Time to start thinking about college

[wvugurl26]

At first glance my college appeared to operate that way. I found out about the other stuff later. I know I've been out for a few years but ours were in the $2k range. Still a lot but not $6k.

[Lizard Queen]

Never lived on campus, but looks like dorm dwellers at my alma mater are required to pay for one of the $1550/semester plans. There are a lot of different options for housing, and the corresponding required meal plans for them.

[Deleted]

Aug 27, 2017 18:49:54 GMT -5 milee said:

Wow, and talk about another reason young people are broke, overweight and unhealthy... almost every one of the American colleges requires Freshman at least to buy a fairly expensive meal plan.  One of my son's top choices requires a meal plan that costs $6300 for the school year (doesn't include break times like Winter break, Spring break or Saturday evenings.)  The food isn't horrible and if you are careful, you can find healthy choices   but that's an incredibly large amount to force students to spend on food IMO.  

That seems crazy expensive.  Most of the schools we're looking at are about 8K/year for room AND board.   Meal plans are around $3600 of that.

[Deleted]

Just looked and the School son is at requires lowest plan on campus is 4036 a year, that's 14 meals a week. 

That means 9130 for the lowest room (4 in one bedroom) + lowest meal plan. 

11,650 for own bedroom and 19 meals a week. 

[giramomma]

Aug 22, 2017 13:06:56 GMT -5 milee said:

Aug 20, 2017 6:53:48 GMT -5 tractor said:

Much more expensive for out of state students. My niece is in the engineering program there.

I saw you mention U Mich in another post... talk about expensive for out of state students.  Holy guacamole!  U Mich is one that my son is interested in but OMG, its hard for me to see that the cost is justified for OOS students; approx. $65k a year.  That's one of the most difficult things I think DS is going to have to wrestle with.  He knows I'm willing to contribute $25k per year, which if he doesn't use he could use instead for Grad school which he will have to attend for his specialty.

Ann Arbor, right?

That's always been expensive. I looked at going there about 24 years or so ago. Of state costs were 25K a year. My parents were willing to pay for one year. And when we met with University folks, they were pretty blunt that unless you were super incredible, you weren't getting help.

For me, it was a no brainer to avoid getting in 75-80K in debt way back then...because I also knew I had to attend grad school. And I knew my starting salary out of college was going to be low. But, I guess I was the oddly-wired 17 year old.

(As an aside, it always kills me when we are all up in arms about kids getting 100K into debt now, but had no problems doing it when I was looking at college)..

[giramomma]

My alma matter does not have meal plans anymore. You pay for what you buy. They say folks spend about 650/semester at the dining halls.

Considering there's something like 70 restaurants within walking distance of campus..excluding pizza joints...I'm sure that number is a tad low due to how much students eat out these days.

[milee]

Aug 27, 2017 21:06:52 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Aug 27, 2017 18:49:54 GMT -5 milee said:

Wow, and talk about another reason young people are broke, overweight and unhealthy... almost every one of the American colleges requires Freshman at least to buy a fairly expensive meal plan.  One of my son's top choices requires a meal plan that costs $6300 for the school year (doesn't include break times like Winter break, Spring break or Saturday evenings.)  The food isn't horrible and if you are careful, you can find healthy choices   but that's an incredibly large amount to force students to spend on food IMO.  

That seems crazy expensive.  Most of the schools we're looking at are about 8K/year for room AND board.   Meal plans are around $3600 of that.

Yes, it seems crazy expensive to me, too.  It seems like some of the more expensive private colleges have gone overboard in some of their expenses...  The state schools he's looking at overall have lower expenses. 

And contrasted to all this is the English uni system compared to the American system.  English undergraduate study is much more focused on their particular major.  Unis expect students have done any general interest or exploratory type courses before they start college and so the programs are comprised mostly of courses directly related to the major and the bachelor's degree only takes 3 years of that intensive study.  The only sports are generally intramural type clubs and many of the colleges aren't located on "campuses", but are more just buildings spread throughout an existing city.  Some don't even have dorms.  But even the ones that do have dorms generally don't require meal plans.  To British people, American college seems more like 13th grade, where students continue to live as pampered adolescents while they take BS general courses and are spoon fed everything from their coursework to food.  In the past, I've prickled a bit when our English relatives poked fun at the American uni system, but I'm starting to see some of their points.  

