Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Aug 14, 2016 21:37:48 GMT -5
I hate how easy dads can get away with not being fathers.
If a woman gets pregnant a lot of people expect her to raise the baby, they tell her getting an abortion is wrong but in the same breath can defend the father not being involved. Or if the woman decides to keep it and then think the dad still has a right to not be involved.
The woman almost ALWAYS gets blamed and then is said "Suffer the consequences for what you did." but the guy gets off scott free.
No. I don't go "Bravo, sir! You're at least helping with money!" No. He put his pecker in her vagina and she had to go through pregnancy and the pains of that pregnancy and all he has to do is give some money, as she's left raising this child on her own. '
No excuse for no condom. No excuse for not stepping up to be a father. If you're not ready to be a father, or don't want to be a father put a condom on and make sure she's on BC. If you don't want to do this...keep your pecker in your pants.
When a man does this....I honestly do not deem him a "Good Man." a good man steps up no matter how tough it is and doesn't leave a woman to raise a child by herself.
He's at just as much fault as her and should be just as responsible as her. But, men in this society seem to get away with and are less frowned upon for getting someone pregnant and not having to deal with the "consequences" as a woman does.
And honestly I don't care if she "tricked" him... a girl tells you she's on BC...unless you're married to her and prepared for children..you wear that condom. You need to be just as responsible as her.
And the chance of breakage is literally a 1 percent chance.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Aug 14, 2016 21:40:59 GMT -5
It's funny how a woman has to be forced to be a mother even if she doesn't want to be one but a dad can get away with it without looking bad. A woman can't. A woman is frowned upon whereas a man...it's just accepted in society.
There's literally no excuse... if he didn't want kids he should have kept his pecker in his pants or at least wrapped it.
A man that has children and doesn't step up will never be a grand person in my eyes. There's no excuse. Because if they don't want children they should be responsible and smart or resist their other head.
Not to say I don't frown upon a woman that doesn't take care of her children because I do too but that's more common in today's society then with men.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 21:46:28 GMT -5
It's funny how a woman has to be forced to be a mother even if she doesn't want to be one but a dad can get away with it without looking bad. A woman can't. A woman is frowned upon whereas a man...it's just accepted in society. There's literally no excuse... if he didn't want kids he should have kept his pecker in his pants or at least wrapped it. A man that has children and doesn't step up will never be a grand person in my eyes. There's no excuse. Because if they don't want children they should be responsible and smart or resist their other head. Not to say I don't frown upon a woman that doesn't take care of her children because I do too but that's more common in today's society then with men. What do you mean? A woman can choose to terminate the pregnancy if she doesn't want to be a parent. A man can't say "I want you to terminate this pregnancy". Well, he can say it, but he can't make her do it.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Aug 14, 2016 21:48:48 GMT -5
Although there's a lot of unfit parents and in some ways I do believe people are better off without certain parents around. But it doesn't stop my point of if you're not prepared to be a parent wear a condom or stay away from sex. If you can't handle parenting and you don't wear a condom, you're irresponsible, i'll never view that as a accident because they're making a child suffer, or they're making one parent do it alone. It's something that most likely could have been prevented so because of their mistake they're just... in my eyes not good people for not thinking of the child.
Think of the possibility of a child not the joy you get for a "few minutes" and that's why I believe it's selfish, and can easily mean the person's not that "great" of a person because all they cared about was their pleasure with no respect and then making a child suffer, not taking care of a child and no punishment is handed out.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Aug 14, 2016 21:50:10 GMT -5
It's funny how a woman has to be forced to be a mother even if she doesn't want to be one but a dad can get away with it without looking bad. A woman can't. A woman is frowned upon whereas a man...it's just accepted in society. There's literally no excuse... if he didn't want kids he should have kept his pecker in his pants or at least wrapped it. A man that has children and doesn't step up will never be a grand person in my eyes. There's no excuse. Because if they don't want children they should be responsible and smart or resist their other head. Not to say I don't frown upon a woman that doesn't take care of her children because I do too but that's more common in today's society then with men. What do you mean? A woman can choose to terminate the pregnancy if she doesn't want to be a parent. A man can't say "I want you to terminate this pregnancy". Well, he can say it, but he can't make her do it. Can she? Can every woman sincerely have this choice? Maybe. But will they be shamed for it the rest of their life? Yes. Will they walk down the street sometimes, get online sometimes and hear people yell at them for their choice? Yes. Some do not have this choice and those that do can be shamed upon whereas the man can walk away and people shrug. A lot of people that say it's okay the dad left but if the woman got rid of the baby are the same people that would shame her for it.
