janee
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Post by janee on Sept 23, 2016 9:08:03 GMT -5
HI All,
I have a small business, 2 partners and two employees, so a total of 5 of us. My newest employee just had a baby 5 weeks ago and will be coming back to work Oct. 12. She sent me a link last night asking if I was aware of this:
www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs73.htm#.UMD6ZpPjmaM
It's basically the Fair Standards Labor Act. I'm not sure what to do and would like some guidance. I did ask my employee if she had any suggestions thinking if she's already thought of a solution, I would use that!
We rent office space in a small lawyer's office. We have 4 offices, one is the sales office with 3 cubicles. The offices have windows on two sides (one to the outside and one to the interior of the lawyer's office.) so it's not private by any means. So I need to figure out a place for her to pump breast milk. It may end up being a pop-up tent that is 4'x4'x 7' high. We can put a small table and chair in there. There are no private offices in our space. I can let her use my office and go use her desk but she'd still have to use the tent as the windows are on two sides.
She's a sales rep, salary plus commission so breaks/lunches are paid. How noisy is the pump? How often does the mom need to use it, can it be scheduled or does it have to be available on demand? How long does it take?
Can you tell I don't have children? I want to make this work but need more info to help figure out a solution. Thanks so much.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 23, 2016 9:21:19 GMT -5
Pumps are not that noisy. As to how often a mom needs to use it that really depends on the mother because everyone's supply is different. I could pump 3 times a day and be just fine, another woman may need to pump twice that many, another woman may be able to do less.
Ideally you pump on schedule because you have to keep your supply constant. However we all know work doesn't always cooperate and you will be expected to stay put/finish a project. So having something available in case her schedule changes would be nice.
Could she borrow an office? Is there a break room with a lock on the door or a "broom" closet? The person I replaced in my current lab used the abandoned dark room across the hall as her pumping station since it has a lock and a bench/chair.
Basically the rules are so women aren't expected to go pump in the bathroom stalls. As long as where ever she ends up is private and has a place for her to place the pump/sit down you are fine.
Some places around campus don't have the ability to be locked so they had signs available for women to hang up that said "Nursing in session do not disturb" so people would not walk in.
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 23, 2016 9:25:25 GMT -5
The pumps are not silent, so a tent could be awkward. Also, the vast majority of them need a power outlet, so that's another consideration. How often and how long it takes varies by person and changes over time. So in the beginning she might need to pump 3-5 times a day and it might take a while (and if she's nervous or feeling uncomfortable sitting in a tent where others can hear her, it will take even longer), but after a while she might be able to pump only a couple times a day and it happen more quickly to boot. In the beginning, though, don't be surprised if each session takes 20-30 minutes.
Unless she's an unreasonable type, I'd ask her for her ideas on what might work.
I'm out and about now but have more ideas (you may not even be subject to some of the DOL requirements based on the size of your business), and will post more later. I had my first son when I was still a consultant working long hours often at remote client locations, so I pumped in various office environments for a little over a year.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 23, 2016 9:26:01 GMT -5
I pumped in my car, in the locker room, in empty offices, in my boss' office, and eventually in my own office with a set up similar to what you are listing. I hung a curtain on my interior window, put a do not disturb sign with a picture of a cow being milked and pumped at my desk. Before I had the curtain I sat facing the back corner of my office with a large filing cabinet next to me and pumped under a cover. Paper screens would have worked for me as well, although I am admittedly not very shy when it comes to nursing/pumping.
Does the building have any conference rooms that she could use so you're not trying to change offices? That would be harder on me than just pumping at a cubicle.
Pumps definitely make noise, but its not loud. Its like a pulsing whirring noise. It's not loud enough to really disturb anyone, and if someone is really sensitive I think they could put some music on to drown it out.
She'll probably need to pump 3 times a day, about 15-30 minutes each time. Keeping to a schedule will probably be ideal for the new mom, although it can take a while to get into what schedule works best.
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 23, 2016 9:26:51 GMT -5
Btw, curtains in a room are a lot easier and less awkward than a tent...
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 23, 2016 9:29:32 GMT -5
If we had not had pump rooms available on campus when Gwen was born I was going to be allowed to use the conference room since it had curtains and a lock. We considered the supply closet too.
They make battery operated pumps. I had one with Abby. Life was so much easier when I could pump literally anywhere I wanted to without having to worry about a power source. I wish I had purchased one with Gwen.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 23, 2016 9:29:43 GMT -5
Janee-does any of the below apply to your business, especially the highlighted section? From hour provided link.
