finnime
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Post by finnime on Dec 23, 2016 10:16:06 GMT -5
I'm hoping this reaches some parents of girls in late elementary through high school grades. Encourage your daughters to explore computer programming.
My son is 22, and just graduated with a degree in computer science. He's accepted a very competitive position starting in January. At his commencement from the College of Computer Science, Mathematics and Sciences, I was shocked to note 9 of 10 computer science graduates were men. Not so for the biology and chemistry degrees – which often require graduate degrees and unfortunately may not lead to a satisfying profession. Women were a very big component of the applied math and statistics graduates. My DS told me women were well represented in engineering, too.
I was very surprised at the slow rate of change in computer science. This field has been in high demand for well over 30 years now. Good programmers can work from almost anywhere, are well compensated and do interesting work with interesting people. Doors are open. My DS had a number of companies recruiting him from all over the country, and has been working while in school as a programmer. Most of the time he has not needed to go to any particular location to work.
If you have a daughter, look into the Girls Who Code organization near you.
- from a former computer programmer, who thought nothing of being the only woman in a work meeting 30 years ago, but would have thought something changed by now
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 23, 2016 10:21:19 GMT -5
I see a lot of cool toys out lately that have to do with computer programming. I'm thinking of getting one for Gwen next year for her birthday. I think it would be handy for her to have computer knowledge regardless of what field she goes into. Right now she wants to be a pediatrician/OB/vet/astronaut/ballerina.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Dec 23, 2016 10:29:52 GMT -5
There are a few programs through the public schools that encourage "girls to code". It's difficult to convince any teenagers to do something that seems bland to them. We keep pushing though.
One of my daughters is actually interested in engineering. However, she doesn't have the perseverance for the upper level math. We're annoyed with her on that front. She's going to look into interior/exterior design and landscape architecture for the next term.
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Dec 23, 2016 10:31:45 GMT -5
Software development is a kick, too. Seriously - it's really creative.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Dec 23, 2016 10:59:41 GMT -5
Software development is a kick, too. Seriously - it's really creative.
Yes, I do realize that. Our local problem is that there are incredibly few of those jobs where we live. Kids don't see how it works or it's potential. Plus, they'd have to leave the area to be employed in it. The robotics programs have been a huge help in encouraging these skills. I hope it continues and actually blossoms.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 23, 2016 11:02:33 GMT -5
We have a Google campus in Council bluffs. I should check out what jobs they got.
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naughtybear
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Post by naughtybear on Dec 23, 2016 11:21:27 GMT -5
My daughter is getting her AA but her electives are computer electives because ..... tada she wants to program. Weird that this came up.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Dec 23, 2016 12:23:43 GMT -5
Dh wanted to buy something for dd to learn to code without a screen, but it was $225 and I just couldn't stomach that right now.
Maybe after the holidays and I don't feel like we're hemorraghing money.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Dec 23, 2016 12:47:21 GMT -5
My daughters are learning to code already. My husband is a software engineer so he likes to teach them. I resisted it because they have enough time to get addicted to computers, but I guess it's a good thing. Next year they will work on building a computer. They are 2.5 and 5 years old, but they like that focused time with him, so it's fun.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Dec 23, 2016 12:52:14 GMT -5
Dh wanted to buy something for dd to learn to code without a screen, but it was $225 and I just couldn't stomach that right now. Maybe after the holidays and I don't feel like we're hemorraghing money. How old is your DD again? I wouldn't spend $225 for a kid under 6. The actual basics of programming, that is only graspable by a kid once their brain matures a bit, so I would say 6 or later, depending on the kid. Most supposed "programming" gadgets r games aimed at kids under 5 are drag & drop kinds. Those things can be learned by a tablet or iPad. If I were you I'd just save the money now and focus on teaching her after she in grade 1 or 2 and showns inclination.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Dec 23, 2016 13:22:47 GMT -5
while I would not discourage a natural interest, I would not either try to encourage it where none existed given the increased incident of sexual harassment in this field.
I applaud any who feel up to weathering this and changing it from the inside, but I wouldn't push on my daughter without a strong interest on her part.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Dec 23, 2016 13:32:11 GMT -5
And if you can't get your 7 or 8 yo daughter to a "coding class" - teach the kid to crochet or knit. And once they've got the basics down - teach them how to crochet/knit from a pattern. Learning to read a pattern is a lot like 'coding' - creating your own patterns (and writing them down so someone else can follow them in "code" is a lot like, well, coding). Build them up to more complicated patterns.
