Ryan
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Post by Ryan on May 22, 2016 22:31:11 GMT -5
My mother in law does some crafting/quilting/sewing and I just have a hard time imagining people that have this great of a need for space. If you figure there are a certain amount of hardcore crafters in an area, I would imagine that it's an extremely small % of those people that can't or don't want to work out of their homes.
The only crafting small businesses that seem to do ok are the ones that are centered around kids b-days and events. Personally, if I were you, I'd more get into the type of business where you can do it on the side and book b-days and events for people that want a crafty themed party. I don't even know if that would work, but it would be lower overhead, more profitable, and you'd be able to set hours to some extent.
If you don't have any money though, there is no way you'd get a loan. The only startup businesses you can get loans for are pretty much franchises and they require you to have some equity.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on May 22, 2016 22:33:34 GMT -5
KaraBoo, I am going to give some of the best advise you have ever had when it comes to this business.
Unless you have a pile of money that you do not need else where, Don't do this!!
Without a pile of money behind this, it is doomed! a failing business takes its toll on everything, including your marriage!
I know this is harsh, it is your dream, But without a pile of money behind you, it will turn into a nightmare!
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milee
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Post by milee on May 22, 2016 23:01:19 GMT -5
One of the reasons I'm offering suggestions for how to tweak your original idea instead of just shooting it down is that this - if you incorporate the tweaks and are careful - doesn't have to be a business that requires a huge upfront investment and I could see some ways of spinning hard work (creating interesting space, finding and offering interesting events, social media marketing) into something that could provide a decent income.
That assessment assumes: You first get your personal finances in a position where you can survive without your salary for at least 6 months. You do the work to scrape together your startup capital needed (deposits plus first 3-6 months of expenses) without a loan (probably a moot point since it's tough to imagine you could get a loan for this anyway) You are careful about renting reasonably priced space and do not commit to a long lease You are one of those geniuses who can create a welcoming, hip, comfy space with little to no funds. Think charming repurposed, mismatched garage sale tables, chairs and decorations rather than "purchasing fixtures" You treat nickels like manhole covers and get this going with hustle and inexpensive marketing You develop a realistic business plan that also has built in scenarios for different levels of income You have realistic plans for multiple income streams (again - a big, empty space where you offer clean up service is not going to produce enough traffic for this to survive.) You set up the plan around how to fill your business space as often as possible, resisting adding any other OH or specialization. No supply inventory, no fancy equipment, no special tools - you can't afford it and it takes you down the specialization rabbit hole. Focus on crafts for the masses that require little to no inventory or equipment. You figure out an ironclad plan for your customer acquisition. How do you attract them, how do you inform them of upcoming events, etc.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 22, 2016 23:09:24 GMT -5
The first question you need to ask yourself is if you have the tenacity and stamina to be a small business owner? Can you work 12-16 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year for the next five years or more? No vacations, no days off.My impression of Dark's situation is that the store had gotten to the point where it was paying the bills, but that the grind had gotten to be more than he could stand. I'm going to answer the bolded part with this: I've been in my current position for a little over a year now. Those who may remember from my other thread, I previously worked a VERY high stress position where I worked between 50-80 hours a week, for about 3 years in an industry where I had little-to-no-training, thrown into a start-up where a seasoned, experienced, certified person told me (after I was already in the position) that they wouldn't have touched the job for ANY amount of pay. I had NO vacations during that time and next to no days off (usually working from home whenever I wasn't at work). Three years, though, is only three years. I hit a brick wall after working 60-65+ hour weeks, 7 days a week, for about 12 or years. Now, I'm like, no thank you. I'm done with that now. I'm like the last person that I thought it would happen to. I learned how to be a workaholic by the time I was 15. Teaching filled emotional needs for me like nothing else could. Being gone a lot, working a lot is just so much of who I was, and frankly, something I took pride in. I went from thinking that working hard into your late 70's or 80's (defined as holding down multiple jobs) was noble and awesome to wanting to really be done with all forms of work when I retire, hopefully by age 58. I don't know when the shift happened. But, it happened. The grind got to me. So, be prepared for anything. You just may surprise yourself.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 23, 2016 5:27:45 GMT -5
I think the fact that you are willing to listen to critical advice without getting offended about your dream puts you light years ahead of most people. You do understand that this is a business. Which means this not a hobby but something that needs to make a profit or it will go belly up and you will get burned if you are not careful in your approach. Of course we all romanticize our dream but you seem to have a clear grasp of the ins and outs and what it will take going forward. As i have said, i think you should go ahead and begin your venture in an event oriented approach. I do not think you should lease a storefront at this point. Rather rent a space for the day, set up an event and see if you can get enough interest, participants, AND turn a profit. Then, report back for further instructions! lol
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on May 23, 2016 8:10:25 GMT -5
This reminds me of one of those places you go to make dinners to freeze. They do the prep and clean up and you put together the dinners. Are those successful? I honestly don't know, but that is the first thing I thought about when you mentioned renting space and handling clean up.
