Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 16:13:10 GMT -5
I wish we had a community college nearby.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on May 23, 2017 16:23:38 GMT -5
I completely regret starting my college career at a CC. I do hope my kids take a few classes there while in HS, though.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on May 23, 2017 17:03:19 GMT -5
How is she so far in debt if she had a good scholarship? My daughter was accepted into the Nursing program at my alma mater ($32k a year) and after scholarships she will wind up owing $5k a year. And we got zippo in grants. I am funding the first year and I am making her cash flow the rest (she is giving me $100 a week to pay for it). So I truly do not understand how your niece wound up with so much debt for a nursing program.
In my opinion, we as parents have created the higher education fiasco. If we all stopped co-signing for parental loans, little Suzy and Billy couldn't wrack up $90k in debt for an education. Supply/demand says the prices would come down. Universities would stop competing based on "wow" factor.
IDK, we thought she had a full tuition scholarship, it is a 4 year school, very good private college. No campus housing. She lived too far to commute, So she had to pay room an board. We are not sure if what we thought was a full tuition scholarship for 4 years, was only the first year, or if she possibly did not maintain a GPA? GPA issues are unlikely as she passed the state Nursing Board test on 1st try. I know she bought a car when she started school, that may have been with Student loan $$, and then she just bought a jeep Cherokee. She lived in our rental unit for a year, they were supposed to pay us 700/month but after a few months she was fighting so bad with the roommate that she moved out. DN stayed and DH only charged her $350/month for 6 months. She did work at a local hospital while she was in school. It sounds like my SIL/BIL are not giving their kids any $$ or co-signing or doing a parental contribution. Room and board can get expensive especially if you aren't living on campus. I lived in the dorms for undergrad, but for grad school I had to live off campus. Now, I was cheap. I lived in a crappy utilities paid apartment in the crappy part of town because I didn't want to take out student loans. But, many of my classmates took out loans so that they could live in nice apartment complexes, and a few of them went out and bought new cars. Many of them borrowed money to travel and do exchange programs. So I think it can be very easy to rack up a lot of student debt if you aren't careful. College is expensive (i just learned my alma mater's tuition has tripled in 20 years), but a lot of students who walk out of college with high five and six figures of debt for a bachelor's often have that level of debt because they wanted to live like their parents even though they didn't have an income.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 23, 2017 17:25:35 GMT -5
If you've ever spent any time in a third world country (at other than a tourist resort) you'll know the answer to this thread's title question. Of course we're a first world country and that's not going to change any time soon, no matter what the IIC (idiots in charge) do.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 23, 2017 17:42:07 GMT -5
IDK, we thought she had a full tuition scholarship, it is a 4 year school, very good private college.  No campus housing. She lived too far to commute, So she had to pay room an board. We are not sure if what we thought was a full tuition scholarship for 4 years, was only the first year, or if she possibly did not maintain a GPA? GPA issues are unlikely as she passed the state Nursing Board test on 1st try. I know she bought a car when she started school, that may have been with Student loan $$, and then she just bought a jeep Cherokee. She lived in our rental unit for a year, they were supposed to pay us 700/month but after a few months she was fighting so bad with the roommate that she moved out. DN stayed and DH only charged her $350/month for 6 months. She did work at a local hospital while she was in school. It sounds like my SIL/BIL are not giving their kids any $$ or co-signing or doing a parental contribution. Room and board can get expensive especially if you aren't living on campus.  I lived in the dorms for undergrad, but for grad school I had to live off campus.  Now, I was cheap.  I lived in a crappy utilities paid apartment in the crappy part of town because I didn't want to take out student loans.  But, many of my classmates took out loans so that they could live in nice apartment complexes, and a few of them went out and bought new cars.  Many of them borrowed money to travel and do exchange programs. So I think it can be very easy to rack up a lot of student debt if you aren't careful.  