Believe me. A crochet or knit pattern written out with it's abreviations and symbols (for repeating, etc) IS basically a "program" written in "code".
Getting the kid use to the idea of variables, the way a process flows (following instructions and looping back X number of times or dealing with and/or situations in a pattern) and "not quite words that mean something" is priceless.
Also - teach your kid to type on a keyboard - not to hunt and peck.
Coding is a way of thought/thinking - it isn't necessarily a fixed "language"....
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 23, 2016 13:34:28 GMT -5
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 23, 2016 13:44:36 GMT -5
while I would not discourage a natural interest, I would not either try to encourage it where none existed given the increased incident of sexual harassment in this field. I applaud any who feel up to weathering this and changing it from the inside, but I wouldn't push on my daughter without a strong interest on her part. A friend and I were talking about that same issue the other day, but instead of the field being programming, it was in regards to the military. He's about the same age as I am - late 40s - and was talking about how unfortunate it was in the military programs he'd been in (he'd gone to a military college and gotten an engineering degree and then served 10 years in one of the branches) the female candidates weren't usually as qualified as the male candidates and ended up flunking out even though the military wanted them there. I told him that a big part of the problem was that until the public perception about how women are treated in the military changes, the military isn't always going to attract the best female candidates and in return, the female candidates aren't going to perform as well because you're not starting out with the cream of the crop. I remember having all sorts of great options for college since I was a National Merit Scholar, so yes, I could have gone to one of the prestigious military academies and probably done just fine in the engineering program. But then what? If I didn't like the service or was being harassed, I'd be stuck. It really wasn't much of a choice when I thought about how I could earn six figures in private industry and be able to change jobs if I didn't like one vs. trying not to be raped in my barracks and being stuck maybe working for the same guys who didn't want me there and were the ones harrassing me in the service... Unfortunately for the military, it's a self-perpetuating cycle. Women who have a lot of options don't want or need to put up with the BS they hear about, so the only female candidates the military get are the less qualified or the (few) that have a burning desire to serve for other reasons. Since the female candidate pool isn't as qualified, they perform poorly overall, which then reinforces the bias of the men who don't want women there which keeps the discrimination cycle intact.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Dec 23, 2016 13:45:40 GMT -5
while I would not discourage a natural interest, I would not either try to encourage it where none existed given the increased incident of sexual harassment in this field. I applaud any who feel up to weathering this and changing it from the inside, but I wouldn't push on my daughter without a strong interest on her part. I second the thing about encouraging "natural interest"... and I do think that everyone should give it a try -and maybe try other aspects of the "computer world" --- Most of the best programmers/computer people I know claim they didn't struggle thru their courses at college (they put in hard work/time and got the good grades - and were challenged - but they weren't ever feeling like they weren't 'getting it' or that they needed a lot of 'tutoring' to get it. )
But, I truly think some people just aren't 'wired' to think like a programmer/IT person....
I always think of the Red Man - back 25 years ago from the local Jr. College. His face was always bright red... hence The Red Man. He was bound and determined to be a programmer - because that is were the money was. Unfortunately, he couldn't program his way to getting his PC to say "hello world" without help. The way he programmed was to put every line of code he could think of into a "program" and then hope it worked. He had trouble grasping the idea of a variable. Or the concept of a "key" or 'index' on a table (and that it was helpful if it was unique to each row). He couldn't seem to build on any of the concepts he had 'mastered' when a new concept came along.
He barely passed any of the basic "programming" courses and that was with a lot of help... I think he failed the 'weed out' class...and that got him to change his college course.
This guy was "smart" and a nice guy - he just wasn't wired to be a programmer.
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simser
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Post by simser on Dec 23, 2016 13:55:45 GMT -5
First off, I was a little disappointed in the implication that computer science is better for females than chemistry, as I'm a female with a chemistry PhD and I'm doing better with my career than a lot of people in computer programming.
But other than that, there's a lot that goes into career choice, and a smart female will look into all of that. Programmers tend to work odd hours with little social interaction- how appealing is that for the typical high school female?
