CTE, Concussions and Sports - Change Coming?

[milee]

With all the information we have now about CTE, does that change how you look at sports?  Will it change how sports are played in the future?

Thinking about this issue this morning after seeing this article:  www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/indiana-qb-zander-diamont-to-quit-football-after-season-i-need-my-brain/ar-AAkPak2?li=BBnb7Kz  Not a huge deal and not a groundbreaking article, I was just saddened to see that the article itself doesn't discuss CTE at all.  But that seems to be what's happening right now - CTE is like a dirty, but open, secret that isn't discussed publicly.  In other words, we now know that these athletes are literally destroying their brains for our entertainment; we know it but are too attached to the entertainment, tradition and money to change it.

For me the most interesting dynamic is the interplay of football and high schools and colleges.  Our public schools are so overprotective and risk averse that they now ask for a notarized permission form for most field trips and do a criminal background check on parents who volunteer on campus, yet we still host, encourage and celebrate playing a sport that we know to permanently and irrevocably damage kids' brains?  The same colleges who have fired professors for stating that people should be able to wear whatever Halloween costumes they want and who are falling over themselves to create "safe spaces" to protect fragile students from the "microagressions" of cultural appropriation such as a white student wearing dreadlocks... still host, encourage and profit from their students playing brain damaging sports.  Partly out of tradition, but let's all be honest - mostly because those sports are profitable for the schools.

Will it change?  If so, when?  Does watching these young kids damage their brains for our amusement make you uncomfortable or is it just another personal choice? 

[Deleted]

Where I grew up smaller schools are having difficulty fielding football teams with less kids going out due to fear of injury, at least that is what one coach I spoke with believes.

I quit playing football after my sophomore year of high school but it was because I feared a knee or ankle injury, I witnessed way too many people blowing out a knee and then trying to play with a brace. There wasn't the CTE fear back in the late 90's. I took a lot of grief from my family for quitting, high school football was a huge deal in the town I grew up in. My younger brother did play through senior year due to the pressure even though he didn't want to.

If I had a son today I wouldn't prevent them from playing football but would significantly discourage it.

[Deleted]

It makes me uncomfortable, and I live in a state whose major claim to fame is its football programs.  Every year I have multiple students who have to stay at home for several weeks in a dark room avoiding any type of mental stimulation as they recover from concussions caused by sports.  But any sport carries this danger.  One cheerleader cheered with a concussion and then broke her neck.  A baseball pitcher took a line-drive to the head and got a concussion.  These are more likely with a true contact sport like football, though.

From what they have told us about concussions, the effect is cumulative.  So the second concussion and then the third aren't just another concussion.  They are multipliers.  It's like an Iphone screen that gets weakened every time it is dropped until it just shatters from a minor mishap. 

But I don't know that football or boxing will go away.  It is big business just like the tobacco companies are.  They haven't gone away, have they?  I think the best we can hope for is that the nature of these sports will change with more protective equipment and more rules designed to protect the player.  Yesterday in the Alabama/Auburn game, one player ran into another, knocking his helmet with his helmet.  They called it something like "targeting a defenseless player" although the player who ran into him didn't really "target" him.  The announcers were discussing how the player running into him should be required to turn as he hit, deflecting the blow so it's not head-on.  I'm lousy at explaining football so if I explained it wrong, I don't want to hear about it.  LOL.  

My point is that the sport will have to change.  The Players' union may have to pressure the owners to make this happen, though.  To me, safety is one of the legitimate purposes of unionization. But that's unionization done right, which doesn't happen as often as it should.

[tskeeter]

It will change when our values change.  When parents refuse to give their children permission to participate in activities that can cause irreparable injuries. When high schools and colleges do not profit from the sport.  (According to Dad, a 30 year school administrator, ticket revenues from football and basketball pay for most of the other extracurricular activities, such as golf, track, debate, etc.) 

I think the key to driving change is to educate key stakeholders about the risks kids are exposed to by playing football.  First, parents need to understand the risks of their children.  Second, school boards need to understand the risks.  The risk to kids.  And the risk that the school district and individual board members could be sued personally for negligently exposing students to permanent brain damage.