It will be interesting to see where DS ends up.  There are options at either extreme.  

[milee]

Aug 27, 2017 21:14:51 GMT -5 oped said:

Just looked and the School son is at requires lowest plan on campus is 4036 a year, that's 14 meals a week. 

That means 9130 for the lowest room (4 in one bedroom) + lowest meal plan. 

11,650 for own bedroom and 19 meals a week. 

Again, until he's actually accepted and is seriously considering where to go, I'm not spending much time getting into the nitty gritty details of any of the colleges he's looking at, but if my understanding of that one meal plan I mentioned is correct, this sounds like similar (crazy) pricing.  The only difference is that your son's college at least allows the students to purchase a plan that only covers some of the meals instead of all the meals.  

Just a back of the napkin calc, but $4036/14 = $288 for a weekly meal/year x 20 (remember, that other plan doesn't cover Saturday nights) = $5765 if this plan covered the same number of meals a week that the required plan at the other college I mentioned covered.

[Deleted]

I'm just thinking that if he keeps commuting I can buy him a car from the savings on room and board... 

[tractor]

You're all right, the cost of room/board is often more than the cost of tuition. Take U of Michigan for example, in state tuition is a bargain at @$13,000/year, sounds great, until you tack on an additional $14,000/year for room and board. My son is living off campus this year (he's a junior), but rent in Ann Arbor is crazy expensive. I'm paying $700/month on a 12-month lease for him. That still leaves roughly $7,000 to spend on food to match what the college charges. While I want him to eat, I told him he's on his own for food this year. You can get a long way with a loaf of bread and some peanut butter 🙂

[alabamagal]

The cost of room and board has skyrocketed, along with tuition.  And there are some schools that require students to live on campus for first year and get a meal plan. And the more desirable the college, the more than can make you do, because they can.  At one of the schools my kids were considering they had an "all you can eat any time you want to eat meal plan" but when you figured the costs it was pretty outrageous. 

Living at home is a great option if you live close to a college that can provide what you need.  Not everyone has that option.  

My oldest applied late for housing her freshman year and did not get into on-campus housing.  She was able to get an apartment which was slightly more money but no expensive meal plan so she could save money preparing her own meals.  My boys had to live on campus first year, then moved off campus.  All 3 places that my kids went were college towns that had abundant off-campus student oriented housing - they were 3 or 4 BR apartments with individual leases so you did not have to worry about deadbeat roommates.  Costs were under $500 per month as of last year, but some places may be higher, and that included all utilities except you might get a slight overage if you used a lot of AC or water.  One DS rented an older house with 6 or 7 other guys and only paid $200 a month or so, but it was a and not recommended for everyone.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

At Simpson you can house in college apartments that come with a full kitchen.  The school still requires them to buy a meal plan.  $1500 for the bare minimum 6 meals on campus, probably even more now.  A lot of people I know admitted they never even used it.  Nice cash cow for the college.

[giramomma]

Aug 28, 2017 9:59:30 GMT -5 tractor said:

You're all right, the cost of room/board is often more than the cost of tuition. Take U of Michigan for example, in state tuition is a bargain at @$13,000/year, sounds great, until you tack on an additional $14,000/year for room and board. My son is living off campus this year (he's a junior), but rent in Ann Arbor is crazy expensive. I'm paying $700/month on a 12-month lease for him. That still leaves roughly $7,000 to spend on food to match what the college charges. While I want him to eat, I told him he's on his own for food this year. You can get a long way with a loaf of bread and some peanut butter 🙂

Is that for a one bedroom? Because, that's not crazy expensive.

I'm at another big-ten school..and that's pretty much normal. 15ish years ago, studios were going for 500 or so a month.

Shoot, we can't even get a two bedroom in the worst part of town (where they put all the sex offenders because people are too poor to fight it) for less than 700/month.

Three bedroom apartments, again, in decent neighborhoods run 1200-1500 to rent.. You can't rent a 3 bedroom house for under 1500, plus you've got to pay for all the utilities. At least with apartments, heat is usually included.