College is expensive (i just learned my alma mater's tuition has tripled in 20 years), but a lot of students who walk out of college with high five and six figures of debt for a bachelor's often have that level of debt because they wanted to live like their parents even though they didn't have an income. Define "a lot"? Keep in mind that many student loans have origination fees and start clocking interest at dispersal. So to finance 15k for year one, you need to borrow 15.6, and by the time you graduate and start paying back, that is around 19.7k (assuming 4% origination and 6% interest) and around 71k for 4 years. Add a fifth year and you are very close to 6 figures, based only on tuition of 15k - which is fairly decent in state tuition.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on May 23, 2017 18:11:58 GMT -5
Room and board can get expensive especially if you aren't living on campus. I lived in the dorms for undergrad, but for grad school I had to live off campus. Now, I was cheap. I lived in a crappy utilities paid apartment in the crappy part of town because I didn't want to take out student loans. But, many of my classmates took out loans so that they could live in nice apartment complexes, and a few of them went out and bought new cars. Many of them borrowed money to travel and do exchange programs. So I think it can be very easy to rack up a lot of student debt if you aren't careful. College is expensive (i just learned my alma mater's tuition has tripled in 20 years), but a lot of students who walk out of college with high five and six figures of debt for a bachelor's often have that level of debt because they wanted to live like their parents even though they didn't have an income. Define "a lot"? Keep in mind that many student loans have origination fees and start clocking interest at dispersal. So to finance 15k for year one, you need to borrow 15.6, and by the time you graduate and start paying back, that is around 19.7k (assuming 4% origination and 6% interest) and around 71k for 4 years. Add a fifth year and you are very close to 6 figures, based only on tuition of 15k - which is fairly decent in state tuition. My daughter's apartment is about $500/month and it is a hellhole. Its only saving grace is it is close to all her classes. I wish we would have re-signed for the apartment they were in last year, but her brother graduated and it would have cost me at least double this one if she did not get herself a room mate. They were signing leases in October last year for the current school year. The girls she is rooming with this year are not well known to my daughter so hopefully it will work out ok.
My kids Student loans are pure tuition. We have Parent Plus Loans for the Board and we give them $$ for food separately.
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DagnyT
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Post by DagnyT on May 23, 2017 18:45:10 GMT -5
I really feel for all of you who live in states with such high tuition. My daughter just graduated from a university in our state (North Carolina). Tuition was less than $6,000 a year. The flagship state schools (UNC-Chapel Hill and NC State are around $9,000 and that is high to me). She attended community college first and earned her AA. Tuition at the community college was $1,200 per semester. Living expenses at the university were higher than the tuition, but it was all expensive in my opinion, and I see that we are very lucky to have "affordable" tuition.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 23, 2017 18:56:11 GMT -5
Florida does as well. Plus colleges close to home.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on May 23, 2017 19:22:20 GMT -5
Minnesota Paint Lady, my beautician's daughter went 2 years to UW-Waukesha, and will go on to a WI 4 year campus Platteville? for engineering. She is Environmental Engineering I think. She has an internship with the State of WI for the summer. Engineering is tough though we have friends that have kids in Engineering and they pretty much have to maintain an A average or they won't get into the program. Platteville is on his list, but he really needs to stay in MN if at all possible as they have a very good grant program and we would lose out on a crap ton of aid going out of state. U of M is his dream, but his odds are practically nil, they admitted only 1500 of 15,000 applicants last year. Duluth or Mankato are more realistic. How about St. Cloud? Decades ago, I had a couple of engineering students for roommates and knew others. Smart, smart folks. If the students are any indication, engineering was an outstanding program.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on May 23, 2017 21:22:36 GMT -5
Graduating with student loan debt does not mean you are in a 2nd or 3rd world country. There are so many options in this country. Some people make bad decisions. Many students make good decsions, have some debt and pay it off.