[rob base]

Nothing substantial will change. Too much money involved and too many fans could care less.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

My son coaches youth ice hockey. The league taught them how to check for a concussion and take a player out of the game. It has been rare here. At this age (5 - 12) most of them get winded and return to play shortly after a hit. There is no "checking". When a player goes down all the other players take a knee and quietly wait. They are teaching safety and respect. 

[giramomma]

Nov 27, 2016 11:44:54 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

My son coaches youth ice hockey. The league taught them how to check for a concussion and take a player out of the game. It has been rare here. At this age (5 - 12) most of them get winded and return to play shortly after a hit. There is no "checking". When a player goes down all the other players take a knee and quietly wait. They are teaching safety and respect. 

Yes. It all comes down to coaching, IMVHO.

DS played tackle in 4th grade.  The boys had very little contact during the practices during the week. In 1.5 hours, an 45 min of that was strength conditioning, a half hour was working on technique and plays. 15 was actually contact.

DS's coach said the minute the other team played dirty, he was packing up the team and leaving. That's how strongly he believed in safety. They also did not play my son as often, because his lack of defending was a safety issue for others.

And when one of the kids got a concussion from riding on their scooter without a helmet, that kid was not allowed to practice/play for several weeks.

Much different than pee wee kids who are taught to hit as hard as they can from age 4 or 5.

 I think it's also personal choice. I'm not about to tell people that they can't engage in behavior that will harm them. Can you imagine all the laws if we tried to protect people from themselves? Where would it end? And who would be right?

[milee]

Nov 27, 2016 13:45:07 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Nov 27, 2016 11:44:54 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

 I think it's also personal choice. I'm not about to tell people that they can't engage in behavior that will harm them. Can you imagine all the laws if we tried to protect people from themselves? Where would it end? And who would be right?

This is the part I struggle with.  As a big believer in personal choice, I lean hard towards the theory that people should be able to choose their own path, even a path that others might think is dumb.  The difference here is that this is an activity that's started - and much of the permanent, irreversible injury occurs - when the participants are children.  It's reasonable to seek to minimize injury to children since the general consensus is that children aren't always equipped with the decision making skills, especially consideration of long term consequences, to make certain decisions for themselves.  

We don't let children smoke for example.  And the growing evidence is that the risk for CTE in football is at least as deadly and debilitating as the risks from smoking...

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Concussions ARE an issue. YDS has suffered 2 severe concussions (playing high school lacrosse) and, consequently, has given up all contact sports.

As frightening as concussions are, I still believe that there is great value in playing a team sport. Are there risks? Sure? But life itself is a risk. We do the best we can to eliminate and avoid risk and go on and experience all that life has to offer. Heck, you can trip and fall and get a concussion in your own home, but we don't then declare all homes unsafe and move to padded tents outdoors.

JMHO. In fact, I have a plaque in a conspicuous place in my kitchen that says "Life's goal is not to arrive at the grave unscarred, but to slide in sideways yelling "Holy Sh*t!! What a ride!!"

YMMV. Just don't take sports away because they involve risk.

[milee]

There are plenty of team sports that don't involve risking brain function.

There is risk and there is risk... I'd be happy to lay 1000 to 1 odds that the risks of concussion from playing football for example are significantly higher than the risks of concussion from tripping and falling in your own home when compared to an equal time spent basis (percent of participants who get a concussion during one hour of each activity).

Again, to compare it to smoking, saying we could get a concussion falling in our own home so we shouldn't worry in getting them in an activity that's been shown to increase risks of concussion is a lot like saying that people who have never smoked can get lung cancer so we shouldn't worry about smoking.  Doesn't hold water.  I keep bringing up smoking because there are a lot of parallels here.  Just a few decades ago, people didn't believe it was harmful and it was so ingrained in culture that the idea of prohibiting smoking was considered silly or crazy.  Even when the evidence about smoking being harmful was widely published people didn't really want to believe it and it took decades and a huge public campaign to change people's behavior because they just couldn't conceive of something that was so integral to their life being harmful.  They didn't want to quit, they couldn't quit, people's jobs and income was tied to it, it was part of the fabric of their lives.  Now, we wouldn't be shocked and condemn people who let their kids smoke or even smoke around their kids, but even as recently as the '80s high schools had a smoking area where the kids could smoke on campus.  