When I took computer programming in high school there were 30 kids in the class- 27 of whom were boys. It wasn't that pleasant and I love male dominated fields.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 23, 2016 14:07:57 GMT -5
First off, I was a little disappointed in the implication that computer science is better for females than chemistry
Yeah I didn't like the implication about biology either. I'd like to at least expose Gwen to it because more and more technology is coming into play in medicine. I attended a lecture on 3D printing in medicine and it blew my mind. There are whole new worlds opening up that she could be a part of. I think exposing her to things like programming with things like that computer mouse is not a bad idea. She wants more toys I'd buy them and she can keep going. She doesn't want more we can still entertain ourselves with the mouse and no big deal. I encourage and support all her interests as much as possible but I also want to try to expose her to stuff she may not have thought of either. Right now it's art she is really into so she's getting an art set as requested and wants to take a class at the Josyln Museum. Also there have been multiple requests for a cello after seeing teh Symphony. Trying to encourage the trumpet instead, DH still has his so it's free.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Dec 23, 2016 14:40:56 GMT -5
Girls' minds aren't really attuned to programming.
They are attuned to ponies and the Kardashians.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Dec 23, 2016 14:42:42 GMT -5
First off, I was a little disappointed in the implication that computer science is better for females than chemistry, as I'm a female with a chemistry PhD and I'm doing better with my career than a lot of people in computer programming. But other than that, there's a lot that goes into career choice, and a smart female will look into all of that. Programmers tend to work odd hours with little social interaction- how appealing is that for the typical high school female?
When I took computer programming in high school there were 30 kids in the class- 27 of whom were boys. It wasn't that pleasant and I love male dominated fields. Ha! I work in an IT department of about 50 people and we socialize with each other and the users we support.
I suspect some sort of "computer expertise" which might involve some of the skills of "coding" go into majoring in Chemistry or Biology or whatever... Actually, some of the Accountants do code - they make excel templates and macros and such - and the ability to do that is 'coding' even though they aren't part of the IT dept. I suspect they have more "accounting" education than "programming/coding" education....
I think the whole focus on 'coding' is kind of strange... but maybe it's just a nice way to kids interested in "how their electronic devices work" rather than just being interested in knowing what buttons to push to make it do what they want it to do.
FWIW: I remember being in gradeschool in the 70's and being amazed by the Texas Instruments calculator my older brother had to buy for one of his college courses (since he wouldn't be able to use a slide rule and stuff) - it was insanely expensive and oh so magically wonderful to his little sister - it ALWAYS came up with the right answer. I remember really, really, really wanting to know how it did that... my brother tried to explain it... but it was beyond my "kid brain".
I do think that calculator and crocheting fancy doilies set me up for being open to taking that a math class in HS that required the use of "coding" and the school computer and then on to an actual programming class - this was in the late 70's early 80's.... It was frightfully easy... as compared to the Econ class and the Accounting 101 class I also took which were hard and weird and confusing.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Dec 23, 2016 14:43:50 GMT -5
I'm with the people who mentioned encouraging it if it's something they're interested in but I don't want to push any kid into a field they don't enjoy or take to just because it's something they can get a job in. I took a programming class as a business major and it just wasn't something that appealed to me at all. I've got a buddy who started programming on his own as a kid, he was working during summers in high school for big name corporations making good money, he turned into a PHD, now works for a well known company in Silicon Valley and he does it in his spare time because that's how much he enjoys it. I realize he's at the far end of the desire/drive spectrum but no matter how much someone likes or takes to something that's not something you can teach and if you push someone too much they'll grow to hate it.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Dec 23, 2016 14:44:22 GMT -5
Girls' minds aren't really attuned to programming.
They are attuned to ponies and the Kardashians. Yeah, guys are only attuned to programming so they can run thru the dry technical stuff to keep their minds off their dicks - kind of like when they go off into their own little world of trading sports statistics with other guys.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Dec 23, 2016 14:47:21 GMT -5
For the prospective young lady who desires to work in software development, there is always the threat of a plethora of fat, unwashed, socially inept Captain Sweatpantses to fight off in the workplace.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Dec 23, 2016 14:48:55 GMT -5
Girls' minds aren't really attuned to programming.
