I was much happier on the Politics board in 2012

[weltschmerz]

Jan 14, 2017 12:36:03 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Jan 14, 2017 12:28:34 GMT -5 buystoys said:

Thank you dezailoooooo and tallguy for your responses.

I will disagree that a third party vote is a wasted vote.  We are too polarized with only two major parties governing us.  We need that "tie breaker" position badly in order to get things done from what I am seeing.  My hope was that this would be the year that the Libertarian Party would get the percentage needed to have the funding that could push them into a stronger position in our government.  Unfortunately, that didn't happen so we are still at a standstill in Congress and that doesn't help any of us.

I have come to the belief that DJT has a lot more at stake here than some want to credit.  His whole brand depends on his performance as POTUS.  He has a VERY personal reason to be successful in the position.  Historically he's been a participant in the Democratic Party and I find him much more centrist than right on a number of issues.  Now, I don't have a crystal ball to see how everything will play out, but I do believe he is more willing to compromise in order to move policy forward than most of the other Republican candidates would have been.  It gives me hope that he will be able to address issues that concern me.  Still not a fan of his personality, but if he performs, I can be a fan of his actions.

That is a very big assumption, and one I am hoping for as well.  Considering how much he pandered to the further-right and the angry, zero-information-voters though, I see little reason to be optimistic.

Yeah, like the guy who wants to do away with Obamacare. He's glad he's insured through the ACA and not Obamacare. Lol!

observer.com/2017/01/obamacare-hater-goes-viral-after-learning-he-has-it/

[buystoys]

Jan 14, 2017 13:52:55 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Jan 14, 2017 13:33:29 GMT -5 buystoys said:

See, I like the first portion of your response.  I have an issue with the bolded portion though.  My husband and the others I know voted for DJT are not zero information voters.  They voted based on policies DJT supported that they felt were important.  I react poorly when I see statements like that.  Writing off a group of people just because they think differently than you do or look different or believe differently is not an action I can support and I see many people (here and real life) doing so.  That amounts to bigotry as I understand it.

Be careful not to mis-read.  I am not saying that all of Trump's voters are as described there.  I have said all along that there were reasons not to vote for Hillary.  Some voted for Trump out of a sincere belief that he would be better, or that they hoped he would actually follow through on certain policies and promises.  But any view of a Trump rally will indicate that a lot of his supporters could not find a rational thought with a book of clues and a flashlight.  He chummed the waters and people bit. 

And I saw many views of HRC supporters in the same boat.  Were they also zero information voters?  Why the need to even make a statement like that?

[weltschmerz]

]



You can't make this stuff up!

[tallguy]

Jan 14, 2017 13:55:50 GMT -5 buystoys said:

Jan 14, 2017 13:52:55 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Be careful not to mis-read.  I am not saying that all of Trump's voters are as described there.  I have said all along that there were reasons not to vote for Hillary.  Some voted for Trump out of a sincere belief that he would be better, or that they hoped he would actually follow through on certain policies and promises.  But any view of a Trump rally will indicate that a lot of his supporters could not find a rational thought with a book of clues and a flashlight.  He chummed the waters and people bit. 

And I saw many views of HRC supporters in the same boat.  Were they also zero information voters?  Why the need to even make a statement like that?

Because the guy in #249 is not alone.  He has LOTS of company!

[buystoys]

So it's not an insult if I were to say something to the effect that zero information voters voted for Rahm Emmanuel and that's why Chicago has so much crime?  How about if I said zero information voters are why DeBlasio won in NYC?

It's an insulting comment.  I just wonder why it's necessary unless it is meant to show bigotry in a "nice" way.

BTW, just for the record, I would react the same way if I was discussing something about Chicago or NYC and received the statements I gave as examples.  I just don't see a need to attempt to diminish someone else in order to make a point.  At least, I try not to and if I ever have or do, please call me on it.

[tallguy]

I don't follow Chicago or New York politics so can't comment there.  With the Trump "phenomenon" it was too blatant to miss.  And it's not bigotry.  It is disillusioning though, or in more extreme cases even disgust.  The right to vote is too important to leave to those who either can't or don't think it through.  On either side.

[billisonboard]

Jan 14, 2017 14:14:14 GMT -5 buystoys said:

So it's not an insult if I were to say something to the effect that zero information voters voted for Rahm Emmanuel and that's why Chicago has so much crime? ....

The analogy would be they voted for him and thus he has no reason to compromise with anyone on city policy.

[dezailoooooo]

Jan 14, 2017 14:14:14 GMT -5 buystoys said:

So it's not an insult if I were to say something to the effect that zero information voters voted for Rahm Emmanuel and that's why Chicago has so much crime?  How about if I said zero information voters are why DeBlasio won in NYC?

It's an insulting comment.  I just wonder why it's necessary unless it is meant to show bigotry in a "nice" way.

BTW, just for the record, I would react the same way if I was discussing something about Chicago or NYC and received the statements I gave as examples.  I just don't see a need to attempt to diminish someone else in order to make a point.  At least, I try not to and if I ever have or do, please call me on it.

I am not as nice as you are...not that kind I guess..I respect that in u...to bad more of us don't have the same high morals and thoughts toward others as u do...

with all that being said...from his tweets..his history...the accusations of...they all can't be wrong and not true no matter how much he tweets they are,,[the man has enough negative disses and accusations of bad doings then a platoon of soldiers and he is one man]....our new soon to be POTUS  is a  sleeze...