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justme
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Post by justme on Aug 14, 2016 21:55:12 GMT -5
I hate how easy dads can get away with not being fathers. If a woman gets pregnant a lot of people expect her to raise the baby, they tell her getting an abortion is wrong but in the same breath can defend the father not being involved. Or if the woman decides to keep it and then think the dad still has a right to not be involved. The woman almost ALWAYS gets blamed and then is said "Suffer the consequences for what you did." but the guy gets off scott free. No. I don't go "Bravo, sir! You're at least helping with money!" No. He put his pecker in her vagina and she had to go through pregnancy and the pains of that pregnancy and all he has to do is give some money, as she's left raising this child on her own. ' No excuse for no condom. No excuse for not stepping up to be a father. If you're not ready to be a father, or don't want to be a father put a condom on and make sure she's on BC. If you don't want to do this...keep your pecker in your pants. When a man does this....I honestly do not deem him a "Good Man." a good man steps up no matter how tough it is and doesn't leave a woman to raise a child by herself. He's at just as much fault as her and should be just as responsible as her. But, men in this society seem to get away with and are less frowned upon for getting someone pregnant and not having to deal with the "consequences" as a woman does. And honestly I don't care if she "tricked" him... a girl tells you she's on BC...unless you're married to her and prepared for children..you wear that condom. You need to be just as responsible as her. And the chance of breakage is literally a 1 percent chance. Yea, but breakage isn't the only thing that could go wrong. Failure with condoms in a perfect world is 2-3 percent. In a actual world, with typical use the rate is 15 percent. Yup 15 of every 100 condoms under typical use fails. While yes guys that don't want to be dads should wear condoms, it's a load of crap to believe that every unwilling guy didn't wear a condom.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 21:57:21 GMT -5
What do you mean? A woman can choose to terminate the pregnancy if she doesn't want to be a parent. A man can't say "I want you to terminate this pregnancy". Well, he can say it, but he can't make her do it. Can she? Can every woman sincerely have this choice? Maybe. But will they be shamed for it the rest of their life? Yes. Will they walk down the street sometimes, get online sometimes and hear people yell at them for their choice? Yes. Some do not have this choice and those that do can be shamed upon whereas the man can walk away and people shrug. A lot of people that say it's okay the dad left but if the woman got rid of the baby are the same people that would shame her for it. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of abortions are done privately, so no public shaming. Either she never reveals she was pregnant at all or there is a "miscarriage". I'm sure you interact with women every day that have had one, but you just don't know. Stats I've heard is 1 in 3 women have at least one before age 45.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Aug 14, 2016 21:59:17 GMT -5
And not every woman feels right about it. Not every woman wants to have to go through it. So if she doesn't why should she be the only one that has to deal with the child? It's not as if it's an easy ordeal to go through.
That's my problem with it. I don't care what the woman chooses. The man is at just as much fault rather the woman gets rid of it or not and should be just AS responsible as her because he didn't have to go through a difficult choice like she had to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 22:00:53 GMT -5
People do still give babies up for adoption sometimes, don't they?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 14, 2016 22:02:54 GMT -5
Well, in a perfect world every child would be wanted. But it's not a perfect world. She made a choice that she felt was right for her and so did he. She wanted a child, he didn't. Neither one changed their mind. An abortion physically is less painful than childbirth.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 22:05:51 GMT -5
I don't know. Maybe it's because I was raised by just one parent and don't feel emotionally scarred for life, but I'm kind of of the opinion that if you don't want a part of a child's life, then your loss. I think forcing someone to parent is odd.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 14, 2016 22:11:57 GMT -5
There's a back story here somewhere. This is more than a bio clock ticking. She could have gone to a sperm bank or even just hooked up with some random dude from a bar but chose this man. Why?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 7:26:24 GMT -5
There's a back story here somewhere. This is more than a bio clock ticking. She could have gone to a sperm bank or even just hooked up with some random dude from a bar but chose this man. Why? I won't go so far as to say that she really wanted to get pregnant. But once she did, I can see why she would have thought he'd be a great dad for her baby. He comes from a good family, parents have been married forever, he has a pretty good job, he's always taken care of his older kids, and he's generally a nice, easy going guy. Why would he not accept it and be a good dad? Well, because he said he didn't want that and apparently he meant it. I do think the part about her not knowing she was pregnant until 2 months before her due date is kind of unbelievable. I've known 2 women that did that, one was a teenager, the other one was in their early 20's. I can't imagine a woman in her late 30's not noticing ANY changes in her body for that long. I think she was either scared to tell him before then because she knew he would be upset, or she just intentionally waited until the only other option was adoption.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 15, 2016 11:11:24 GMT -5
