Good old Moonbeam at it again.......

[tallguy]

You read the post before, I presume?  

[Value Buy]

Mar 28, 2017 9:27:34 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Mar 28, 2017 9:05:25 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Okay, one time.
Brown is an idiot. was always an idiot. He is telling the President of the U.S. to not mess with California. California is as close to becoming a Sanctuary state as we have.....other than Oregon. Mess with California, I hope the President does.

Now Florida...... is fast becoming a red state again, due to midwesterners moving here in bigger numbers than the old democrats from NYS. Miami wants to stay a sanctuary city, but even their Mayor is rethinking the potential loss of Federal largesse. Miami is fast becoming a non factor in elections here. Part of it is the Cuban population is turning towards the Republican party.

The votes poured in on Election Night Tuesday: about 575,000 more for Clinton than Donald Trump in Miami-Dade, Broward and Monroe counties. That was more than 100,000 votes better than President Barack Obama, who defeated Mitt Romney by about 472,000 votes in the same media market four years ago.Read more here: www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article113778053.html#storylink=cpy

Florida’s Hispanic voter surge wasn’t enough for Clinton

The northern half of the state is very red, and the gulf coast is soon to follow.
If we counted Canadians, it would be a strong blue state, but fortunately the Canadians who own property here prefer to remain Canadians. Funny thing is none of them fly their country's flag down here, unlike both legal and illegal immigrants from south of the border. They happen to be better "citizens" here, or visitors, if you prefer, than our legal and illegal immigrant population is.....although their avowed preference for Democratic party socialist hit nerves down here.
And if you become a citizen here, you have no state income tax. Many New Jersey, NY state, and NYC refugee millionaires have made the move to escape the oppressive government taxation in their home state and come out of the political closet and turn Republican here 
I admit we may have to start maintaining our own lawns down here soon, but the trade off is a small price to pay for the end results.
It presently is hard to find a state that does not have sanctuary cities these days? Does Tennessee? I could see us moving there, in the Smokie Mountains somewhere. Greenest state in the land of the Free! but that might be fake news from Walt Disney, idk............
Many schools have large illegal immigrant children populations here in Florida draining school resources that do not need to be drained for that purpose. Who does it hurt the most down here? The black children who need more resource tools to succeed in life.
This is also true for the big northern cities struggling under the same issues. I am the first to admit Florida has a struggling black population here. Better education can be the first step to help them.

Memphis, Nashville and Knoxville, while notcdeclared sanctuary cities, have police forces sympathetic to illegal immigrants. So you might not want to winter here.

Kansas and Nebraska don't have any sanctuary cities so you might want to consider wintering there.

You proved my original point. Miami and Dade county used to be strong enough to swing the state vote Democratic, as in the last two election cycles.
No more, the rest of the state growth is bringing in middle class white and black voters who have strayed from the Democratic party, and saying enough is enough, we want change in D.C.

Miami is no longer the top dog.

[Value Buy]

Mar 28, 2017 12:29:44 GMT -5 tallguy said:

You read the post before, I presume?  

Too be fair, I commented on your other post before reading the rest of the thread.
I will go back and "like"it if that makes it all better

[Tennesseer]

Valueby wrote: "Part of it is the Cuban population is turning towards the Republican party."

I replied: "The votes poured in on Election Night Tuesday: about 575,000 more for Clinton than Donald Trump in Miami-Dade, Broward and Monroe counties."

Where is the Cuban population turning towards the Republican party if Clinton received almost 575,000 more votes in that area than Trump? Clinton won almost 100,000 more votes than Obama won.

And from a link within my original link: Hispanics voting in record numbers in Florida, other states, boosting Hillary Clinton

So who exactly are these Cubans who supposed are turning toward the Republican party? It cannot be the anti-Castro Cubans who voted against anyone wanting to restore relations with Cuba as they are dying out. Younger Cubans and other Latinos/Latinas voted for Clinton.

The Hispanic vote was not enough for Clinton to win Florida but don't think for a moment they are signing up as Republicans.  

[Value Buy]

Mar 28, 2017 12:44:49 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Valueby wrote: "Part of it is the Cuban population is turning towards the Republican party."

I replied: "The votes poured in on Election Night Tuesday: about 575,000 more for Clinton than Donald Trump in Miami-Dade, Broward and Monroe counties."

Where is the Cuban population turning towards the Republican party if Clinton received almost 575,000 more votes in that area than Trump? Clinton won almost 100,000 more votes than Obama won.

