Sharon
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Post by Sharon on Jun 17, 2016 18:28:58 GMT -5
When I graduated from HS, and this still held true when DD graduation, you could sit where ever you wanted but where you sat at rehearsal was were you better be sitting that evening. They had teachers responsible for recording the names in the proper order. They had like a teacher per 2 or 3 rows, something like that, it went fast. The only exception was the valedictorian and salutatorians sat in the very front row. It apparently had become a competition to be the last person through so when DD graduated the last person through was chosen by the staff and the student who had made the greatest progress, or something like that.
DD's college graduation was a nightmare. Think large state school. They didn't call out the graduates names. There were three different stages going and the jumbo tron's in the football stadium were split into 4, one for each stage and then random audience pictures. They didn't even really walk up on a stage so much as walk in front of a riser and receive their diploma. Fortunately we had it figured out where DD was sitting and could pretty much see her when she received her diploma. I think I saw when SIL got his but not totally sure. I know I did see him walking back after he received it. The students were also free to exit the stadium once they received there diploma but a lot of them were milling around waiting for friends etc.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 17, 2016 18:52:01 GMT -5
OK, you have a point there. I hated grade school. Same 28 kids for 8 years. I knew who I was going to sit next to each and every year. The nuns didn't vary from the seating plan... It was pretty awful. Thankfully I went to a bigger high school, community college and Big University. They tend to mix things up with the alphabet OR atleast alphabetize within groups so you might not always be first or last. My high school class had 793 kids graduate and they still did everything by A-Z. All of my teachers in the classrooms did the same thing as well. My community college graduation has done everything A-Z too. Of course we were separated into graduation times based on what degrees we got but it went A-Z still.
My university degree next year is going to be A-Z again.
I can't get away from it! I guess I don't give it the same weight of "I'm ALWAYS last" if your last name is Zed but you are getting your diploma in the middle of the diploma handing out part because you are getting a degree in Finance (or maybe Business Admin or Accounting) rather than Zoology There are still potentially plenty of people who will be receiving diplomas after you've gotten yours. I can see though, how it's irksome to always be last in whatever group you are in. I assume you won't be the last person (or in the last few) to cross the stage at your university ceremony. Actually, that might be a kind of interesting combination of things that get you to be the last person - not only do you have a name late in the alphabet but the degree you got was also late in the alphabet. Kinda cool. kinda like when your last name matches your profession or is a pun on your profession or has something to do with your profession. It gets old - but it is kind of cool. ADDED: I think I just developed some envy! Let's trade names - I've always been stuck in the middle.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 17, 2016 19:11:19 GMT -5
My hs graduation was by gpa to 3.2 (so everyone that was considered graduating with honors) and then A-Z for everyone else.
College separated is into college and then that's all you sat by whoever your wanted. You were given a card with you gown that your name major and any honors. There was also a space to spell your name phonetically. They went by college and then row. When it was your turn to walk you handed the announcer your card and walked.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jun 17, 2016 19:34:46 GMT -5
Question for those of you who don't consider this behavior rude. How do you feel about people coming in at all times during the ceremony? After all, if one can leave early what would be wrong with the disruptions caused by a continuous filing in by people there for graduates whose last name starts somewhere in the second half of the alphabet?
And as Sharon experienced, if the kids leave some of the audience is likely to leave as well blocking the view of those still waiting to see their graduate.
