For those that say...

[naughtybear]

their dog doesn't have a mean bone in their body, pretty sure the owners said this about this one too.


www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4493728/Baby-girl-mauled-death-Las-Vegas-family-pit-bull.html

[Deleted]

Yeah, some breeds scare me.  The daughter of a friend has a pit bull and she's a veterinarian with 2 small children.  My friend says the dog is really sweet, but I can't help thinking about its powerful jaws.  

And Rule #1 is NEVER leave small children alone with the family pet- even to go to the bathroom.  A tragedy for everyone involved.

[Opti]

People can be stupid. Since she was in the bathroom, she does not know what happened. I tend to think the child in her walker walked into the dog, and the dog retaliated. Its stupid to think dogs are going to forget all their instincts just because its a small child.

[justme]

There's dogs with more powerful bites. One of them is the German Shepard but your don't hear near as much about OMG how could you have that dog around kids. Rottweilers have more force too. Those dogs are also a lot bigger too.

[busymom]

They actually reinstated the leash law in our community.  Apparently there were too many problems with dogs under "voice command".


I feel badly for the whole family.  


Now, I've never owned that breed.  Those powerful jaws bother me, because when they bite, the dog locks them.  A famous story in our community was a young couple who'd owned their pit since it was weaned.  The lady of the house had the dog in her lap, & was petting it (the dog was now a young adult), when the dog suddenly grabbed her lower lip & tore it off.     This couple never saw it coming, as the dog had never been aggressive until that particular incident.  Makes me wonder if that breed startles easily, & naturally responds by biting?  

[Miss Tequila]

May 11, 2017 8:32:14 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Whenever I see stories like this I always wonder what else was going on.   A dog who shows no aggression for 9 years is very unlikely to just snap one day. 

So it could be a couple of things and not breed specific.   Was the dog sick,  did it get startled, was it properly socialized with the baby, something else

It's a tragedy for all involved,  but I refuse to blame a specific breed.   This is a dog issue not a breed issue; for every 1 story you hear of this there are thousands of pitbulls happily living with their families living with small children.  And along those same lines there are thousands of small dog attacks that never make it to the news because fluffy the poodle doesn't have the same reputation as Bruno the pitbull. 

I agree on not blaming a specific breed. But where we disagree is on the small dog attacks. I have a Pomeranian and I am sure under the right circumstances she would attack (I can't see it because she is lazy AF but work with me!) but the difference is that she will break skin and it will hurt but she doesn't have the ability to kill me or my children.  I googled it and there is one reported case where a Pomeranian killed a 6 week old infant....but it wasn't the dogs strength, it was the fact that she bit the carotid artery that killed the infant.  Just throwing that out there before all of the Pit lovers come on and blast me for the ONE crazy pom attack!

[Opti]

Yikes, that's scary Busy.

Here's a couple links I found on dog behavior.

www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/why-dogs-attack-babies-unfamiliarity-smell-sound-and-gaze-can-contribute-20150622-ghuewc.html

www.cesarsway.com/dog-behavior/biting/when-dogs-attack

[Miss Tequila]

May 11, 2017 9:02:08 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

May 11, 2017 8:56:49 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I agree on not blaming a specific breed. But where we disagree is on the small dog attacks. I have a Pomeranian and I am sure under the right circumstances she would attack (I can't see it because she is lazy AF but work with me!) but the difference is that she will break skin and it will hurt but she doesn't have the ability to kill me or my children.  I googled it and there is one reported case where a Pomeranian killed a 6 week old infant....but it wasn't the dogs strength, it was the fact that she bit the carotid artery that killed the infant.  Just throwing that out there before all of the Pit lovers come on and blast me for the ONE crazy pom attack!

I hear what you are saying but don't really agree.   Yes your pom isn't on average going to do as much damage as a pit... but that doesn't make a pom any less likely than a pit to attack.   KWIM.   In other words if you want to vilify a breed (not sure why anyone would want to) do it because they have powerful jaws not because they are more likely to attack.


