Time to start thinking about college

[Shooby]

I actually ignored them for my first 2 children because I knew that I would be working.  However with youngest, i figured we were getting a bit longer in the tooth so you never know if someone runs into issues or would be downsized, etc so I have fully funded her 529.  For my sons, I just paid as we went. 

[zibazinski]

Good thing tractor just got a 20k raise! 

[Annie7]

My YDS is going to be a senior too. He is thinking of applying to 10 schools - some reach, some safety, some in the middle.

His top choices are Duke and Princeton. He wants to do Bio Med Engineering. We have been doing the college tours. Still have a few more left to do.

He has a good GPA (weighted 4.7) and got 1590/1600 SAT scores on his first try. He has 800 on his Bio and Math SATs and 790 on his Physics SAT. He will have about 12 AP classes when he finishes high school. He's had 5s in all his APs until now.

But these are no guarantee like someone said that he'll get in to his top choices. Extra curricular and other intangibles would make a difference.

Good luck to all the seniors and the parents. 

[tractor]

Aug 21, 2017 12:27:49 GMT -5 Annie7 said:

My YDS is going to be a senior too. He is thinking of applying to 10 schools - some reach, some safety, some in the middle.

His top choices are Duke and Princeton. He wants to do Bio Med Engineering. We have been doing the college tours. Still have a few more left to do.

He has a good GPA (weighted 4.7) and got 1590/1600 SAT scores on his first try. He has 800 on his Bio and Math SATs and 790 on his Physics SAT. He will have about 12 AP classes when he finishes high school. He's had 5s in all his APs until now.

But these are no guarantee like someone said that he'll get in to his top choices. Extra curricular and other intangibles would make a difference.

Good luck to all the seniors and the parents. 

Sounds like your son has a great chance to get into just about anywhere he wants. I know the competition is tough, but he has good stats. I know my son will succeed, he just doesn't have the high SAT scores to put him near the top.

Good luck, we still have a few schools to check out as his interests keep changing.

[Annie7]

Aug 21, 2017 15:39:42 GMT -5 tractor said:

Aug 21, 2017 12:27:49 GMT -5 Annie7 said:

Sounds like your son has a great chance to get into just about anywhere he wants. I know the competition is tough, but he has good stats. I know my son will succeed, he just doesn't have the high SAT scores to put him near the top.

Good luck, we still have a few schools to check out as his interests keep changing.

Thanks Tractor. Good luck to your son too. It's exciting and stressful

[milee]

Aug 20, 2017 6:53:48 GMT -5 tractor said:

Aug 19, 2017 17:54:27 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Purdue!! Much better school for engineering

Much more expensive for out of state students. My niece is in the engineering program there.

I saw you mention U Mich in another post... talk about expensive for out of state students.  Holy guacamole!  U Mich is one that my son is interested in but OMG, its hard for me to see that the cost is justified for OOS students; approx. $65k a year.  That's one of the most difficult things I think DS is going to have to wrestle with.  He knows I'm willing to contribute $25k per year, which if he doesn't use he could use instead for Grad school which he will have to attend for his specialty.

-***  The state university he'd go to - University of Florida - is a reasonable school, but doesn't have strong programs for the major(s) he's interested in.  But... he could go there almost free between merit scholarships and in state incentives.

-***  He could probably get into some of the Ivies and top level schools that have highly regarded major(s) he's interested in.  But... at the Ivies and many of the top level schools there is zero merit scholarship, so the cost would be $65k - $70k per year.  

-***  He can get into some top tier specialty schools or upper-mid tier general schools that have highly regarded major(s) he's interested in.  The degree wouldn't have the same prestige to the general public (although many of them would have the same prestige within his specialty) but he could also possibly get merit scholarships that would decrease the costs to say $40k per year.
 
Not an easy decision.  The schools definitely vary in quality and prestige, but it's incredibly hard to put a dollar figure on that.

[Deleted]

Is free worthwhile if it doesn't lead where he wants/neeeeds it to go? 

Its not an easy decision for sure.

[Deleted]

Aug 22, 2017 13:06:56 GMT -5 milee said:

I saw you mention U Mich in another post... talk about expensive for out of state students.  Holy guacamole!  U Mich is one that my son is interested in but OMG, its hard for me to see that the cost is justified for OOS students; approx. $65k a year. 

There has got to be better options than that. 

[alabamagal]

milee  tough decision.  Isn't your son's plans business/math related?  Uof F has a highly ranked business school.  With my kids, we definitely looked at places where they did not have to pay tuition (state schools).  If you go to the top level state schools, especially in business, you have a good network of alumni at least in the state.  If you are looking at Wall Street jobs, that may be a different story.