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justme
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Post by justme on May 23, 2017 21:24:41 GMT -5
Honestly, I think instead of looking at what school had the best name for the major, they need to look at what school has the best internship opportunity/program. The two bigger names in my state are located in what are essentially college towns - there's no internships really during school. Meanwhile, my less name school has a longstanding relationship with a fortune 100 company for business and engineering. They mine our students (I found out about the program after the company told my school I need to apply to the program) and it's not just a summer thing or making copies. I was doing full fledged work completely around my school schedule and pay was based on your year (it was 16 for seniors 19 for grad). My first employer said that internship was a big reason why I got hired during the shitty recession. (Division my internship was in was on a hiring freeze so they couldn't hire me full time.) From what I heard they work with a lot of the other corps here too...my school has a whole office just for internships next to the employment one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 22:05:37 GMT -5
Platteville is on his list, but he really needs to stay in MN if at all possible as they have a very good grant program and we would lose out on a crap ton of aid going out of state. U of M is his dream, but his odds are practically nil, they admitted only 1500 of 15,000 applicants last year. Duluth or Mankato are more realistic. How about St. Cloud? Decades ago, I had a couple of engineering students for roommates and knew others. Smart, smart folks. If the students are any indication, engineering was an outstanding program. Yes, that's another one. He seems set on Duluth if he can't get in U of M, but if engineering is really that hard of a program to get in he probably should apply all over.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on May 24, 2017 9:21:57 GMT -5
Room and board can get expensive especially if you aren't living on campus. I lived in the dorms for undergrad, but for grad school I had to live off campus. Now, I was cheap. I lived in a crappy utilities paid apartment in the crappy part of town because I didn't want to take out student loans. But, many of my classmates took out loans so that they could live in nice apartment complexes, and a few of them went out and bought new cars. Many of them borrowed money to travel and do exchange programs. So I think it can be very easy to rack up a lot of student debt if you aren't careful. College is expensive (i just learned my alma mater's tuition has tripled in 20 years), but a lot of students who walk out of college with high five and six figures of debt for a bachelor's often have that level of debt because they wanted to live like their parents even though they didn't have an income. Define "a lot"? Keep in mind that many student loans have origination fees and start clocking interest at dispersal. So to finance 15k for year one, you need to borrow 15.6, and by the time you graduate and start paying back, that is around 19.7k (assuming 4% origination and 6% interest) and around 71k for 4 years. Add a fifth year and you are very close to 6 figures, based only on tuition of 15k - which is fairly decent in state tuition. I'd say at least half of my classmates in grad school took out more loans that they absolutely needed. And the loans amounts you are providing are those federal subsidized loans? Subsidized loans? Private loans? Perhaps things have changed since I was last in school, because if I borrowed 15K I borrowed 15k. The amount didn't go up by almost 25% by the end of the school year. But, I know that different loans types are different. I only had federally subsidized and one unsubsidized loan.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on May 24, 2017 9:38:23 GMT -5
The tuition at my kids school is $7680/yr. They estimate room & board at about $7200 but my daughter is on of 3 girls sharing an apartment and they will pay $5760 each for the year. We provide her car and cover the insurance. She is interviewing for a campus job today at the campus coffee shop...she worked at Starbucks and will have good references so I am sure she will be hired.
My kids have very little in subsidized loans...we make too much for them to get subsidized loans, but we don't have enough cash flow to pay cash for their tuition. I think I will give in and re-do my 1.99 home equity loan with 2 years left on it, so I can change it to a HELOC with a 10 year amortization so I can pay the rest of DD's college costs without the higher interest Parent Plus loans.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 24, 2017 9:52:33 GMT -5
I foresee some heartaches coming in regards to student loan debts for two very good friends of mine. They are taking out student loans for online colleges. In reality they make enough income that they should be able to cash flow this but they aren't good with money. Instead they have taken out loans and don't seem to know diddly squat about they work. One of them has put his loan deferment several times. He is already paying $600 a month for the undergraduate degree. He has now put it in deferment again to get his MBA online. I am not sure what his loans will look like once all is said and done.
My other friend seems to have no idea what the terms of her loan actually are. We are taking about people in their mid 40's here, not young adults. What is it going to be like for them when they are in their 50's with a higher possibility of bad health and they are still paying on student loans when they should be saving as much as they can for retirement.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 24, 2017 10:02:01 GMT -5
How the hell do you not know how your student loans work? I was sent so much freaking paperwork that I bought a binder just for my student loan forms. My lender's web page has in big red letters that if you cannot afford your payments please call this 1-800 number. That number follows me thru all the way to confirmation of my payment.
Not only all that but they had a meeting for all upcoming graduates at the end of the year to go over with you your student loans and how they worked. I recieved a folder with how much my final total was.
