The Young Man That Works For Me, Was Back In Jail!

[OldCoyote]

I get a call from his girlfriend, He is in jail,  I was furious!  No details!

All the effort and money I had used to put him on the right track was gone!

Letting my mind run wild,  His license had been revoked for three years,  The end of revocation would Dec, 27!

I thought he had been driving the car. All was gone!!

He is out, I hear his side,  It seem They were driving in West Phoenix, His girlfriend was driving,

They were stopped by an unmarked police car, by an undercover cop,  the reason they were stopped , " they deviated from the lane".

The cop said there were two warrants, Jessie argued that those were taken care of when he incarcerated.

Arrested, take to jail, Next morning he appeared before a judge, explained those were taken care of!

Guess what?? there were no active warrants, all had been taken care of!! Some one in the Justice system did not do their job!!!!!!

 Oldcoyote is pissed,  What recourse does this young man have?

I will pay for the attorney,  What type of attorney is best suited for this?

[Deleted]

What would he need an attorney for?  It appears it was straightened out right? 

[billisonboard]

Nov 30, 2016 8:47:39 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

... Some one in the Justice system did not do their job!!!!!!

 Oldcoyote is pissed,  What recourse does this young man have?

I will pay for the attorney,  What type of attorney is best suited for this?

If you are looking to sue, I would think you should look in your neighborhood for giant billboard advertisements for a suitable attorney.

[Deleted]

Sounds like an unfortunate clerical error. It happened to my friend a couple times and there wasn't much he could do about it, it wasn't deliberate. Your employee could likely get a free consultation if he wants to sue.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Most municipal departments, including the police, have dollar limits on their liability for stuff like this unless your employee (and his attorney) can prove racial profiling/harassment/entrapment, etc. So, if it's a straightforward clerical error, he'll have to prove his damages (lost wages, etc.) to a limit of usually $200K. If it's a case based upon something more sinister, then a jury will decide the merits, and, the damages, if any.

In other words, if he just wants to sue simply because he was inconvenienced by his own criminal record, it might not be worth his time. Sometimes you just gotta take the high road and move on in life...

[obelisk]

At a traffic stop, how many times does the police run the ID's of passenger(s)?

Especially for a minor traffic infraction by an undercover officer.

Since when are undercover officers traffic cops?

Most likely the cop pulled the vehicle over for so called "suspicious activity" which is total BS.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Nov 30, 2016 12:24:48 GMT -5 obelisk said:

At a traffic stop, how many times does the police run the ID's of passenger(s)?

Especially for a minor traffic infraction by an undercover officer.

Since when are undercover officers traffic cops?

Most likely the cop pulled the vehicle over for so called "suspicious activity" which is total BS.

my youngest niece was returned to the juvie court via the cop running the names of all the people in the car. She gave a different last name, nothing popped and the cop apparently came back and requested her real name. Which popped the "runaway, when found; detain" warrant.

I was told it was a routine traffic stop, which several people(including me) have interpreted as driving while black. I have no clue if the cop was undercover or not. Or if there was a valid reason for the pullover. In this case, we got DN#6 back into the system so it worked in our favor.

[movingforward]

Nov 30, 2016 12:24:48 GMT -5 obelisk said:

At a traffic stop, how many times does the police run the ID's of passenger(s)?

Especially for a minor traffic infraction by an undercover officer.

Since when are undercover officers traffic cops?

Most likely the cop pulled the vehicle over for so called "suspicious activity" which is total BS.

To be fair, we have no idea why the cop pulled the vehicle over.  We know what the employee told oldcoyote.  That is it...nothing else. 

[milee]

The whole story is only what the employee and his girlfriend told oldcoyote.  Based on my past dealings with employees, my guess is that there is a lot more to this story... a whole lot more.  

Oldcoyote, as one employer to another, save your outrage and your money.  Don't get sucked into this drama any more than you already have.  You've done more than enough, now let the guy sink or swim.  Does he show up for work and do a good job?  That's pretty much all you should be focused on right now.  

[swamp]

He will be awarded $50 for his inconvenience.

[shanendoah]

Many police vehicles now have systems in them that automatically run all plates their camera sees. The police officer doesn't have to do anything, the system does it. If it then pops up with anything - like an outstanding warrant, the police have the right to pull the vehicle over, even if no laws were being violated at the time.

A likely (not guaranteed, but likely) scenario is that the system ran the plate. The car is registered in the young man's name. It pulled up the outstanding warrants. The police officer received this notification, noticed that the passengers of the car included one female (driving) and one male (passenger). The officer decided it was possible the male was the person with the outstanding warrants. Pulled them over, and asked for IDs (because it is also possible the male in the car is not the one with outstanding warrants). With the IDs, had confirmation of the identity of the male and arrested him on outstanding warrants.
The next day, the young man appeared in front of the judge, who had access to better information than the police officer (different systems used by the court than the police), and let the young man go.