[milee]

Aug 22, 2017 13:16:27 GMT -5 oped said:

Is free worthwhile if it doesn't lead where he wants/neeeeds it to go? 

Its not an easy decision for sure.

Free isn't helpful at all if it doesn't lead to where he wants to go.  The problem is that it's not very clear cut.  It's not like a school like UF doesn't have a Math program, it's that the Math program doesn't have a strong reputation and they don't have some of the analytical and finance links that some of the other schools offer.  The big question mark is what part the undergrad school plays into getting in to a top notch grad school.  Because the degree from the grad school is really what will open the doors for him professionally.  It's very tough to tell if he could go free to a mediocre undergrad program and still get into one of the top grad schools, after which nobody will even look at where he went undergrad.  Don't know the answer to that - we get differing answers when we ask those questions.  

It's largely a guess, but I suspect the sweet spot for him would be option 3 - go to a specialty type school that doesn't have the name recognition of say an Ivy, but is known for one of the top math/econ/finance programs if he can get enough merit scholarship to keep the cost under $40k a year.  At any of those schools he'd be able to get into a top grad school and his undergrad degree would carry weight within his specialty.  

[milee]

Aug 22, 2017 14:08:15 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

milee  tough decision.  Isn't your son's plans business/math related?  Uof F has a highly ranked business school.  With my kids, we definitely looked at places where they did not have to pay tuition (state schools).  If you go to the top level state schools, especially in business, you have a good network of alumni at least in the state.  If you are looking at Wall Street jobs, that may be a different story.

Not sure if he'll go Wall Street, but would definitely be looking at those types of jobs and funds.  They can be a snooty lot.     On the other hand, the quants have the advantage of being viewed a little like Witch Doctors - nobody knows exactly what they do and are a little afraid to talk to them.  Their route into finance is not the same route as the people the firms hire to be traders (salesman.)  There aren't a lot of them yet, but it appears that quants can come from much more varied backgrounds than they recruit traders from.

[Deleted]

You got any family that lives in Michigan?  Maybe he could establish residence with Uncle Tractor? 

[milee]

Aug 22, 2017 14:43:43 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

You got any family that lives in Michigan?  Maybe he could establish residence with Uncle Tractor? 

We don't.     And unfortunately I'm a little too square to lie about stuff like that anyways.

[finnime]

milee , try looking again at the Ivies and other top tier. I graduated from one, and in the end the cost was equivalent to my siblings' costs at state universities. The Ivies are very heavily endowed. They make it work, even if it's not called an official 'merit scholarship.'

ETA: Your DS sounds like he'd be very happy at Wharton, at UPenn.

[milee]

Aug 22, 2017 15:42:56 GMT -5 finnime said:

milee , try looking again at the Ivies and other top tier. I graduated from one, and in the end the cost was equivalent to my siblings' costs at state universities. The Ivies are very heavily endowed. They make it work, even if it's not called an official 'merit scholarship.'

I know for students that qualify for financial/need-based aid, the Ivies can even be less expensive than state schools, but I have not heard that for students who do not qualify for financial/need-based aid at all.  I've also heard that this has changed a bit in the last few years - merit scholarship has dried up and need based aid has increased.  If you would feel comfortable sharing any details about how long ago you graduated and if you qualified for any need based aid, that would be helpful to confirm or disprove what we're hearing.

[finnime]

It was long ago (1981 graduation) but I had no need-based aid; my parents earned far too much. I did receive several grants that surprised me, and I was not aware of their being available until the admissions package came through. Although I was qualified as a National Merit Scholar, I had no scholarship from that program.

Check it out. There's no down side.

[Annie7]

Aug 22, 2017 16:41:29 GMT -5 milee said:

Aug 22, 2017 15:42:56 GMT -5 finnime said:

milee , try looking again at the Ivies and other top tier. I graduated from one, and in the end the cost was equivalent to my siblings' costs at state universities. The Ivies are very heavily endowed. They make it work, even if it's not called an official 'merit scholarship.'

I know for students that qualify for financial/need-based aid, the Ivies can even be less expensive than state schools, but I have not heard that for students who do not qualify for financial/need-based aid at all.  I've also heard that this has changed a bit in the last few years - merit scholarship has dried up and need based aid has increased.  If you would feel comfortable sharing any details about how long ago you graduated and if you qualified for any need based aid, that would be helpful to confirm or disprove what we're hearing.

I agree with finnime. Try ivies. They have huge endowment. H and I are both Software Engineers making 6 figures each. Still Princeton paid nearly 20K per year in aid for DS1. Princeton is supposed to be the best in giving aid. But don't discount ivies just for the price.