And from a link within my original link: Hispanics voting in record numbers in Florida, other states, boosting Hillary Clinton

So who exactly are these Cubans who supposed are turning toward the Republican party? It cannot be the anti-Castro Cubans who voted against anyone wanting to restore relations with Cuba as they are dying out. Younger Cubans and other Latinos/Latinas voted for Clinton.

The Hispanic vote was not enough for Clinton to win Florida but don't think for a moment they are signing up as Republicans.  

I guess they did not vote for Marco Rubio either

[djAdvocate]

Mar 28, 2017 11:44:46 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Mar 28, 2017 10:41:21 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

1) Brown is a Yale grad.  he is no dummy.
2) California is telling the president not to mess with us.  Brown is merely reflecting our will.
3) The term "sanctuary" is widely misunderstood.  i have yet to see it used correctly, here.
4) i don't give a shit what the president does.  we are going to chart our own course.

if you don't want to visit here, that's fine, but Tenn has a good point.  if your issue is "sanctuary cities", and you are going to boycott states that have them, then why not boycott Florida?

1) So is Pres. Bush.

Methinks your conclusion doesn't quite follow your premise.

Bush has a 135 IQ.  he is no dummy, either.

did that help?

[djAdvocate]

Mar 28, 2017 11:58:06 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Mar 28, 2017 11:53:32 GMT -5 tallguy said:

To be fair, Bush struggled through prep school and Yale, and was subsequently denied admittance to law school in Texas.  Brown went to Yale Law after getting an undergraduate degree elsewhere.

Countless brilliant minds have graduated from Yale.

However, "He attended Yale, therefore he's intelligent." isn't an argument. Even if it were, "He's intelligent, therefore he makes good policy decisions." isn't an argument. Even if that were, "He makes good policy decisions, therefore permitting sanctuary cities in California is a good idea." isn't an argument.

Hence we've got a bit of work to do here.

and ZERO idiots.  ZERO.  NONE.  NADA.  NIL. 

clear enough?

if not, then it is YOU who have the work to do, not me, friendo.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 28, 2017 12:01:23 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Mar 28, 2017 11:58:06 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Countless brilliant minds have graduated from Yale.

However, "He attended Yale, therefore he's intelligent." isn't an argument. Even if it were, "He's intelligent, therefore he makes good policy decisions." isn't an argument. Even if that were, "He makes good policy decisions, therefore permitting sanctuary cities in California is a good idea." isn't an argument.

Hence we've got a bit of work to do here.

Absolutely.  I'm not defending Brown here.  I even recall one newspaper column from maybe 40 years ago where the writer described Brown as, "the only candidate running who is more confused than the voters."   Somehow that line still stands out.    

he's not confused, imo.  he is, however, CONFUSING. 

i understand from personal experience how frequently people conflate the two.

[tallguy]

Now, maybe.  What was he forty years ago?     

[djAdvocate]

Mar 28, 2017 14:51:25 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Now, maybe.  What was he forty years ago?     

ambitious. 

[Virgil Showlion]

Mar 28, 2017 14:45:57 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 28, 2017 11:58:06 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Countless brilliant minds have graduated from Yale.

However, "He attended Yale, therefore he's intelligent." isn't an argument. Even if it were, "He's intelligent, therefore he makes good policy decisions." isn't an argument. Even if that were, "He makes good policy decisions, therefore permitting sanctuary cities in California is a good idea." isn't an argument.

Hence we've got a bit of work to do here.

and ZERO idiots.  ZERO.  NONE.  NADA.  NIL. 

clear enough?

if not, then it is YOU who have the work to do, not me, friendo.

"Idiot" is subjective.

I personally know two Yale graduates I'd characterize as "unenlightened and with below-average intelligence". I will grant you that a friend of mine who graduated from Yale Law is exceptionally bright and ambitious.

[Virgil Showlion]

Mar 28, 2017 14:44:39 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 28, 2017 11:44:46 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

1) So is Pres. Bush.

Methinks your conclusion doesn't quite follow your premise.

Bush has a 135 IQ.  he is no dummy, either.

did that help?

A source would be nice.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 28, 2017 15:10:54 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Mar 28, 2017 14:45:57 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

and ZERO idiots.  ZERO.  NONE.  NADA.  NIL. 

clear enough?

if not, then it is YOU who have the work to do, not me, friendo.

"Idiot" is subjective.