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2017 14:03:54 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Aug 28, 2017 9:59:30 GMT -5 tractor said:

You're all right, the cost of room/board is often more than the cost of tuition. Take U of Michigan for example, in state tuition is a bargain at @$13,000/year, sounds great, until you tack on an additional $14,000/year for room and board. My son is living off campus this year (he's a junior), but rent in Ann Arbor is crazy expensive. I'm paying $700/month on a 12-month lease for him. That still leaves roughly $7,000 to spend on food to match what the college charges. While I want him to eat, I told him he's on his own for food this year. You can get a long way with a loaf of bread and some peanut butter 🙂

Is that for a one bedroom? Because, that's not crazy expensive.

I'm at another big-ten school..and that's pretty much normal. 15ish years ago, studios were going for 500 or so a month.

Shoot, we can't even get a two bedroom in the worst part of town (where they put all the sex offenders because people are too poor to fight it) for less than 700/month.

Three bedroom apartments, again, in decent neighborhoods run 1200-1500 to rent.. You can't rent a 3 bedroom house for under 1500, plus you've got to pay for all the utilities. At least with apartments, heat is usually included.

One of the advantages of going to school in a smaller town.  Here $400/month will get you a room in a house right by campus with all utilities, cable and internet included. 

[tractor]

Aug 28, 2017 14:03:54 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Aug 28, 2017 9:59:30 GMT -5 tractor said:

You're all right, the cost of room/board is often more than the cost of tuition. Take U of Michigan for example, in state tuition is a bargain at @$13,000/year, sounds great, until you tack on an additional $14,000/year for room and board. My son is living off campus this year (he's a junior), but rent in Ann Arbor is crazy expensive. I'm paying $700/month on a 12-month lease for him. That still leaves roughly $7,000 to spend on food to match what the college charges. While I want him to eat, I told him he's on his own for food this year. You can get a long way with a loaf of bread and some peanut butter 🙂

Is that for a one bedroom? Because, that's not crazy expensive.

I'm at another big-ten school..and that's pretty much normal. 15ish years ago, studios were going for 500 or so a month.

Shoot, we can't even get a two bedroom in the worst part of town (where they put all the sex offenders because people are too poor to fight it) for less than 700/month.

Three bedroom apartments, again, in decent neighborhoods run 1200-1500 to rent.. You can't rent a 3 bedroom house for under 1500, plus you've got to pay for all the utilities. At least with apartments, heat is usually included.

There are six of them sharing a five-bedroom house, so total rent is $4,200/month plus utilities. I know in some places that's not much, but we're from the sticks and $4,200/month would buy you two of the largest houses in the county.

[milee]

It's more expensive, but with a house or apartment, it's nice that they usually have a kitchen and some common area type rooms where they can study or hang with others that are not in their room but still fairly quiet.  And if they have a washing machine, that's golden!

Given the required meal plan thing and the fact that as independent humans they may not want to bother once they're on their own this all may be moot, but I'm making sure DS knows how to cook good, healthy, reasonably inexpensive food.  He's a picky booger, so it's not easy.  

It's been fun to experiment and develop a "cook book" for him though.  He' enjoying that for the last several weeks, the family meals are all based on his favorites, trying to find what would work.  He's enjoying my increased emphasis on him being good at doing laundry much less, however.  

[milee]

Update on applications.

We'll see if he can pull one out of the hat, but DS is seriously off schedule with the app process.  We lost a few days to hurricane prep and the hurricane itself, but I think his issues are more with being shaken and stressed rather than logistics.  We didn't have power at the house for a week after the hurricane and his school was closed for over a week, so I kept suggesting that the enforced down time would be an opportunity for him to work on essays and the general parts of the app.  He didn't.  At all.  And is still struggling to write his essays.  On one level I understand, but am still a little worried.  His essays were always going to be the challenging part for him and what will determine if he gets into one of the top level places he's dying to go... or not.  

He's got a few more weeks before the EA and ED deadlines.  For most of the top level schools, ED (or for certain Ivys - SCEA) makes a significant difference in acceptance rates.  So if he can figure this out before those deadlines, it would help him greatly.

[milee]

And on the funny story front... was talking to a friend (not a best friend, but someone I've known for years and been reasonably close to) about college apps since her son is also in the process of applying.  She asked if there were any colleges that we were really impressed with based on the tour and I mentioned Rice in Houston.  Rice was not just impressive from an academic and resource front, but the students we met were all really wonderful - highly intelligent without an ounce of snooty.  Loved it.  My friend physically recoiled at the discussion, exclaiming that she would never be able to send her son to a college "in the south" because her "biggest fear" is that he would meet a southern girl and end up marrying.... a Republican.  