Only employees who are not exempt from section 7, which includes the FLSA’s overtime pay requirements, are entitled to breaks to express milk. While employers are not required under the FLSA to provide breaks to nursing mothers who are exempt from the requirements of Section 7, they may be obligated to provide such breaks under State laws.
Employers with fewer than 50 employees are not subject to the FLSA break time requirement if compliance with the provision would impose an undue hardship. Whether compliance would be an undue hardship is determined by looking at the difficulty or expense of compliance for a specific employer in comparison to the size, financial resources, nature, and structure of the employer’s business. All employees who work for the covered employer, regardless of work site, are counted when determining whether this exemption may apply.
Employers are not required under the FLSA to compensate nursing mothers for breaks taken for the purpose of expressing milk. However, where employers already provide compensated breaks, an employee who uses that break time to express milk must be compensated in the same way that other employees are compensated for break time. In addition, the FLSA’s general requirement that the employee must be completely relieved from duty or else the time must be compensated as work time applies
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 23, 2016 9:31:19 GMT -5
You are handing it way better than I would have (unless there is more to the story)
I think you are going above and beyond for this woman. Did she even have an actual conversation with you before sending you this link?? Did she not see the space of your office before having her kid?
I think women handle pumping very differently. I didn't work and said many times that I wouldn't have been able to pump at work - I needed a whole set up. My friend, on another hand, pumped in an office she shared with a guy. There is a woman who pumped while running a marathon.
FTR, I didn't have a regular schedule and was fine.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Sept 23, 2016 9:34:07 GMT -5
Yeah, you're probably exempt, but if you can work with her, then that would be best to keep goodwill.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 9:35:45 GMT -5
I always just pumped in my van even through the winter. I was more comfortable doing that then taking a conference room.
When I started it was 3 times a day for about 15 minutes each. After a month or two I went down to two and then for a long time after that just over lunch. I never had supply issues and was established enough at that point that I could pump enough in one sitting.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Sept 23, 2016 9:39:04 GMT -5
If you read through the link sent, it clearly does not apply to places with fewer than 50 employees.
But I think you should try to make reasonable accommodations, and it sounds like that is your plan. I would invite her to meet with you about a week prior to her return to discuss options and hopefully it will be something you can both agree upon. I would definitely do this before you purchase any tents or curtains.
Good luck!
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Sept 23, 2016 9:46:27 GMT -5
You are handing it way better than I would have (unless there is more to the story) I think you are going above and beyond for this woman. Did she even have an actual conversation with you before sending you this link?? Did she not see the space of your office before having her kid? I think women handle pumping very differently. I didn't work and said many times that I wouldn't have been able to pump at work - I needed a whole set up. My friend, on another hand, pumped in an office she shared with a guy. There is a woman who pumped while running a marathon. FTR, I didn't have a regular schedule and was fine. I have to say I was thinking the same thing. This seems like something that would have been discussed prior to her having the baby and going on leave. I'm dead curious what the email said and how this was framed up. I don't know why it would be strange to try to accommodate an employee for a relatively temporary need. Can one or both of you explain your logic?
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janee
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Post by janee on Sept 23, 2016 9:46:41 GMT -5
Thanks for all the responses and help. My partners and I all have private offices but they are not "private" as there are the windows. While not ideal, I can switch offices. I can check with the landlord to see if I can put up a roller shade or curtains on the windows that look into the other office. It will Literally, there is no other space not used. There is a room that the A/C ducts are in but it is junky and I would not want to go there.
If we did go the tent route, she could close my office door so it would not be noisy for her or interfere with other workers.
Thanks for the responses so far!
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siralynn
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Post by siralynn on Sept 23, 2016 9:50:33 GMT -5
Once she gets comfortable pumping, she'll probably need ~3 times/day for 15-20 min. A mini-fridge being available would be helpful, because then she can just stick her pump parts in there instead of cleaning them everytime.
Some pumps are noisier than others. Personally I'd feel uncomfortable pumping in an area where I felt like other people could overhear me (I'm totally comfortable nursing in public without a cover, but pumping seems strangely more intimate, as nonsensical as that may be). The tent sounds a little weird to me; curtains on one of the offices sound like a better option.