So, while I never experienced anything like this behavior, I side with those who say if you don't want to sit through all of it, just don't bother coming at all.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 17, 2016 20:45:45 GMT -5
The school forces you to go to HS graduation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2016 20:54:18 GMT -5
High school graduation was 25 years ago and outdoors and I remember jack about it. Ok, the only thig I really remember is a "friend" thought it would be funny to slap handcuffs on me and then pretend he lost the key up to the last minute. I was envisioning my arms around his throat choking him to death before he unlocked them. Asshole. I skipped my college graduation so I have no idea how that went down. My wedding was a wee bit more important. My diploma was mailed to me.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Jun 17, 2016 21:16:00 GMT -5
Applebee's? LOL...they have shitty food and a reputation at least around here of catering to an *older clientele. It doesn't strike me as the hot spot where all the grads want to go for a celebration meal. As to the rest....yes its long....yes its boring...yes its rude.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jun 17, 2016 22:13:27 GMT -5
Applebee's? LOL...they have shitty food and a reputation at least around here of catering to an *older clientele. It doesn't strike me as the hot spot where all the grads want to go for a celebration meal. As to the rest....yes its long....yes its boring...yes its rude. They were in Allentown, there's really no where else to go.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Jun 17, 2016 22:15:46 GMT -5
If you aren't willing to sit through the entire ceremony then don't go. It is is rude and distracting to everyone to have people coming and going. I almost didn't get to see my DD walk across the stage at high school graduation because the people in the row in front of us were standing up moving around to let someone out who wanted to leave. I think it was the same lady who stood up yelled and raised her shirt up, to flash her kid, when they walked across the stage. That's another thing you let one person leave and another and it does become distracting. If you say that people can leave after walking you get families walking out and other kids walking out. Then you struggle to hear or see the stage as well. This. Both DSs were at the beginning of the alphabet. I'm the overly supportive mother who clapped and whooped for.every.single.graduate. With the state of the world these days, I'll gladly celebrate all of the otherwise happy occasions I can get.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Jun 17, 2016 22:25:24 GMT -5
I'm Catholic. We receive Communion toward the end of Mass but not at the end. There are always folks who go up for Communion and head right out the door. One is supposed to stay until the last note of the last hymn, but...
The difference is that everyone is up and out of their pew when they chew and screw. The disruption that would ensue if folks all around one left a graduation ceremony at different times is simply unacceptable. It's akin to leaving a school play or school concert once your kid is done performing. It's rude.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jun 17, 2016 22:32:02 GMT -5
That's another thing you let one person leave and another and it does become distracting. If you say that people can leave after walking you get families walking out and other kids walking out. Then you struggle to hear or see the stage as well. This. Both DSs were at the beginning of the alphabet. I'm the overly supportive mother who clapped and whooped for.every.single.graduate. With the state of the world these days, I'll gladly celebrate all of the otherwise happy occasions I can get. I think it's great you clapped and such for every graduate Some graduates don't have someone there supporting them so sometimes unknown people showing their support for them gives a small smile and doesn't make them feel so alone if nobody is there clapping and whooping for them.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jun 17, 2016 22:34:37 GMT -5
Maybe when someone does it a kindergarten graduation there will be a big outrage.
I had a classmate in high school whose last name started with Zyg. She was always last alphabetically. I kind of like being M in the middle
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 17, 2016 22:44:45 GMT -5
I was second called, as I was salutatorian and wish I thought to walk out. The principal called me by my mother's name for the fourth time in graduation events as I entered the arena. (After the entire class yelled my name at him a few days before when he screwed up.) Then during his speech "apologized" to me by saying it was because my mother must have polluted his mind. (Yes, his. I had friends sitting next to me saying sorry for having to sit through that awkwardness) My speech introduction was botched listing the wrong damn college. Oh and the bastards misspelled my name on my diploma.
Plus my mom vetoed the speech I wanted to give.
Not sure why I went. Me graduating hs was expected by anyone in my life.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 17, 2016 23:50:39 GMT -5
I don't know if my HS even had graduation....I never went bc I don't think I technically ever graduated...
I never went to my college graduation bc 1) I had less than zero interest in it and 2) I was packing for my Europe trip
I never went to my graduation after I got my Master's even though my husband really wanted me to. Again 1) I had less than zero interest in it and 2) I was way too old for such nonsense.
I don't know if it's bc I am too cold or bc I didn't grow up here, but I don't get the whole graduation thing at all. I don't understand the point of walking on stage to get a piece of paper that you will get anyway.
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msventoux
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Post by msventoux on Jun 18, 2016 0:25:00 GMT -5
I've never been to a graduation. I had no intention of going to my college graduation anyways, but I was infuriated at what they charged for attending. I already felt gouged enough by them at that point, they weren't getting another penny from me.
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Jun 18, 2016 0:44:29 GMT -5
I went to my nephew's graduation last week. The school officials had to confiscate at least a dozen beach balls. It was held outdoors but there was no reason to play with beach balls during the ceremony.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 18, 2016 6:15:07 GMT -5
Question for those of you who don't consider this behavior rude. How do you feel about people coming in at all times during the ceremony? After all, if one can leave early what would be wrong with the disruptions caused by a continuous filing in by people there for graduates whose last name starts somewhere in the second half of the alphabet?