I'm sorry for that child. Really sad. Every child should be wanted.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 15, 2016 11:52:33 GMT -5
There's a back story here somewhere. This is more than a bio clock ticking. She could have gone to a sperm bank or even just hooked up with some random dude from a bar but chose this man. Why? I won't go so far as to say that she really wanted to get pregnant. But once she did, I can see why she would have thought he'd be a great dad for her baby. He comes from a good family, parents have been married forever, he has a pretty good job, he's always taken care of his older kids, and he's generally a nice, easy going guy. Why would he not accept it and be a good dad? Well, because he said he didn't want that and apparently he meant it. I do think the part about her not knowing she was pregnant until 2 months before her due date is kind of unbelievable. I've known 2 women that did that, one was a teenager, the other one was in their early 20's. I can't imagine a woman in her late 30's not noticing ANY changes in her body for that long. I think she was either scared to tell him before then because she knew he would be upset, or she just intentionally waited until the only other option was adoption. Maybe his main issue is not in parenting the kid, but the fact that he just don't like the mom that much - maybe he can't face 18 years of dance recitals and school plays and little league games with a woman he only liked enough to do a casual hook up with.
Back before I got married, back during the ice ages, I hooked up casually a few times. I can say with 100% truthfulness that none of those guys were what I would consider high quality, marriage or even dating material. Just fun-for-a-night guys.
If his attraction to her was only minimal at the time, and now she's added the fact that she's pushing him to do more with her child besides just support him, I can see how he wouldn't want to spend much time around her and/or the child.
I feel sorry for the child. Adoption would have been a better option, I think, then a mom bitter about the sperm donor not stepping up to the plate more.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Aug 15, 2016 11:57:51 GMT -5
The girls dad wants to be their dad, he just sucks at it. The girls both decided that they don't want anything to do with him. It's a choice they made after being burned too many times by him. Plus, he's still not over us not being together and bad mouthed me the whole time they were with him. Who wants to listen to someone talking crap about your mom? It's easier to just stay away from him.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Aug 15, 2016 11:57:51 GMT -5
When I read the OP to me it seems like the woman liked the guy, thought he had qualities that would make him a good parent and partner to have a child with and so on. It takes two to tango and I'm not trying to lay any blame but it seems like they wanted different things out of their tryst. If the guy doesn't want to be a parent emotionally but does so financially that may not be ideal but it's better than nothing. My "dad" wasn't meant to be a parent because he cares about himself more than anyone else and it took me a long time to realize that. If this guy isn't cut out for it or doesn't want to do it then at least he's been honest about it the entire time. If he tried to be one and his heart isn't in it then it will be evident in his relationship with the kid.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2016 13:05:31 GMT -5
And not every woman feels right about it. Not every woman wants to have to go through it. So if she doesn't why should she be the only one that has to deal with the child? It's not as if it's an easy ordeal to go through. That's my problem with it. I don't care what the woman chooses. The man is at just as much fault rather the woman gets rid of it or not and should be just AS responsible as her because he didn't have to go through a difficult choice like she had to. Why is it ok for a woman decide she doesn't want a baby when the man really does? Sorry, but I don't think it is fair that we have it both ways. If we truly want equality, then both men and women get a say in whether or not they want to have a child. I personally think it sucks that a woman could choose to abort a baby than a man really wants yet the man that doesn't want a child gets stuck supporting said child for 18 years because the woman wanted the baby.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Aug 15, 2016 13:12:39 GMT -5
I don't see how you could force a woman to keep a baby to term because that's a slippery slope. If you're going to start doing that then let's also start sterilizing men/women who pop out kids like pez dispensers when they can't afford them.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 15, 2016 13:29:51 GMT -5
And not every woman feels right about it. Not every woman wants to have to go through it. So if she doesn't why should she be the only one that has to deal with the child? It's not as if it's an easy ordeal to go through. That's my problem with it. I don't care what the woman chooses. The man is at just as much fault rather the woman gets rid of it or not and should be just AS responsible as her because he didn't have to go through a difficult choice like she had to. Why is it ok for a woman decide she doesn't want a baby when the man really does? Sorry, but I don't think it is fair that we have it both ways. If we truly want equality, then both men and women get a say in whether or not they want to have a child. I personally think it sucks that a woman could choose to abort a baby than a man really wants yet the man that doesn't want a child gets stuck supporting said child for 18 years because the woman wanted the baby.
when men are physically capable of bearing the brunt of pregnancy and childbirth, they can happily weigh in on whether or not the woman should keep their baby. Also, how would you prevent the woman from aborting? Put a restraining order on her? There are a number of things that she can do that would harm/kill the fetus - how would you prevent her from doing any of those things?