Ideally this would have been discussed before your employee went out on leave, but if this is the first baby, things can be overwhelming and you can cut her some slack for not having thought through everything ahead of time. You're almost certainly exempt from the federal regulations, but if this is a valuable employee it would be good to work with her. Ultimately, the time she needs pumping accommodations (a few months to about a year depending on how long she plans to breastfeed) will likely be a small amount of time if your overall working relationship.
Is there any chance that there is other space within the building that you rent in? Might be worth asking your landlord. Maybe other employers have encountered the same problem and she can share a space that others have used.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 23, 2016 10:01:44 GMT -5
I have to say I was thinking the same thing. This seems like something that would have been discussed prior to her having the baby and going on leave. I'm dead curious what the email said and how this was framed up. I don't know why it would be strange to try to accommodate an employee for a relatively temporary need. Can one or both of you explain your logic? Pretty much what Sroo said. I can understand citing law if an employer being unaccommodating or uncooperative. I don't understand the need to cite any laws as a opening to a conversation. ESPECIALLY since it doesn't even apply in this case. To me it would speak volumes about the employee - I would see her as argumentative, confrontational and frankly not very.....smart bc that's not how you build relationships, especially new ones, especially since the employer (OP) sounds very reasonable and flexible.
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janee
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Post by janee on Sept 23, 2016 10:03:05 GMT -5
I appreciate all the responses. I do think we are exempt but I am big believer in win-win solutions. If we can accommodate her, I will definitely do that. I'm just trying to brainstorm/figure out what's possible and reasonable.
We got together this week to see the baby. Since he's a screamer, so I had the new mom and another sales rep over to my house for lunch. With a small company, we try to be team oriented and supportive.
The email last night was: "Just came across this and wasn't sure if you are aware...? and then the link.
Honestly, it wasn't on my radar about nursing so I'm ok with getting the heads up. I emailed her last night saying: "No I was not aware. Usually fmla (which this is part of) doesn't apply to less than 50 employees. I'll call and find out for sure. How do you want to handle pumping at work? How loud is the pump, do you know? If you have some ideas let me know.
I also called her this morning and left a message but she hasn't called me back.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 23, 2016 10:05:29 GMT -5
Maybe she just found out about it? It's not something that's heavily advertised unlike FMLA.
I didn't know about it until I got handed the information by my OB. I wasn't even sure I wanted to pump so I wasn't going to start making arrangements with my boss over something that I wasn't going to need. It about two weeks before I was ready to return we started discussing logistics and we found out there were pumping stations all over campus.
Maybe the employee was thinking "Oh shit" and didn't want Janee to get in trouble for not complying with government mandates so sent the link to ask if she was aware.
Why does YM always assume the worst in people?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 23, 2016 10:07:30 GMT -5
Maybe she just found out about it? It's not something that's heavily advertised unlike FMLA. I didn't know about it until I got handed the information by my OB. I wasn't even sure I wanted to pump so I wasn't going to start making arrangements with my boss over something that I wasn't going to need. It wasn't till about two weeks before I was ready to return we started discussing logistics and I got reminded we have pumping stations all over campus. Maybe the employee was thinking "Oh shit" and didn't want Janee to get in trouble for not complying with government mandates so sent the link to ask if she was aware.Why does YM always assume the worst in people?
Or may be sees people for who they are since it doesn't apply to Janee's company??
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janee
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Post by janee on Sept 23, 2016 10:11:10 GMT -5
Yes, sending a legal link would not have been my first way to approach this but it somewhat fits her personality. There is a second story to the building so I'll ask the landlord if there is any empty offices we could use temporarily. I don't want to add cost if I can help it.
The junky room is really bad, even cleaning it up would not work. It has building supplies, janitorial supplies, it's loud (from the AC/Heater unit) and dirty. It's not our space so I just can't go in there and throw things out.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 23, 2016 10:11:25 GMT -5
janee-Not sure what FMLA has to do with this 'new' employee, but does the emplyee meet these requirements for FMLA eligibility? "Employees are eligible for leave if they have worked for their employer at least 12 months, at least 1,250 hours over the past 12 months, and work at a location where the company employs 50 or more employees within 75 miles. Whether an employee has worked the minimum 1,250 hours of service is determined according to FLSA principles for determining compensable hours or work."
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Sept 23, 2016 10:16:19 GMT -5
Yes, sending a legal link would not have been my first way to approach this but it somewhat fits her personality. There is a second story to the building so I'll ask the landlord if there is any empty offices we could use temporarily. I don't want to add cost if I can help it.