I think a couple of decades from now, people will view allowing kids to play some of the currently popular contact sports in the same way we now view smoking - with disbelief that people ever thought it was OK. 

[tallguy]

There have been a number of changes already.  The rules are much stricter in both college and the NFL.  College has the "targeting" rule where a player is ejected from the game (and may also have to sit out the first half of the next one) for a hit to the head.  The NFL has specific rules about hits to the head or neck area of both quarterbacks and "defenseless" receivers, and for helmet-to-helmet contact.  They have changed the kickoff rules several times to attempt to minimize full-speed collisions, and have discussed doing away with kickoffs entirely.  There is also the concussion protocol where players suspected of having concussions must be immediately taken out of the game and examined by doctors.  If signs of concussion are detected, they are immediately removed and must undergo a battery of tests over the next several days (or weeks) before being allowed to play again.

The problem is that this is still an "assumption of risk" issue, and we should not be prohibited from making the choice.  A number of players have retired rather than continue to risk concussions.  There was a linebacker for the 49'ers (Chris Borland) who retired a couple of years ago after a very successful rookie season, and I don't recall him even suffering a concussion.  His thought was that he was going to need his brain later in life, and didn't need to play football.  Good for him, for making the choice that was right for him.

As for me, I will continue to watch and enjoy the game, and trust that the league, the teams, and the players are sufficiently aware by now of the risks and will continue to try to minimize them.  

ETA:  From the Borland link (a long read but fascinating in a way):

Borland had said previously that he had two diagnosed concussions -- one that knocked him out during eighth-grade soccer, another while playing football his sophomore year at Archbishop Alter.

"Some people have the misconception that concussions occur only after you black out when you get a hit to the head or to your body," the graduate assistant told him. "But in reality, concussions have occurred any time you've had any symptoms for any period of time." She ticked them off: blurred vision, seeing stars, sensitivity to light or noise, headaches, dizziness, etc.

"Based on that definition, how many concussions do you think you've had?" she asked.

Borland paused.

"I don't know, 30?" he said finally. "Yeah, I think 30's a good estimate."

 

[alabamagal]

My son had his first and worse concussion at age 8 in a car accident. We are not going to start driving kids around.

He had his 2nd one in a football game in 7th grade. This was 10 years ago when there was less awareness of concussions. His coaches recognized it and kept him out of rest of game and it was last game of the season. He didn't have any symptoms afterward so it was minor. His 3rd was senior year in football practice when his head hit ground. He had no symptoms afterward but was out for a week.

I think my sons first concussion which sent him to hospital made him more likely to have others. But I think there was a huge benefit to my son playing football. Fitness, teamwork, working through adversity.

I would rather have my kids out playing sports than sitting around playing video games and getting fat.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

So where do you draw the line?  Just about every sport you run the risk of concussion.  It is more likely in some sports than others.  You'd put football, ice hockey and soccer at one end of the spectrum, and track events (where some are more likely to occur than others) at the other end.  What becomes an acceptable risk?  Are you willing to accept this?

I belong to a lot of hip groups and this issue comes up In a couple different ways.  One way is prophylactic antibiotics for dental treatments.  Your risk of infection is very low, but when it occurs, it is life altering.  So is forgoing it because risk is low acceptable?  Are you willing to accept the risk?  If you are a runner, do you continue to run?  It is generally accepted that it is considered not a great idea, but the surgeon won't tell you not to.  Are you willing to accept the risk that it WILL lead to the need for an early revision?  Is running more important to you than the hassles of additionalsurgery, along with the risks that accompany it including infection and possible disability?

You can bang your head up against the wall, but for some this is an acceptable risk.  To use your smoking analogy, lung cancer is a low risk, until it happens to you.