People go to graduation for different reasons. Different people place different levels of importance on ceremonies - some view a graduation ceremony as very important, some view it as a torture they just have to grit through. Recognizing that level of variation, the polite and respectful thing to do would be to keep the length of the ceremony to a time period that would be considered reasonable by the vast majority of people, one hour for example. If the ceremonies were one hour or less I would side with the people who say "suck it up and just sit through it" to keep it moving and minimize distraction. But if you're going to be rude enough to want to essentially hold people hostage to have enough butts in the seat to "support"(?) your kid or to "punish" them because their name was called first, then you've got to expect some people are going to do the reasonable thing and leave. And while we're talking rude, it's rude to disrupt the ceremony - and make it even longer - by cheering for graduates. It's well intentioned, but rude. Again, it's another way of saying - hey, I don't care if this means you thousands of unknown, random people have to sit here even longer, this is all about me, my kid and my celebration! For Pete's sakes, if graduation is such a huge deal to you, by all means celebrate it. There's no reason to make others miserable as part of your celebration.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 7:49:05 GMT -5
Passive-aggressive, IMO. If you don't want to sit through it, skip it and go straight to celebrating with friends and family.
At the HS level this has become a bigger issue with the consolidation of smaller schools into mega-schools. I went to a Roman Catholic HS and my graduating class was 120, so not much to sit through. Same for DS' graduation from NY Military Academy. And, in my mother's day at her Roman Catholic HS, you had to kiss the Bishops ring before he handed you your diploma!
"Chew and screw"- I love it! We see that in the Episcopal Church sometimes, too. With a woman it's a dead giveaway if she takes her purse up to communion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 7:50:16 GMT -5
You didn't answer the question quoted though. Is it ok for second hangers to enter late then?
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 18, 2016 8:32:29 GMT -5
Not sure if everybody realizes this, but there are schools that require students attend the graduation ceremony. For those that keep saying "don't go", that isn't always simple. And even for the schools where graduation is optional, just because a person might want to participate or is pacifying family that wants to participate does not mean that person should be forced to attend a 3+ hour impersonal, deathly boring ceremony.
Not sure if oped's question about second hangers is directed at me, but I'll answer. Social conventions are about making small compromises to make interactions comfortable for a majority of people. The social convention that someone should sit quietly through an entire event without making noise or moving is no more important than the social convention that we not abuse other people's time with overly long or unpleasant events in order to satisfy our personal needs (punishing the Zs or having an audience for our child). In other words, the right to trap someone in something that's widely considered unpleasant and too lengthy is no more a right than the right to arrive at or leave a ceremony that one finds unpleasant.
This reminds me a little of the transgender bathroom debate. People want to use these issues to try to force their beliefs on others. Instead of trying to do that - a recipe for failure - let's sidestep all that and focus on what compromise might work for the most people. With transgender access to bathrooms, let's stop focusing on if we're OK with transgender people (because let's be real, that's at the heart of the debate), and instead design bathrooms that give everybody privacy so we ALL get access to a private area to use the restroom and who's in the next stall becomes a total nonissue. For graduation, instead of trying to force others to do what certain people think everybody "should" do because it's important to them, let's create ceremonies that are interesting and brief enough that the majority of people want to go (or don't mind going). It would be a very reasonable compromise to say, this is going to be captivating and only last one hour and in return, we ask that you not leave your seat and not make a noise - just like they do at live plays.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jun 18, 2016 8:46:46 GMT -5
and what about those with the letter Z as their last name?
they have to sit through the enter A-Z and be considerate. i personally think if one person has to they all should. nobody should have to be punished simply because their last name is z. why should the letter a get to leave within 30 minutes and the letter z have to wait 4 hours? The principal of my son's HS let the one student with the last name beginning with a Z go first!! She said it was only fitting since he had been last pretty much thru 12 grades!! Kids thought it was neat and cheered when his name was called first.
My son's last name is "down" the list of alphabet but I would have set there for hours just waiting for the opportunity to risk turning cartwheels in the aisle as he accepted his diploma. HS school was like pulling teeth with him and almost drove me to drink
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jun 18, 2016 10:06:53 GMT -5
Not sure if everybody realizes this, but there are schools that require students attend the graduation ceremony. For those that keep saying "don't go", that isn't always simple. And even for the schools where graduation is optional, just because a person might want to participate or is pacifying family that wants to participate does not mean that person should be forced to attend a 3+ hour impersonal, deathly boring ceremony.