[milee]

Aug 22, 2017 18:46:06 GMT -5 Annie7 said:

Aug 22, 2017 16:41:29 GMT -5 milee said:

I know for students that qualify for financial/need-based aid, the Ivies can even be less expensive than state schools, but I have not heard that for students who do not qualify for financial/need-based aid at all.  I've also heard that this has changed a bit in the last few years - merit scholarship has dried up and need based aid has increased.  If you would feel comfortable sharing any details about how long ago you graduated and if you qualified for any need based aid, that would be helpful to confirm or disprove what we're hearing.

I agree with finnime. Try ivies. They have huge endowment. H and I are both Software Engineers making 6 figures each. Still Princeton paid nearly 20K per year in aid for DS1. Princeton is supposed to be the best in giving aid. But don't discount ivies just for the price.

Did DS1 qualify for any need-based aid at all?

[zibazinski]

U of Mich has a good MBA program and gives aid not based on need. Undergrad is taught a lot by TA's so keep that in mind. Your son could and should establish residency after a year, in any state. An apartment, a job, register a car and to vote, you're a resident. I don't know anyone who paid out of state tuition after a year. Private colleges it doesn't matter, in state or out, the tuition is the same. My girlfriend has one at Purdue and one at U of M. She lives in Michigan. Costs more for her son at Michigan than her son at Purdue.

[tractor]

Aug 22, 2017 13:44:33 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Aug 22, 2017 13:06:56 GMT -5 milee said:

I saw you mention U Mich in another post... talk about expensive for out of state students.  Holy guacamole!  U Mich is one that my son is interested in but OMG, its hard for me to see that the cost is justified for OOS students; approx. $65k a year. 

There has got to be better options than that. 

However, being in-state it's a relative bargain @ $26,000/yr. So if #2 gets in, I know it's a good investment.

[Deleted]

Aug 22, 2017 23:12:05 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

U of Mich has a good MBA program and gives aid not based on need. Undergrad is taught a lot by TA's so keep that in mind. Your son could and should establish residency after a year, in any state. An apartment, a job, register a car and to vote, you're a resident. I don't know anyone who paid out of state tuition after a year. Private colleges it doesn't matter, in state or out, the tuition is the same. My girlfriend has one at Purdue and one at U of M. She lives in Michigan. Costs more for her son at Michigan than her son at Purdue.

Yes, that's what I was thinking.  You shouldn't have to pay non-resident for 4 years.  From what I can tell MI only requires living there for 6 months.

[Annie7]

Aug 22, 2017 18:49:07 GMT -5 milee said:

Aug 22, 2017 18:46:06 GMT -5 Annie7 said:

I agree with finnime. Try ivies. They have huge endowment. H and I are both Software Engineers making 6 figures each. Still Princeton paid nearly 20K per year in aid for DS1. Princeton is supposed to be the best in giving aid. But don't discount ivies just for the price.

Did DS1 qualify for any need-based aid at all?

Milee,

In other colleges, he did not qualify for need-based aid. In Princeton he did even with our high income (over 200K household). So, it doesn't hurt to apply and see.

[alabamagal]

Aug 23, 2017 8:50:28 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Aug 22, 2017 23:12:05 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

U of Mich has a good MBA program and gives aid not based on need. Undergrad is taught a lot by TA's so keep that in mind. Your son could and should establish residency after a year, in any state. An apartment, a job, register a car and to vote, you're a resident. I don't know anyone who paid out of state tuition after a year. Private colleges it doesn't matter, in state or out, the tuition is the same. My girlfriend has one at Purdue and one at U of M. She lives in Michigan. Costs more for her son at Michigan than her son at Purdue.

Yes, that's what I was thinking.  You shouldn't have to pay non-resident for 4 years.  From what I can tell MI only requires living there for 6 months.

Don't count on a student (under 24) establishing residency in any state for in-state tuition purposes.  It is almost impossible for a student to change residency while going to college, otherwise no one would be paying in state tuition.  Rules are just about the same for all state schools.  Below is what Michigan has on their website


If you are a dependent student, and both your parents are legal residents of another state, you are presumed to be a nonresident.

Residency is always established by where your parents live and work at the time you start college.  There are some rules if your parents move with waiting periods, and also if parents in military.  A student can not just get a part time job, an apartment, driver license, voter registration and declare themselves a resident for in-state tuition.  

It is about the same as trying to get independent status for financial aid, you are tied to your parents until you are 24 - or get married or have a dependent.

If your parents move after you start college, the student can keep the in-state residency established when they start college - this was a big factor for us because youngest had in-state scholarship in GA when we moved to AL he was able to keep it.

[zibazinski]

It's done all the time. I suppose it shouldn't be.

[chen35]

Aug 22, 2017 14:22:21 GMT -5 milee said:

Aug 22, 2017 13:16:27 GMT -5 oped said:

Is free worthwhile if it doesn't lead where he wants/neeeeds it to go? 