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milee
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Post by milee on May 23, 2016 8:45:32 GMT -5
Oh - and FYI - I'll have a LOT of extra time for research (online and by telephone) after next weekend. I'm having a minor surgery that will have me off work and on light duty around the house for a little over 2 weeks, so I'm going to use that time to follow up on ALL of these suggestions, work on the business plan, call some businesses to see about setting up times with the owners for a question session (if they're willing) and anything else that I've been sitting on regarding this idea/plan. This is a good time to get a taste of what it's like to start a small business. There is no vacation, no paid time off, no sick time, no set hours... sure you can choose not to work for a few hours or a day, but that means you just don't get paid, that critical things don't happen or that you have double the work when you return. Big psychological shift for some people. Some people find they are OK with that since the work is for their benefit, some people find they love it and some find they are overwhelmed by it.
It's not so much that you work more hours - although, depending on what job you've been doing prior to starting the business you are probably going to work more hours on your business - it's that the responsibility never stops and everything rests directly on your actions. Before I started my business, I was a manager at one of the big international accounting and consulting firms. The hours were horrific. But when I had my first son, I got three months off with pay. Yes, I took a few calls from ongoing clients and because I got bored did all my CPE for the year in advance, but none of the work I did on maternity leave was stressful, time consuming or especially time critical. My high quality employer provided health insurance paid for almost all the medical bills, with me owing a tiny one-time copay and my normal paychecks continued to arrive even when I did no work.
When I had my second son, I'd left the big firm and my personal business was operating around 2 years and still in high growth mode. I worked Tuesday until 9 PM, had the baby around noon on Wednesday, took a few customer calls on Thursday, did about 4-5 hours of work (including payroll) on Friday, spent most of the weekend hosting friends and family and then was back to the business pretty much full time by Monday... baby in tow. It was exhausting. But there were things that only I could do and as a small business owner, there's just not the same backup as you'd have in a company that you're not running and with other structure and employees in place. So although I wasn't necessarily working many more hours at my own business than I was at the corporate consulting gig, there was less flexibility in that until things got fully established there really was no time off. I no longer had employer provided health insurance, so was hassling with the details of our high deductible insurance plan, figuring out copays and deductibles with no HR help, paying premiums... and I knew if I didn't work, I'd have no business income to pay for any of that.
It's not just the hours, it's the change in structure and responsibility. You might find you like it or you might find it crushing. I kinda like it even though it's exhausting. But not everybody does and they sometimes find out the hard way.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 23, 2016 8:54:10 GMT -5
This reminds me of one of those places you go to make dinners to freeze. They do the prep and clean up and you put together the dinners. Are those successful? I honestly don't know, but that is the first thing I thought about when you mentioned renting space and handling clean up. With dinner places everyone is doing the same thing. .. making dinner. Quilters aren't going to want to share a space with people painting, accidents happen. People painting aren't going to want kids running around that could knock things over or get into their supplies. You're not going to get all these people to share the same space at the same time. Needlepoint materials aren't cheap even if you shop at Hobby Lobby like I do. If were to walk into a space and see a bunch of kids with glitter and paint scattered about I am going to turn around and walk out, I'm am not going to risk ruining my project. If I want company I'll go someplace that has dedicated space for my craft and only my craft. That's the problem I see with the current idea of renting a space and "all are welcome at any time". Maybe break it up like Monday is Quit Day, Tuesday is Painters Day, Wednesday is Kids Craft Day. Then people can easily pick and choose when they want to use the space.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 23, 2016 9:16:00 GMT -5
This reminds me of one of those places you go to make dinners to freeze. They do the prep and clean up and you put together the dinners. Are those successful? I honestly don't know, but that is the first thing I thought about when you mentioned renting space and handling clean up. With dinner places everyone is doing the same thing. .. making dinner. Quilters aren't going to want to share a space with people painting, accidents happen. People painting aren't going to want kids running around that could knock things over or get into their supplies. You're not going to get all these people to share the same space at the same time. Needlepoint materials aren't cheap even if you shop at Hobby Lobby like I do. If were to walk into a space and see a bunch of kids with glitter and paint scattered about I am going to turn around and walk out, I'm am not going to risk ruining my project. If I want company I'll go someplace that has dedicated space for my craft and only my craft. That's the problem I see with the current idea of renting a space and "all are welcome at any time". Maybe break it up like Monday is Quit Day, Tuesday is Painters Day, Wednesday is Kids Craft Day. Then people can easily pick and choose when they want to use the space. Best. Typo. Ever.
