billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 9, 2016 20:10:48 GMT -5
Thought experiment: Two females of roughly the same age and social status are both intoxicated past the legal limit for consent yet drunkenly agree to have sex. Can/should one or both be charged with rape? Would it be the first to go to the police who is the victim? If a "toy" is employed by only one, would that be the determinate? If it is two males, which if either would be appropriate to charge? Would the exact acts/positions be the determinate? What if it is one male and one female both intoxicated past the legal limit who drunkenly agree to have sex? How do you determine which one is a victim and which one is criminally liable?
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jun 9, 2016 21:04:34 GMT -5
It would depend on the statutes for criminal sexual conduct in the jurisdiction in question. We've been moving away from calling it rape and towards a more gender-neutral crime that hinges on penetration (genital, digital or with an object and inserted into the vagina, mouth or anus) and degrees of non-consent but there's still a lot of variation between US states. What's clearly CSCX in one state may be a much less severe crime in an adjacent state. Occasionally, clearly non-consensual sex may be unprosecutable due to how narrowly the law is written.
You're free to google your own CSC statutes but I wouldn't recommend doing it right before bedtime. It can be an unsettling read.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 9, 2016 21:11:58 GMT -5
IDK, I'm kind of find the OP's post offensive versus the humorous I think he intended... all he needed to complete the implied 'joke' was to add a scenario with a 50 yo woman and a scenario with a 50 yo or older guy on Viagra... As for the thought experiment part of it, I would have thought that viewing the "Make you Tea?" video would be helpful in indicating if any of the scenarios had slipped into the icky realm of "rape" or "unwanted attention".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 21:18:40 GMT -5
Caveat I haven't read the other thread yet. But I personally do see in cases where two people, male and female, are equally drunk and sex occurs that a male is in the current environment held to a different standard.
I am not referring to the Stanford thing now. Or anything like it. I'm just referring to two people being stupid and the girl is allowed to say she couldn't give consent because she was intoxicated, but even if the male was just as intoxicated he can not use that as 'justification for his behavior'
I hope this is coming out correctly as I've tried several times to say it in the past few days and it's difficult to get right. I am not defending rape. But I am questioning its use/definition in certain specific types of cases.
I do think that if both were female or both were male that the 'balance' would not be the same.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 9, 2016 21:36:36 GMT -5
Thought experiment: Two females of roughly the same age and social status are both intoxicated past the legal limit for consent yet drunkenly agree to have sex. Can/should one or both be charged with rape? Would it be the first to go to the police who is the victim? If a "toy" is employed by only one, would that be the determinate? If it is two males, which if either would be appropriate to charge? Would the exact acts/positions be the determinate? What if it is one male and one female both intoxicated past the legal limit who drunkenly agree to have sex? How do you determine which one is a victim and which one is criminally liable? I have no idea when alcohol is involved. Yes should be yes and no should be no and the people involved should be able to say either even if slurred. Mutual tearing off of clothes should be under a no fault sexual experience. So I suggest video taping the experience or getting a document signed to CYA. The Stanford case is a no brainer. That dude is one sick MFer and should be put away for a long time. And those 2 Swedish heroes should be getting great things in their lives and soon.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 9, 2016 21:48:27 GMT -5
IDK, I'm kind of find the OP's post offensive versus the humorous I think he intended... ... No intent to be humorous. I am curious what you find offensive about it.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jun 9, 2016 21:58:33 GMT -5
Thought experiment: Two females of roughly the same age and social status are both intoxicated past the legal limit for consent yet drunkenly agree to have sex. Can/should one or both be charged with rape? Would it be the first to go to the police who is the victim? If a "toy" is employed by only one, would that be the determinate? If it is two males, which if either would be appropriate to charge? Would the exact acts/positions be the determinate? What if it is one male and one female both intoxicated past the legal limit who drunkenly agree to have sex? How do you determine which one is a victim and which one is criminally liable? I have no idea when alcohol is involved. Yes should be yes and no should be no and the people involved should be able to say either even if slurred. Mutual tearing off of clothes should be under a no fault sexual experience. So I suggest video taping the experience or getting a document signed to CYA. The Stanford case is a no brainer. That dude is one sick MFer and should be put away for a long time. And those 2 Swedish heroes should be getting great things in their lives and soon. I think that is part of the issue where there is a line of thinking that suggests the definition of rape should also include morning after regret because an intoxicated person cannot give legal consent, and even