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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 11:17:11 GMT -5
I have an 85 lbs GSD who is about the sweetest dog imaginable but also has the tools to do some real damage. I look at it as a giant responsibility when adopting a dog like that that you must train them right and not put them in a situation where something could happen. By that I mean I don't leave them alone around small children and make 100% sure he doesn't get out without a leash.
The only time he had an incident is where my rambunctious little shit nephew decided to take a running start and jump on my back when I was kneeling, my GSD calm as Iceman in Top Gun walked over, grabbed his leg, and pulled him off me. It did leave slight teeth marks in his leg. That was when I knew for sure he had my back and I developed a real trust.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 11, 2017 11:29:07 GMT -5
That's fair and I actually didn't mean all big dogs...just the ones that have been proven to kill at much higher rates than other dogs. Why? Any big dog could very easily kill a baby. Any adult human could easily kill a baby. That doesn't mean I don't make distinctions between which adult humans are more likely to kill the baby than others.
There's a world of difference between "COULD" (is capable of) and how likely one is to do something.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 11:39:29 GMT -5
Why? Any big dog could very easily kill a baby. Any adult human could easily kill a baby. That doesn't mean I don't make distinctions between which adult humans are more likely to kill the baby than others.
There's a world of difference between "COULD" (is capable of) and how likely one is to do something.
Soooooo....are you saying certain races of humans are more likely to kill and should be kept away from your baby?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 11, 2017 11:44:45 GMT -5
Any adult human could easily kill a baby. That doesn't mean I don't make distinctions between which adult humans are more likely to kill the baby than others.
There's a world of difference between "COULD" (is capable of) and how likely one is to do something.
Soooooo....are you saying certain races of humans are more likely to kill and should be kept away from your baby? I wouldn't hand my baby over to a group of Amazonian cannibals. Humans can be divided into more groups than race...I wouldn't personally consider dog breeds to be equitable to human race.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 11, 2017 11:48:49 GMT -5
Why? Any big dog could very easily kill a baby. Any adult human could easily kill a baby. That doesn't mean I don't make distinctions between which adult humans are more likely to kill the baby than others.
There's a world of difference between "COULD" (is capable of) and how likely one is to do something.
You said what I was thinking much better than I did.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 11, 2017 11:52:24 GMT -5
I have an 85 lbs GSD who is about the sweetest dog imaginable but also has the tools to do some real damage. I look at it as a giant responsibility when adopting a dog like that that you must train them right and not put them in a situation where something could happen. By that I mean I don't leave them alone around small children and make 100% sure he doesn't get out without a leash. The only time he had an incident is where my rambunctious little shit nephew decided to take a running start and jump on my back when I was kneeling, my GSD calm as Iceman in Top Gun walked over, grabbed his leg, and pulled him off me. It did leave slight teeth marks in his leg. That was when I knew for sure he had my back and I developed a real trust. Yes, he had your back but at what risk to other people? When I was a kid we had a Great Dane. He was very good with me and my parents adored him. Everything was great until one day it wasn't. He was very protective of me but no one realized how protective. My grandma came to visit and apparently moved in to quick to pick me up. My parents were right there and watched in horror as the dog lunged at my grandma and bit her on the ass! My dad yelled and the dog let go but my grandma had to go to the ER and get stitches. My parents got rid of the dog because he couldn't be trusted after that. And I was only three and have no memories of this. But I do wonder if that is where my fear of large dogs come from. The fact that they can do such damage
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 11:56:34 GMT -5
I have an 85 lbs GSD who is about the sweetest dog imaginable but also has the tools to do some real damage. I look at it as a giant responsibility when adopting a dog like that that you must train them right and not put them in a situation where something could happen. By that I mean I don't leave them alone around small children and make 100% sure he doesn't get out without a leash. The only time he had an incident is where my rambunctious little shit nephew decided to take a running start and jump on my back when I was kneeling, my GSD calm as Iceman in Top Gun walked over, grabbed his leg, and pulled him off me. It did leave slight teeth marks in his leg. That was when I knew for sure he had my back and I developed a real trust. Yes, he had your back but at what risk to other people? When I was a kid we had a Great Dane. He