Not sure if oped's question about second hangers is directed at me, but I'll answer. Social conventions are about making small compromises to make interactions comfortable for a majority of people. The social convention that someone should sit quietly through an entire event without making noise or moving is no more important than the social convention that we not abuse other people's time with overly long or unpleasant events in order to satisfy our personal needs (punishing the Zs or having an audience for our child). In other words, the right to trap someone in something that's widely considered unpleasant and too lengthy is no more a right than the right to arrive at or leave a ceremony that one finds unpleasant.
This reminds me a little of the transgender bathroom debate. People want to use these issues to try to force their beliefs on others. Instead of trying to do that - a recipe for failure - let's sidestep all that and focus on what compromise might work for the most people. With transgender access to bathrooms, let's stop focusing on if we're OK with transgender people (because let's be real, that's at the heart of the debate), and instead design bathrooms that give everybody privacy so we ALL get access to a private area to use the restroom and who's in the next stall becomes a total nonissue. For graduation, instead of trying to force others to do what certain people think everybody "should" do because it's important to them, let's create ceremonies that are interesting and brief enough that the majority of people want to go (or don't mind going). It would be a very reasonable compromise to say, this is going to be captivating and only last one hour and in return, we ask that you not leave your seat and not make a noise - just like they do at live plays.
I actually don't see this at all like the transgender debate. And I do agree that we need to change ceremonies but until then you can't just have people coming and leaving as they please. Live plays can even run four hours. I actually just went to one last month. Of course there was a fifteen minute intermission but you couldn't leave when the play was in session. And I think if people were to stop cheering and making noise at graduation it'd ruin some of the fun of going. I know at mine that's what made sitting so bearable and it actually felt good to be cheered for. All of the students in my class all 600+ had people cheering for them. I guess maybe schools should just not make it a requirement to go. If they don't want to go they don't have to but if they want to then they need to go and be considerate. But I don't know you just went through four years of High School having to sit through a ceremony sure it's boring but you have to sometimes grit your teeth in life and bare it. If they're planning on attending college as well they may run into four hour classes. I have classes that were four hours and were a drag. If they're not going to university what about work? Eight hours of work for some people and they have to sit through a boring job. I think it's just part of growing up. And for some schools it's against the rules to leave early as well so if they're planning on breaking that rule they should just not show up in the first place. It's not only rude because it's inconsiderate to others. It's rude because it IS important to some people to watch their children graduate. There's some kids that are walking up on stage that didn't think they'd pass. There's some kids walking up on stage where the parents want to see their kids on stage. If you start allowing everyone to leave that makes it difficult. They are literally missing out on an important stepping stone in their child's life. What may not seem like a big deal to some is a HUGE deal to others. My mom would HAVE been so upset if she hadn't been able to get a picture of me because I was the first person to graduate on her side and the first to then go to University. Having a person on her side of the family graduate was a big deal. Sure maybe this girl didn't cause a commotion because she was the only one that did it but if it starts to become more acceptable the more people will do it and it's rude. It's not fair for parents that want to see their children, it's not fair to those that have to sit the entire four hours, I don't think a student that gets called first should get special treatment just because they were called first and I assure you that those that are stuck sitting the entire four hours will be upset as well as they'd been just as restless as the person that got to leave at an hour compared to 4 hours. I do believe ceremonies should be shorter but it's also part of the high school ordeal. We had to sit through five classes a day at my high school and that's 5+ hours and yes you were expected to be there as well. Spending one day of your life stuck in a seat to be considerate to others rather it's 1-4 hours is one small moment out of your life that you may hate but may mean the world to someone else therefore I don't think it's okay to ruin someone's huge moment in life just because you don't want to sit for too long. There's a reason certain plays people attend don't let people get up and leave as they please. There's a lot of things in a person's life especially as adults that one has to attend even if they don't want to and it is extremely boring. If a person truly doesn't want to sit for that long they can talk to the school about it, sometimes they may exceptions. But honestly you just can't start making exceptions for one student without good reasons. You allow one student to do it you have to allow them all to do it and it'd just be a big commotion. I know that from just having classes of 50 students where teachers would call names and you could leave class as soon as you got your name called. It caused a commotion among students, a chatter, and students were going every which way. I can only imagine how that'd look in the stands if their kid got called and they left along with their kid. Oh my mom would have been livid.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 18, 2016 10:19:52 GMT -5