if both parties were drunk, fully wake, and consenting, there is still this push that the men should bear the blame for it. So in essence men are still responsible and have to deal with the consequences of their decisions when they are drunk, but the same does not seem to apply to women. If a guy is drunk and has sex with a woman that he regrets sleeping with the next morning, even if the woman was completely sober, society and I am guessing some people on this board would feel differently about the situation than if the woman was drunk and the man was completely sober. For all the dislike of abstinence only education, it seems that we are trying to tell men that if you do have sex, you better hope she does not change her mind in the morning, even if you both were wanting it in the moment...so to be safe, you probably should avoid sex. Saying that hat is not blaming the victim, it is not saying that no does not mean no...it is however saying that it is not fair to place all the decision making blame on the men IF the women involved also wanted the same thing, but that is what people are wanting to do in regard to drinking and making bad decisions that they may or may not have made while sober.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 9, 2016 22:16:11 GMT -5
I think the better idea is to make it more acceptable that men can be raped and it happens more than people think. If one is sober and one is drunk then it's always up to the sober one to stop things, regardless of sex. The idea that "men always want sex" perpetuates men not coming forward when they are raped. But that same idea, that men always want sex, perpetuates people saying that it's up to women to "prevent" sex. Wanting to abolish that idea helps both sexes, but everyone wants to harp on the fact that women still need to prevent rape.
But I also think people muddy the issue with this "morning regret" idea. It doesn't happen as often as some like to claim, but it is constantly dragged out. The number of people falsely accused are way way way less than those that are never reported, never arrested, never tried, and never serve.
I do think there are issues when both parties are equally drunk, but I don't think it's as prevalent as some think. I think unless two people are equally drunk, and when you're talking guys vs girls it is a lot harder for them to be equally as drunk due to physics, the responsibility falls to the one that's less drunk to stop things. Yes, you won't get laid right that second. But ya know, if the person really wants to have sex with you - if you wait until morning when their sober they'll still have sex with you then.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 22:20:15 GMT -5
I went for counseling after cheating on my boyfriend in college and was advised that, even though we were both drinking, me drinking meant I didn't consent and I could call it rape. My roommate was similarly advised. See also milees example on the other thread.
It's not a rare enough occurrence for me to discount it, particularly in how I need to educate my children on rape...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 22:21:13 GMT -5
So, in educating my son to avoid rape I also need to buy him a breathalyzer and encourage him to use it?
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jun 9, 2016 22:23:48 GMT -5
I think the better idea is to make it more acceptable that men can be raped and it happens more than people think. If one is sober and one is drunk then it's always up to the sober one to stop things, regardless of sex. The idea that "men always want sex" perpetuates men not coming forward when they are raped. But that same idea, that men always want sex, perpetuates people saying that it's up to women to "prevent" sex. Wanting to abolish that idea helps both sexes, but everyone wants to harp on the fact that women still need to prevent rape. But I also think people muddy the issue with this "morning regret" idea. It doesn't happen as often as some like to claim, but it is constantly dragged out. The number of people falsely accused are way way way less than those that are never reported, never arrested, never tried, and never serve. I do think there are issues when both parties are equally drunk, but I don't think it's as prevalent as some think. I think unless two people are equally drunk, and when you're talking guys vs girls it is a lot harder for them to be equally as drunk due to physics, the responsibility falls to the one that's less drunk to stop things. Yes, you won't get laid right that second. But ya know, if the person really wants to have sex with you - if you wait until morning when their sober they'll still have sex with you then. It seems I have heard multiple stories of people doing things when they were drunk, that they would not do sober. However most people chalked it up to bad decision making because they were consenting at the time, but by some standards that would/could be considered rape if the person wanted to push the issue. What was once considered to be stupid drunken one night stands between two consenting people can now be called rape because one person regrets it the next morning. You honestly do not see an issue with that? By the way, physics has nothing to do with who is the most drunk...there are plenty of women who can drink many men under the table, but from your statement, it seems you feel the responsibility to stop it goes to the guy. I am not being flippant or argumentative about this really important topic, but I do think that there is something wrong when only men are expected to be held accountable for thier bad drunk decisions.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 9, 2016 22:33:16 GMT -5