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milee
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Post by milee on May 23, 2016 9:50:07 GMT -5
A common vulnerability for small business owners is their lack of experience in organizational management and financial management. Can you give us an idea of your experience in those areas?
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justme
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Post by justme on May 23, 2016 10:13:28 GMT -5
A thought, if you are wanting to cater to the crafters that can't craft at home...lockers for rent. It's not just the space to make a mess it's the space to keep the supplies. If you had like a normal sized locker they could rent per month you'd have some passive income plus if they're storing their stuff there then they'll probably rent table space too.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on May 23, 2016 10:25:44 GMT -5
This reminds me of one of those places you go to make dinners to freeze. They do the prep and clean up and you put together the dinners. Are those successful? I honestly don't know, but that is the first thing I thought about when you mentioned renting space and handling clean up. the one I was using went under. I loved it but once dh's food issues kicked in, that was the end of it. WildTree hostesses sometimes host the parties in their own homes, but the people coming are to bring their own food, already washed, chopped, etc. You're basically adding seasonings in a social setting.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on May 23, 2016 10:27:11 GMT -5
This reminds me of one of those places you go to make dinners to freeze. They do the prep and clean up and you put together the dinners. Are those successful? I honestly don't know, but that is the first thing I thought about when you mentioned renting space and handling clean up. With dinner places everyone is doing the same thing. .. making dinner. Actually those dinner places are all but gone and the ones that are left have totally changed their business plan. Most of them make the meals for you and you pick them up. They totally saturated the market here and while people could afford the service, the food sucked (to be honest). I know someone who had a Super Suppers franchise and it was a disaster pretty much from the get go. Grocery stores and delivery services like Blue Apron do it better. I doubt over saturation will be a problem....but I don't honestly think this is long term viable as a rent a room thing. Add in classes and maybe. The rabid crafters I know have craft rooms and all the bells and whistles. That stuff isn't cheap.
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janee
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Post by janee on May 23, 2016 10:38:18 GMT -5
Karaboo, you're getting some good advice from the people who are questioning if this is right for your family. I remember you from your previous posts and admire what you've achieved. I see you love this but I really question whether it will end up as a business. I started a business but had significant funds (a year's severance). My partners and I took no salary for a year and we had incredibly low overhead. Can you live on DH's salary? If you can't, you'll be going into debt to try this. That would not be something I would risk.
I like Shooby's suggestion that you try this as a second business outside your normal job. Run it a few weekends and weeknights during the month. Plan your craft and find free places or very low cost rents to have your "sessions". Build your following. It will show you pretty quickly whether there is market for this or not. I don't think just space with clean-up is a business model. I do see, as Milee is suggesting, a theme or plan for activities, maybe with guest experts as being potentially doable. Try having your sessions at the big box stores in their craft rooms. Don't take on debt to try this. Save the money first.
If you run this as a second job, when you get to half your current salary, you can look at turning it into a real business. If you can't achieve half your salary, then you are just buying a low-paying job.
Good luck whatever you decide.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 23, 2016 10:45:26 GMT -5
The other thing I worry about is I think Karabo's business is going to be like my teaching one.
I can't outsource my teaching. People pay for me. My time, my expertise, my personality.