I personally know two Yale graduates I'd characterize as "unenlightened and with below-average intelligence". I will grant you that a friend of mine who graduated from Yale Law is exceptionally bright and ambitious.

i believe idiot is a clinical term that refers to someone with an IQ less than 30.

as to your other question, you are missing the point if you are chasing this down.  it is all based on estimates, and the range is 119-139.  what it actually is isn't material.  it is over 30.

[Tennesseer]

Mar 28, 2017 13:42:20 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Mar 28, 2017 12:44:49 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Valueby wrote: "Part of it is the Cuban population is turning towards the Republican party."

I replied: "The votes poured in on Election Night Tuesday: about 575,000 more for Clinton than Donald Trump in Miami-Dade, Broward and Monroe counties."

Where is the Cuban population turning towards the Republican party if Clinton received almost 575,000 more votes in that area than Trump? Clinton won almost 100,000 more votes than Obama won.

And from a link within my original link: Hispanics voting in record numbers in Florida, other states, boosting Hillary Clinton

So who exactly are these Cubans who supposed are turning toward the Republican party? It cannot be the anti-Castro Cubans who voted against anyone wanting to restore relations with Cuba as they are dying out. Younger Cubans and other Latinos/Latinas voted for Clinton.

The Hispanic vote was not enough for Clinton to win Florida but don't think for a moment they are signing up as Republicans.  

I guess they did not vote for Marco Rubio either

Rubio lost in southern Florida where the majority of Hispanics in Florida live. Check out the map and voter count.

Florida U.S. Senate Results: Marco Rubio Wins

[Value Buy]

Florida U.S. Senate Results: Marco Rubio Wins

  
Like I said, Florida is no longer a problem for the Republicans losing the vote to the Democrats. It is a red state again.
Proof is in the vote totals for the state.
And if you think only those small areas have heavy concentrations of Hispanics, that is not true. 

What I have noticed is Florida has a very high concentration of career retired military families, including blacks and they are sympathetic to the Republican platform.
Florida is growing fast with both white and Hispanic families.
The difference is the white families are citizens who vote.......Hispanic families are non citizens even if they are legal, so it takes a few years for the legal ones to become citizens.

[Virgil Showlion]

Mar 28, 2017 15:52:06 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 28, 2017 15:10:54 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

"Idiot" is subjective.

I personally know two Yale graduates I'd characterize as "unenlightened and with below-average intelligence". I will grant you that a friend of mine who graduated from Yale Law is exceptionally bright and ambitious.

i believe idiot is a clinical term that refers to someone with an IQ less than 30.

as to your other question, you are missing the point if you are chasing this down.  it is all based on estimates, and the range is 119-139.  what it actually is isn't material.  it is over 30.

Idiot was a clinical term referring to an individual whose mental age was less than a third of their physical age. The definition has been defunct for nearly a century, and was never widely accepted.

Today it means the same thing as "dummy", which is the term you originally used.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 28, 2017 18:38:13 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Mar 28, 2017 15:52:06 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i believe idiot is a clinical term that refers to someone with an IQ less than 30.

as to your other question, you are missing the point if you are chasing this down.  it is all based on estimates, and the range is 119-139.  what it actually is isn't material.  it is over 30.

Idiot was a clinical term referring to an individual whose mental age was less than a third of their physical age. The definition has been defunct for nearly a century, and was never widely accepted.

Today it means the same thing as "dummy", which is the term you originally used.

are we done?  it feels like we are done.

[Deleted]

Mar 28, 2017 14:45:57 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 28, 2017 11:58:06 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Countless brilliant minds have graduated from Yale.

However, "He attended Yale, therefore he's intelligent." isn't an argument. Even if it were, "He's intelligent, therefore he makes good policy decisions." isn't an argument. Even if that were, "He makes good policy decisions, therefore permitting sanctuary cities in California is a good idea." isn't an argument.

Hence we've got a bit of work to do here.

and ZERO idiots.  ZERO.  NONE.  NADA.  NIL. 

clear enough?

if not, then it is YOU who have the work to do, not me, friendo.

Maybe... maybe not (it's entirely possible that we never hear from the idiots that have graduated).

But what about the idiots that are there currently: Nation in shock as Yale students enthusiastically sign petition to completely eliminate the First Amendment

[Virgil Showlion]

Mar 28, 2017 20:24:26 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Mar 28, 2017 14:45:57 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

and ZERO idiots.  ZERO.  NONE.  NADA.  NIL. 

clear enough?

if not, then it is YOU who have the work to do, not me, friendo.