They are attuned to ponies and the Kardashians. Yeah, guys are only attuned to programming so they can run thru the dry technical stuff to keep their minds off their dicks - kind of like when they go off into their own little world of trading sports statistics with other guys. Just because you don't know how many RBIs Boog Powell had in 1966 doesn't mean you have to get all snippy about it.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Dec 23, 2016 15:21:12 GMT -5
First off, I was a little disappointed in the implication that computer science is better for females than chemistry, as I'm a female with a chemistry PhD and I'm doing better with my career than a lot of people in computer programming. But other than that, there's a lot that goes into career choice, and a smart female will look into all of that. Programmers tend to work odd hours with little social interaction- how appealing is that for the typical high school female? When I took computer programming in high school there were 30 kids in the class- 27 of whom were boys. It wasn't that pleasant and I love male dominated fields. And that is a sweeping generalization if any.... Programmers don't work "odd" hours permanently. In times of releases or crisis, just like all the other professions you know. rest of the time, I can guarantee programmers work regular 9-5 hours and most of the time even better times beacuse if there is any profession that lends itself well to flex time its programming! Be in the office or not in the office, work over the weekend or the weekdays... And such a misconception about socialization too! Its a very informal work environment for most IT folks. So lots of socializing, joking, happy hours and beer in the office....Sure there are the introverts, but which industry has none? As a career long programmer/program manager/ computer science person I can 100% guarantee that your generalizations are not the universal truths.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Dec 23, 2016 15:27:00 GMT -5
And if you can't get your 7 or 8 yo daughter to a "coding class" - teach the kid to crochet or knit. And once they've got the basics down - teach them how to crochet/knit from a pattern. Learning to read a pattern is a lot like 'coding' - creating your own patterns (and writing them down so someone else can follow them in "code" is a lot like, well, coding). Build them up to more complicated patterns.
Believe me. A crochet or knit pattern written out with it's abreviations and symbols (for repeating, etc) IS basically a "program" written in "code".
Getting the kid use to the idea of variables, the way a process flows (following instructions and looping back X number of times or dealing with and/or situations in a pattern) and "not quite words that mean something" is priceless.
Also - teach your kid to type on a keyboard - not to hunt and peck.
Coding is a way of thought/thinking - it isn't necessarily a fixed "language".... Ooh, I can't like this enough! I keep seeing things encouraging Hour of Code, Coding for kids, Girls who Code, and I'd love to start up a group at my library, but we're limited by # of public computers available (only 4) and staff time (I often work alone, so we'd need another staff member available to cover while I ran the program). Really frustrating. DS5 joined a Scratch club at his MS, he's 11. When he did, i started asking questions about it - it's thru CS First from Google. I looked into that too, to see if it might work for the library. It looks like a nice starting point. My director is trying to encourage Central to shift the summer intern storytellers from story time (poorly attended and less popular) to a coding program, if they could bring along the tech class set of laptops! The tech trainer is all booked up, and the equipment doesn't loan out w/o her currently. I did CS in college in the 80s, and I was the only girl in my year, with ~8 guys, so looks like things haven't changed much, have they? I'll have to ask DS4 about the ratio in his classes now.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Dec 23, 2016 16:08:49 GMT -5
DS4 says guys definitely outnumber girls, but he's still in the gigantic lecture weed out classes. TAs are roughly 50/50, though.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Dec 23, 2016 16:19:40 GMT -5
And if you can't get your 7 or 8 yo daughter to a "coding class" - teach the kid to crochet or knit. And once they've got the basics down - teach them how to crochet/knit from a pattern. Learning to read a pattern is a lot like 'coding' - creating your own patterns (and writing them down so someone else can follow them in "code" is a lot like, well, coding). Build them up to more complicated patterns.
Believe me. A crochet or knit pattern written out with it's abreviations and symbols (for repeating, etc) IS basically a "program" written in "code".
Getting the kid use to the idea of variables, the way a process flows (following instructions and looping back X number of times or dealing with and/or situations in a pattern) and "not quite words that mean something" is priceless.
Also - teach your kid to type on a keyboard - not to hunt and peck.
Coding is a way of thought/thinking - it isn't necessarily a fixed "language".... Ooh, I can't like this enough! I keep seeing things encouraging Hour of Code, Coding for kids, Girls who Code, and I'd love to start up a group at my library, but we're limited by # of public computers available (only 4) and staff time (I often work alone, so we'd need another staff member available to cover while I ran the program). Really frustrating. DS5 joined a Scratch club at his MS, he's 11. When he did, i started asking questions about it - it's thru CS First from Google. I looked into that too, to see if it might work for the library. It looks like a nice starting point. My director is trying to encourage Central to shift the summer intern storytellers from story time (poorly attended and less popular) to a coding program, if they could bring along the tech class set of laptops! The tech trainer is all booked up, and the equipment doesn't loan out w/o her currently. I did CS in college in the 80s, and I was the only girl in my year, with ~8 guys, so looks like things haven't changed much, have they? I'll have to ask DS4 about the ratio in his classes now. There are tons of grants for those programs. Can you partner with the YMCA, Boys & Girls Club, local school districts, etc.?