The junky room is really bad, even cleaning it up would not work. It has building supplies, janitorial supplies, it's loud (from the AC/Heater unit) and dirty. It's not our space so I just can't go in there and throw things out. Have you discussed this issue with the lawyers office that you rent your space from? They may be able to suggest a workable solution and/or have a nursing mothers room? The organization that I work for rents some of our space out to other organizations, and we have office space and/or conference room space that can be blocked off for this sort of use. So you may want to ask if you haven't already.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Sept 23, 2016 10:31:30 GMT -5
To me it would speak volumes about the employee - I would see her as argumentative, confrontational and frankly not very.....smart bc that's not how you build relationships, especially new ones, especially since the employer (OP) sounds very reasonable and flexible. Really? Usually, I agree with you, not today.. There's no handbook on how a new parent is supposed to parent with grace and dignity. If the baby is a screamer, I'm guessing the baby isn't easy. I think even miss manners would give an exception to a sleep deprived new mom.
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janee
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Post by janee on Sept 23, 2016 10:33:54 GMT -5
janee -Not sure what FMLA has to do with this 'new' employee, but does the emplyee meet these requirements for FMLA eligibility? "Employees are eligible for leave if they have worked for their employer at least 12 months, at least 1,250 hours over the past 12 months, and work at a location where the company employs 50 or more employees within 75 miles. Whether an employee has worked the minimum 1,250 hours of service is determined according to FLSA principles for determining compensable hours or work." No, she was hired in February. Thanks for this for the actual rule.
We went through the interview process and she was the one we thought would be the best fit. In googling her name, we saw a reference to her being pregnant. When I called to offer her the job, I told her I knew she was pregnant but in the grand scheme of things, her being out for maternity leave would be a small blip of time in what I hoped would be a long work relationship. We also discussed that it would have to be unpaid. I also told her since we are a small company to please not accept the position if she wasn't planning on coming back as it would set us back to far in our expansion plans. (it was a new position).
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Sept 23, 2016 10:34:21 GMT -5
no - janee doesn't legally have to accommodate this woman, but if she can IMO she should. THAT's how you increase employee morale and loyalty.
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janee
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Post by janee on Sept 23, 2016 10:36:12 GMT -5
To me it would speak volumes about the employee - I would see her as argumentative, confrontational and frankly not very.....smart bc that's not how you build relationships, especially new ones, especially since the employer (OP) sounds very reasonable and flexible. Really? Usually, I agree with you, not today.. There's no handbook on how a new parent is supposed to parent with grace and dignity. If the baby is a screamer, I'm guessing the baby isn't easy. I think even miss manners would give an exception to a sleep deprived new mom. Yes, I guessing coming back to work will actually be a lot less work
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janee
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Post by janee on Sept 23, 2016 10:37:32 GMT -5
no - janee doesn't legally have to accommodate this woman, but if she can IMO she should. THAT's how you increase employee morale and loyalty. Totally agree. That's why I'm asking questions.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 23, 2016 10:48:12 GMT -5
janee -Not sure what FMLA has to do with this 'new' employee, but does the emplyee meet these requirements for FMLA eligibility? "Employees are eligible for leave if they have worked for their employer at least 12 months, at least 1,250 hours over the past 12 months, and work at a location where the company employs 50 or more employees within 75 miles. Whether an employee has worked the minimum 1,250 hours of service is determined according to FLSA principles for determining compensable hours or work." No, she was hired in February. Thanks for this for the actual rule.
We went through the interview process and she was the one we thought would be the best fit. In googling her name, we saw a reference to her being pregnant. When I called to offer her the job, I told her I knew she was pregnant but in the grand scheme of things, her being out for maternity leave would be a small blip of time in what I hoped would be a long work relationship. We also discussed that it would have to be unpaid. I also told her since we are a small company to please not accept the position if she wasn't planning on coming back as it would set us back to far in our expansion plans. (it was a new position).