I was beaten over the head with information because as they told me they want to be paid back and will do anything to help me accomplish that. It's a lot easier than trying to go after my refunds and SS checks later when I default.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 24, 2017 10:10:26 GMT -5
How the hell do you not know how your student loans work? I was sent so much freaking paperwork that I bought a binder just for my student loan forms. My lender's web page has in big red letters that if you cannot afford your payments please call this 1-800 number. That number follows me thru all the way to confirmation of my payment. Not only all that but they had a meeting for all upcoming graduates at the end of the year to go over with you your student loans and how they worked. I recieved a folder with how much my final total was. I was beaten over the head with information because as they told me they want to be paid back and will do anything to help me accomplish that. It's a lot easier than trying to go after my refunds and SS checks later when I default. I have no earthly idea...I do think that these online programs may work a little differently because they are dealing with mainly adults. They pretty much emailed her the documents, she signed it and returned it. I personally have zero experience with student loans. All I know is I started asking her specific questions and she couldn't seem to answer much. She "couldn't remember" details, only that they assured it was a "good loan."
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on May 24, 2017 10:15:49 GMT -5
My sons loan offers a 10 year repayment period with a payment of $105/mo without the graduated payment options. I shudder to think how much someone with a $600/mo payment actually borrowed.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 24, 2017 10:17:55 GMT -5
I signed the documents sent to me by Simpson but after that the lender took over. Does she know who holds her loans? She should have recieved paperwork explaining who is holding the loan, how much she owes plus interest rates and what the expected timeline for paying it back is.
If she didn't get anything after she signed the dotted line and she didn't bother to follow up with the school then she's an idiot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 10:20:10 GMT -5
How the hell do you not know how your student loans work? I was sent so much freaking paperwork that I bought a binder just for my student loan forms. My lender's web page has in big red letters that if you cannot afford your payments please call this 1-800 number. That number follows me thru all the way to confirmation of my payment. Not only all that but they had a meeting for all upcoming graduates at the end of the year to go over with you your student loans and how they worked. I recieved a folder with how much my final total was. I was beaten over the head with information because as they told me they want to be paid back and will do anything to help me accomplish that. It's a lot easier than trying to go after my refunds and SS checks later when I default. Easy. You throw all that shit out. My ex never opened mail like that. Anything legal or loan related or whatever just got thrown in a pile. He just asked me a few months ago for a copy of the divorce decree "because I'm good about keeping important stuff like that". To be fair, he still has piles of Christmas cards he's never opened too.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 24, 2017 10:31:15 GMT -5
I signed the documents sent to me by Simpson but after that the lender took over. Does she know who holds her loans? She should have recieved paperwork explaining who is holding the loan, how much she owes plus interest rates and what the expected timeline for paying it back is. If she didn't get anything after she signed the dotted line and she didn't bother to follow up with the school then she's an idiot. Well, when it comes to money she kinda is...I don't know all the ins and outs of what she has or has not done. All I know is I mentioned that I was concerned for her because our mutual friend got his degree from the same online school and he is paying $600 a month in student loans. She about freaked and I started asking her questions about the terms of the loan and she couldn't remember anything. I was astonished by this and she got a bit defensive so I dropped it, and haven't brought it back up again. I feel like she is going to have a rude awakening in a couple of years but she is a grown ass adult so it isn't my responsibility. I was attempting to look out for her but I think I was making her feel stupid and she got defensive. I would never intentionally make someone feel stupid, and she is my friend, but I can't wrap my head around stuff like this... ETA: We are also taking about a person who, when in her 20's, shoved all her unopened bills into a box under the bed and let them sit there for months because she didn't want to deal with them. Apparently, if you never look at something it doesn't exit. She has gotten a lot better since those days. She pays her bills on time now, etc. but she still doesn't have much in the way of money management skills. She also doesn't worry about money in terms of the future. This is why her student loan stuff was so easy for her. In her mind, she doesn't have to start paying this for another 3 years so she doesn't bother to worry about it now.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on May 24, 2017 10:35:42 GMT -5