[grumpyhermit]

The problem with CTE is that it's not just concussions (which seems to be the focus of the current rule changes in football, and the mandatory concussion protocols), but all the sub-concussive hits as well. 

I don't expect much will change. There is too much money involved, both for teams, and players. They will probably continue to create rules that don't really get to the bottom of the issue, which is that the very nature of football is going to lead to these problems, concussions or not. 

[milee]

Within the next few years, hopefully there will be more conclusive data so people can make decisions about risk. 

The decisions I'd make as an adult would probably be different than those I'd make for my children.  Although I'd probably be considered at the "free range" end of the parenting spectrum, I think it's my job to get my kids to adulthood without brain damage so I would not let them participate in activities with a high risk of concussion or brain damage; what they choose as adults will be up to them and their priorities.  As an adult, I accept a fair amount of injury risk in my activities but definitely try to do whatever I can to protect my brain function since it's how I make my living and for me is a huge part of my quality of life.  

IMHO, the problem we have when looking at the CTE issue is that bottom line - people enjoy sports.  They enjoy watching them, they have family traditions based around them, they view them as a huge part of their life.  It's inconceivable to them that these sports might be so detrimental, so like we all do with things that we can't reconcile, they explain away or justify the risks because the consequences are too awful to face.

[Pants]

Nov 27, 2016 15:20:38 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

My son had his first and worse concussion at age 8 in a car accident. We are not going to start driving kids around.

He had his 2nd one in a football game in 7th grade. This was 10 years ago when there was less awareness of concussions. His coaches recognized it and kept him out of rest of game and it was last game of the season. He didn't have any symptoms afterward so it was minor. His 3rd was senior year in football practice when his head hit ground. He had no symptoms afterward but was out for a week.

I think my sons first concussion which sent him to hospital made him more likely to have others. But I think there was a huge benefit to my son playing football. Fitness, teamwork, working through adversity.

I would rather have my kids out playing sports than sitting around playing video games and getting fat.

Football is not the only sport that would provide fitness, teamwork and working through adversity. Neither is the dichotomy "play football or sit around playing video games and get fat." There's a wide range of sports available that don't involve damaging ones brain that provide all of those things. 

[Pants]

Nov 27, 2016 15:42:00 GMT -5 milee said:

Within the next few years, hopefully there will be more conclusive data so people can make decisions about risk. 

The decisions I'd make as an adult would probably be different than those I'd make for my children.  Although I'd probably be considered at the "free range" end of the parenting spectrum, I think it's my job to get my kids to adulthood without brain damage so I would not let them participate in activities with a high risk of concussion or brain damage; what they choose as adults will be up to them and their priorities.  As an adult, I accept a fair amount of injury risk in my activities but definitely try to do whatever I can to protect my brain function since it's how I make my living and for me is a huge part of my quality of life.  

IMHO, the problem we have when looking at the CTE issue is that bottom line - people enjoy sports.  They enjoy watching them, they have family traditions based around them, they view them as a huge part of their life.  It's inconceivable to them that these sports might be so detrimental, so like we all do with things that we can't reconcile, they explain away or justify the risks because the consequences are too awful to face.

Football is the modern equivalent of gladiatorial games. We know it hurts people, we know they are injured, sometimes permanently, but at the end of the day we all want to see the hard hits. It's very bloodthirsty. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Nov 27, 2016 15:42:00 GMT -5 milee said:

Within the next few years, hopefully there will be more conclusive data so people can make decisions about risk. 

The decisions I'd make as an adult would probably be different than those I'd make for my children.  Although I'd probably be considered at the "free range" end of the parenting spectrum, I think it's my job to get my kids to adulthood without brain damage so I would not let them participate in activities with a high risk of concussion or brain damage; what they choose as adults will be up to them and their priorities.  As an adult, I accept a fair amount of injury risk in my activities but definitely try to do whatever I can to protect my brain function since it's how I make my living and for me is a huge part of my quality of life.  