When I go to my "spots," I pay for the same thing from the business owner. I pay for their time, expertise, and personality. I don't get that sort of thing from employees of my favorite places, for the most part.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 23, 2016 10:48:50 GMT -5
This reminds me of one of those places you go to make dinners to freeze. They do the prep and clean up and you put together the dinners. Are those successful? I honestly don't know, but that is the first thing I thought about when you mentioned renting space and handling clean up. With dinner places everyone is doing the same thing. .. making dinner. Quilters aren't going to want to share a space with people painting, accidents happen. People painting aren't going to want kids running around that could knock things over or get into their supplies. You're not going to get all these people to share the same space at the same time. Needlepoint materials aren't cheap even if you shop at Hobby Lobby like I do. If were to walk into a space and see a bunch of kids with glitter and paint scattered about I am going to turn around and walk out, I'm am not going to risk ruining my project. If I want company I'll go someplace that has dedicated space for my craft and only my craft. That's the problem I see with the current idea of renting a space and "all are welcome at any time". Maybe break it up like Monday is Quit Day, Tuesday is Painters Day, Wednesday is Kids Craft Day. Then people can easily pick and choose when they want to use the space. Plus, I think about the liability of having things like rotary cutters and irons out with little kids. My youngest figured out the safety lock on the rotary cutters. My cutters are down in the basement or way up high where she can't reach, even with the help of kitchen chairs. Thankfully, the peanut hasn't ever tried to stack a chair and a stool on top of each other. My youngest is not allowed in the same room with a hot iron. She is wicked fast when she wants to be. And has no problems winding herself up in cords to be naughty.
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milee
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Post by milee on May 23, 2016 11:01:21 GMT -5
The other thing I worry about is I think Karabo's business is going to be like my teaching one. I can't outsource my teaching. People pay for me. My time, my expertise, my personality. When I go to my "spots," I pay for the same thing from the business owner. I pay for their time, expertise, and personality. I don't get that sort of thing from employees of my favorite places, for the most part. Hm. I didn't see it like this (because that type of operation is the polar opposite of the type of business I'd want because you have all the risks but none of the rewards), but if Karaboo does, then I definitely wouldn't recommend starting it because she'd be essentially buying herself a job, not building an actual business.
If for Karaboo this is about being around crafts and people crafting or if she doesn't have the expertise/personality to understand how to set up the structure so that after the startup phase she's managing and not being the main operator+teacher+face of the biz, then this will never develop into a business that's profitable enough to be worth the considerable risk. If Karaboo sees her main job as being the person at the front desk that greets customers and takes their payment for the table or as a crafts instructor, this thing will fail.
But if Karaboo's starting it because she sees an opportunity in a field she understands and has experience in, if she devotes her time to setting it up so there's a structure and operation that she manages but isn't always directly operating, if she has the skill to identify and tap into a large enough customer base and financial knowledge, then I could see this developing into a business that makes a reasonable income plus is worth something itself as an entity that she could sell.
There's a big difference in philosophy between the different models and it's one of the main reasons businesses are profitable or not. This is also one of the main themes in the book "The E Myth Revisited". You do not want to be Mary the Pie Baker, who loves baking pies and makes such good pies that everybody urges her to go into business making pies. Profitable pie making businesses are a lot more about the structure of the business than the ability to make good pies.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 23, 2016 12:31:32 GMT -5
Just a drive by posting while I'm at lunch for work. Several of the suggestions from yesterday have already got me thinking in other directions - thank you!
To alleviate some concerns - this is a LONG term planning project for me. I'm not going to quit my job tomorrow or even next month. I figure minimum 6-12 months before I pull the trigger - simply because I HAVEN'T run a business before. I want to make sure I'm prepared as I can be.
I've been pondering on this idea for over a month already before I posted here. I knew about my upcoming surgery and have been collecting research material to focus on while I'm bed-bound.
I waited to post here until now, because I know how this group is (I've been part of the group for close to 10years!). I wanted to have confidence in the fact that the idea didn't become boring for me by the end of week one (other ideas have gone that way for me).
In short - I didn't want to waste your time or mine! ;-)
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on May 23, 2016 13:15:49 GMT -5
Honestly, it sounds like a fine idea for someone who already owns and wants to fill the space as a social thing with a little bit of income potential while you're there doing your hobby anyway. As a stand-alone business idea I just don't see it. Do a LOT of research and interviewing before you commit to anything, and make your forecasts work on the pessimistic side too. And this:
is not good enough. Even "being on solid ground" is not good enough. I have no idea of what your costs will be, but if you are not able to live on one salary AND put out thousands in start-up costs AND handle a $50,000 overall loss at the same time I would be very wary....