I think the better idea is to make it more acceptable that men can be raped and it happens more than people think. If one is sober and one is drunk then it's always up to the sober one to stop things, regardless of sex. The idea that "men always want sex" perpetuates men not coming forward when they are raped. But that same idea, that men always want sex, perpetuates people saying that it's up to women to "prevent" sex. Wanting to abolish that idea helps both sexes, but everyone wants to harp on the fact that women still need to prevent rape. But I also think people muddy the issue with this "morning regret" idea. It doesn't happen as often as some like to claim, but it is constantly dragged out. The number of people falsely accused are way way way less than those that are never reported, never arrested, never tried, and never serve. I do think there are issues when both parties are equally drunk, but I don't think it's as prevalent as some think. I think unless two people are equally drunk, and when you're talking guys vs girls it is a lot harder for them to be equally as drunk due to physics, the responsibility falls to the one that's less drunk to stop things. Yes, you won't get laid right that second. But ya know, if the person really wants to have sex with you - if you wait until morning when their sober they'll still have sex with you then. It seems I have heard multiple stories of people doing things when they were drunk, that they would not do sober. However most people chalked it up to bad decision making because they were consenting at the time, but by some standards that would/could be considered rape if the person wanted to push the issue. By the way, physics has nothing to do with who is the most drunk...there are plenty of women who can drink many men under the table, but from your statement, it seems you feel the responsibility to stop it goes to the guy. It is mostly down to physics - though it's not just size. Metabolism also has a huge role in how fast you burn through alcohol (meaning how much you can drink before you get drunk, how long you stay drunk). I fully stand by whoever is the drunk one in a drunk/sober situation is the one responsible for what happens - regardless of sex. While I realize that there's several instances where the female can drink the guy under the table (I definitely used to be able to, and I probably still could with some "light weight" guys), on a whole it seems guys can tolerate alcohol better the females. I've been drunk and woke up the next day and gone "oh shit, I probably shouldn't have done that". I've also woken up the next day and had no idea what I did. (To be clear, sex was not involved in any of these situations I'm talking about, personally.) I wouldn't consider me having sex in the first instance rape. I would consider it rape in the second instance. The problem is knowing when a person crosses over from lower inhibitions to they're not going to remember anything they're doing. I think the same thing applies to guys. When guys get blackout drunk, some can't physically have sex - but those that could it's still beyond their consent. They probably won't report it though because all their friends would give them shit about regretting getting laid - when really they didn't remember it at all. It's hard enough to know when someone moves from drunk to blackout in someone you know - it's practically impossible to know that point with a stranger.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 9, 2016 22:38:14 GMT -5
IDK, I'm kind of find the OP's post offensive versus the humorous I think he intended... ... No intent to be humorous. I am curious what you find offensive about it. Maybe offensive was too strong... but the part that made me think - that's kinda offensive was mostly because why would it make any difference what the sexes (or gender identities) of the people involved have to do with weather one of them had something done to them without their consent (or knowledge)? Why would we need special considerations for a same sex couple? Why would an introduction of a sex toy to any combination require different consideration? I don't think gender (or gender identity) effects the dynamics of consensual versus non-consensual sex.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 22:41:08 GMT -5
But it does when in male-female situations with both drinking and agree while drinking to have sex, men are held accountable and women are not.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jun 9, 2016 22:53:11 GMT -5
I think the role of gender re:Rape is NONE with regards to who is morally at fault. It's hard to determine who is more intoxicated sometimes. I actually thing that as long as both individuals are conscious, they are responsible for their actions while intoxicated, including having sex. (People driving while intoxicated aren't given a pass on responsibility for being behind the wheel while drunk.) If they are unconscious, the conscious actor is committing rape. If they are both knocked out, nothing happens, WIN! I think it is also rape if one person purposefully gets another into an impaired state with the goal of taking advantage of it.
Unfortunately, socially there is the assumption that males are sexually aggressors. This means that in ambiguous situations assumptions that may be incorrect are made. This a gross thing.
Also, it is hard for some people to acknowledge that males can even be raped by a females. This is also a gross thing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 23:01:38 GMT -5
But that is not how it is currently playing out legally. In cases where both are conscious, both drinking and both give consent to sex while intoxicated, the male is not being held to the same standard. She can't give consent, and he is raping her. That is the issue., for me.