How the hell do you not know how your student loans work? I was sent so much freaking paperwork that I bought a binder just for my student loan forms. My lender's web page has in big red letters that if you cannot afford your payments please call this 1-800 number. That number follows me thru all the way to confirmation of my payment. Not only all that but they had a meeting for all upcoming graduates at the end of the year to go over with you your student loans and how they worked. I recieved a folder with how much my final total was. I was beaten over the head with information because as they told me they want to be paid back and will do anything to help me accomplish that. It's a lot easier than trying to go after my refunds and SS checks later when I default. Easy. You throw all that shit out. My ex never opened mail like that. Anything legal or loan related or whatever just got thrown in a pile. He just asked me a few months ago for a copy of the divorce decree "because I'm good about keeping important stuff like that". To be fair, he still has piles of Christmas cards he's never opened too. You should check them for money/gift cards
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 24, 2017 10:42:29 GMT -5
I had a friend who was looking to go to art school and I said 'Oh so you're going to go to IWCC? They have a great art program". No she was looking at a private school and had taken a tour where they bragged about how 95% of their graduates were employed. That raised a red flag with me and I asked her if he specified employed as WHAT? That 95% of employed graduates is likely including people that work as Starbucks. Did he say how many are employed as artists? Well no. Then I asked how much it would cost for her to attend. It added up to six figures in debt by the time she would graduate. She got a little testy because I wasn't being supportive. I told her I have nothing against her wanting to be an artist that wasn't what I was concerned about. I was concerned she was going to get hosed and wanted to stress that she needed to investigate this place. When something sounds too good to be true it often is.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on May 24, 2017 11:16:37 GMT -5
I signed the documents sent to me by Simpson but after that the lender took over. Does she know who holds her loans? She should have recieved paperwork explaining who is holding the loan, how much she owes plus interest rates and what the expected timeline for paying it back is. If she didn't get anything after she signed the dotted line and she didn't bother to follow up with the school then she's an idiot.I see you've met my husband. He brought up another freaking student loan to me that "we" forgot about that finally tracked him down. His contribution to figuring it out was to put it on the fridge for me. I'm afraid I might hurt him tonight when I get home and am tempted to tell him to find someone...anyone that he needs to catch up with to get him out of the house and let me cool down.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on May 24, 2017 11:30:41 GMT -5
I signed the documents sent to me by Simpson but after that the lender took over. Does she know who holds her loans? She should have recieved paperwork explaining who is holding the loan, how much she owes plus interest rates and what the expected timeline for paying it back is. If she didn't get anything after she signed the dotted line and she didn't bother to follow up with the school then she's an idiot. Well, when it comes to money she kinda is...I don't know all the ins and outs of what she has or has not done. All I know is I mentioned that I was concerned for her because our mutual friend got his degree from the same online school and he is paying $600 a month in student loans. She about freaked and I started asking her questions about the terms of the loan and she couldn't remember anything. I was astonished by this and she got a bit defensive so I dropped it, and haven't brought it back up again. I feel like she is going to have a rude awakening in a couple of years but she is a grown ass adult so it isn't my responsibility. I was attempting to look out for her but I think I was making her feel stupid and she got defensive. I would never intentionally make someone feel stupid, and she is my friend, but I can't wrap my head around stuff like this... ETA: We are also taking about a person who, when in her 20's, shoved all her unopened bills into a box under the bed and let them sit there for months because she didn't want to deal with them. Apparently, if you never look at something it doesn't exit. She has gotten a lot better since those days. She pays her bills on time now, etc. but she still doesn't have much in the way of money management skills. She also doesn't worry about money in terms of the future. This is why her student loan stuff was so easy for her. In her mind, she doesn't have to start paying this for another 3 years so she doesn't bother to worry about it now. And this person is getting n MBA?đ±
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 24, 2017 11:45:00 GMT -5
Well, when it comes to money she kinda is...I don't know all the ins and outs of what she has or has not done. All I know is I mentioned that I was concerned for her because our mutual friend got his degree from the same online school and he is paying $600 a month in student loans. She about freaked and I started asking her questions about the terms of the loan and she couldn't remember anything. I was astonished by this and she got a bit defensive so I dropped it, and haven't brought it back up again. I feel like she is going to have a rude awakening in a couple of years but she is a grown ass adult so it isn't my responsibility. I was attempting to look out for her but I think I was making her feel stupid and she got defensive. I would never intentionally make someone feel stupid, and she is my friend, but I can't wrap my head around stuff like this... ETA: We are also taking about a person who, when in her 20's, shoved all her unopened bills into a box under the bed and let them sit there for months because she didn't want to deal with them. Apparently, if you never look at something it doesn't exit. She has gotten a lot better since those days. She pays her bills on time now, etc. but she still doesn't have much in the way of money management skills. She also doesn't worry about money in terms of the future. This is why her student loan stuff was so easy for her. In her mind, she doesn't have to start paying this for another 3 years so she doesn't bother to worry about it now. And this person is getting n MBA?