And DON'T minimize the impacts on family life. Owning a business is a major stressor. Owning a struggling business is a killer.
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janee
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Post by janee on May 23, 2016 13:24:43 GMT -5
Karaboo, very glad you are thinking this through and that it is a long-term plan. Can you use the time frame (6-12 months) to run it as a part time business to make your mistakes (because we all do) while you have a safety net?
Try finding some space you can rent (or better yet, free) for one weekend day and evening and two mid-week nights. Think community rooms in condo units/apartments, Veterans Halls, churches, schools (like adult education), maybe the room in the big box stores. The key is low cost or free with no ongoing fixed commitment. Put together some type of program/plan, build your following, etc.
I think testing the waters a bit will convince you about the feasibility. Running your own business is a marathon on a treadmill. You're constantly producing at the same time as having to prospect/promote work for the future orders too. You may find running the business end of this takes the joy out of the work.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 23, 2016 15:48:51 GMT -5
Okay, I have some time to focus on the thread right now, so I'm going to go back and try to answer any questions that I may have missed.
If I missed anything - I'm not trying to avoid it - just ask again and I'll reply. I probably just overlooked it or didn't realize you wanted a response or maybe thought I already answered the question somewhere else. Either way, I'll answer as honestly and as quickly as I can.
And just to be clear:
I WANT negatives!
I WANT suggestions!
I WANT your honest opinions!
There is no way I can be successful without have a solid plan. I cannot have a solid plan if I don't have answers for the hard questions. The hard questions come from those who say "don't do it for xyz reason". If I cannot have a response for WHY xyz reason either a) doesn't apply in my situation with solid reasons/facts why or b) an answer to how I am going to address xyz reason - then I have no business opening a business!
This is the BEST group of people for exactly these reasons - you make me think; you make me take ownership of my own thoughts, opinions and reasons; you call me (and others) out on their BS; and you care about each other and want everyone to succeed and be successful.
The "negative nellies" are coming from a good place (usually) and want to make sure each person is as successful as they personally can be. Sometimes that's not well received and not what us (me) dreamers want to hear.
That's okay - I love this group anyway and will always come back as long as the forum exists.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 23, 2016 16:01:05 GMT -5
This post: ""I was the craft organizer for a non-profit adult cancer camp for 10 years. I planned, purchased, and directed 3 hour craft sessions for 40-80 people (men and women). I’ve seen almost all of this 1st hand and up close. The only thing I haven’t done is turn it into a business.""
Here is your business model. Dot his, but for profit. 3 hour craft sessions. This can easily work into your life and full time work. See how this goes. You might just find this is a great source of extra income. Maybe it isn't a full time venture but another revenue source for you. And, this is where you get seed money to go further if that is what you want and what seems to make sense based on the demand. That is where this statement comes in - Allowing crafters to come in and block reserve a section to teach their particular craft to their group or open to the public (their choice). I wouldn’t be involved other than the rental space and clean up (there would be a minimum reservation fee attached to something like this). I would help with advertising on my webpage and distributing flyers.The problem I had with creating the craft sessions for the non-profit group is this - I'm not versed enough in a large enough variety of crafts to be able to do this by myself on a full time basis. When I was volunteering for the camp, it was twice a year, so I only had to come up with a total of 20 different crafts, easy enough for anyone to complete in 3 hours, but complicated enough to allow the more advanced crafters room to expand on the idea further than what I was presenting. Believe it or not, the most verbally successful craft I hosted was one that I thought would be a dud. It was the felt pillows that you only had to tie the two sides together and stuff with fiber-fill. I couldn't believe how many people said they were intimidated by the full sized throws sold at the stores and the pillows gave them the confidence to try the larger project. So.... Along with this post combined: I can tell you the new hot business around here. Dog bathing/grooming by appointment. People don't like their dogs crated. She's booked weeks in advance. Made me think about how I could combine the two. Because Zib is right - the mobile dog grooming businesses have more business than they can handle. How to combine them? By going to the adult events (my primary focus, cause there are already other businesses that focus strictly on kids) and doing crafts instead of other activities. Think bridal showers, baby showers, adult birthday parties, you name it - there are probably tons of other groups that would be interested in booking without the hassle of going anywhere other than their own or a friend's house. I could set up with tables, chairs, and specific crafts/supplies to choose from and it would be the same as I was doing before, but only for profit as Shooby suggested. I already have the experience to pull this off - I'll just need very limited start-up capitol to make it complete and run properly. Along with a host of other things that I haven't mentioned!!
