|
Post by mookie1 on Mar 19, 2011 15:46:28 GMT -5
Hello all! I am a virgin poster so please bear with me. I am in the process of writing a memoir concerning my battles in the post divorce court. I am interested in the input of any divorcees who had problems with the actual adherence to the order of the court concerning their separation agreement/divorce decree. Mainly I am attempting to determine how common it is to return to court repeatedly due to an ex-spouse failing to comply with what was agreed upon originally.
In a nutshell, my ex, who has had a six-figure income since our divorce, currently owes me over 200k in support arrearage, property settlement, and I am being hounded by the IRS for a debt that I was to be "held harmless of" to the tune of $150k plus penalties and interest.
This has dragged on for four years now and the system is a complete failure in my eyes.
Has anyone had similar experiences in which the court did not uphold its own orders? Please elaborate; your input is greatly appreciated.
|
|
Artemis Windsong
Senior Associate
The love in me salutes the love in you. M. Williamson
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:32:12 GMT -5
Posts: 12,320
Today's Mood: Twinkling
Location: Wishing Star
Favorite Drink: Fresh, clean cold bottled water.
|
Post by Artemis Windsong on Mar 19, 2011 16:50:51 GMT -5
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,868
|
Post by zibazinski on Mar 19, 2011 17:12:30 GMT -5
I have found that it usually costs more in fees than you ever get and it is best to get EVERYTHING you can BEFORE the ink is dry because you'll NEVER get it afterwards. The only ones who get rich in divorce are attorneys. As far as what you owe, the IRS and mortgage companies and CC companies do not CARE who is SUPPOSED to pay legally, they just want their money any way they can get it and if it's from you, oh, well.
|
|
|
Post by isabella on Mar 19, 2011 17:23:37 GMT -5
yep, what zibazinski said.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 11, 2024 21:30:26 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2011 17:34:56 GMT -5
I'll third what zibazinski said. My strategy was not to give up an real money up front (e.g., part of my retirement accounts) in return for promises from my Ex to pay anything in the future. That meant no child support, but it also meant I could keep the investments in my name. I picked up and went on to provide a good life for DS and am now happily remarried.
Oh, yeah- I always prepared the taxes, so I knew there would be no issues with them.
|
|
|
Post by mookie1 on Mar 19, 2011 17:56:56 GMT -5
thanks for your help everybody!!! i forgot to mention that i have worked in the legal system for 27 years and still could not help matters. My reasons for my proposed book are to enlighten people who have no clue how messed up the divorce process really is and as stated above to be prepared to do whatever it takes to get what you deserve before going into court.
I am interested in anecdotes so as not to be accusing my particular county of being inept!
|
|
❤ mollymouser ❤
Senior Associate
Sarcasm is my Superpower
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 16:09:58 GMT -5
Posts: 12,858
Today's Mood: Gen X ... so I'm sarcastic and annoyed
Location: Central California
Favorite Drink: Diet Mountain Dew
|
Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Mar 19, 2011 18:29:45 GMT -5
Mainly I am attempting to determine how common it is to return to court repeatedly due to an ex-spouse failing to comply with what was agreed upon originally.
|
|
|
Post by mookie1 on Mar 19, 2011 19:02:57 GMT -5
that is horrible but does happen all the time!! my atty just told me at our last meeting that the best case scenario for my ex would be my death; it gave me chills especially after all the episodes of "Snapped" I have watched. I really wish the courts would stop letting these deadbeats get away with this stuff and force them to do what they are supposed to or throw them in jail if even for a weekend!
|
|
TheOtherMe
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:40:52 GMT -5
Posts: 27,245
Mini-Profile Name Color: e619e6
|
Post by TheOtherMe on Mar 19, 2011 19:20:44 GMT -5
The divorce decree means nothing to your creditors or the IRS. Any tax return that you signed, you are as liable for as he is.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 11, 2024 21:30:26 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2011 19:30:11 GMT -5
Check with your local Women's Centre. I bet they have the stastics for you.
|
|
t-dog
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 17, 2011 13:46:06 GMT -5
Posts: 2,016
|
Post by t-dog on Mar 19, 2011 23:10:24 GMT -5
Have you filed for a wage garnishment. Here the DA's office handles it for child support issues.
|
|
Apple
Junior Associate
Always travel with a sense of humor
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 15:51:04 GMT -5
Posts: 9,938
Mini-Profile Name Color: dc0e29
|
Post by Apple on Mar 20, 2011 4:53:17 GMT -5
I was young when I got my divorce and, while we had a house, we didn't have much money. I'd just finished the first year of a two year program that would lead to my current, well paying, employment. He was a construction worker that just got off his second long unemployment. By the divorce agreement he is supposed to pay half of DS's medical fees (not too many, but he did have to have eye surgery in kindergarten/first grade and now glasses. Fortunately I have good insurance) and half the cost of insuring him. He also pays child support. The agreement was written that he would pay the mortgage for two years while I "rented" the house from him for exactly half the mortgage payment (he lived/worked out of town, we had bought the house together). The idea was that I'd have a place to live for cheap rent while finishing school (I worked 30+ hours a week) and then use the last year to save money for a down payment on my own place. He was also to carry a minimum of $500k in life insurance payable to me until DS is 18--he let it lapse within a month. None of it worked out as planned.
