hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 25, 2011 14:46:16 GMT -5
#126- or we could pay a living wage (min. wage of 1968 is over $10 in today's money) and do away with all that. It IS dumb.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 25, 2011 14:46:53 GMT -5
They are paying for the benefit of not having a completely uneducated, illiterate population. It is to society's benefit to educate our children.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 25, 2011 14:52:25 GMT -5
#126- or we could pay a living wage (min. wage of 1968 is over $10 in today's money) and do away with all that. It IS dumb. 1968 was the peak. In today's dollars, minimum wage is the highest it has been in over 25 years.
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Mar 25, 2011 14:53:18 GMT -5
In general, private schools pay less in salary and benefits or similar salary and less benefits, but prestigious private schools are a notable exceptions. Most public school teachers wouldn't qualify for the better private schools and wouldn't enjoy the job security they have in public school system. Most teachers I've known who made it to the better private schools [or even the better public schools] have it made ~ few disciplinary problems, involved parents [although some private school parents are neglectful] and the ability to get rid of trouble makers. In general they recognize that they are "set for life." [unless they "screw up"].
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brdsl
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Post by brdsl on Mar 25, 2011 15:03:22 GMT -5
"In general, private schools pay less in salary and benefits or similar salary and less benefits, but prestigious private schools are a notable exceptions."
I would be interested in seeing any evidence of this. I too believed this for a long time, but in reality....found differently.
Of course, getting a private school to release what it actually pays, would be difficult.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 25, 2011 15:08:06 GMT -5
I would be interested in seeing any evidence of this. I too believed this for a long time, but in reality....found differently.
I went to a private high school and this was the case. Teachers in private schools do not mind the lower pay, because they have a student body that is more focused.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 25, 2011 15:09:57 GMT -5
... .. To me, the bigger issue is the sad fact that parents of private school students have to pay the private school AND the government run school they aren't using.No one pays to send their kid to public school. The money they pay does not go up when they have a kid enter the system nor go down when their kid exits the system. We all pay to have a public school system which educates our youthful fellow citizens.
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brdsl
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Post by brdsl on Mar 25, 2011 15:13:05 GMT -5
I went to a private high school and this was the case.
And what years were you in private school?
I am talking this century... ;D
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 25, 2011 15:14:45 GMT -5
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 25, 2011 15:15:45 GMT -5
... .. To me, the bigger issue is the sad fact that parents of private school students have to pay the private school AND the government run school they aren't using.No one pays to send their kid to public school. The money they pay does not go up when they have a kid enter the system nor go down when their kid exits the system. We all pay to have a public school system which educates our youthful fellow citizens. You're making my point- everybody pays for the government run monopoly. There could be 0 kids, and the schools would still get that property tax money. To me, if we have to permit government to fund education at all, we should do it in an environment where the schools are private, the money follows the customer, and there is competition for those dollars.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 25, 2011 15:15:48 GMT -5
And what years were you in private school? I am talking this century...
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Mar 25, 2011 15:34:34 GMT -5
So we're not broke, then? And remember: anecdotal evidence is statistics with a sampling size of one. I don't care when CEOs give themselves a 10% pay raise as long as everyone else got approximately a same percentage raise. Also, where are those silver parachutes for the other employees? So since the Predident of the United States easily handles over ten times that amount, we should be paying him $110 million a year? He may deal with ten times that amount, but the government sure as shit doesn't have a PROFIT of anything. $14Trillion in the hole and counting...
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Mar 25, 2011 15:40:19 GMT -5
They are paying for the benefit of not having a completely uneducated, illiterate population. It is to society's benefit to educate our children. But it is NOT to society's benefit to perpetually raise taxes to fund large salaries, huge benefits, and 'til-death pensions for every teacher...
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Mar 25, 2011 15:44:21 GMT -5
A family of four can earn nearly $28,000 in income that is all tax free, with the Standard Deduction and four exemptions. Sweeet! What a freaking life of luxury that must be- surely they need to be taxed more based on their extravagant lifestyles and excess wealth!
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 25, 2011 15:44:47 GMT -5
They are paying for the benefit of not having a completely uneducated, illiterate population. It is to society's benefit to educate our children. But it is NOT to society's benefit to perpetually raise taxes to fund large salaries, huge benefits, and 'til-death pensions for every teacher... Did I say it was??
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 25, 2011 15:46:10 GMT -5
Or the 47% of households who have no federal income tax liability. Or the 35% of wages made up of government benefits of one form or another. Or the 80% of that 47% of households that not only doesn't pay, but actually gets money out of the system. They are still affected by the outcome of the elections, just like everyone else. They stand to lose just like anyone else. They win in the short term. We lose in the short term. Then we all get to lose in the long term.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 25, 2011 15:47:11 GMT -5
Or the 47% of households who have no federal income tax liability. Or the 35% of wages made up of government benefits of one form or another. Or the 80% of that 47% of households that not only doesn't pay, but actually gets money out of the system. They are still affected by the outcome of the elections, just like everyone else. They stand to lose just like anyone else. They win in the short term. We lose in the short term. Then we all get to lose in the long term.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Mar 25, 2011 16:02:35 GMT -5
The market will decide. Not the government, not the peanut gallery, not the CEO's ego. CEO pay is one of the most democratic decisions on earth. Stakeholders have a say proportionate to their stake. Wish it was the same with the political vote-- no stake, no skin in the game, no vote. What a load of crap(at least for publicly traded companies)- there isn't anything remotely free market about CEO compensation and the stakeholders do not have a say- in fact the say on pay legislation -which is a joke anyway- doesn't do anything at all. The owners get screwed. CEOs today aren't any smarter or worth any more than they were decades ago- and a large chunk of them would have done more for their company by not showing up to work at all. Only in corporate America can one be a colossal failure and still get hired again in the same capacity and do it again. Sure Mulally appears to have earned his millions for turning Ford around- what about the other jackasses that screwed it up in the first place and got paid to go away? Did they earn theirs?
