they are on a team. There is going to be a lot of pressure from their teammates not to eat the doughnut. Maybe some person from another team is trying to sink the others. And like others have said the health of the members on the insurance plan can make a big difference in premiums. Bingo! This must be it. Most of them are on teams.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 30, 2017 14:50:51 GMT -5
Our company did a big, hard push, in your face step challenge. They gave out pedometers and had big prizes and we got constant emails and bulletin board postings and even a call out during a few business meetings. Everyone was incredulous that I was not participating.
A little bit into it, as everyone was reporting their daily totals, things got very quiet. What my company discovered is that people who worked in the warehouse walked a LOT during the course of their jobs. The point was to motivate all the desk jockeys, but the wategouse workers totals were huge. The winner has 10x the steps of the average joe. And all the prizes went to people in a certain type of job in the largest warehouses. Everyone else was kinda pissed off.
After that, we just do things like photo contests with the cutest dog.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 30, 2017 15:00:26 GMT -5
Our company did a big, hard push, in your face step challenge. They gave out pedometers and had big prizes and we got constant emails and bulletin board postings and even a call out during a few business meetings. Everyone was incredulous that I was not participating. A little bit into it, as everyone was reporting their daily totals, things got very quiet. What my company discovered is that people who worked in the warehouse walked a LOT during the course of their jobs. The point was to motivate all the desk jockeys, but the wategouse workers totals were huge. The winner has 10x the steps of the average joe. And all the prizes went to people in a certain type of job in the largest warehouses. Everyone else was kinda pissed off. After that, we just do things like photo contests with the cutest dog. That's what happens when the desk jockeys create the challenge.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 30, 2017 15:02:04 GMT -5
the BMI calculators are shit. They don't take muscle mass or bone structure into account. Sure they take them into account, they just take them into account by assuming folks are average. No different than any other type of online calculator with minimal inputs (like how much should you save for retirement...terrible for people who aren't "average" really). I don't think that makes them shit, it's a rough guide, just like other simple calculations that don't apply to every group.
I do find it kind of amazing that everyone who is rated as "overweight" or "obese" by these calculators seems to have some reason why that doesn't apply to them though. "I have big legs", "I have big bones", etc. Seems oddly similar to everyone who is in jail but somehow nobody has ever committed the crimes they're accused of. Or the surveys that people take where somehow everyone rates themselves as an above-average driver. Also seems like none of these folks has ever actually had their BMI measured, seems like that might poke a hole in their theory of why they aren't actually fat. I think that kind of denial is a HUGE driver of people not making changes...if you never acknowledge a problem, you have no reason to work to change it.
There is some truth to that. There are also people who would look like skeletons if they were in the "normal" range.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 30, 2017 15:04:09 GMT -5
FYI - today I ate an entire small package of dark chocolate covered pomegranate candies. Lots of calories and sugar. No regrets.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 30, 2017 15:04:59 GMT -5
This thread, along with some others, has really made me realize why I left the corporate world. I have worked for small organizations since 2000. I know there are definitely some benefits to working for a large company but I don't think I am wired for it...I hate these things where there is a big push to join something or where they make you feel like you have to hang out with people on your personal time that you spend all damn day with. A good friend of mine works for a very large well known tech company (I won't name it but you probably know) and he is constantly pushed to "hang out" with his team during his off hours. He gets paid very well but gets really tired of this. They have all the things they promote as being great (e.g. cafeteria, place to pay video games, nap room, etc.). They have those things because they never want anyone to go home!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 30, 2017 15:10:23 GMT -5
It's kind of funny... DH and I agree on almost every generally controversial topic, but we have gone around and around on whether "thin-shaming" is a thing. DH's position is that there is enough thin privilege in society that non-overweight people can't really complain about unsolicited weight comments. My response is that I would be getting slapped in the face on a regular basis if I parroted back what people have said to me. It's an interesting double standard, for sure. I also think too many people, including medical professionals, equate thin to healthy. I've intermittently suffered from high blood pressure since having DD, but that will never show up on any medical document. In all my checkups and doctor's visits since then, if my BP measures high during the vital check, they look at the cuff, look at me, say "oh, that's not right" and take it again 5 minutes later. Once it was like 170/100 while I was at urgent care for a bad case of poison ivy and the nurse didn't even write it down! DH, who is overweight, does not get that treatment. He says it's thin privilege, I say I'm probably going to die early from an undiagnosed ailment. I have to agree with your dh. And I've been both very thin and very chunky (I'm at the chunky stage right now ). Much like everyone claims there is "white privilege" some claim there is also "thin-privilege". Like it or not, fat people are judged every day. They are seen as lazy. Fat people are less successful
www.businessinsider.com/science-overweight-people-less-successful-2015-9
one experiment, men and women rated digital resumes that included photographs of non-obese people and digitally altered photographs of those same people as obese.