Janee-most federal and state EEOC laws will not apply to your business due to the number of people employed (five). Off the top of my head, the only EEOC law which will apply to your business would be the Equal Pay Act. All other areas of EEOC protection only applies to businesses with 15 or more employees.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Sept 23, 2016 10:49:12 GMT -5
Gotta be honest, it's weird how confrontational this thread is getting. Nobody has suggested that Janee tell this woman to pound sand. I've seen a lot of "No this law doesn't apply to you, but here are some suggestions" Hell even me (that allegedly thinks the worst of this woman) has been trying to help brainstorm for suggestions and possible solutions. Maybe I'm still in my post vacation zen happy place or what but I feel like some are arguing with others because they are anticipating reactions that just aren't there. janee Another question, how far does she live from work? It's a long-shot, but is it feasible for her to go home and pump? I have no idea where you are located (small town or big city) but depending on her needs it might be easier to modify her work schedule to allow for late arrivals/extended lunches if she can make it home during that time. I don't think it's confrontational. If I sound confrontational, it was/is not my intention and I apologize. I guess I was just surprised that anyone would be bringing up the fact that janee doesn't have to accommodate her - especially since she started the thread knowing she was going to do her best to accommodate this employee.
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 23, 2016 11:18:06 GMT -5
Gotta be honest, it's weird how confrontational this thread is getting. Nobody has suggested that Janee tell this woman to pound sand. I've seen a lot of "No this law doesn't apply to you, but here are some suggestions" Hell even me (that allegedly thinks the worst of this woman) has been trying to help brainstorm for suggestions and possible solutions. Maybe I'm still in my post vacation zen happy place or what but I feel like some are arguing with others because they are anticipating reactions that just aren't there. janee Another question, how far does she live from work? It's a long-shot, but is it feasible for her to go home and pump? I have no idea where you are located (small town or big city) but depending on her needs it might be easier to modify her work schedule to allow for late arrivals/extended lunches if she can make it home during that time. I don't think it's confrontational. If I sound confrontational, it was/is not my intention and I apologize. I guess I was just surprised that anyone would be bringing up the fact that janee doesn't have to accommodate her - especially since she started the thread knowing she was going to do her best to accommodate this employee. I was one that posted some suggestions on how to accommodate the employee and also pointed out that the law might not be applicable here. The reason it's relevant for Janee to understand exactly what the legal requirements are is that this is one more piece of the puzzle she's trying to solve. Janee is obviously trying to figure out a reasonable plan (which is really hard to do if you don't have experience with pumping) but given the space constraints she's describing there's a good chance that she'll end up having to choose between two things: 1) A little bit of a weird or less than ideal space, like a tent or borrowing someone's private office. Would still provide the employee the bare bones of privacy and space, but might be awkward. 2) Paying to rent extra space elsewhere in the building. Why is it important that Janee knows what the law is? Because Janee's trying to figure out what the exact requirements are so she can comply and more importantly, the employee was the one that brought up the law and implied it was applicable. In my experience as an employer and consultant, having seen literally thousands of different employee interactions from a management perspective, the employees who cite the law are the ones that are almost always the most likely to be demanding and inflexible. Often, they're citing law as a way to imply they have some sort of leverage and are about to use that to push for something big. That may not be the case here - God knows, my first kid didn't sleep more than two hours at a stretch until he was a toddler and if this mom's kid is like that she may not be at all a PITA, she just literally does not have the brain power to do anything but survive right now and we should be prepared to cut her slack. But Janee should also be prepared with the facts in case she is the PITA type. Janee may be forced to offer the Type 1 solution, which although a little awkward, is very, very generous if she doesn't legally have to do anything. It's important for the long term relationship with this employee that the employee knows what the legal requirements are so she can understand the lengths (research, buying supplies, giving up her personal office) Janee is going through to be a good employer. The whole situation is totally different if Janee is just doing what the law requires versus if Janee is being a good egg and doing what's right as a caring human being. It's reasonable that the employee be aware of that important difference. As an employee, if I had to do a Type 1 situation, my reactions might be different depending on my understanding of the law. If I thought the law applied to this company, I'd be a little disappointed that their idea of accommodation was so personally awkward. If I knew the law didn't apply and the employer didn't have to do anything at all, I'd be incredibly grateful that the employer went to such lengths to help me. Big difference.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 23, 2016 11:19:33 GMT -5
I think sending that kind of email is weird. BUT I will forgive a lot of someone who was normal pre-baby having some mental and emotional lapses post baby. Pumping has to be one of the weirdest things I've ever done in my life and I've already said I'm not shy about it. Some people are just mortified to bring something like that up and maybe the email link seemed like an easier way to do it. May indicate that she isn't a problem solver which may be a concern. But again, 5 week old baby.
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