He never made a single mortgage payment, I paid the full bill to keep my credit rating up. He wouldn't refinance it so my name would have taken a hit if I didn't. He's never paid a cent toward any medical fees with DS. Child support was garnished and when he changed jobs I was the one that had to track down the name of his new employer before I could receive support again. He was still having his paycheck mailed to the house and would pick it up on the weekend. The house thing got me mad enough I told him refinance it or give it to me (same deal I made, no principle, no cash, just sign it over). He said he would but wouldn't get the deed notorized. So I finally resorted to "extorsion". I told him he got the deed notorized or he did not get his paycheck. It was 12:30 on a Saturday, the only notary public working that day was done at 1:00. He was living paycheck to paycheck so without it he couldn't get gas to go back to his town (his gf was a druggie so that's where all her money and much of his went). The rest I just dropped, it's less stressful that way. We haven't seen him in years (he's seen DS twice in about 10 years now) and I have a list of demands he'll need to meet before he sees DS again (one is he must pay for a year's worth of therapy for DS, in advance. It crushed my son the last time he saw him, made promises to keep in touch and disappeared for the third time). He'll have to take me to court if he doesn't.
I can't make the courts make him uphold his obligations. Even trying would cost me too much (it cost $1000 to get DS a passport just because of the legal work involved with an absent parent, even though I have full custody). So I just forget about him for the most part, don't depend on a CS check but am pleasantly shocked I'm still getting them regularly and take care of everything else myself.
|
|
Nazgul Girl
Junior Associate
Babysitting our new grandbaby 3 days a week !
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 23:25:02 GMT -5
Posts: 5,913
Today's Mood: excellent
|
Post by Nazgul Girl on Mar 20, 2011 6:47:41 GMT -5
There is another aspect to attorneys getting murdered which seems to be getting missed here. Attorneys charge extortionate rates. Anyone who thinks that their work is worth $300 per hour or more is fooling themselves. Trials drag on for years due to legal maneuverings. Ordinary people who make $12 to $25 an hour don't stand a chance, and get desperate. I know, because it's happened to us, although not in a divorce situation. A few people out there are truly nuts, and are going to pop some attorney involved. I wouldn't resort to something like that, but I can see how it happens. And, I happen to like most attorneys.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,868
|
Post by zibazinski on Mar 20, 2011 8:39:50 GMT -5
My ex likes to hold "hostage" tax info I need to file DD's tax returns. I decided I would ask once then tell my tax guy to just "make something up" as best he could and if the IRS checked, I'd tell them that the EX is holding it hostage as well as ratting him out with his drug money lifestyle that a 30k a year job doesn't fund!!!!
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 11, 2024 21:30:26 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 9:06:38 GMT -5
The agreement was written that he would pay the mortgage for two years while I "rented" the house from him for exactly half the mortgage payment (he lived/worked out of town, we had bought the house together). <snip>He never made a single mortgage payment, I paid the full bill to keep my credit rating up. He wouldn't refinance it so my name would have taken a hit if I didn't. Lawyers who allow their clients to accept agreements such as this should be disbarred. It takes an extremely rare, honorable person to keep up payments on joint debts after the divorce. I've seen too many sad stories about couples who divorced and kept the house with the agreement that an ex-spouse would keep paying the mortgage even though they no longer lived there, or an ex-spouse would be allowed to occupy the house and would refinance in just their own name within a year but never did, etc. My attorney told me you can't withhold visitation as "blackmail" for unpaid child support or any other monetary reasons. You have my sympathy- my Ex also slunk away after the divorce, but DS was 12 and it was almost a relief that his Dad was no longer around tormenting us. If your DS needs therapy, I hope you get it for him- it's hard to raise a boy without a father.
|
|
|
Post by mtshastawriter on Mar 20, 2011 9:47:24 GMT -5
After a very long battle over non-disclosure of the serious problems with our property, I will never use the legal system or an attorney for anything. Ever. Period.
In the end, we spent about $30K in legal fees and walked away with about $40K off of our property price. The extra $10K was not worth the constant stress and aggravation that the lawsuit caused in our lives.
In our case, it took 3 attorneys to find one willing to sue local realtors for their part and we finally had to hire one who was 80 miles away. Everyone was "you have a great case" until we went to a settlement hearing, about $29K into the legal process, where we were told to basically take what we could get.