Given that there is always going to be imperfect information sharing, the system worked exactly as it should. It sucks. Not saying it doesn't. But there's also nothing the young man (or OldCoyote) can do about it. There is no legal recourse.
Since the young man is not being charged with anything new, like driving on a suspended license, I suspect the story is pretty much exactly what they told oldcoyote. I guess it's possible the girlfriend was driving a little too fast, forgot to use a turn signal, ran a stop sign, etc, that might have resulted in them being pulled over, but none of that is the fault of the young man who was the passenger and is the employee, so it really doesn't matter.

[movingforward]

Nov 30, 2016 13:30:26 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Nov 30, 2016 12:24:48 GMT -5 obelisk said:

At a traffic stop, how many times does the police run the ID's of passenger(s)?

Especially for a minor traffic infraction by an undercover officer.

Since when are undercover officers traffic cops?

Most likely the cop pulled the vehicle over for so called "suspicious activity" which is total BS.

The last time I was a passenger at a traffic stop I was asked for ID which the cop ran.     Both me and the driver are white. 

I see undercover cars pulling people over all the time.   That's kind of the point of them,  to blend in to catch speeders and other infractions that a marked squad would prevent. 

This blond haired, blue eyed woman has been stopped more times than I would like to admit .  They always run ID.  I have never been stopped by an undercover police car but in high school I had a dumb ass friend who threw an empty pizza box out the window and hit the undercover car behind us .  I absolutely hate litterbugs (even then) so I was actually happy about it. 

[Deleted]

I warn my son of this all the time.  You screw up, and it's going to follow you for a long time.  The kid never would have had a problem if it wasn't for his criminal history.  It sounds like he's on the right path now, so he should just keep moving forward and chalk it up to one of the consequences of his past poor decisions. 

[mollyanna58]

Many police vehicles now have systems in them that automatically run all plates their camera sees.

I find that chilling.  It is the attitude that everyone is guilty.

[Tiny]

Nov 30, 2016 8:47:39 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

 
Guess what?? there were no active warrants, all had been taken care of!! Some one in the Justice system did not do their job!!!!!!

 Oldcoyote is pissed,  What recourse does this young man have?
 

I would strongly suggest to your employee that he find a way to follow and confirm that the warrants have actually been taken care of and no long show up in the system as active.   

I think that's a good place to spend time (and maybe the money)... making sure his records are up to date.  

I think a lot of people just take the "oh, it's been fixed" to mean it's actually been fixed... I bet the current "all taken care of" was just that someone reviewed the documents and dates and put two and two together to realize the warrants weren't valid.

I'd make sure the COMPUTER knows the warrants aren't active... 

[zibazinski]

Nov 30, 2016 14:12:18 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

Many police vehicles now have systems in them that automatically run all plates their camera sees.

I find that chilling.  It is the attitude that everyone is guilty.

Doesn't bother me a bit.

[Deleted]

Does it run everyone in the car though? I've never had that happen...

In some ways? Ok. But in others... I've had Ellie parents of white teens who basically got away with a ton of shit with minimal fines and warnings, which I know that had they been minorities they would have had a different outcome. I think until we fix some of the systemic bias in the system there are going to be issues. 

[Opti]

Nov 30, 2016 14:12:18 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

Many police vehicles now have systems in them that automatically run all plates their camera sees.

I find that chilling.  It is the attitude that everyone is guilty.

Its more likely its the attitude of revenue generation. MHO.

[OldCoyote]

Nov 30, 2016 18:18:47 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Nov 30, 2016 8:47:39 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

 
Guess what?? there were no active warrants, all had been taken care of!! Some one in the Justice system did not do their job!!!!!!

 Oldcoyote is pissed,  What recourse does this young man have?
 

I would strongly suggest to your employee that he find a way to follow and confirm that the warrants have actually been taken care of and no long show up in the system as active.   

I think that's a good place to spend time (and maybe the money)... making sure his records are up to date.  

I think a lot of people just take the "oh, it's been fixed" to mean it's actually been fixed... I bet the current "all taken care of" was just that someone reviewed the documents and dates and put two and two together to realize the warrants weren't valid.

I'd make sure the COMPUTER knows the warrants aren't active... 

He said the Judge apologized.  We will check on this further.

[OldCoyote]

Nov 30, 2016 13:23:38 GMT -5 swamp said:

He will be awarded $50 for his inconvenience.

A night in the jail and missed a full days pay,  fifty bucks is it?

Just gives oldcoyote more reason to bitch about government! as if I didn't already have enough.

[OldCoyote]

How comes if I make a "little mistake" with paperwork, it always cost me money?

[OldCoyote]

Nov 30, 2016 13:18:05 GMT -5 milee said:

The whole story is only what the employee and his girlfriend told oldcoyote.  Based on my past dealings with employees, my guess is that there is a lot more to this story... a whole lot more.  

Oldcoyote, as one employer to another, save your outrage and your money.  Don't get sucked into this drama any more than you already have.  You've done more than enough, now let the guy sink or swim.  Does he show up for work and do a good job?  That's pretty much all you should be focused on right now.  