was very good with me and my parents adored him. Everything was great until one day it wasn't. He was very protective of me but no one realized how protective. My grandma came to visit and apparently moved in to quick to pick me up. My parents were right there and watched in horror as the dog lunged at my grandma and bit her on the ass! My dad yelled and the dog let go but my grandma had to go to the ER and get stitches. My parents got rid of the dog because he couldn't be trusted after that. And I was only three and have no memories of this. But I do wonder if that is where my fear of large dogs come from. The fact that they can do such damage None, because he was trained right and I was there. When I say I won't leave him around small children alone it is because I don't trust the small child. If there is an incident my dog gets put down, not the kid.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 11, 2017 12:08:13 GMT -5
Yes, he had your back but at what risk to other people? When I was a kid we had a Great Dane. He was very good with me and my parents adored him. Everything was great until one day it wasn't. He was very protective of me but no one realized how protective. My grandma came to visit and apparently moved in to quick to pick me up. My parents were right there and watched in horror as the dog lunged at my grandma and bit her on the ass! My dad yelled and the dog let go but my grandma had to go to the ER and get stitches. My parents got rid of the dog because he couldn't be trusted after that. And I was only three and have no memories of this. But I do wonder if that is where my fear of large dogs come from. The fact that they can do such damage What if it wasn't your grandma but a n'er-do-well that moved in quickly to grab you. Did the dog 'know' grandma? I would put this down to bad choices by the owners. Dogs don't reason like humans do. They don't pick up on the nuances of relationships and that dog saw a stranger lunging at it's charge. It likely wasn't given a chance to assess the situation. If grandma had reached for you slowly, the dog likely would have looked to your parents for cues on how to react. That's not the individual dog or breeds fault. I don't want a dog that I have to worry about someone moving the wrong way and getting attacked. I have had dogs for over 20 years and never have I had to worry about a guess moving too quickly and getting attacked. i find it crazy that you think that is normal.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 12:32:28 GMT -5
Little dogs are the WORST for being psychotic.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 11, 2017 12:32:44 GMT -5
What if it wasn't your grandma but a n'er-do-well that moved in quickly to grab you. Did the dog 'know' grandma? I would put this down to bad choices by the owners. Dogs don't reason like humans do. They don't pick up on the nuances of relationships and that dog saw a stranger lunging at it's charge. It likely wasn't given a chance to assess the situation. If grandma had reached for you slowly, the dog likely would have looked to your parents for cues on how to react. That's not the individual dog or breeds fault. I don't want a dog that I have to worry about someone moving the wrong way and getting attacked. I have had dogs for over 20 years and never have I had to worry about a guess moving too quickly and getting attacked. i find it crazy that you think that is normal. Little dogs do it, but they get punted out of the way.
The lab my parents had would do the same thing for me, but my parents made sure they gave people fair warning. When they brought me home from the hospital, I was sleeping in the crib and he wouldn't let my grandmother in the room. She's had big dogs and backed off until my mom told the dog to back off.
The dog also wouldn't let Santa in the house.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 12:35:03 GMT -5
Little dogs are the WORST for being psychotic. LOL reminds me of when we were staying the night at the in laws and her moms 5 lbs. bichon Yorkie kept us up all night because he kept trying to hump the 90 lbs lab/hound mix.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 11, 2017 12:39:32 GMT -5
I don't want a dog that I have to worry about someone moving the wrong way and getting attacked. I have had dogs for over 20 years and never have I had to worry about a guess moving too quickly and getting attacked. i find it crazy that you think that is normal. I find it crazy that you don't think your little dog could do the same thing. What makes a little dog immune from biting or attacking someone? Does having less poundage decrease instinct? You may want to read this article. www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160920-why-small-dogs-might-really-be-more-aggressive-than-big-ones Nothing conclusive in the studies, but it does bring up some good points. Most notably it mentions that when small dogs attack it's less likely to be reported, so there isn't great data to study. I would put this down to bad choices by the owners. Dogs don't reason like humans do. They don't pick up on the nuances of relationships and that dog saw a stranger lunging at it's charge. It likely wasn't given a chance to assess the situation. If grandma had reached for you slowly, the dog likely would have looked to your parents for cues on how to react. That's not the individual dog or breeds fault.