Its not an easy decision for sure.

Free isn't helpful at all if it doesn't lead to where he wants to go.  The problem is that it's not very clear cut.  It's not like a school like UF doesn't have a Math program, it's that the Math program doesn't have a strong reputation and they don't have some of the analytical and finance links that some of the other schools offer.  The big question mark is what part the undergrad school plays into getting in to a top notch grad school.  Because the degree from the grad school is really what will open the doors for him professionally.  It's very tough to tell if he could go free to a mediocre undergrad program and still get into one of the top grad schools, after which nobody will even look at where he went undergrad.  Don't know the answer to that - we get differing answers when we ask those questions.  

It's largely a guess, but I suspect the sweet spot for him would be option 3 - go to a specialty type school that doesn't have the name recognition of say an Ivy, but is known for one of the top math/econ/finance programs if he can get enough merit scholarship to keep the cost under $40k a year.  At any of those schools he'd be able to get into a top grad school and his undergrad degree would carry weight within his specialty.  

Based on my limited experience (mine and my brothers), you can get into a top grad program from a mediocre state school if you have the test scores to back up your transcript. I got into the MBA program at University of Michigan, and my brother got into Harvard, NYU and Duke law schools. Neither of our undergrad degrees are from impressive schools. 
Granted that's only two examples in two fields of study, but my guess is that the experience translates to other schools and fields?

[milee]

DS is thinking about attending college in the UK.  It makes financial sense (as long as the exchange rate doesn't reverse and get crazy in the next 3 years) and he could probably get into one of the prestigious colleges there, but...

I dislike how that may mean he'll end up starting his career and possibly even staying in Europe.  Heck, that's sort of how I met DH.  He was over from the UK on a work assignment and just never left.  As a mom, I know that might be best for him but I will miss the little booger.

[milee]

Wow, and talk about another reason young people are broke, overweight and unhealthy... almost every one of the American colleges requires Freshman at least to buy a fairly expensive meal plan.  One of my son's top choices requires a meal plan that costs $6300 for the school year (doesn't include break times like Winter break, Spring break or Saturday evenings.)  The food isn't horrible and if you are careful, you can find healthy choices   but that's an incredibly large amount to force students to spend on food IMO.  

[dee27]

Aug 27, 2017 18:49:54 GMT -5 milee said:

Wow, and talk about another reason young people are broke, overweight and unhealthy... almost every one of the American colleges requires Freshman at least to buy a fairly expensive meal plan.  One of my son's top choices requires a meal plan that costs $6300 for the school year (doesn't include break times like Winter break, Spring break or Saturday evenings.)  The food isn't horrible and if you are careful, you can find healthy choices   but that's an incredibly large amount to force students to spend on food IMO.  

Ouch, $700/month for a college meal plan! When DD was in college and law school, the schools allowed the students to use  money leftover in their accounts to stock up on single packaged items like yogurt, juice, etc. before the end of the semester. The second year of law school, she worked as a summer intern, and those items helped her food budget since she could freeze the juice and yogurt singles in the fridge at her apartment.

[milee]

Aug 27, 2017 19:15:31 GMT -5 dee27 said:

Aug 27, 2017 18:49:54 GMT -5 milee said:

Wow, and talk about another reason young people are broke, overweight and unhealthy... almost every one of the American colleges requires Freshman at least to buy a fairly expensive meal plan.  One of my son's top choices requires a meal plan that costs $6300 for the school year (doesn't include break times like Winter break, Spring break or Saturday evenings.)  The food isn't horrible and if you are careful, you can find healthy choices   but that's an incredibly large amount to force students to spend on food IMO.  

Ouch, $700/month for a college meal plan! When DD was in college and law school, the schools allowed the students to use  money leftover in their accounts to stock up on single packaged items like yogurt, juice, etc. before the end of the semester. The second year of law school, she worked as a summer intern, and those items helped her food budget since she could freeze the juice and yogurt singles in the fridge at her apartment.

At least she could buy yogurts and juice to stock up for the future with her plan.  I may be misunderstanding exactly how the plan I mentioned works, but it appeared to be more of a three meal a day "buffet" or whatever the student wants to eat rather than they get specific $$$ to spend and things are priced per item.  So they're somewhat incentivized to eat up (get your money's worth) and also not allowed to take food to go...  

I wouldn't want my son or any other kid to have the incredibly bare bones food budget I had in college, but I think there's a reasonable middle ground between being hungry and feeding them like hogs they're trying to fatten up while they charge premium prices for the privilege. 

[Deleted]

Our local grocery store accepts the local college food $.

That price seems insane. 

Another reason to do freshman year from home.