I did complain to the Bar Association about the second attorney who billed over $5K for "phone call to other attorney - no answer" for just about every day he worked. Never talked to anyone or did anything, but he was certain we got billed for something every working day he had... As expected, we got zero response from the Bar...
|
|
|
Post by mookie1 on Mar 20, 2011 9:52:25 GMT -5
my ex remarried works out of town but his wife lives near me because she has shared parenting w her ex so she cannot leave the area; he uses her for putting checking accts etc in her name so i I cant attach anything; I am also responsible for tracking down his new employers and chasing him around trying to get jim served with contempt papers but the court sees all of this and does nothing. Child support enforcement is useless because they dont enforce anything and you have to be downright rude to even get them to return your call!!!! How can we get this system to change???
|
|
Gardening Grandma
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:39:46 GMT -5
Posts: 17,962
|
Post by Gardening Grandma on Mar 20, 2011 10:54:28 GMT -5
My son divorced two years ago. He has custody and his ex has minimal visitation (every other weekend). She has routinely thumbed her nose at the parenting plan. She has canceled her weekends at the last minute citing work then wanted them on his weekends to make up.
They were each supposed to have the kids for one week over the two week Christmas vacation. She took them and refused to bring them back.
After the Christmas debacle, he took her to court for contempt. The judge found that she was in contempt and ordered her to pay his attorney's fees for that hearing. Since then, she's been better about following the parenting plan.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,868
|
Post by zibazinski on Mar 20, 2011 11:07:00 GMT -5
The legal system is designed to screw the innocent and protect the guilty.
|
|
servant_of_dog
Established Member
Just file it under "who cares".
Joined: Jan 21, 2011 0:50:52 GMT -5
Posts: 441
|
Post by servant_of_dog on Mar 20, 2011 11:07:57 GMT -5
No joint property, no kids, gave the ex everything except my chef's knives and whatever clothing fit in two suitcases, and the damn lawyer still forgot to file the motion for divorce with the court. We had to repeatedly contact him to do that before the deadline. All for the low low price of $2400. For 30 min of face-time and some paperwork. I can't imagine how difficult it is for people with so much more at stake.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,868
|
Post by zibazinski on Mar 20, 2011 12:02:19 GMT -5
It amazes me that women knowing the man is already a deadbeat with former kid would knowingly breed another with such a person. Why do women have such low self esteem? Thank GOD DD tells these losers to get lost.
|
|
Plain Old Petunia
Senior Member
bloom where you are planted
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 2:09:44 GMT -5
Posts: 4,840
|
Post by Plain Old Petunia on Mar 20, 2011 12:09:07 GMT -5
my ex remarried works out of town but his wife lives near me because she has shared parenting w her ex so she cannot leave the area; he uses her for putting checking accts etc in her name so i I cant attach anything; I am also responsible for tracking down his new employers and chasing him around trying to get jim served with contempt papers but the court sees all of this and does nothing. Child support enforcement is useless because they dont enforce anything and you have to be downright rude to even get them to return your call!!!! How can we get this system to change??? In California, businesses have 20 days from date of hire to report new hires to the state. The state uses this info to check for garnishments of all kinds. The new employer is notified and payroll withholding begins. I think it is a pretty good system.
|
|
Plain Old Petunia
Senior Member
bloom where you are planted
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 2:09:44 GMT -5
Posts: 4,840
|
Post by Plain Old Petunia on Mar 20, 2011 12:16:39 GMT -5
No joint property, no kids, gave the ex everything except my chef's knives and whatever clothing fit in two suitcases, and the damn lawyer still forgot to file the motion for divorce with the court. We had to repeatedly contact him to do that before the deadline. All for the low low price of $2400. For 30 min of face-time and some paperwork. I can't imagine how difficult it is for people with so much more at stake. My ex and I were married for 18 years, we had 2 kids, a house with equity, bank accounts, retirement accounts, he has a fat pension. We worked out our own property settlement, split the bank accounts, closed joint accounts, refinanced the house into his name (title too), all before using a paralegal to file the paperwork. We paid $595 for the divorce and $1000 for a QDRO. It was very easy, because we were able to agree.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,335
Member is Online
|
Post by swamp on Mar 20, 2011 12:27:53 GMT -5
No Court order in the world can make someone act like a decent human being.
I'm a lawyer and I used to do divorces. I stopped doing them because I found that most people had unrealistic expectations of what the legal system could or would do, and were expecting the judge to reward them for being a good spouse and punish the other spouse, even though I repeatedly told them that they needed to look at the divorce as a business dissolution, adn the judge really doesn't care who slept with whom, or who didn't sleep with whom, or who called who a fat bitch or went fishing instead of to their kids birthday party.