I have had dogs for over 20 years and not once did I have to worry about my dog assessing a situation incorrectly. And even if my dog did assess a situation incorrectly and go on the attack, a dog bite from my dog wouldn't have the chance of killing my grandmother. If my dad wasn't around to control the Great Dane my grandma could have been killed. I'm sorry that you can't see the difference between the two scenarios.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 11, 2017 12:42:43 GMT -5
There are always 2 things to consider. How likely is the dog to "attack"? If the dog does attack, how bad is the damage likely to be?
No different than people. How likely is my baby to punch me in the face? VERY likely. How bad will the damage be? minimal.
What people seem to care about is "How likely is it that someone's going to get seriously hurt/killed?" which is really a combination of the 2 questions.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 12:47:50 GMT -5
Individual temperament is more important to me than breed for choosing a dog. When I was a kid my Mom raised German Shepherds in the house (a tiny little 900 sf house), so that's what I've been around for the most part. I do think I'm a pretty good judge of dogs though, and all of mine were had from puppy on and very well socialized.
Babies are always risky though, because they don't really act "human" yet. They squeal and jerk and look like burritos. I'm not cool with leaving dogs and babies alone. My SIL has a couple yippers (a dachsund and I think the other is a bichon) which are their children and they take them everywhere including all our big family gatherings with lots of strange kids. These dogs need to be on Prozac and I find myself following them around all over and watching over babies on the floor. Nobody else seems to care, but even if they couldn't kill they could do some serious damage to a tiny face and those dogs aren't right in the head. I catch them snapping all the time.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on May 11, 2017 13:01:24 GMT -5
Any dog can bite at any time. I absolutely hate the way we raise dogs to be kids our society and expect everything to be hunky dory.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 13:11:26 GMT -5
Any dog can bite at any time. I absolutely hate the way we raise dogs to be kids our society and expect everything to be hunky dory. Pretty sure mine can't right now, just checked the home security camera and he's laying on the couch and nobody else is in the house. Who said they were raising their dog to be a human child?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 11, 2017 13:15:44 GMT -5
Life comes with risks.
I'm willing to risk having a big dog as a member of the family.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 13:19:13 GMT -5
Pretty sure mine can't right now, just checked the home security camera and he's laying on the couch and nobody else is in the house. Who said they were raising their dog to be a human child? Mine's at daycare right now... so raeoflyte might be on to something. Our backup is a doggie day care, pretty sure it wouldn't pass state inspection for a human child daycare LOL. We are lucky enough to have a neighbor that loves our dog and will watch him anytime.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 11, 2017 15:19:21 GMT -5
I would put this down to bad choices by the owners. Dogs don't reason like humans do. They don't pick up on the nuances of relationships and that dog saw a stranger lunging at it's charge. It likely wasn't given a chance to assess the situation. If grandma had reached for you slowly, the dog likely would have looked to your parents for cues on how to react. That's not the individual dog or breeds fault.
I have had dogs for over 20 years and not once did I have to worry about my dog assessing a situation incorrectly. And even if my dog did assess a situation incorrectly and go on the attack, a dog bite from my dog wouldn't have the chance of killing my grandmother. If my dad wasn't around to control the Great Dane my grandma could have been killed. I'm sorry that you can't see the difference between the two scenarios.
So what you are saying is that you are fundamentally ok with your dog attacking someone because it won't kill them. I mean if that's your comfort level and works for you I'm not going to say anything about it. It sounds like you do carry some fear of big dogs, and we all know that fear isn't always rational, but that doesn't make it less valid. But I will say something when that attitude is applied to other peoples choices in dogs. I also go back to what you said earlier that your dog did snap at you twice because of an injury you didn't know about. Your little dog has the same instincts, abilities, and 'communication tools' that all dogs have regardless of size. No, that's not what I'm saying at all...but thank you for twisting my words. I can't imagine my dog attacking anyone ever. When I say she snapped at me I clearly said she didn't bite me. She snapped to let me know I did something wrong. But there is a huge difference between a dog snapping and a dog biting. And there is a huge difference between a small dog biting and a dog biting that can kill you.
You can say my fear is irrational yet I posted the fatalities by dog bites earlier in this thread...guess what, all big dogs! What is that saying? Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't actually after me.
Big dogs, particular Pit Bulls, Rotts and the few others, are much more likely to kill people than my Pom. You can twist my words as much as you want but you can't change the facts just because you like dogs that have been known to kill people.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 11, 2017 15:21:55 GMT -5
Life comes with risks.