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on May 23, 2016 16:06:43 GMT -5
I applaud you for wanting to go after something you are passionate about, but I just don't get this idea. In my city, you can rent rooms for really cheap or free at the libraries, parks and community centers. There are probably other places as well that I just don't know about because I haven't had the need.
Kids can craft at the Children's museums as long as they want for just the price of admission- $9 or $100 for yearly family admission. They supply the crafts and you can glitter, paint and glue until your heart is content.
I'm probably not your targeted customer though. I am one of those who enjoy an experience though- and have done the painting, pottery, stained glass and blown glass and jewelry making events. I'll go to Home Depot and do the kids crafts (free). I'll pay Michaels $4.95 for unlimited classes. I'll take my kids to parties at Young Chef's Academy.
If it were more than just a space and clean-up, then maybe I'd check it out. Otherwise, how are you drawing your customers. Good luck!
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on May 23, 2016 16:08:43 GMT -5
No words of wisdom, but glad to see you back Kara and with improvements in your world! I will say that, as a slacker, if I'm too lazy to clean up behind myself at home, then I'm too lazy to travel to somewhere that someone will clean up behind me.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 23, 2016 16:10:47 GMT -5
Some of your other questions -
Should you stock supplies? Not just "no" but "Hell no." There is no win here. You will not only alienate the craft stores you will need to partner with, but you will tear your hair out finding, managing and selling that inventory. It will be one of your single largest hassles and it will net you almost no money. Run. Run fast, run far and don't do it. The only way I'd touch that is by integrating it with your "Made" local vibe and having a cute, artsy armoire where people can leave or take extra supplies. Have a little paint left in the container... leave it here for the next guy. Need a little paint... check the freecycle-style cabinet. Creates community and keeps you out of the supplies business.
Grants or loans? No again. Grants are a bit of a myth anyways, so don't waste time with all the scams out there. As for a loan, honestly, if you need one for this type of business you probably shouldn't be doing it. Spend the next year saving your money and figuring out how to live on your DH's salary so you can fund this yourself. During that year, you can develop your business plan and could even start developing a customer base by doing art projects in rented space on different nights. But don't get a big loan for this.
I'm 100% in agreement with the supply angle! I threw it in there as a "consideration" because multiple people I had talked to had mentioned it as a "convenience". But I don't see it that way at all! I did consider and thought the "freecycle-style cabinet" was the way to go - totally on-board with that! I agree with the money angle as well - I just wanted everyone to know that I had considered it and it was on my list to research.
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KaraBoo
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Joined: Dec 21, 2010 17:14:51 GMT -5
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Post by KaraBoo on May 23, 2016 16:19:16 GMT -5
This quote: I also think you are going after the wrong demographics by looking at big box stores. The crafters I know are snobby about their products. Along with this one: The market of dedicated, specialty crafters in any one field is small, but the number of people who might want to do a fun, crafty activity in a good atmosphere surrounded by fun people is huge. So think about how to create crafts for that crowd. That's who Painting with a Twist taps into. People who are skilled painters don't want to do an activity in a group and they usually have their own space and supplies worked out so they're a terrible target market, but idiots like my friends and I who don't know how to paint but like to drink wine while we mess around doing a project with friends are plentiful - those people are who you go after. The combined statements are what I'm looking at - not the serious crafters, but those who "Painting w/Twist" attract. Those who only want a couple of hours of fun, while drinking, laughing and oohing and ahhing at each others creations, and have a completed project at the end of the event. I've looked at a couple of other business set up for this exact thing - they're all aimed at kids, not adults. And we all know the adults are the ones with the money!