Again, see milee's example in the other thread where the girl was the agressor, she pursued him, she gave explicit consent, but because she drank before going to his house, she was able to say that she did not give consent and he was declared a rapist.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 9, 2016 23:11:21 GMT -5
I whole heartedly agree there is an issue where both parties are equally drunk and if the female decides to press charges the male's intoxication tends to be pushed aside.
I wonder how often that is the way the situations fall though. Is that how a lot of rape cases go? My gut is saying no.
BUT - telling both sexes it's a bad bad bad idea to have sex drunk can solve the issue. It won't stop all drunken sex, but maybe if it's drilled enough into their heads that no one can fully give consent because their drunk one or both parties will stop and say I/you're drunk lets wait until we sober up.
I don't think it's an issue telling people you shouldn't have sex drunk. I don't think it's an issue to tell people you shouldn't have sex with someone that's drunk. I think it's a gender neutral teaching.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jun 9, 2016 23:19:45 GMT -5
I whole heartedly agree there is an issue where both parties are equally drunk and if the female decides to press charges the male's intoxication tends to be pushed aside. I wonder how often that is the way the situations fall though. Is that how a lot of rape cases go? My gut is saying no.
BUT - telling both sexes it's a bad bad bad idea to have sex drunk can solve the issue. It won't stop all drunken sex, but maybe if it's drilled enough into their heads that no one can fully give consent because their drunk one or both parties will stop and say I/you're drunk lets wait until we sober up. I don't think it's an issue telling people you shouldn't have sex drunk. I don't think it's an issue to tell people you shouldn't have sex with someone that's drunk. I think it's a gender neutral teaching. How often does it have to happen before you feel it needs to be addressed in order to protect people from being accused of rape in those situations?
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 9, 2016 23:28:17 GMT -5
I whole heartedly agree there is an issue where both parties are equally drunk and if the female decides to press charges the male's intoxication tends to be pushed aside. I wonder how often that is the way the situations fall though. Is that how a lot of rape cases go? My gut is saying no.
BUT - telling both sexes it's a bad bad bad idea to have sex drunk can solve the issue. It won't stop all drunken sex, but maybe if it's drilled enough into their heads that no one can fully give consent because their drunk one or both parties will stop and say I/you're drunk lets wait until we sober up. I don't think it's an issue telling people you shouldn't have sex drunk. I don't think it's an issue to tell people you shouldn't have sex with someone that's drunk. I think it's a gender neutral teaching. How often does it have to happen before you feel it needs to be addressed in order to protect people from being accused of rape in those situations? I'm not negating it. It does happen. But in all studies I've seen, falsely accused rape is less than 2%. It in an issue? Yes. Is it greater than the 98% of rape that isn't falsely accused? No. It's even a small number compared to rapes that are actually reported. Yes, I think it's an issue. No, I do not think it's a bigger issue than rapes that actually occur. Partially because society already goes against women for what they did, what they wore, what they drank, what they said, and what they did anytime rape occurs. But I also think bringing up falsely accused people every time rape is discussed negates and dilutes the argument. Sort of a boy who cries wolf issue. It's really hard to separate those that are falsely accused of rape from those that aren't when those that aren't rest a huge portion of their case on "they're lying" which is the exact argument of those falsely accused.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 23:30:04 GMT -5
How often does it have to happen before you feel it needs to be addressed in order to protect people from being accused of rape in those situations? I'm not negating it. It does happen. But in all studies I've seen, falsely accused rape is less than 2%. It in an issue? Yes. Is it greater than the 98% of rape that isn't falsely accused? No. It's even a small number compared to rapes that are actually reported. Yes, I think it's an issue. No, I do not think it's a bigger issue than rapes that actually occur. Partially because society already goes against women for what they did, what they wore, what they drank, what they said, and what they did anytime rape occurs. But I also think bringing up falsely accused people every time rape is discussed negates and dilutes the argument. Sort of a boy who cries wolf issue. It's really hard to separate those that are falsely accused of rape from those that aren't when those that aren't rest a huge portion of their case on "they're lying" which is the exact argument of those falsely accused. This isn't about false accusation, as men are being found guilty...