 

I'm not disagreeing that any dog can attack.  I'm saying that a Pom isn't going to kill you if it attacks you.  My pom has snapped at me a few times in her life (never actually bit me) so I know it can happen.  Twice it was because she was hurting and I didn't know it.  But if she attacked me there would be zero chance she would kill me.  If she attacked my children there would be zero chance she would kill them.  Because I know any dog can attack under the right circumstance I truly don't understand how anyone can take a risk on a dog that can kill them or their children.  I couldn't live with myself if my choice in dog cost my child their life.  And I'm a huge dog lover...it's just that I love my kids more. 

[Opti]

I love dogs but I don't understand why it isn't obvious to some why you never ever leave an infant or toddler alone with a dog. Mom was stupid and unfortunately both her daughter and dog died as a result. It was a preventable tragedy. She could have just locked the dog or child in one room if she really didn't want to take the child into the bathroom with her.

[swamp]

May 11, 2017 9:06:48 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 11, 2017 9:02:08 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

I hear what you are saying but don't really agree.   Yes your pom isn't on average going to do as much damage as a pit... but that doesn't make a pom any less likely than a pit to attack.   KWIM.   In other words if you want to vilify a breed (not sure why anyone would want to) do it because they have powerful jaws not because they are more likely to attack.


 

I'm not disagreeing that any dog can attack.  I'm saying that a Pom isn't going to kill you if it attacks you.  My pom has snapped at me a few times in her life (never actually bit me) so I know it can happen.  Twice it was because she was hurting and I didn't know it.  But if she attacked me there would be zero chance she would kill me.  If she attacked my children there would be zero chance she would kill them.  Because I know any dog can attack under the right circumstance I truly don't understand how anyone can take a risk on a dog that can kill them or their children.  I couldn't live with myself if my choice in dog cost my child their life.  And I'm a huge dog lover...it's just that I love my kids more. 

I've had more problems with little dogs snapping at me than big dogs.

I've only had big dogs. I currently don't have a dog and I miss my big dog desperately. She was 150 lbs of love and slobber.

[Miss Tequila]

May 11, 2017 9:18:51 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 11, 2017 9:06:48 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I'm not disagreeing that any dog can attack.  I'm saying that a Pom isn't going to kill you if it attacks you.  My pom has snapped at me a few times in her life (never actually bit me) so I know it can happen.  Twice it was because she was hurting and I didn't know it.  But if she attacked me there would be zero chance she would kill me.  If she attacked my children there would be zero chance she would kill them.  Because I know any dog can attack under the right circumstance I truly don't understand how anyone can take a risk on a dog that can kill them or their children.  I couldn't live with myself if my choice in dog cost my child their life.  And I'm a huge dog lover...it's just that I love my kids more. 

I've had more problems with little dogs snapping at me than big dogs.

I've only had big dogs. I currently don't have a dog and I miss my big dog desperately. She was 150 lbs of love and slobber.

Yes, little dogs can snap...but I'm more worried about the damage that a dog can do.  There are breeds that are just more prone to killing than other breeds.  Most of that is due to their size and jaw strength.  I don't see dogs like Golden Retrievers or other large but lovable dogs on here. 

www.dogsbite.org/pdf/12-year-dog-bite-fatality-chart-dogsbiteorg.pdf

[Green Eyed Lady]

I have a very large German Shepherd. If he or his is threatened, he will do his best to completely disable you or kill you.  I don't allow him to be in a room with children - especially younger ones.  If they accidently step on his foot or yank his tail, while he is well-trained, you can't train instinct out of him.  He just may turn around and snap without thinking.  His "snap" might well take a child's hand off.

My mom had, until recently, a Shitzu.  That dog could bite nine times and still barely leave a mark.  He was a nasty little thing.  I love dogs, but I didn't love him so much.

Bigger and more powerful dogs cause more damage.  It's not necessarily the breed, but the size and power.  It's a no-brainer.  That's why police dogs aren't Chihuahuas.

[Deleted]

May 11, 2017 9:06:48 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 11, 2017 9:02:08 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

I hear what you are saying but don't really agree.   Yes your pom isn't on average going to do as much damage as a pit... but that doesn't make a pom any less likely than a pit to attack.   KWIM.   In other words if you want to vilify a breed (not sure why anyone would want to) do it because they have powerful jaws not because they are more likely to attack.