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milee
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Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
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Post by milee on May 23, 2016 16:26:42 GMT -5
Some of your other questions -
Should you stock supplies? Not just "no" but "Hell no." There is no win here. You will not only alienate the craft stores you will need to partner with, but you will tear your hair out finding, managing and selling that inventory. It will be one of your single largest hassles and it will net you almost no money. Run. Run fast, run far and don't do it. The only way I'd touch that is by integrating it with your "Made" local vibe and having a cute, artsy armoire where people can leave or take extra supplies. Have a little paint left in the container... leave it here for the next guy. Need a little paint... check the freecycle-style cabinet. Creates community and keeps you out of the supplies business.
Grants or loans? No again. Grants are a bit of a myth anyways, so don't waste time with all the scams out there. As for a loan, honestly, if you need one for this type of business you probably shouldn't be doing it. Spend the next year saving your money and figuring out how to live on your DH's salary so you can fund this yourself. During that year, you can develop your business plan and could even start developing a customer base by doing art projects in rented space on different nights. But don't get a big loan for this.
I'm 100% in agreement with the supply angle! I threw it in there as a "consideration" because multiple people I had talked to had mentioned it as a "convenience". Good example to use to illustrate the point that you'll get a lot of advice from people who mean well but don't understand business. Some of business operation is common sense but quite a lot of it isn't. When people give you advice, consider if the person has any business operations background. If the person doesn't have any business operations background that doesn't mean s/he is clueless or should be ignored, but it means you have to more carefully evaluate if the suggestion has merit for a business. Laws of unintended consequence are huge here as is the tendency to not understand the level of complexity involved for basic sounding ideas.
You're going to want and need a mix of advice on this one. You'll want advice from people into crafting and experts in certain crafts. But then you'll have to filter that advice through a business lens.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 23, 2016 16:28:12 GMT -5
I was thinking about messy things my kids do that I hate cleaning up after. I would seriously pay $100 for one hour to go to a cookie decorating place during the holidays. For that $100, I'd want to be able to get 3 dozen already baked cookies in shapes I've picked out (I'm thinking 4-5), 4-6 colors of frosting, and a nice selection of decorations..I'd want the stuff that's hard to get/I don't want to buy because they take forever to use up.. like Rudolph shaped jimmies, snow flake jimmies, etc. I'd want to arrive, grab my cookies, decorate them, and leave. We try to decorate cookies for major Holidays: Valentine's day, Fourth of July, Halloween, Christmas..sometimes a spring one in there too. That wouldn't be enough to sustain business, but you could also offer other things: baking classes, cookie decorating parties, etc. If you are still with me on my posts, I would also not suggest a 3 hour block of table time for a grandma and young kids. That's way too long. One hour would be best, IMVHO. My 8 yo isn't even ready to sit for an hour and craft.. I really like the idea of decorating cookies - that's awesome! One of my ideas also included classes on wrapping christmas presents (that seems to be an art form that not everyone possesses). Not sure where the "3 hour block" came from - the original idea was to rent per hour. I was thinking how pool halls rent pool tables per hour on a tab and you settle up when you're done with your table. Maybe that's an unrealistic thought, but that was my original thinking.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 23, 2016 16:31:26 GMT -5
I think there were multiple threads by Dark about starting his business. This is one of them, but I think others were deleted. Starting a BusinessThank you so much for posting this for me! I'll be reading it over!
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 14:38:09 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 16:39:46 GMT -5
This quote: I also think you are going after the wrong demographics by looking at big box stores. The crafters I know are snobby about their products. Along with this one: The market of dedicated, specialty crafters in any one field is small, but the number of people who might want to do a fun, crafty activity in a good atmosphere surrounded by fun people is huge. So think about how to create crafts for that crowd. That's who Painting with a Twist taps into. People who are skilled painters don't want to do an activity in a group and they usually have their own space and supplies worked out so they're a terrible target market, but idiots like my friends and I who don't know how to paint but like to drink wine while we mess around doing a project with friends are plentiful - those people are who you go after. The combined statements are what I'm looking at - not the serious crafters, but those who "Painting w/Twist" attract. Those who only want a couple of hours of fun, while drinking, laughing and oohing and ahhing at each others creations, and have a completed project at the end of the event. I've looked at a couple of other business set up for this exact thing - they're all aimed at kids, not adults. And we all know the adults are the ones with the money! In general though the adults I know spend more on their kids than themselves. In discussing keeping good quality tools, I personally was not talking as a business person, but as a customer. I would not pay for just space and clean up. If there was nothing more offered than that, I would pass.
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