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quince
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Post by quince on Aug 15, 2016 13:49:40 GMT -5
You cannot make a person want to be a parent if they don't want to be a parent. If they fulfill their financial obligations, I will give them a pat on the back. Women DO have abortion as a (difficult/challenging/not always available) option. BOTH parents have adoption, only if the other parent agrees, else whoever keeps the kid gets child support.
You can't pretend to want to be a parent. Accidents happen when it comes to sex. Going through the motions is stupid and the kid WILL figure it out. In that case, paying support and getting the heck out of dodge is the best that can be done, in my mind.
My biological father was a shit parent. Done. Nothing was going to make him a responsible adult interested in actually parenting. He didn't pay CS, either. I don't consider him a failure as a human, but he WAS a failure as a father, so he is a nonentity to me. I don't hate him, but he isn't my dad.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2016 14:03:03 GMT -5
Why is it ok for a woman decide she doesn't want a baby when the man really does? Sorry, but I don't think it is fair that we have it both ways. If we truly want equality, then both men and women get a say in whether or not they want to have a child. I personally think it sucks that a woman could choose to abort a baby than a man really wants yet the man that doesn't want a child gets stuck supporting said child for 18 years because the woman wanted the baby.
when men are physically capable of bearing the brunt of pregnancy and childbirth, they can happily weigh in on whether or not the woman should keep their baby. Also, how would you prevent the woman from aborting? Put a restraining order on her? There are a number of things that she can do that would harm/kill the fetus - how would you prevent her from doing any of those things? I never said we should stop her from having an abortion. But I am saying that a woman gets to choose whether or not she wants to be a parent so a man should get the same right. If a man wants nothing to do with the child then he should be able to sign away his rights and have no responsibility going forward. A woman can choose an abortion/adoption if she wants but a man is just stuck with her choice. I do not think it is right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 14:07:13 GMT -5
Parenting is really hard even when you're "all in" and want nothing but the best for this little person you created. I can't imagine anyone doing a very good job of it that doesn't care or resents the child. I suppose you can argue that by being forced for awhile they'll eventually warm up to the child and start feeling the parental pull, but that seems like a bit of a gamble. It could go the other way too and they go from ambivalent to abusive. Even if they don't, a parent that just doesn't give a shit isn't exactly a positive influence.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2016 14:09:16 GMT -5
Why is it ok for a woman decide she doesn't want a baby when the man really does? Sorry, but I don't think it is fair that we have it both ways. If we truly want equality, then both men and women get a say in whether or not they want to have a child. I personally think it sucks that a woman could choose to abort a baby than a man really wants yet the man that doesn't want a child gets stuck supporting said child for 18 years because the woman wanted the baby.