I also refused to fight about "stuff." I cared about maintenance, pensions, houses, bank accounts, vehicles, and significant debt. Give him the stupid beanie baby collection already!
|
|
TD2K
Senior Associate
Once you kill a cow, you gotta make a burger
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 1:19:25 GMT -5
Posts: 10,931
|
Post by TD2K on Mar 20, 2011 12:43:57 GMT -5
The there was the couple that fought to the death over some needle points -- they each ended up taking one and wanted to work out "joint custody" of the third....
Those arguments get down to power trips who is going to show the other IMO or as Swamp says, to use the legal process to 'teach' the other person something. My parents have had a couple of sets of friends who have spent small fortunes during their divorce on lawyers disputing anything and everything.
|
|
Gardening Grandma
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:39:46 GMT -5
Posts: 17,962
|
Post by Gardening Grandma on Mar 20, 2011 12:56:46 GMT -5
The there was the couple that fought to the death over some needle points -- they each ended up taking one and wanted to work out "joint custody" of the third.... Those arguments get down to power trips who is going to show the other IMO or as Swamp says, to use the legal process to 'teach' the other person something. My parents have had a couple of sets of friends who have spent small fortunes during their divorce on lawyers disputing anything and everything. Remember the movie "War of the Roses"?
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,335
Member is Online
|
Post by swamp on Mar 20, 2011 12:58:11 GMT -5
There is another aspect to attorneys getting murdered which seems to be getting missed here. Attorneys charge extortionate rates. Anyone who thinks that their work is worth $300 per hour or more is fooling themselves. Trials drag on for years due to legal maneuverings. Ordinary people who make $12 to $25 an hour don't stand a chance, and get desperate. I know, because it's happened to us, although not in a divorce situation. A few people out there are truly nuts, and are going to pop some attorney involved. I wouldn't resort to something like that, but I can see how it happens. And, I happen to like most attorneys. It costs about $60 per hour to run my office, and I'm in a partnership in a LCOL area with only 3 support staff. I can't imagine what the overhead in HCOL areas is.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,335
Member is Online
|
Post by swamp on Mar 20, 2011 12:59:06 GMT -5
The there was the couple that fought to the death over some needle points -- they each ended up taking one and wanted to work out "joint custody" of the third.... Those arguments get down to power trips who is going to show the other IMO or as Swamp says, to use the legal process to 'teach' the other person something. My parents have had a couple of sets of friends who have spent small fortunes during their divorce on lawyers disputing anything and everything. Remember the movie "War of the Roses"? That movie made me sick. I couldn't watch it.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 11, 2024 21:30:26 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 13:12:12 GMT -5
We worked out our own property settlement, split the bank accounts, closed joint accounts, refinanced the house into his name (title too), all before using a paralegal to file the paperwork. We paid $595 for the divorce and $1000 for a QDRO. It was very easy, because we were able to agree. While going through my divorce I'd read a very good book called "Between Love and Hate", which advocated mediation for the property settlement. The book encouraged you to decide what was most important that you HAD to get out of the settlement and let the rest go. None of the "you had the affair so I get the sterling silver" attitude. My Ex and I did develop the settlement ourselves, in meetings with our lawyers and his Aunt (who came to hold his hand but whom both lawyers respected). I really liked my lawyer- we were a good team, and I also had a psychologist, so I wasn't expecting the lawyer to do psychotherapy. Anyway, my divorce was more like $7,000 and I let go of a lot fo stuff, but it was worth it. And after that, my lawyer quit doing divorces. She was wonderful at dealing with sleaze and dishonesty without lowering herself to the same level, but I think she just got tired of it. Interesting coincidence: "War of the Roses" was on last night. I could find humor in the first half but when it got to the parts where she nearly killed him by barricading him in the sauna and he sawed the heels off all her designer shoes, I turned it off. After awhile it was just too ugly- but a good cautionary tale about what happens when they're both hung up on keeping Stuff and neither party will yield.
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Mar 20, 2011 14:04:44 GMT -5
It amazes me that women knowing the man is already a deadbeat with former kid would knowingly breed another with such a person. Why do women have such low self esteem? Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=finance&action=display&thread=5044&page=1#ixzz1HASwOE8GWhy women date losers while ignoring nice, stable, hard working men is one of the great mysteries of the universe. I've seen it time and time again and it never makes any sense. My loser cousin who dropped out of high school, has had a kid who he doesn't support, and is continuously unemployed has better luck with women than I do. Best I can guess is many women like to feel useful, helpful and needed. If you find a loser who doesn't have their act together they need your help, and thus you are needed. Perhaps it plays on some sort of maternal instict to have a "project" instead of a partner. Perhaps a lot of women are worried if they find a hard working guy who is self sufficient, they may leave because the partner really isn't needed. That's my best guess anyway.
|
|