 

I'm not disagreeing that any dog can attack.  I'm saying that a Pom isn't going to kill you if it attacks you.  My pom has snapped at me a few times in her life (never actually bit me) so I know it can happen.  Twice it was because she was hurting and I didn't know it.  But if she attacked me there would be zero chance she would kill me.  If she attacked my children there would be zero chance she would kill them.  Because I know any dog can attack under the right circumstance I truly don't understand how anyone can take a risk on a dog that can kill them or their children.  I couldn't live with myself if my choice in dog cost my child their life.  And I'm a huge dog lover...it's just that I love my kids more. 

That's pretty much any large dog though.  The vast majority of which never hurt or kill anyone. 

I really miss having a dog, but the only kind that fits our lifestyle right now is a small ankle biter that can go with us everywhere as we're in the van all the time, but I just can't bring myself to getting one.  I'm just a big dog person.  One that keeps the vermin off our property and is not just coyote bait. 

[swamp]

May 11, 2017 9:24:27 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 11, 2017 9:18:51 GMT -5 swamp said:

I've had more problems with little dogs snapping at me than big dogs.

I've only had big dogs. I currently don't have a dog and I miss my big dog desperately. She was 150 lbs of love and slobber.

Yes, little dogs can snap...but I'm more worried about the damage that a dog can do.  There are breeds that are just more prone to killing than other breeds.  Most of that is due to their size and jaw strength.  I don't see dogs like Golden Retrievers or other large but lovable dogs on here. 

www.dogsbite.org/pdf/12-year-dog-bite-fatality-chart-dogsbiteorg.pdf

Generally people who own Golden Retrievers don't train them to be killers, unlike some assholes do with Pits, Rottweilers, Dobermans, and German Shepherds.

If you get a big dog, you really need to breed them for temperament and train them well.    

[Miss Tequila]

May 11, 2017 9:24:57 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

May 11, 2017 9:06:48 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I'm not disagreeing that any dog can attack.  I'm saying that a Pom isn't going to kill you if it attacks you.  My pom has snapped at me a few times in her life (never actually bit me) so I know it can happen.  Twice it was because she was hurting and I didn't know it.  But if she attacked me there would be zero chance she would kill me.  If she attacked my children there would be zero chance she would kill them.  Because I know any dog can attack under the right circumstance I truly don't understand how anyone can take a risk on a dog that can kill them or their children.  I couldn't live with myself if my choice in dog cost my child their life.  And I'm a huge dog lover...it's just that I love my kids more. 

Obviously not zero chance since there is a known Pom related death that you cited.  

ok....99.999999999% chance that my pom wouldn't kill me or my children.

Are you disagreeing with my statement that a bite from a Pit is MUCH more likely to be fatal than a bite from a Pom?  Because I can only find an instance of one death from a Pom and that was 17 years ago...

[Green Eyed Lady]

May 11, 2017 9:29:52 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

May 11, 2017 9:24:53 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I have a very large German Shepherd. If he or his is threatened, he will do his best to completely disable you or kill you.  I don't allow him to be in a room with children - especially younger ones.  If they accidently step on his foot or yank his tail, while he is well-trained, you can't train instinct out of him.  He just may turn around and snap without thinking.  His "snap" might well take a child's hand off.

My mom had, until recently, a Shitzu.  That dog could bite nine times and still barely leave a mark.  He was a nasty little thing.  I love dogs, but I didn't love him so much.

Bigger and more powerful dogs cause more damage.  It's not necessarily the breed, but the size and power.  It's a no-brainer.  That's why police dogs aren't Chihuahuas.

The biggest problem I found with GSDs and other herding dogs is that they nip small children in their attempts to herd them as they would livestock.   We had the most mild mannered GSD mix,  who we would not leave with small children nor allow her off close control with because she would stress out trying the herd them and then nip to get them to go in the direction she wanted them to go.   

So yes I totally agree that dogs need to be well supervised with children, especially with new babies and other non-family member kids. 

Certainly possible, but I've never let him around children, so I don't know.  But you are right.  He tries to herd me all the time - usually in the direction of where he knows his food is.  He doesn't do it by nipping, tho.  He pushes on me and tries to steer me in the direction he wants to go.

I'm not going to be one of those people who say "my dog would never...." and find out that, tragically, I was wrong.  I couldn't live with that guilt.