IMHO, the problem we have when looking at the CTE issue is that bottom line - people enjoy sports.  They enjoy watching them, they have family traditions based around them, they view them as a huge part of their life.  It's inconceivable to them that these sports might be so detrimental, so like we all do with things that we can't reconcile, they explain away or justify the risks because the consequences are too awful to face.

But it doesn't matter, for some.  Playing football (and why are you demonizing other sports?) increases your risk, and there is always someone who is willing to accept those risks, regardless of what the number is.  Putting an exact number on it (and I seriously doubt you can do this) isn't going to change the attitude.  

Where do you draw the line?  It is easy to demonize football, but I suspect that more than one figure skater, gymnast, equestrian, skier, etc. has dealt with multiple concussions.  The only difference is that (1) skaters and gymnasts usually leave the competitive field much earlier and (2) they don't get the same kind of publicity.

[milee]

Nov 27, 2016 11:31:05 GMT -5 @aj said:

Where I grew up smaller schools are having difficulty fielding football teams with less kids going out due to fear of injury, at least that is what one coach I spoke with believes.

I quit playing football after my sophomore year of high school but it was because I feared a knee or ankle injury, I witnessed way too many people blowing out a knee and then trying to play with a brace. 

Mich asked about where people fall on the "risk averse" spectrum, so I thought I'd use this example to clarify my position on how risk averse I'd be.  I wouldn't discourage my kids from playing a sport if the only risks were nonbrain risks like knee or ankle injuries, even though I know both knee and ankle injuries are painful and can limit mobility and cause pain for life.  I currently participate in sports where I have broken bones, and when that happens, I wrap the cast in plastic and keep playing.  (I still laugh when I think how horrified my orthopedic doc was when I came for my six week checkup for a broken foot - he said the only other person who he'd seen put such wear on an air cast was the local alligator trapper )  So the idea of pain or injury isn't enough to influence my decision making.

I draw the line at brain injury.  Especially since, as grumpyhermit pointed out, the evidence suggests that it's not just concussions that appear to cause CTE.  Just the repetitive trauma of repeated subconcussive hits is a factor.

So I guess that's my line... my kids getting physically hurt isn't something I want but not something I'd fight to avoid.  My kids doing something where even if it's done "safely" according to current standards they're putting their brain through trauma and increasing risk for CTE... nope.

[milee]

Nov 27, 2016 15:52:54 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Nov 27, 2016 15:42:00 GMT -5 milee said:

Within the next few years, hopefully there will be more conclusive data so people can make decisions about risk. 

The decisions I'd make as an adult would probably be different than those I'd make for my children.  Although I'd probably be considered at the "free range" end of the parenting spectrum, I think it's my job to get my kids to adulthood without brain damage so I would not let them participate in activities with a high risk of concussion or brain damage; what they choose as adults will be up to them and their priorities.  As an adult, I accept a fair amount of injury risk in my activities but definitely try to do whatever I can to protect my brain function since it's how I make my living and for me is a huge part of my quality of life.  

IMHO, the problem we have when looking at the CTE issue is that bottom line - people enjoy sports.  They enjoy watching them, they have family traditions based around them, they view them as a huge part of their life.  It's inconceivable to them that these sports might be so detrimental, so like we all do with things that we can't reconcile, they explain away or justify the risks because the consequences are too awful to face.

But it doesn't matter, for some.  Playing football (and why are you demonizing other sports?) increases your risk, and there is always someone who is willing to accept those risks, regardless of what the number is.  Putting an exact number on it (and I seriously doubt you can do this) isn't going to change the attitude.  

Where do you draw the line?  It is easy to demonize football, but I suspect that more than one figure skater, gymnast, equestrian, skier, etc. has dealt with multiple concussions.  The only difference is that (1) skaters and gymnasts usually leave the competitive field much earlier and (2) they don't get the same kind of publicity.