He is doing an outstanding job! Now has his GED.

[OldCoyote]

Fifty bucks,   Hmmm, Just out of curiosity,   What would it be worth to you, to be arrested, spend your night in a "horrible" jail cell,

lose a days pay, appear before a Judge, and finally be released because of a clerical mistake, When you have done nothing wrong?

What would that be worth to you??

Next,  O.C has filed a complaint against you, you are arrested, go to jail overnight, go before a Judge, only to find O.C. has no grounds for his complaint!!

What would that be worth to you?

 

[movingforward]

Nov 30, 2016 21:06:12 GMT -5 oped said:

Does it run everyone in the car though? I've never had that happen...

In some ways? Ok. But in others... I've had Ellie parents of white teens who basically got away with a ton of shit with minimal fines and warnings, which I know that had they been minorities they would have had a different outcome. I think until we fix some of the systemic bias in the system there are going to be issues. 

I completely agree with you, but do we even know that oldcoyote's employee is a minority?  Like I said, I agree with what you said (I typically do ) but in this instance I am not sure we actually have enough information to make a judgment. 

[shanendoah]

oped - It can't run everyone in the car. It runs the plates, and then whoever the car is registered to. So in my case, it would run me and my husband, since the car is registered in both of our names. If there were two people in the car, one male, one female, and an active warrant came up say for me, the cop would pull the car over and ask for the IDs of everyone in the car. If I was in the car, I would then be arrested. But there is always the chance the female in the car isn't me, or there's the chance that if I knew there was an active warrant for me, I'd run or do something else. So when the cop pulls us over, he gives a BS response about why. Gets the IDs. But the real clue that something is wrong is if they ask for the IDs of everyone in the car. I've been a passenger in the car when we were pulled over for actually speeding, and never been asked for my ID in those cases.

OldCoyote - Who is he going to sue? The cop acted on the information he had in his system. He did nothing wrong. The judge then apologized and let him out based on the information he had in his system. The two are different systems, so the problem came in transferring the info between the systems. Is it done manually? Is the person at fault some random clerk who thought he'd entered the info but didn't? Is it a different random clerk who forgot to pass on the information to be updated in the other system? Or is the court system supposed to auto-update the police system and there was a glitch? Is there a programmer he can sue, then?
Again, this SUCKS. Please know I understand that (probably even better than you do). But this was a system glitch somewhere. And there was likely no way it was ever going to be caught without something like this happening. You can't sue the government for every computer glitch, or random human error. swamp says he might be able to get $50. In WA, I think he'd be lucky not to have to pay the attorney for the 15 minutes it would take to tell him he has no case.

[Deleted]

He got off lucky.  In my State they would have charged him for the day in jail!  

You can spend years even decades in prison and be exonerated with no compensation.  One night sucks, but not the end of the world.  If you want to help him out, pay him for the day he missed. 

[Deleted]

The plates in Wisconsin Beth case weren't in neice name. Im glad she was found, but I do have concerns about general use....

[swamp]

Dec 1, 2016 8:42:03 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Fifty bucks,   Hmmm, Just out of curiosity,   What would it be worth to you, to be arrested, spend your night in a "horrible" jail cell,

lose a days pay, appear before a Judge, and finally be released because of a clerical mistake, When you have done nothing wrong?

What would that be worth to you??

Next,  O.C has filed a complaint against you, you are arrested, go to jail overnight, go before a Judge, only to find O.C. has no grounds for his complaint!!

What would that be worth to you?

 

OK, $50 for inconvenience and a day's pay.

[hoops902]

Dec 1, 2016 12:48:08 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Dec 1, 2016 12:21:21 GMT -5 oped said:

The plates in Wisconsin Beth case weren't in neice name. Im glad she was found, but I do have concerns about general use....

I agree with you in theory,  but I start to break down under the practical application.   

A lot of police work is finding patterns in people and behavior, and there's a lot of confirmation bias and legit confirmation to back up the tactics police use.   Even in this case whatever the original motivator was that caused the police to pull over the car in the first place was rewarded when they found DN #6 who was an active runaway.   It's really no different than the chicken and egg of higher police presence in the inner cities.   The cops hang out there because there is more crime.   Now is there really more crime or is found more because they are there.   I think there is more crime in the inner city but at the same time they also find more because they are actively looking.   

But to get back to the place where I agree with you.   I don't like the attitude... "Well I didn't do anything so I have nothing to fear".   And I really do have issues with the erosion of privacy and increased gov't and police surveillance 

I can see a slippery slope argument, but in terms of just checking plates...there's nothing really private about that. You're giving the government the information, then the government is using it. I'm pretty well for very limited government intervention into anything...but this seems harmless as-is.

[dannylion]

Getting back to the original issue, it would seem to be a practical example of how poor decisions and bad life choices can come back to bite one in the butt long after the poor decisions and bad choices have been made and the immediate consequences thereof have been experienced.