[thyme4change]

People around here are hiring "College application consultants." Anyone know anything about those. To me, it feel super-douchy, but I betcha we will consider it in a few years. (We are pretty douchy.)

[Lizard Queen]

I don't know. My DH is an independent, but much of his family is obnoxiously Republican. (I say obnoxiously, because it's not due to a nuanced stance on issues, but a following the herd mentality loaded with tons of hypocrisy.)

[milee]

Oct 3, 2017 16:36:10 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

People around here are hiring "College application consultants." Anyone know anything about those. To me, it feel super-douchy, but I betcha we will consider it in a few years. (We are pretty douchy.)

That's big around here, too. 

Many of my friends did that and are frankly a little horrified that I'm not doing that.  To me, it just doesn't feel right.  I try not to do things that feel unfair and for some reason that just feels like cheating.  Also, I worry that it might put my kid into a situation he shouldn't be in.  If he can't write an application that gets him admitted to a certain college, maybe that's an indication that he's not at the level needed to be successful at that college.  

Then again, I'm probably being hopelessly naive about that and am actually putting him at a disadvantage.  After all, if many of the other parents at this income level and college type are doing that, then the colleges will expect we have as well and think either we've hired a crappy consultant or that this kid is just a super loser that he did such mediocre work with all that help.  

[milee]

Not sure if this belongs in the hurricane update or college planning thread. Might post in both.



In a little bit of an ironic twist, several months before there were any hurricanes my oldest son and I had set up two college visits in other states. No big deal, right? Well...



Irma hit us in SW Florida on Sunday/Monday. We didn't have any electricity (not fatal, but a little unpleasant with temps and humidity in the upper 90s, no AC and no hot water for showers) for about a week. Meantime, that Friday my oldest son and I had to leave for these college visits, so we took a sponge bath in the dark and headed off to fly... to Houston. Yep, from one disaster to another. Lucky for us, but the hotel we had reservations with in Houston wasn't badly damaged and had electricity. AC and a hot shower was really nice, but I felt guilty knowing our family and friends back in SW FL and many people around Houston were without.



The Houston college visit was nice. And then we flew to St Louis, just in time for the recent race riots. At least those had no impact on AC or hot water, we just didn't want to get pepper sprayed.



DS is still being a little snarky about the whole thing, calling it our Going from One Disaster To Another Tour. We decided we should just wrap it up and head home before we caused problems in any other geographic areas. You're welcome, people who live in other parts of America.

[MJ2.0]

Oct 3, 2017 16:53:01 GMT -5 milee said:

Oct 3, 2017 16:36:10 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

People around here are hiring "College application consultants." Anyone know anything about those. To me, it feel super-douchy, but I betcha we will consider it in a few years. (We are pretty douchy.)

That's big around here, too. 

Many of my friends did that and are frankly a little horrified that I'm not doing that.  To me, it just doesn't feel right.  I try not to do things that feel unfair and for some reason that just feels like cheating to me.  Also, I worry that it might put my kid into a situation he shouldn't be in.  If he can't write an application that gets him admitted to a certain college, maybe that's an indication that he's not at the level needed to be successful at that college.  

Then again, I'm probably being hopelessly naive about that and am actually putting him at a disadvantage.  After all, if many of the other parents at this income level and college type are doing that, then the colleges will expect we have as well and think either we've hired a crappy consultant or that this kid is just a super loser that he did such mediocre work with all that help.  

If this becomes widespread among the monied population, that - not access to funding - will be the new thing to serve as a social filter for colleges. I hope the college bubble expands and bursts before I have to worry about it because things are starting to get a little nutty.

[tractor]

Milee I can sympathize with you. I've been trying to get my son to complete even some basic application tasks. He at least started to fill out the Common App last weekend, and I've asked him to make a list of colleges he wants to apply to. I have reminded him twice to make that list. This weekend I will sit him down at the table and help him get it done.

In his defense, he has never done this before, and has no idea what he's doing or where to start. I've tried to let him figure it out, but time is running short for the EA deadlines and it's time for me to get more involved.