Part of where I think we draw the line is whether or not children can participate.  If adults are fully aware of the risks and want to participate, then that should be their choice (and another reason I don't want government involved in healthcare - let them make their choice and pay for their own medical care that results.)  But right now, not only are children participating in these sports, but in many cases the schools have no incentive to stop or change the sport because the school is making money off it or the sport is so closely tied to the school tradition.  That's a problem.  It's hard to think of any other activity that's this risky for kids that we not only allow kids to participate, we encourage and make money off it.  Schools should be the first place that this comes to a stop. 

[siralynn]

I pretty much don't watch football anymore. I don't see a way to "fix" football, especially with the mounting evidence regarding sub-concussive hits.

I love watching hockey, which also has a concussion problem. But it's more fixable via rule changes. I'd love to see them get rid of the fighting, because it's pointless and just hurts people. They also need to be better about enforcing penalties/suspensions for dangerous hits. But you can play entertaining, exciting hockey with some body contact without the routine, every play head trauma that football has.

[NastyWoman]

Nov 27, 2016 15:20:38 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

...
I would rather have my kids out playing sports than sitting around playing video games and getting fat.

My video game playing, couldn't care less about soccer, football, basketball, baseball, kid was never fat. Turns out we were offering the wrong activities. In college he picked up rock and ice climbing, white water kayaking (neither of which I consider risk free), and walking - as in walking the pilgrim route from the Netherlands to Santiago de Compostella during one summer break. 
Just saying...don't discount those computer nerds 

[justme]

Nov 27, 2016 16:23:13 GMT -5 siralynn said:

I pretty much don't watch football anymore. I don't see a way to "fix" football, especially with the mounting evidence regarding sub-concussive hits.

I love watching hockey, which also has a concussion problem. But it's more fixable via rule changes. I'd love to see them get rid of the fighting, because it's pointless and just hurts people. They also need to be better about enforcing penalties/suspensions for dangerous hits. But you can play entertaining, exciting hockey with some body contact without the routine, every play head trauma that football has.

From what I know, the younger leagues of hockey are also way less contact and fighting than the younger leagues of football. The harder hits and fighting don't start until they're teens from what I've seen.

Hell the kids league that plays during intermission sometimes at my minor league basically only have contact when one falls close to the other and it becomes a chain reaction. Young kids can't get up to enough speed on the skates yet or stay on the skates long enough.

[alabamagal]

Nov 27, 2016 15:44:16 GMT -5 Pants said:

Nov 27, 2016 15:20:38 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

My son had his first and worse concussion at age 8 in a car accident. We are not going to start driving kids around.

He had his 2nd one in a football game in 7th grade. This was 10 years ago when there was less awareness of concussions. His coaches recognized it and kept him out of rest of game and it was last game of the season. He didn't have any symptoms afterward so it was minor. His 3rd was senior year in football practice when his head hit ground. He had no symptoms afterward but was out for a week.

I think my sons first concussion which sent him to hospital made him more likely to have others. But I think there was a huge benefit to my son playing football. Fitness, teamwork, working through adversity.

I would rather have my kids out playing sports than sitting around playing video games and getting fat.

Football is not the only sport that would provide fitness, teamwork and working through adversity. Neither is the dichotomy "play football or sit around playing video games and get fat." There's a wide range of sports available that don't involve damaging ones brain that provide all of those things. 

Well my son also played baseball and tennis in high school.

Tennis is one sport you can play all your life Baseball is a group of teammates who make individual contributions. Football is way more of a team sport.

There is much more physical activity in football practice than in any other sport. Soccer and basketball are probably next. My son was on the chubby side at various times growing up. Senior year football he started out at 6'1" and 245. By the end of football season he had lost weight and grown and is now 6'3" and 205.

[milee]

Nov 27, 2016 19:08:59 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

Nov 27, 2016 15:44:16 GMT -5 Pants said:

Tennis is one sport you can play all your life 

The funny thing is that as an adult the single biggest source of serious sports injuries among all my friends is ... tennis.  