Results showed that obese job candidates were deemed significantly less competent than non-obese candidates. Interestingly, even overweight participants showed a bias against obese candidates.
"What we found across our studies is that obesity serves as a proxy for low competence," Schweitzer said in a release. "People judge obese people to be less competent even when it's not the case."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 15:12:43 GMT -5
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 30, 2017 15:14:08 GMT -5
I totally see thin privilege as a thing. People are shallow.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 30, 2017 15:18:32 GMT -5
There is some truth to that. There are also people who would look like skeletons if they were in the "normal" range. Overweight/borderline obese. Yeah, and how many of the people who say "that doesn't apply to me" do you think actually look like a professional athlete in his prime? If you're so unsure of whether you are obese or overweight that you have to use an online BMI calculator, you're almost certainly not an exception to the generalized assumptions. I have my doubts that Adrian Peterson was going online because he was stumped as to whether he was obese or not lol.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 30, 2017 15:20:56 GMT -5
I totally see thin privilege as a thing. People are shallow. Even somewhat ignoring "thin"...there have been TONS of studies that say people think attractive people are better at their jobs than less attractive people...even when there is no correlation or in fact the opposite is actually put into the study. And whether people like it or not, thin is more attractive than fat for the majority. You could say many of the same things for other measurements of attractiveness as well, attractive=good in so many of our brains, even subconsciously around things that have nothing really to do with physical appearance (like job competence).
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 30, 2017 15:20:59 GMT -5
Yeah, and how many of the people who say "that doesn't apply to me" do you think actually look like a professional athlete in his prime? If you're so unsure of whether you are obese or overweight that you have to use an online BMI calculator, you're almost certainly not an exception to the generalized assumptions. I have my doubts that Adrian Peterson was going online because he was stumped as to whether he was obese or not lol. whether he was checking it or not is irrelevant. The important thing is what he is classified as.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 30, 2017 15:22:16 GMT -5
I totally see thin privilege as a thing. People are shallow. Even somewhat ignoring "thin"...there have been TONS of studies that say people think attractive people are better at their jobs than less attractive people...even when there is no correlation or in fact the opposite is actually put into the study. And whether people like it or not, thin is more attractive than fat for the majority. You could say many of the same things for other measurements of attractiveness as well, attractive=good in so many of our brains, even subconsciously around things that have nothing really to do with physical appearance (like job competence). I'm aware of all that. We have lots of unconscious biases.
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chen35
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Post by chen35 on Aug 30, 2017 15:25:05 GMT -5
My BMI indicates I am overweight. It's not wrong. I'm also an average driver, at best.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 30, 2017 15:26:26 GMT -5
Tall is another biased.
I just happen to be tall, relatively attractive, in the target weight range and white. If only I were male, I'd have all the privileges! It is how I can get away with being an average worker and having people think I'm awesome.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 30, 2017 15:29:30 GMT -5
Yeah, and how many of the people who say "that doesn't apply to me" do you think actually look like a professional athlete in his prime? If you're so unsure of whether you are obese or overweight that you have to use an online BMI calculator, you're almost certainly not an exception to the generalized assumptions. I have my doubts that Adrian Peterson was going online because he was stumped as to whether he was obese or not lol. whether he was checking it or not is irrelevant. The important thing is what he is classified as. It's absolutely relevant. Calculators like that are built for the masses to encompass the vast majority of folks, not the outliers. When you're talking about BMI, professional athletes are absolutely outliers. People who are going online because they're wondering if they are obese are almost certainly NOT outliers. People who ARE the outliers aren't using those tools, because they don't have that question, because the answer is pretty well obvious. If you're some big, jacked, muscled up person, you're almost definitely not using an online BMI calculator to answer "Hmmm, am I too fat?".
I just googled a few calculators, pretty much all of them disclaim that they are not for some very specific body types, which includes very muscular.
Although, for the record, knee problems are a common ailment for the obese. I'm looking at you, Adrian Peterson's right knee!
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