I'm willing to risk having a big dog as a member of the family. To be fair, the type of big dog you had is not own known to be dangerous. My SIL has always had Golden Retrievers. They are quite loving and honestly, the only risk I can see from her dogs is that they don't realize how big they are and can hurt a child by knocking them over. Goldens are a far different dog than a Pit Bull.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 15:24:46 GMT -5
Miss Tequila As a sidebar, you really don't strike me as a person that would own a Pomeranian.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 11, 2017 15:33:56 GMT -5
Yes, little dogs can snap...but I'm more worried about the damage that a dog can do. There are breeds that are just more prone to killing than other breeds. Most of that is due to their size and jaw strength. I don't see dogs like Golden Retrievers or other large but lovable dogs on here.
www.dogsbite.org/pdf/12-year-dog-bite-fatality-chart-dogsbiteorg.pdf
Generally people who own Golden Retrievers don't train them to be killers, unlike some assholes do with Pits, Rottweilers, Dobermans, and German Shepherds.
If you get a big dog, you really need to breed them for temperament and train them well. when I have my two out walking, they are on prong collars b/c it's 170lbs of dog for me to have to stop on a dime if something threatens their space (real or imaginary threats...). when people approach us, they aren't looking sideways at my 100lb golden retriever with her tongue hanging out. they are sizing up the 65lb pit/great Dane mix who's straining at his prong with his tail wagging violently b/c he wants to play. he looks like a pit, so he must be dangerous. another thing - I'm glad I kept reading this thread after some ignorant commentary on the first page. I could feel my blood pressure rising. yes, dogs are animals, and you can't completely wipe out their instincts. but you can, and should, train your dogs to be social creatures. thanks to those of you who have already said the same thing.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 11, 2017 15:35:59 GMT -5
There are always 2 things to consider. How likely is the dog to "attack"? If the dog does attack, how bad is the damage likely to be?
No different than people. How likely is my baby to punch me in the face? VERY likely. How bad will the damage be? minimal.
What people seem to care about is "How likely is it that someone's going to get seriously hurt/killed?" which is really a combination of the 2 questions. To be fair, I do care about my dog attacking anyone. That said, if she did lose her shit and attack anyone it is very unlikely that she would cause any serious damage, let alone death.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 11, 2017 15:38:11 GMT -5
Miss Tequila As a sidebar, you really don't strike me as a person that would own a Pomeranian. hahaha...I love my little fluffball!
I was not allowed to have dogs after my grandma got bit so I didn't grow up with them. My ex LOVED dogs and I was very hesistant. I agreed to get a dog but it had to be one that I could kick off my leg if it attacked me! He always had Poms growing up so we got a Pom. They always look so happy and so far I have had the best two Poms. I do admit that they can be yappy little MOFOs, though.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 11, 2017 15:38:50 GMT -5
And this is why I tell people that my dog is a hound mix. Those that would freak out if they heard her true mix just accept that the markings come from the black and tan coon hound. Those that know better laugh and say yeah let me guess hound and Rott? Yep, we tell them, we think blue tick. It's sad that you have to keep the plausible deniability, especially when it comes to homeowners insurance. My company has my loyalty, because their only question when I informed them we had gotten a dog is "Has it been trained as a guard dog" My response was "She's 8 weeks old... she's hardly been trained in her name". But if we ever have to switch companies, I will tell them what the HS told me... she's a hound mix. my old condo association wanted to institute breed-specific restrictions for their pet rules back when I was on the board. I was the sole dissenting vote when it passed. they were worried about the master insurance policy premiums, more than anything else. yet another reason I'm happy to live in my own home. that said, I too have records that say Little Dog is a lab mix. we think there's some lab in there, we know he's pit and Great Dane. I usually tell people he's a GD mix when I'm asked. it does suck, though. my mom stayed over to pup-sit a few months back, and I told her that if he's in the bay window and growls, he has to get down, immediately. she asked why, he's just talking. I said b/c he looks like a pit, he's not going to be sitting in the front window growling at anyone that wakls by.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 15:41:08 GMT -5
Miss Tequila As a sidebar, you really don't strike me as a person that would own a Pomeranian. hahaha...I love my little fluffball!