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Mar 25, 2011 16:14:35 GMT -5
>>What a load of crap(at least for publicly traded companies)- there isn't anything remotely free market about CEO compensation and the stakeholders do not have a say- in fact the say on pay legislation -which is a joke anyway- doesn't do anything at all. The owners get screwed.<<
Do you actually own stock? Not 401k, IRA, etc but actual shares of stock in a portfolio? I do and I have been getting notices to start voting my shares...in there are not only voting for each board seat, but also on CEO compensation.
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Post by Mkitty is pro kitty on Mar 25, 2011 16:22:41 GMT -5
That's not what it says in my Constitution. Maybe you and like minded individuals can go to some island and form your own country; I suggest calling it Plutocratia.
I'm pretty sure it's illegal to spy on people voting. Please turn yourself in at your earliest convenience.
But before you do all that, Jpegs and/or links please.
And are you one of those people who think taxes should never be raised and remember when a loaf of bread was a quarter?
So other than that, public employees are grossly underpaid?
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brdsl
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Post by brdsl on Mar 25, 2011 16:57:32 GMT -5
SF,
Thanks for the links. I noticed that only 76% of the schools in the ISACS produced the salary of their employees.
Also in this, I noticed the private schools had .8% of teachers had less than a Bachelors, while over 8% of private school teachers had less than a Bachelors.
I will look further into it, as what I compared was average salaries of each school in my area (private and public)...of the ones whom would provide it.
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brdsl
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Post by brdsl on Mar 25, 2011 16:59:14 GMT -5
"I do and I have been getting notices to start voting my shares...in there are not only voting for each board seat, but also on CEO compensation. "
Yes, and the weight of your vote, in accords to the largest shareholder is?
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Mar 25, 2011 17:13:55 GMT -5
Thanks for serving up the point on a silver platter.
The public schools have no incentive for competence. The money is there whether they educate your child or you decide to pay more to send them elsewhere because the education is inadequate.
Teachers have just as little incentive for the competence of its students since their compensation will largely be tied to tenure and their own education level.
It's not really a good thing to have conflicting and different interests between the students and teachers.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Mar 25, 2011 17:16:28 GMT -5
What is irrelevant conclusion, Alex.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Mar 25, 2011 17:35:02 GMT -5
About as much as a fart weighs.
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Mar 25, 2011 21:31:58 GMT -5
LOL, LOL, and more LULZ.
I really don't know what to say about a comment like this. Sometimes a person says something so ridiculous that it's just better to shake one's head, giggle a little, and walk away.
Without question, this is one of those times.
I would've been less shocked if you had said the moon is made out of green cheese.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 25, 2011 22:20:00 GMT -5
No one pays to send their kid to public school. The money they pay does not go up when they have a kid enter the system nor go down when their kid exits the system. We all pay to have a public school system which educates our youthful fellow citizens. You're making my point- everybody pays for the government run monopoly. There could be 0 kids, and the schools would still get that property tax money. To me, if we have to permit government to fund education at all, we should do it in an environment where the schools are private, the money follows the customer, and there is competition for those dollars. I am not making your point as you demonstrate with the concept of "the money follows the customer". The parent is not the customer. The child is not the customer. We, the public, are the customers of public education.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 25, 2011 23:52:24 GMT -5
Quote:So.... you think 1.6+3.2+2.5 = 7.3K is reasonable pre-agi deductions are plaudible for most people? ... lol... You need to do some serious reading..
I did it while paying down my $100k in student loans and making $40k in a mid-high COLA area. Not sure how much reading I need to do; pretty sure I lived it.
The point is that everyone doesn't need to have the exact same deductions as I did in my example. Even better, if you don't have $2.5k of student loan interest to pay [BTW, mine was in excess of $5k, so I couldn't deduct $2.5k of the interest I paid], THEN INCREASE YOUR 401K CONTRIBUTIONS.
The reason more reading is needed as the math doesn't work. About 40% of people don't have 401Ks available, of those that do not everyone participates or participates fully. Very few people until recently had student loan totals like you did so the interest deduction would be smaller if it existed at all. Lastly, I think only about 60% of employers offer healthcare and the HSAs which would be deductible. Again not all of those who have it use it.
Seriously do you think those people who make $15-$20K a year have $7K+ in pre-AGI deductions? I can tell you as a person who not too long ago made around $40K in a high cost area with no benefits (strictly hourly) I had no pre-AGI deductions.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 26, 2011 0:28:55 GMT -5
Maybe it should. Ever hear of the Free State Project? It's not illegal to listen to idiots as the tell you they voted idiotically. I'll still turn myself in if it'll make you feel better. A loaf of bread is still a quarter. That extra $3 bucks is taxes.
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Mar 26, 2011 4:59:04 GMT -5
Yes, let's get 20,000 people to MOVE to New Hampshire and muck about with the politics there irrespective of the people who actually LIVE there. Otherwise, why ask people to move there? If people who already live there wanted things your way, you could get the local residents to buy into this Free Stater scheme and not have to convince people from out of state to nefariously invade the place.
This reminds me of that scheme 10 or so years ago whereby a bunch of radical Christians tried pulling the same type of "invasion tactic" on natives of South Carolina. They were hoping to get Americans from all over the country to move to South Carolina, take over the local and state politics there, and literally secede from the union and create a Christian theocracy.
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