Gonna be honest here - I really don't care if your mom would have been livid. And why should someone care what your mom thinks? After all, she doesn't care about what they think or their comfort... And that's the crux of the issue. What's important or not important varies by person. Either come up with something most people can compromise on or face the natural consequences, like people walking out.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jun 18, 2016 10:31:56 GMT -5
Gonna be honest here - I really don't care if your mom would have been livid. And why should someone care what your mom thinks? After all, she doesn't care about what they think or their comfort... And that's the crux of the issue. What's important or not important varies by person. Either come up with something most people can compromise on or face the natural consequences, like people walking out. Here's the thing someone graduating can be SO important to someone. SO IMPORTANT. I don't see making someone sit for four hours and that person being bored comparable to ruining someone's special moment. I think ruining someones special moment is far worse then having to sit for four hours. A little discomfort goes away... another graduation ceremony for a HS student is a once in a life time ordeal and they won't get that moment back. Having to sit for four hours isn't ruining a huge moment in your life or taking away from a huge moment from your life. Whereas people ruining another person's huge moment is very rude. I'd understand if that person had some where else to be like say a funural? a wedding? But if they're just leaving because "they're bored" it's so rude to ruin someone else's huge important moment in their life simply because they're bored. It'd be like ruining someone's wedding. It's rude to get up and make noise and shuffle and leaving in the middle of someone's wedding. Or even a funeral. Catholic funerals can be quite long and boring. But people don't make commotion and get up and leave either as it's very inconsiderate.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 18, 2016 10:36:28 GMT -5
Regardless of whether your mom can see you on a stage, if other people are talking, if other people are there/not there... you still graduated. This is not about graduating. This is about some people having an idea of what a "proper" ceremony commemorating graduation is. And apparently their vision requires other strangers to not only participate, but to behave in certain ways. If that's the case, then again, the best solution is to design a ceremony that's brief and interesting as a compromise for others participating. Or, you can clutch your pearls when others decide not to participate in the way you want them to.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jun 18, 2016 10:39:54 GMT -5
And why should one student get special treatment and get to leave an hour early where another is forced to sit through four hours?
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 18, 2016 10:41:33 GMT -5
Have you not been reading my posts? Nobody should be forced to sit through four hours. Nobody. Stop the madness.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jun 18, 2016 10:41:38 GMT -5
Regardless of whether your mom can see you on a stage, if other people are talking, if other people are there/not there... you still graduated. This is not about graduating. This is about some people having an idea of what a "proper" ceremony commemorating graduation is. And apparently their vision requires other strangers to not only participate, but to behave in certain ways. If that's the case, then again, the best solution is to design a ceremony that's brief and interesting as a compromise for others participating. Or, you can clutch your pearls when others decide not to participate in the way you want them to. There's still ruining that special moment for their parent that they'll never get back. I'm sorry but their discomfort will go away...That parent will NEVER have the chance to see their kid get their diploma at a high school graduation again. People need to be considerate of others.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jun 18, 2016 10:42:31 GMT -5
No but right now that may be how they are and until "change" happens nobody should get "special treatment" or risk having someone not have their special moment or ruin it for a parent in the audience.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Jun 18, 2016 10:46:56 GMT -5
I don't recall going to any graduation that was alphabetical. In my high school we reporting to our home room, and then filed in by class, but we weren't given an order within that class. I was very near last and neither my first name nor last name is anywhere near z. My husband was dead last at his college graduation, which was cool because EVERYONE cheered. Maybe his law school was alphabetical, I don't remember, that day was an insane burden. I've been to 3 college graduations in the past 4 years - all random. Interesting. I've never had a graduation that wasn't A-Z nor been to one that wasn't A-Z and I've been to quite a lot. Either way same concept. The last person shouldn't have to sit through it all and have to be considerate. Everyone should have to be just as considerate of their classmates from the first to the last one. I have also never been to an alphabetical graduation. You write your name on a card and hand it to the person announcing the names just before you walk across the stage.
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