Maybe... maybe not (it's entirely possible that we never hear from the idiots that have graduated).

But what about the idiots that are there currently: Nation in shock as Yale students enthusiastically sign petition to completely eliminate the First Amendment

They're technically dummies, not idiots.

That's the compromise we reached.

[Deleted]

I was using the generalized/social version of the term. 

[djAdvocate]

Virgil, i think you expected me to say that Bush was an idiot.

that having failed you, you took up a new tactic.

you never fucking give up. 

but i do.

ta ta.

[Virgil Showlion]

Mar 28, 2017 20:48:36 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Virgil, i think you expected me to say that Bush was an idiot.

that having failed you, you took up a new tactic.

you never fucking give up. 

but i do.

ta ta.

You've consistently said that you don't believe Pres. Bush is an idiot.

Years ago you stated it would be hard for you to hate him as much as you do if you believed he was. More recently, you suggested he was neither malicious nor stupid, only lazy.

As for what I expected you to say, I was hoping for "Indeed I realize that even Yale graduates aren't immune to stupidity."  You chose to quibble over the definition of 'idiot'. You reap what you sow.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 28, 2017 21:33:32 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Mar 28, 2017 20:48:36 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Virgil, i think you expected me to say that Bush was an idiot.

that having failed you, you took up a new tactic.

you never fucking give up. 

but i do.

ta ta.

You've consistently said that you don't believe Pres. Bush is an idiot.

Years ago you stated it would be hard for you to hate him as much as you do if you believed he was. More recently, you suggested he was neither malicious nor stupid, only lazy.

As for what I expected you to say, I was hoping for "Indeed I realize that even Yale graduates aren't immune to stupidity."  You chose to quibble over the definition of 'idiot'. You reap what you sow.

that is not the same thing at all.  i never said that Bush or anyone else was INCAPABLE of stupidity.  i said that they were not idiots.

i have no interest in getting into a semantics debate with you, either, so please stop making this one.  i didn't sow a damn thing.  i was just making a narrow point that i don't think Brown or Bush are stupid.  what i find bothersome about this argument is that YOU KNEW THAT, but you have made it an issue ANYWAY.

kudo: at least you caught on to the fact that each of my four points was SEPARATE, not connected.  that is a relief.  because that mistake was, frankly, stupid.  and i know you are a bright enough guy. 

[Virgil Showlion]

Mar 28, 2017 22:59:03 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

that is not the same thing at all.  i never said that Bush or anyone else was INCAPABLE of stupidity.  i said that they were not idiots.

i have no interest in getting into a semantics debate with you, either, so please stop making this one.  i didn't sow a damn thing.  i was just making a narrow point that i don't think Brown or Bush are stupid.  what i find bothersome about this argument is that YOU KNEW THAT, but you have made it an issue ANYWAY.

kudo: at least you caught on to the fact that each of my four points was SEPARATE, not connected.  that is a relief.  because that mistake was, frankly, stupid.  and i know you are a bright enough guy. 

I know nothing of the sort.

I have a functional definition of stupidity: stupid is as stupid does. A well-educated, high-IQ individual who consistently does stupid things is a stupid person.

The caveat is that I don't like applying the term "stupid" to people except in extreme cases. I prefer "foolish" to describe individuals who do things unbecoming of their intellect and education, and "ignorant" to describe individuals who couldn't find their arse with both hands.

But if I were to describe anyone as "stupid", Pres. Bush and Gov. Brown would be high up on the list. Both extremely well educated yet still capable of remarkable feats of boneheadery, totally unwilling to learn from their mistakes.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 29, 2017 8:28:15 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Mar 28, 2017 22:59:03 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

that is not the same thing at all.  i never said that Bush or anyone else was INCAPABLE of stupidity.  i said that they were not idiots.

i have no interest in getting into a semantics debate with you, either, so please stop making this one.  i didn't sow a damn thing.  i was just making a narrow point that i don't think Brown or Bush are stupid.  what i find bothersome about this argument is that YOU KNEW THAT, but you have made it an issue ANYWAY.

kudo: at least you caught on to the fact that each of my four points was SEPARATE, not connected.  that is a relief.  because that mistake was, frankly, stupid.  and i know you are a bright enough guy. 

I know nothing of the sort.