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jun 9, 2016 23:40:52 GMT -5
How often does it have to happen before you feel it needs to be addressed in order to protect people from being accused of rape in those situations? I'm not negating it. It does happen. But in all studies I've seen, falsely accused rape is less than 2%. It in an issue? Yes. Is it greater than the 98% of rape that isn't falsely accused? No. It's even a small number compared to rapes that are actually reported. Yes, I think it's an issue. No, I do not think it's a bigger issue than rapes that actually occur. Partially because society already goes against women for what they did, what they wore, what they drank, what they said, and what they did anytime rape occurs. But I also think bringing up falsely accused people every time rape is discussed negates and dilutes the argument. Sort of a boy who cries wolf issue. It's really hard to separate those that are falsely accused of rape from those that aren't when those that aren't rest a huge portion of their case on "they're lying" which is the exact argument of those falsely accused. But that is not falsely accused rape if you honestly believe that a person can't consent if they've been drinking, and that is the point.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 9, 2016 23:52:19 GMT -5
I'm not negating it. It does happen. But in all studies I've seen, falsely accused rape is less than 2%. It in an issue? Yes. Is it greater than the 98% of rape that isn't falsely accused? No. It's even a small number compared to rapes that are actually reported. Yes, I think it's an issue. No, I do not think it's a bigger issue than rapes that actually occur. Partially because society already goes against women for what they did, what they wore, what they drank, what they said, and what they did anytime rape occurs. But I also think bringing up falsely accused people every time rape is discussed negates and dilutes the argument. Sort of a boy who cries wolf issue. It's really hard to separate those that are falsely accused of rape from those that aren't when those that aren't rest a huge portion of their case on "they're lying" which is the exact argument of those falsely accused. But that is not falsely accused rape if you honestly believe that a person can't consent if they've been drinking, and that is the point. Give me some studies that delineate between falsely accused because they weren't raped and falsely accused because both were drunk. Give me some studies on instances where both parties were equally drunk and one was accused of rape. How many instances where a guy was accused of rape but was also drunk. I haven't seen any on that. I have no idea how many instances of that occur. I have studies that show instances of rape, of those reported, of those where charges where filed, of those that went to trial, of those that we convicted, and those that were falsely accused of rape. That's what I have to work with. I'm not going to speculated how many were both equally drunk because I don't know and I won't presume to say it's a high percentage of instances. I'm not going to lie and say my personal experiences don't influence that, but I just really don't believe it's a huge percentage, but am open to studies that show it is.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 10, 2016 0:04:26 GMT -5
No intent to be humorous. I am curious what you find offensive about it. Maybe offensive was too strong... but the part that made me think - that's kinda offensive was mostly because why would it make any difference what the sexes (or gender identities) of the people involved have to do with weather one of them had something done to them without their consent (or knowledge)? Why would we need special considerations for a same sex couple? Why would an introduction of a sex toy to any combination require different consideration? I don't think gender (or gender identity) effects the dynamics of consensual versus non-consensual sex. Please reread: Thought experiment: Two females of roughly the same age and social status are both intoxicated past the legal limit for consent yet drunkenly agree to have sex. Can/should one or both be charged with rape? Would it be the first to go to the police who is the victim? If a "toy" is employed by only one, would that be the determinate? If it is two males, which if either would be appropriate to charge? Would the exact acts/positions be the determinate? What if it is one male and one female both intoxicated past the legal limit who drunkenly agree to have sex? How do you determine which one is a victim and which one is criminally liable? Two individuals who are both legally incapable of giving consent have sex. I was just attempting to find some way to determine if one was a victim and one a criminal,something other than gender.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jun 10, 2016 0:16:12 GMT -5