On the surface I agree with you, but at the risk of taking us down the verboten path. I have to say that the impact to the woman is much greater than to the man. Meaning that if a woman doesn't want a child but the man does, the woman has at least a year of physical impact, plus because of the nature of things a much higher emotional investment. Normally I fall into the "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" camp, but not on this issue. I actually wasn't saying we should force women to have the baby. I am saying that men should have the option to not be a parent just like a woman does. He should have the option of signing away all rights. A woman can choose abortion or adoption yet a man doesn't seem to have any choice.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Aug 15, 2016 14:09:27 GMT -5
when men are physically capable of bearing the brunt of pregnancy and childbirth, they can happily weigh in on whether or not the woman should keep their baby. Also, how would you prevent the woman from aborting? Put a restraining order on her? There are a number of things that she can do that would harm/kill the fetus - how would you prevent her from doing any of those things? I never said we should stop her from having an abortion. But I am saying that a woman gets to choose whether or not she wants to be a parent so a man should get the same right. If a man wants nothing to do with the child then he should be able to sign away his rights and have no responsibility going forward. A woman can choose an abortion/adoption if she wants but a man is just stuck with her choice. I do not think it is right. What if the man changes his mind and decides he wants nothing to do with the kid when it's too late for the woman to get an abortion? The courts can go after him for money but they can't force him to have a relationship with the kid. If you're going to give men an out when they knock a woman up you're just passing the expense on to John Q. Taxpayer who has no say when a child is created. Any politician who tried to pass anything telling a woman what they can or can't do with their body in this regard would get chased out of office and rightfully so. As a man I know the ultimate say when it comes to an abortion is up to the woman and the minute you give someone else power over that is a can of worms I hope never gets opened.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 15, 2016 14:11:30 GMT -5
when men are physically capable of bearing the brunt of pregnancy and childbirth, they can happily weigh in on whether or not the woman should keep their baby. Also, how would you prevent the woman from aborting? Put a restraining order on her? There are a number of things that she can do that would harm/kill the fetus - how would you prevent her from doing any of those things? I never said we should stop her from having an abortion. But I am saying that a woman gets to choose whether or not she wants to be a parent so a man should get the same right. If a man wants nothing to do with the child then he should be able to sign away his rights and have no responsibility going forward. A woman can choose an abortion/adoption if she wants but a man is just stuck with her choice. I do not think it is right. I understand that, but I think it's a function of the woman being 100% affected by the pregnancy and the man being 0% affected. It's her body. The only thing he could do is try to get a court order for her to complete the pregnancy and for him to adopt it after the birth. Fair for him, but IMO grossly unfair for the woman because she's basically being treated like a baby vessel instead of a person with her own rights.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Aug 15, 2016 14:12:36 GMT -5
I'm raising the "have a kid to keep my man/get an easy CS check" chick's kid. It did neither for her. She could prove me wrong if she wants, but she hasn't. She lost physical custody of him before the child support order even got signed by a judge. She didn't pay much support, (currently paying none) she doesn't bother seeing him if we or her mother don't make it happen. He was no use to her whatsoever once he stopped being a source of income. I'd prefer she'd wander off and just stop bothering and if her mom stayed out of it that's how it'd work out. Nothing sucks worse than watching a kid suffer because they don't get what they should get from their parent. And as the step, I have no say whatsoever in it. Not legally. I do let DH know what I think, but when it comes down to it.....
In case you missed it, I'm on the side of pay support and bail otherwise if you can't do it right. The kid will be able to tell. And suffer for it.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 15, 2016 14:27:19 GMT -5
When you get down to it, we should be concerned about the welfare of all children. Who do you think will be wiping your butt in the nursing home? Who will be prescribing your meds? Fixing your car? Teaching or providing child care for your grandchildren?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2016 14:34:04 GMT -5
I actually wasn't saying we should force women to have the baby. I am saying that men should have the option to not be a parent just like a woman does. He should have the option of signing away all rights. A woman can choose abortion or adoption yet a man doesn't seem to have any choice. Because then the tax payers would be on the hook. Nope, he can sign away his rights to be a part of the child's life, but not sign away the financial responsibilities. Yep it sucks to be him, but he's more responsible for the welfare of the child than random joe taxpayer is. Why would the taxpayers be on the hook? I can assure you I can raise my children without one cent from a man. Why do we assume another woman can't?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2016 14:43:55 GMT -5
I never said we should stop her from having an abortion. But I am saying that a woman gets to choose whether or not she wants to be a parent so a man should get the same right. If a man wants nothing to do with the child then he should be able to sign away his rights and have no responsibility going forward. A woman can choose an abortion/adoption if she wants but a man is just stuck with her choice. I do not think it is right. I understand that, but I think it's a function of the woman being 100% affected by the pregnancy and the man being 0% affected. It's her body. The only thing he could do is try to get a court order for her to complete the pregnancy and for him to adopt it after the birth. Fair for him, but IMO grossly unfair for the woman because she's basically being treated like a baby vessel instead of a person with her own rights. I still don't think you are understanding what I am saying. If a man wants the baby and the woman doesn't he is just shit out of luck. Well I think it should work the other way, too. If a woman wants to keep the baby and the man doesn't, then he gets to sign away his rights to the child and that's that. As a woman who is 100% pro-life, I still had the option of putting the baby up for adoption. So I could terminate my parental rights but it appears that a man doesn't have the same option. That's what I'm calling unfair. Why can I give a baby up for adoption and cease all responsibility but a man can't do the same?
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