[swamp]

May 11, 2017 9:29:52 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

May 11, 2017 9:24:53 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I have a very large German Shepherd. If he or his is threatened, he will do his best to completely disable you or kill you.  I don't allow him to be in a room with children - especially younger ones.  If they accidently step on his foot or yank his tail, while he is well-trained, you can't train instinct out of him.  He just may turn around and snap without thinking.  His "snap" might well take a child's hand off.

My mom had, until recently, a Shitzu.  That dog could bite nine times and still barely leave a mark.  He was a nasty little thing.  I love dogs, but I didn't love him so much.

Bigger and more powerful dogs cause more damage.  It's not necessarily the breed, but the size and power.  It's a no-brainer.  That's why police dogs aren't Chihuahuas.

The biggest problem I found with GSDs and other herding dogs is that they nip small children in their attempts to herd them as they would livestock.   We had the most mild mannered GSD mix,  who we would not leave with small children nor allow her off close control with because she would stress out trying the herd them and then nip to get them to go in the direction she wanted them to go.   

So yes I totally agree that dogs need to be well supervised with children, especially with new babies and other non-family member kids. 

One of my best friends has a GSD.  She likes to nip kids bums.  She especially likes DD's bum because it's nice and chewy. 

[imawino]

 It was not her choice of dog that cost her baby's life - it was her choice to not properly supervise a baby and an animal.

I have/had large dogs.  I would bet everything I have that they wouldn't hurt a child.  But I would still never leave them unattended with a small child.  Like I would never leave a small child unattended with an electrical outlet or a gun, or even with my cat, who could easily severely damage a small child's eye if she felt so inclined (and little ones often give animals a reason to be "so inclined") 

[swamp]

May 11, 2017 9:30:44 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 11, 2017 9:24:57 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Obviously not zero chance since there is a known Pom related death that you cited.  

ok....99.999999999% chance that my pom wouldn't kill me or my children.

Are you disagreeing with my statement that a bite from a Pit is MUCH more likely to be fatal than a bite from a Pom?  Because I can only find an instance of one death from a Pom and that was 17 years ago...

I agree with it.

But I disagree where you don't understand how anyone could take a risk with kids and have a big dog. To me, big dogs are the epitome of love, especially labs. I grew up with a really big black lab (100 lbs) who was very very protective of me.

[Deleted]

May 11, 2017 9:30:44 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 11, 2017 9:24:57 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Obviously not zero chance since there is a known Pom related death that you cited.  

ok....99.999999999% chance that my pom wouldn't kill me or my children.

Are you disagreeing with my statement that a bite from a Pit is MUCH more likely to be fatal than a bite from a Pom?  Because I can only find an instance of one death from a Pom and that was 17 years ago...

But, on the flip side your Pom probably will never save your child from anything either.  Google German Sheperd saves child or Rottweiler saves child, yes, even Pit Bull saves child.

[imawino]

May 11, 2017 9:35:07 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 11, 2017 9:30:44 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

ok....99.999999999% chance that my pom wouldn't kill me or my children.

Are you disagreeing with my statement that a bite from a Pit is MUCH more likely to be fatal than a bite from a Pom?  Because I can only find an instance of one death from a Pom and that was 17 years ago...

I agree with it.

But I disagree where you don't understand how anyone could take a risk with kids and have a big dog. To me, big dogs are the epitome of love, especially labs. I grew up with a really big black lab (100 lbs) who was very very protective of me.

You need to come visit my little guy. 

[swamp]

May 11, 2017 9:37:20 GMT -5 imawino said:

May 11, 2017 9:35:07 GMT -5 swamp said:

I agree with it.

But I disagree where you don't understand how anyone could take a risk with kids and have a big dog. To me, big dogs are the epitome of love, especially labs. I grew up with a really big black lab (100 lbs) who was very very protective of me.

You need to come visit my little guy. 

I do!!!!!

[Miss Tequila]

May 11, 2017 9:35:07 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 11, 2017 9:30:44 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

ok....99.999999999% chance that my pom wouldn't kill me or my children.

Are you disagreeing with my statement that a bite from a Pit is MUCH more likely to be fatal than a bite from a Pom?  Because I can only find an instance of one death from a Pom and that was 17 years ago...

I agree with it.