I have a functional definition of stupidity: stupid is as stupid does. A well-educated, high-IQ individual who consistently does stupid things is a stupid person.

The caveat is that I don't like applying the term "stupid" to people except in extreme cases. I prefer "foolish" to describe individuals who do things unbecoming of their intellect and education, and "ignorant" to describe individuals who couldn't find their arse with both hands.

But if I were to describe anyone as "stupid", Pres. Bush and Gov. Brown would be high up on the list. Both extremely well educated yet still capable of remarkable feats of boneheadery, totally unwilling to learn from their mistakes.

yes you do.  you said in your post above that you have noted that i have said Bush is not an idiot many times.

wtf are you talking about, Virgil?  do you just like to argue?  why are you contradicting yourself?

PS- we have already established that you think at least two Yale grads are stupid, and i don't.  there is nothing more to discuss, imo.  i don't call ANYONE stupid that is capable of intelligent speech.  that they are capable of BEING stupid on occasion is a given.  even we are, as this discussion proves.  but i am going to exercise my intelligence and opt out.

[Virgil Showlion]

Mar 29, 2017 10:31:47 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 29, 2017 8:28:15 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

I know nothing of the sort.

I have a functional definition of stupidity: stupid is as stupid does. A well-educated, high-IQ individual who consistently does stupid things is a stupid person.

The caveat is that I don't like applying the term "stupid" to people except in extreme cases. I prefer "foolish" to describe individuals who do things unbecoming of their intellect and education, and "ignorant" to describe individuals who couldn't find their arse with both hands.

But if I were to describe anyone as "stupid", Pres. Bush and Gov. Brown would be high up on the list. Both extremely well educated yet still capable of remarkable feats of boneheadery, totally unwilling to learn from their mistakes.

yes you do.  you said in your post above that you have noted that i have said Bush is not an idiot many times.

wtf are you talking about, Virgil?  do you just like to argue?  why are you contradicting yourself?

PS- we have already established that you think at least two Yale grads are stupid, and i don't.  there is nothing more to discuss, imo.  i don't call ANYONE stupid that is capable of intelligent speech.  that they are capable of BEING stupid on occasion is a given.  even we are, as this discussion proves.  but i am going to exercise my intelligence and opt out.

You're going to ask me three questions but then... opt out of replying?

Hey, I won't look a gift horse in the mouth. I love it when the guy I'm debating just sits there and takes it.

I interpreted your post to mean "Virgil knows Brown and Bush aren't stupid". You apparently intended it to mean "Virgil knows DJ doesn't think Brown or Bush are stupid". That's what you get for leaving participles a-dangling.

Also, liberals are responsible for all the world's problems, Pres. Trump is a genius, and California is a leech.

[tallguy]

SOMEbody is apparently off their meds....   

If anyone wants to get back on topic, Seattle has joined San Francisco in filing suit against the Trump administration over the executive order requiring cities to cooperate with federal authorities on enforcing immigration law or risk having funds pulled.  

“Instead of the press conferences from the White House, instead of the tweets from the White House, we want to have a sober statement of the law that can be reassuring to the communities that this…is still a nation of laws,” Holmes said.

U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions’ statements Monday that local jurisdictions may have Department of Justice funds pulled if they fail to cooperate with federal authorities in enforcing immigration policy may have been the straw that broke the camel’s back, though Murray has voiced Seattle’s defiance since the order was issued.
But that defiance is well within the bounds of the law, according to Holmes.

“Local governments do not enforce federal law,” Holmes said. “We are prohibited from doing so and moreover, even if we did, given this administration that would like to commandeer our resources, we would face civil liability, ironically, under federal law.”

Sessions’ latest threat to pull only DOJ grants would cost Seattle about $2.6 million in 2017, or $13 million over several years.
Holmes argues in the suit -- prepared with pro bono help from East Coast law firm Mayer Brown -- that based on the 10th amendment, the federal government can’t force a city to participate in enforcement of federal law.

Seattle has a sort of don’t ask, don’t tell policy when it comes to immigration status, something Holmes said doesn’t violate federal law, despite Trump’s and Sessions’ repeated assertions otherwise.

link

[Tennesseer]

Looks like no visiting the space needle too.

[Tennesseer]

Looks like Oregon is out too.

City Council to declare Portland a 'sanctuary city'

[zibazinski]

Mar 29, 2017 19:47:37 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Looks like Oregon is out too.

City Council to declare Portland a 'sanctuary city'

No shock there.