đ± No, she is just getting undergrad degree. Our mutual friend who is paying $600 a month in student loans is getting an MBA . Remember this is an online school...the course work she has shown or described to me has pretty much been a joke.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 24, 2017 12:38:48 GMT -5
Define "a lot"? Keep in mind that many student loans have origination fees and start clocking interest at dispersal. So to finance 15k for year one, you need to borrow 15.6, and by the time you graduate and start paying back, that is around 19.7k (assuming 4% origination and 6% interest) and around 71k for 4 years. Add a fifth year and you are very close to 6 figures, based only on tuition of 15k - which is fairly decent in state tuition. I'd say at least half of my classmates in grad school took out more loans that they absolutely needed. And the loans amounts you are providing are those federal subsidized loans?  Subsidized loans?  Private loans?  Perhaps things have changed since I was last in school, because if I borrowed 15K I borrowed 15k.  The amount didn't go up by almost 25% by the end of the school year.  But, I know that different loans types are different.  I only had federally subsidized and one unsubsidized loan. I'm going off my recent loans, not subsidized, not private. I have some for me, some for DD as parent plus. For DDs loans, she did not get all subsidized loans, I think she got part subsidized, part accruing interest right away. Not sure of originations for these-Stanford but they only cover 30-50% of tuition depending on year, not including books or any room and board, etc. ETA it going up 15 to 19k not by end of year, that is loans from freshman year, with capitalized interest by the start of repayment....would be less for other years
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bean29
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 22:26:57 GMT -5
Posts: 10,213
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Post by bean29 on May 24, 2017 13:45:20 GMT -5
Well, this thread prompted me to inquire at the credit union what I have to do to change from a fixed rate home equity loan to a HELOC. They will leave the first one in place and give me a second HELOC, so I get to keep my under 2% Home Equity Loan and then add a HELOC with a 10 year draw interest only and 1.99% interest rate for the first year. I pay off the first one in November 2018 (this one was the basement build out), then I will start paying down the 2nd one which we only need for tuition.
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NastyWoman
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 20:50:37 GMT -5
Posts: 14,893
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Post by NastyWoman on May 24, 2017 14:26:44 GMT -5
If you've ever spent any time in a third world country (at other than a tourist resort) you'll know the answer to this thread's title question. Of course we're a first world country and that's not going to change any time soon, no matter what the IIC (idiots in charge) do. Yes to all of the highlighted parts above. I lived several years in a third world country and the US is a first world country. Nor do I expect this to change soon. However, we may well be on our way setting up a hard to change system that will ultimately lead us down the path to third world country status. If we concentrate all the power where the money is without sufficient protections for those who are not (extremely) wealthy, we may well end up there.
The saying goes "Rome wasn't build in one day" but to complete it, it really should read "nor did the Roman empire fall in one day". The changes we implement do require long term thinking/planning for the greater good and I don't see any of that happening.
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Rukh O'Rorke
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 4, 2016 13:31:15 GMT -5
Posts: 10,292
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 24, 2017 17:19:24 GMT -5
If you've ever spent any time in a third world country (at other than a tourist resort) you'll know the answer to this thread's title question. Of course we're a first world country and that's not going to change any time soon, no matter what the IIC (idiots in charge) do. Yes to all of the highlighted parts above. I lived several years in a third world country and the US is a first world country. Nor do I expect this to change soon. However, we may well be on our way setting up a hard to change system that will ultomately lead us down the path to third world country status. If we concentrate all the power where the money is without sufficient protections for those who are not (extremely) wealthy, we may well end up there.
The saying goes "Rome wasn't build in one day" but to complete it, it really should read "nor did the Roman empire fall in one day". The changes we implement do require long term thinking/planning for the greater good and I don't see any of that happening.
Excellent point. We are going in the wrong direction in many respects.
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