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 14, 2017 13:57:10 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

]



You can't make this stuff up!

You can't?

How do you know this is real?

Never mind. Just... thinking out loud.

[Deleted]

They have done more than one survey over the years where they ask people about Obamacare and about the ACA and the ACA gets much better marks than Obamacare

[djAdvocate]

Jan 15, 2017 10:44:13 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 14, 2017 13:57:10 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

]



You can't make this stuff up!

You can't?

How do you know this is real?

Never mind. Just... thinking out loud.

let me ask you bluntly: do you not feel it is reasonably certain the exchange above is REAL?

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 15, 2017 11:51:40 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jan 15, 2017 10:44:13 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

You can't?

How do you know this is real?

Never mind. Just... thinking out loud.

let me ask you bluntly: do you not feel it is reasonably certain the exchange above is REAL?

50/50

[djAdvocate]

Jan 15, 2017 12:20:45 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 15, 2017 11:51:40 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

let me ask you bluntly: do you not feel it is reasonably certain the exchange above is REAL?

50/50

i take it that you have not seen many such exchanges in live interview and in polling?

[zibazinski]

I've seen it on both sides. It's easier to find stupid people than smart ones.

[buystoys]

Jan 15, 2017 15:20:19 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I've seen it on both sides. It's easier to find stupid people than smart ones.

I disagree.  I think it's easier to pick on "stupid" people and use them as an excuse/example to make a point.  It's done by both sides admittedly.  Still doesn't make it right.

Of course, when you consider most people who disagree with you as "stupid" it's so much easier to feel like you are "smart" by pointing out their flaws.

[zibazinski]

True enough. I remember the idiots being interviewed who thought obama was going to give them all this free stuff including houses. It was embarrassing to realize someone was that dumb and probably reproducing. So I'm sure you can find some dumb people on the other side as well.

[weltschmerz]

Jan 15, 2017 15:50:04 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

True enough. I remember the idiots being interviewed who thought obama was going to give them all this free stuff including houses. It was embarrassing to realize someone was that dumb and probably reproducing. So I'm sure you can find some dumb people on the other side as well.

How did you know it was real?

[zibazinski]

It was on tv. They were interviewed on tv. I realize there are people who have no sense of shame or decency who will do anything for money but to take advantage of these idiots by publically interviewing them and embarrassing them was tacky for any so-called news reporter/station.

[dondub]

So I'm sure you can find some dumb people on the other side as well. 

Well Trump did get 62,789,879 votes.

(ok, Richard's turn)

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 15, 2017 12:27:55 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jan 15, 2017 12:20:45 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

50/50

i take it that you have not seen many such exchanges in live interview and in polling?

Sure. I've seen countless clueless people.

I've also seen countless fake exchanges. Polemicists love making ideological opponents look like idiots, and perfect examples are hard to come by. Hence the Internetz helps them along a little.

Whether this exchange is real or not is meaningless, much less whether I believe it. I was just struck by the irony of Weltz' choice of idiom.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 15, 2017 19:12:26 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 15, 2017 12:27:55 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i take it that you have not seen many such exchanges in live interview and in polling?

Sure. I've seen countless clueless people.

cool.  no further questions, then.

[zibazinski]

Of course it seems that way to you because you want to believe it. Those who don't want to believe it think otherwise.

[Deleted]

Stupid? Or snowed?  

[djAdvocate]

Jan 15, 2017 19:50:26 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Of course it seems that way to you because you want to believe it. Those who don't want to believe it think otherwise.

you already admitted that you think people are stupid, so what position are you taking here?

[zibazinski]

Yes, people are stupid and it seems the stupid ones breed like rabbits therefore producing more stupid ones. So of course it's easy to find a stupid person in the crowd of fellow stupids to interview or post a message or email proving their stupidity. Interviewing someone rational or intelligent or worse, both, doesn't make for much fodder.

[Deleted]

Have you watched idiocracy zib? 

[zibazinski]

But thanks for making me out to say all people are stupid. That's more up some posters alleys though. Anyone with a neutral or opposite point of view is spitting in the wind. I read these posts and worry more about the posters sanity than I do about DT.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 15, 2017 19:57:46 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Yes, people are stupid and it seems the stupid ones breed like rabbits therefore producing more stupid ones. So of course it's easy to find a stupid person in the crowd of fellow stupids to interview or post a message or email proving their stupidity. Interviewing someone rational or intelligent or worse, both, doesn't make for much fodder.

cool, then we agree. 

i think* about 50% more people think that ObamaCare is bad than think the ACA is bad.  that means that 2/3 of the people surveyed PROBABLY know they are the same thing.  that leaves about 1/3 that don't know they are the same thing. 

that is far more people than can name the five essential freedoms listed in the first amendment.  most people can't even name three.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 15, 2017 19:59:58 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

But thanks for making me out to say all people are stupid. That's more up some posters alleys though. Anyone with a neutral or opposite point of view is spitting in the wind. I read these posts and worry more about the posters sanity than I do about DT.

i didn't say all.  neither did you.

i would presume that you think that SOME are stupid, or you wouldn't have said it.

for the record, i don't think many people are stupid.  but i draw a distinction between stupid and misinformed.

[zibazinski]

I don't. Maybe in your world you're surrounded by people you think are intelligent, maybe because they think like you.