Few of them play football any more, some play basketball, a fair number play baseball, a lot of them run, a lot of them do Crossfit or other boot camp type training, a lot of them sail, about half of them golf  , and a lot of them play tennis.  Tennis seems to be the great slayer of older weekend warriors out of that entire list.  I had an orthopedic surgeon friend who injured his back badly enough in a tennis mishap that he couldn't do surgery for a half year and it almost ended his career.  Another woman fell and broke both her wrists so couldn't even wash her own hair for 8 weeks much less take care of her three kids.  The list goes on... tennis is dangerous for us older folks.  

[Pants]

Nov 27, 2016 19:08:59 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

Nov 27, 2016 15:44:16 GMT -5 Pants said:

Football is not the only sport that would provide fitness, teamwork and working through adversity. Neither is the dichotomy "play football or sit around playing video games and get fat." There's a wide range of sports available that don't involve damaging ones brain that provide all of those things. 

Well my son also played baseball and tennis in high school.

Tennis is one sport you can play all your life Baseball is a group of teammates who make individual contributions. Football is way more of a team sport.

There is much more physical activity in football practice than in any other sport. Soccer and basketball are probably next. My son was on the chubby side at various times growing up. Senior year football he started out at 6'1" and 245. By the end of football season he had lost weight and grown and is now 6'3" and 205.

K. I don't see how any of that contradicts what i said. Also a quick google says that both swimming and just running burn more calories than playing a football game, so i'm unsure that your point about more physical activity is accurate.

[whoisjohngalt]

I would not allow my kids play football.  I don't get that game at all. 

And I am soooooo tired of hearing how "kids need to play team sports, it's so good for them".  Like there is no other way for them to learn how to cooperate with others without hitting each other or hitting a ball.

On a side note - I've been binge watching Ballers and I like the show.

[TheOtherMe]

Nov 27, 2016 19:25:53 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

I would not allow my kids play football.  I don't get that game at all. 

And I am soooooo tired of hearing how "kids need to play team sports, it's so good for them".  Like there is no other way for them to learn how to cooperate with others without hitting each other or hitting a ball.

 

My family knows two men who committed suicide.  Autopsies of their brains showed CTE.  Both played college football and briefly in the NFL.

If I had kids, there would be no football for them.  CTE shows up later in life.  It might not show up for years.  Why risk it?

[haapai]

I may be small, female and quite uninterested in American football but I'm fairly convinced that it's going the way of boxing and horse-racing.  I can't give you a guesstimate of a timeline but I will say this.  I am 47 years old and when I was young, Muhammed Ali and Willie Shoemaker were household names and heroes.  They both appeared constantly on talk shows, radio interviews, and print articles and nobody said a darned thing about how the sport in which they excelled gobbled up young men, used them mostly for the profit of others, and then discarded them, often after considerable damage had been done to both their bodies and their minds.  I can't tell you how long football will last, or what the demise will look like, but I'm definitely sensing that it is on it's way out. 

[milee]

I'm just thinking more about how weird it is that this hadn't been an issue in schools yet, especially high schools.  

I think our local schools are crazy cauldrons of overprotective helicopter parents.  I can't state how overprotective and risk averse the schools are, probably in response to these parents.  Heck, when some parents wanted to encourage more kids to walk to school and formed a "walking school bus" to make it fun and encourage groups, there was great concern about safety to the point it was ridiculous.  Instead of a group of kids and a few parents just gathering and walking to school on sidewalks beside relatively low traffic volume roads, it was turned into a big, hairy deal with permission slips, a formal signup each day, 2 to 1 chaperone ratio and all participants required to wear neon reflective safety vests.      

Middle and high schoolers aren't allowed to just "be" on campus unless it's school hours +/- 30 minutes or in a teacher chaperoned, preapproved group event.  So, unlike when we were in school, a group of students can't simply sit at a picnic table outside and study together for an hour after school.  They're considered unchaperoned and "for their safety" the parents or social services will be called.  This is on the campus of a magnet school that rarely has discipline issues and regularly sends 1/4 of its graduating class to Ivies each year and 100% to college.

Our schools make mountains out of relative molehills, yet nobody's concerned we have school sponsored entertainment that's pulverizing the kids' brain into mush?  Seems odd.