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Dec 23, 2016 16:22:51 GMT -5
First off, I was a little disappointed in the implication that computer science is better for females than chemistry, as I'm a female with a chemistry PhD and I'm doing better with my career than a lot of people in computer programming. But other than that, there's a lot that goes into career choice, and a smart female will look into all of that. Programmers tend to work odd hours with little social interaction- how appealing is that for the typical high school female? When I took computer programming in high school there were 30 kids in the class- 27 of whom were boys. It wasn't that pleasant and I love male dominated fields. And that is a sweeping generalization if any.... Programmers don't work "odd" hours permanently. In times of releases or crisis, just like all the other professions you know. rest of the time, I can guarantee programmers work regular 9-5 hours and most of the time even better times beacuse if there is any profession that lends itself well to flex time its programming! Be in the office or not in the office, work over the weekend or the weekdays... And such a misconception about socialization too! Its a very informal work environment for most IT folks. So lots of socializing, joking, happy hours and beer in the office....Sure there are the introverts, but which industry has none? As a career long programmer/program manager/ computer science person I can 100% guarantee that your generalizations are not the universal truths. The stereotype is perpetuated by the rural and suburban areas that don't have many computer science jobs. Many places can only afford one or two all-around, fix the server and the printer, type employees. So the solitary, anti-social, generally male perception is correct for many of us. Seriously, the school district in which I currently work didn't get email until 2006.
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simser
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Post by simser on Dec 23, 2016 16:32:12 GMT -5
First off, I was a little disappointed in the implication that computer science is better for females than chemistry, as I'm a female with a chemistry PhD and I'm doing better with my career than a lot of people in computer programming. But other than that, there's a lot that goes into career choice, and a smart female will look into all of that. Programmers tend to work odd hours with little social interaction- how appealing is that for the typical high school female? When I took computer programming in high school there were 30 kids in the class- 27 of whom were boys. It wasn't that pleasant and I love male dominated fields. And that is a sweeping generalization if any.... Programmers don't work "odd" hours permanently. In times of releases or crisis, just like all the other professions you know. rest of the time, I can guarantee programmers work regular 9-5 hours and most of the time even better times beacuse if there is any profession that lends itself well to flex time its programming! Be in the office or not in the office, work over the weekend or the weekdays... And such a misconception about socialization too! Its a very informal work environment for most IT folks. So lots of socializing, joking, happy hours and beer in the office....Sure there are the introverts, but which industry has none? As a career long programmer/program manager/ computer science person I can 100% guarantee that your generalizations are not the universal truths. Fair point. It has been my experience that all the computer programmers I have known (of which there are many) were even less social than the engineers I worked with. Many went specifically to work the odd hours and not have to deal with people. My sample size is >100 so I felt fairly confident, but apparently I'd need a bigger sample size. Sorry!! But same thing applies. Don't push people into a field because it's the cool field! Push them into what they want to do!
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Dec 23, 2016 16:33:09 GMT -5
And that is a sweeping generalization if any.... Programmers don't work "odd" hours permanently. In times of releases or crisis, just like all the other professions you know. rest of the time, I can guarantee programmers work regular 9-5 hours and most of the time even better times beacuse if there is any profession that lends itself well to flex time its programming! Be in the office or not in the office, work over the weekend or the weekdays... And such a misconception about socialization too! Its a very informal work environment for most IT folks. So lots of socializing, joking, happy hours and beer in the office....Sure there are the introverts, but which industry has none? As a career long programmer/program manager/ computer science person I can 100% guarantee that your generalizations are not the universal truths. The stereotype is perpetuated by the rural and suburban areas that don't have many computer science jobs. Many places can only afford one or two all-around, fix the server and the printer, type employees. So the solitary, anti-social, generally male perception is correct for many of us. Seriously, the school district in which I currently work didn't get email until 2006. Hence me saying that's it's a generalization and not a universal truth .
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