But I disagree where you don't understand how anyone could take a risk with kids and have a big dog. To me, big dogs are the epitome of love, especially labs. I grew up with a really big black lab (100 lbs) who was very very protective of me.

That's fair and I actually didn't mean all big dogs...just the ones that have been proven to kill at much higher rates than other dogs. 

[Miss Tequila]

May 11, 2017 9:36:34 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

May 11, 2017 9:30:44 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

ok....99.999999999% chance that my pom wouldn't kill me or my children.

Are you disagreeing with my statement that a bite from a Pit is MUCH more likely to be fatal than a bite from a Pom?  Because I can only find an instance of one death from a Pom and that was 17 years ago...

But, on the flip side your Pom probably will never save your child from anything either.  Google German Sheperd saves child or Rottweiler saves child, yes, even Pit Bull saves child.

All I can say is if I'm a parent whose child is one of the unlucky ones that are killed by a Pit Bull, I'm not going to care about the few that alerted their owners to dangers (or even pulled them from a fire or whatever). I'm just not taking a risk with a dog breed that is known for killing.

[swamp]

May 11, 2017 9:55:40 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 11, 2017 9:36:34 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

But, on the flip side your Pom probably will never save your child from anything either.  Google German Sheperd saves child or Rottweiler saves child, yes, even Pit Bull saves child.

All I can say is if I'm a parent whose child is one of the unlucky ones that are killed by a Pit Bull, I'm not going to care about the few that alerted their owners to dangers (or even pulled them from a fire or whatever). I'm just not taking a risk with a dog breed that is known for killing.

My brother has a pit bull. He says it's a lab mix, but I don't believe him. She's very sweet.

[imawino]

May 11, 2017 9:51:04 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 11, 2017 9:35:07 GMT -5 swamp said:

I agree with it.

But I disagree where you don't understand how anyone could take a risk with kids and have a big dog. To me, big dogs are the epitome of love, especially labs. I grew up with a really big black lab (100 lbs) who was very very protective of me.

That's fair and I actually didn't mean all big dogs...just the ones that have been proven to kill at much higher rates than other dogs. 

Why?  Any big dog could very easily kill a baby. 

[Miss Tequila]

May 11, 2017 9:59:46 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 11, 2017 9:55:40 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

All I can say is if I'm a parent whose child is one of the unlucky ones that are killed by a Pit Bull, I'm not going to care about the few that alerted their owners to dangers (or even pulled them from a fire or whatever). I'm just not taking a risk with a dog breed that is known for killing.

My brother has a pit bull. He says it's a lab mix, but I don't believe him. She's very sweet.

We will have to agree to disagree. I know people that have Pits swear they are the sweetest...but they are the number 1 killer so that is enough for me to decide that they are too dangerous for me to ever consider owning.

but I do love dogs...just not ones that want to kill me

[swamp]

May 11, 2017 10:02:49 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 11, 2017 9:59:46 GMT -5 swamp said:

My brother has a pit bull. He says it's a lab mix, but I don't believe him. She's very sweet.

We will have to agree to disagree. I know people that have Pits swear they are the sweetest...but they are the number 1 killer so that is enough for me to decide that they are too dangerous for me to ever consider owning.

but I do love dogs...just not ones that want to kill me

But you have to look at the culture of people who often have pit bulls and how they are bred.

The "Killer dogs" used to be German shepherds, then Dobermans, then rottweilers. Again, it's training and breeding.

[Deleted]

May 11, 2017 9:55:40 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 11, 2017 9:36:34 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

But, on the flip side your Pom probably will never save your child from anything either.  Google German Sheperd saves child or Rottweiler saves child, yes, even Pit Bull saves child.

All I can say is if I'm a parent whose child is one of the unlucky ones that are killed by a Pit Bull, I'm not going to care about the few that alerted their owners to dangers (or even pulled them from a fire or whatever). I'm just not taking a risk with a dog breed that is known for killing.

We just have a different idea of what is risky.  My dog that passed away a couple years ago was a Rottweiler cross and the best damn dog ever.  She was the sweetest most loving thing around, but I'm sure people thought twice about coming onto our property when the saw/heard her.

[steph08]

Nobody expects their dog to do something like this, but it is best to take precautions - not leaving kids alone with dogs, teaching kids to be gentle with your dogs/stay away from strange dogs, etc. <br>