But that is not falsely accused rape if you honestly believe that a person can't consent if they've been drinking, and that is the point. Give me some studies that delineate between falsely accused because they weren't raped and falsely accused because both were drunk. Give me some studies on instances where both parties were equally drunk and one was accused of rape. How many instances where a guy was accused of rape but was also drunk. I haven't seen any on that. I have no idea how many instances of that occur. I have studies that show instances of rape, of those reported, of those where charges where filed, of those that went to trial, of those that we convicted, and those that were falsely accused of rape. That's what I have to work with. I'm not going to speculated how many were both equally drunk because I don't know and I won't presume to say it's a high percentage of instances. I'm not going to lie and say my personal experiences don't influence that, but I just really don't believe it's a huge percentage, but am open to studies that show it is. And I doubt you will see those studies because how much the guy had drank seems to become irrelevant when rape charges are filed, and you are also unlikely to find studies on the number of guys who could or would file rape charges after a drunken one night stands they regret. I also think it would be hard to separate those who claimed they were forcefully raped without their consent and those who did consent at the time, but are calling it rape because they had been drinking and regret it later. As oped discussed her experience with being told she could have pressed rape charges, do you not honestly believe that is not being pushed even more in today's culture? In fact, many on this board seem to not be willing to answer the question of if that situation should be considered rape or not. The number of studies are irrelevant in answering the question of if there should even be the opportunity for a man or woman to be charged with rape if the man and woman were both awake, consenting, and drunk at the time of sex? If only the woman regret having sex, it can be considered rape...what if only the man regret it, should the woman be held liable for rape or called a rapist? What if both partners regretted it in the morning, should only the man be charged in that situation? Should that counselor oped mentioned even be able to tell women in that position that they can file rape charges simply because they were drinking, and not because they were forced, coerced, and unwilling at the time? All of these questions need to be answered and it's not belittling the problem, as you seem to believe (especially with your anti-vaxxer comment on the other thread), but it is part of the problem. As I have said before, even in cases where the guy has been drinking and the woman is completely sober, it is viewed very differently than if a woman is drunk and the guy is sober. Is it any wonder that people don't necessarily understand what constitutes rape when we have different standards for men and women?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2016 2:55:39 GMT -5
Women as the rapist sure seem to be picking up in the headlines lately. Mostly teachers and 13, 14, 15 year old boys. They usually don't seem to receive anywhere near the punishment a male would either. I am sure it's because boys "always want it."
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2016 7:17:20 GMT -5
Call me naïve (because I am), but if a guy is capable of penetration, isn't he capable of giving consent? Doesn't biology shut him down otherwise?
I grew up a long time ago with no brothers, no male cousins or friends, etc. But I thought biology took care of a guy's consent problem.
This does NOT reference the OP's examples.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2016 7:20:36 GMT -5
Women as the rapist sure seem to be picking up in the headlines lately. Mostly teachers and 13, 14, 15 year old boys. They usually don't seem to receive anywhere near the punishment a male would either. I am sure it's because boys "always want it." Not true about not getting the punishment. For some reason, female teachers are constantly getting arrested in Alabama for this. I think we are #1 in the nation, making us wonder if no one else is reporting it. Women lose their teaching licenses and go to jail. Remember that most of these cases (and male teachers as well) are often statutory rape cases, not assault. They get full punishment around here. Well, one exception was the teacher that married his victim as soon as she graduated. She refused to testify, and they couldn't make the case without her. But he still lost his license.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2016 7:26:32 GMT -5
Women as the rapist sure seem to be picking up in the headlines lately. Mostly teachers and 13, 14, 15 year old boys. They usually don't seem to receive anywhere near the punishment a male would either. I am sure it's because boys "always want it." So she got less than three months?
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swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
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Post by swamp on Jun 10, 2016 7:27:43 GMT -5
Thought experiment: Two females of roughly the same age and social status are both intoxicated past the legal limit for consent yet drunkenly agree to have sex. Can/should one or both be charged with rape? Would it be the first to go to the police who is the victim? If a "toy" is employed by only one, would that be the determinate? If it is two males, which if either would be appropriate to charge? Would the exact acts/positions be the determinate? What if it is one male and one female both intoxicated past the legal limit who drunkenly agree to have sex? How do you determine which one is a victim and which one is criminally liable? Rape is defined as penile penetration of the vagina. Hence its not rape. She would be charged with Aggravated Sex Abuse or Criminal Sexual Act
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2016 7:29:06 GMT -5
Call me naïve (because I am), but if a guy is capable of penetration, isn't he capable of giving consent? Doesn't biology shut him down otherwise? I grew up a long time ago with no brothers, no male cousins or friends, etc. But I thought biology took care of a guy's consent problem. This does NOT reference the OP's examples. This is about when drinking removes the mental CAPACITY to consent. Even if your body works. Even if you say you want it and pursue it.
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