[tskeeter]

Aug 18, 2017 10:50:31 GMT -5 milee said:

There isn't a high enough score to guarantee admission anywhere from what I'm seeing.  Of course there are all sorts of other factors that can be hugely helpful (first generation to go to college, applying from a state that doesn't have many college applicants, race), but if you're just a middle of the road (parents went to college, lots of other applicants from your state, white or Asian) applicant even a perfect SAT doesn't guarantee admission.  Last year one of the seniors at DS' school had a perfect SAT and 4.0 unweighted GPA and there were several top schools that he wasn't admitted to.

Especially for kids applying to the competitive programs within the schools - like Ross at UMich or even just the engineering or computer science programs at tech oriented schools - top test scores will get your admission application looked at, but no guarantees.  

Guess that shows that colleges and universities aren’t really institutes of higher learning existing to educate those most likely to advance our technology and society.  Instead, college and universities appear to be a big experiment in social engineering.

[Lizard Queen]

Oct 4, 2017 11:25:45 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Aug 18, 2017 10:50:31 GMT -5 milee said:

There isn't a high enough score to guarantee admission anywhere from what I'm seeing.  Of course there are all sorts of other factors that can be hugely helpful (first generation to go to college, applying from a state that doesn't have many college applicants, race), but if you're just a middle of the road (parents went to college, lots of other applicants from your state, white or Asian) applicant even a perfect SAT doesn't guarantee admission.  Last year one of the seniors at DS' school had a perfect SAT and 4.0 unweighted GPA and there were several top schools that he wasn't admitted to.

Especially for kids applying to the competitive programs within the schools - like Ross at UMich or even just the engineering or computer science programs at tech oriented schools - top test scores will get your admission application looked at, but no guarantees.  

Guess that shows that colleges and universities aren’t really institutes of higher learning existing to educate those most likely to advance our technology and society.  Instead, college and universities appear to be a big experiment in social engineering.

Or perhaps these institutions recognize that these aren't perfect measures of a student's potential and abilities?

[tskeeter]

Aug 27, 2017 18:49:54 GMT -5 milee said:

Wow, and talk about another reason young people are broke, overweight and unhealthy... almost every one of the American colleges requires Freshman at least to buy a fairly expensive meal plan.  One of my son's top choices requires a meal plan that costs $6300 for the school year (doesn't include break times like Winter break, Spring break or Saturday evenings.)  The food isn't horrible and if you are careful, you can find healthy choices   but that's an incredibly large amount to force students to spend on food IMO.  

Hmm.  Sounds like many other situations we all face.  Costs are inordinately high.  Not due to the goods or services that you consume.  But, due to the fact that you pay for the goods/services consumed by one or two other people in addition to what you consume.  I suspect we are subject to a lot more wealth transfer activities than we realize.

[tskeeter]

Oct 4, 2017 11:45:33 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Oct 4, 2017 11:25:45 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Guess that shows that colleges and universities aren’t really institutes of higher learning existing to educate those most likely to advance our technology and society.  Instead, college and universities appear to be a big experiment in social engineering.

Or perhaps these institutions recognize that these aren't perfect measures of a student's potential and abilities?

So, things like ethnic heritage, limited family income, or lack of college educated parents are better indicators of potential and ability than demonstrated academic achievement?

[Deleted]

Oct 4, 2017 11:45:33 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Oct 4, 2017 11:25:45 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Guess that shows that colleges and universities aren’t really institutes of higher learning existing to educate those most likely to advance our technology and society.  Instead, college and universities appear to be a big experiment in social engineering.

Or perhaps these institutions recognize that these aren't perfect measures of a student's potential and abilities?

This is so true.  My son scores really high on standardized tests, but he is definitely deficient in other areas that would inhibit his ability to do well in college.  That's what I've been focusing on helping him with through high school.

[milee]

Oct 4, 2017 11:52:56 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Oct 4, 2017 11:45:33 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Or perhaps these institutions recognize that these aren't perfect measures of a student's potential and abilities?

So, things like ethnic heritage, limited family income, or lack of college educated parents are better indicators of potential and ability than demonstrated academic achievement?

I'm going to start a separate thread about affirmative action in regards to college admissions.  It's an interesting topic that has many nuances, so could derail this thread if we debate it here.  Would love to have both of your input on the other thread.