I was not allowed to have dogs after my grandma got bit so I didn't grow up with them. My ex LOVED dogs and I was very hesistant. I agreed to get a dog but it had to be one that I could kick off my leg if it attacked me! He always had Poms growing up so we got a Pom. They always look so happy and so far I have had the best two Poms. I do admit that they can be yappy little MOFOs, though.
Your personality screams Pit Bull, so I'm experiencing some cognitive dissonance.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 11, 2017 15:42:06 GMT -5
Generally people who own Golden Retrievers don't train them to be killers, unlike some assholes do with Pits, Rottweilers, Dobermans, and German Shepherds.
If you get a big dog, you really need to breed them for temperament and train them well. when I have my two out walking, they are on prong collars b/c it's 170lbs of dog for me to have to stop on a dime if something threatens their space (real or imaginary threats...). when people approach us, they aren't looking sideways at my 100lb golden retriever with her tongue hanging out. they are sizing up the 65lb pit/great Dane mix who's straining at his prong with his tail wagging violently b/c he wants to play. he looks like a pit, so he must be dangerous. another thing - I'm glad I kept reading this thread after some ignorant commentary on the first page. I could feel my blood pressure rising. yes, dogs are animals, and you can't completely wipe out their instincts. but you can, and should, train your dogs to be social creatures. thanks to those of you who have already said the same thing. Considering I'm the only "dogs that can kill" comments on the first page, I appreciate being told my thoughts are ignorant. Do you disagree that Pit Bulls are much more likely to kill than a Pomeranian? I'm wondering why of my comments you find so ignorant.
Considering you agree that you can't completely wipe out a dogs instinct and the fact that Pit Bulls are very power animals, I'm not sure what I said that you would disagree with.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 11, 2017 15:42:53 GMT -5
hahaha...I love my little fluffball!
I was not allowed to have dogs after my grandma got bit so I didn't grow up with them. My ex LOVED dogs and I was very hesistant. I agreed to get a dog but it had to be one that I could kick off my leg if it attacked me! He always had Poms growing up so we got a Pom. They always look so happy and so far I have had the best two Poms. I do admit that they can be yappy little MOFOs, though.
Your personality screams Pit Bull, so I'm experiencing some cognitive dissonance. Ha! You only know my internet personality where I have zero filter. I'm actually not a jackass in real life
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 11, 2017 15:49:53 GMT -5
when I have my two out walking, they are on prong collars b/c it's 170lbs of dog for me to have to stop on a dime if something threatens their space (real or imaginary threats...). when people approach us, they aren't looking sideways at my 100lb golden retriever with her tongue hanging out. they are sizing up the 65lb pit/great Dane mix who's straining at his prong with his tail wagging violently b/c he wants to play. he looks like a pit, so he must be dangerous. another thing - I'm glad I kept reading this thread after some ignorant commentary on the first page. I could feel my blood pressure rising. yes, dogs are animals, and you can't completely wipe out their instincts. but you can, and should, train your dogs to be social creatures. thanks to those of you who have already said the same thing. Considering I'm the only "dogs that can kill" comments on the first page, I appreciate being told my thoughts are ignorant. Do you disagree that Pit Bulls are much more likely to kill than a Pomeranian? I'm wondering why of my comments you find so ignorant.
Considering you agree that you can't completely wipe out a dogs instinct and the fact that Pit Bulls are very power animals, I'm not sure what I said that you would disagree with.
you and the OP, actually, with the thread title. it isn't a breed thing. it's how you raise the dog. any dog can snap, at any time. a larger dog is more likely to kill with its bite than a smaller dog, that's just physics and logistics. does that mean there shouldn't be larger dogs at all? no, it just means you need to pay attention when those dogs are in unfamiliar surroundings. kind of like with kids, do you just let them run wild? no. why is preferable to blame the breed or size of the dog, instead of the circumstances involved in a dog bite? I'll be happy to ignore your posts on this thread, since others are doing a bang-up job of pointing out the same things I would.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 16:01:28 GMT -5
I can't say as I'd specifically seek a Pit, but I tend to stalk the shelters around here and most dogs are either Pits or hounds, and I DEFINITELY would not want a hound. A few weeks ago I fell in love with Fred. www.petfinder.com/petdetail/37866050He is such a freaking sweetheart. And 45 pounds? He's a little dog to me.
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