KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 22, 2016 8:50:48 GMT -5
When I think of money, business, and the smartest people I know, I always come back to this board!
I haven't been around in a while - mostly due to life and work, but I appreciate this board so much and you guys were the first ones I thought of to ask for advice and assistance.
First - I have tried - very unsuccessfully, to search for Dark's original post on beginning his business. There was a TON of wonderful information on that thread that I would like to re-read/review rather than have you guys retype the information (but by all means, do so if you want!). I just need some help finding the thread. Yes, I am aware he closed the store, but that doesn't mean the opinions and facts offered up in the thread weren't worthwhile anyway. If someone would post a link to the thread - I would be VERY grateful!
Second - I would like to talk with anyone who has started their own business and let me know what their trials and triumphs were/are. I want to know, in all of the gory details, exactly what I'm getting myself into. I want to know if I have the perseverance to make it through the tough times and struggles (I believe I do - but I don't know what I don't know).
My idea:
It appears on the very limited searches I have done so far, to be unique. It would have to be a brick and mortar location - preferably in close proximity to large, existing crafting stores (think stores like Michael's, JoAnn's, Hobby Lobby, etc).
I would be providing rental space on an hourly basis, to individuals and/or large groups, to work on craft projects without the stress of clean-up (that would be provided by me). The rental would include a table, w/chairs (2-4 max) and some basic tools for a flat fee per hour. The basic crafting tools would be along the lines of paper plates (as paint palates), cups (for rinsing paint brushes), paper towels, scissors, pencils, glue, glue guns, hair dryer (for faster drying times for paint), basic paint brushes (nothing fancy or expensive), and a few other things.
Where the idea came from:
I have a small house and a large desire to craft, but no space to work on said crafts. I thought about how much more pleasant crafting would be if I had people around me doing the similar projects (like a quilting bee – the work is so much more enjoyable when you have someone to talk to). I thought about how much I loathe having to clean up after myself (in my own home) after a craft session – I just want to take my finished craft and be done! I thought about all of the crafts offered up in stores that I haven’t tried because I have no idea how to do something like that. I thought about how much people love to hear praise for their crafts (such as a patron walking by another crafter’s table…Hey! That’s cool! I’ve always thought about doing something like that. How hard is to do that?).
Finally – I was the craft organizer for a non-profit adult cancer camp for 10 years. I planned, purchased, and directed 3 hour craft sessions for 40-80 people (men and women). I’ve seen almost all of this 1st hand and up close. The only thing I haven’t done is turn it into a business.
Other considerations:
Allowing crafters to come in and block reserve a section to teach their particular craft to their group or open to the public (their choice). I wouldn’t be involved other than the rental space and clean up (there would be a minimum reservation fee attached to something like this). I would help with advertising on my webpage and distributing flyers.
Allowing it to be BYOB – similar to the business “Painting with a Twist”. I still have to research the legalities of allowing something like this on property.
Has been suggested to me to sell very basic craft supplies on-site as a “convenience” factor. I initially rejected the idea as I’m not attempting to compete with the big craft stores – but being able to provide an extra ounce of paint (for a small convenience fee) without a patron having to leave does sound like a good idea.
I’ve considered having the availability of “consignment” space (shelves along the perimeter of the store) that crafters can rent monthly to display and sell their own crafts.
Current point in this project:
Planning stage. I am in the process of writing a business plan. I am on the US Small Business Association site and learning as much as I can.
Budget is currently being worked on. I’ve already been informed to double whatever my initial estimate would be. I think I will add 10% to each budget line estimate and then add an additional 20% to my final number as a “crap – I didn’t think of that” line item.
I am still working full time.
I live in a very large metropolitan – Dallas/Fort Worth. Location wise, it’s just a matter of researching cost of rentals in an area that would be ideal (there’s actually a store closing in a location that I would consider absolutely perfect – however, I know the rent would be extreme. It is 2 stores down from a JoAnn’s, across the street from a Michael’s and 2 blocks away from a major shopping mall – so lots of exposure, but lots of moolah also).
Money – non-existent at this moment. Looking at grants and loans available for women owned small businesses.
Okay – that’s the basics. Thoughts? Opinions?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on May 22, 2016 8:55:33 GMT -5
I don't have any thoughts on the business but I believe Dark's thread was removed by the mods. I know I was searching for it at one point for the information by Ryan, I think, on his business.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 22, 2016 9:01:28 GMT -5
Oh - well that makes sense now! I didn't know that, but would explain why it wasn't popping up. Thanks Beth!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 9:02:50 GMT -5
I think you need to consider if space is enough to attract clientele. Personally I think access to good quality materials without having to buy them outright would be a bigger draw. Basically you are talking about just renting space and time. Without a specific draw, why would it be dedicated to crafting? Why wouldn't it be a general space rental, like a community room etc. used for any purpose? Now if you had access to Copics and Microns and a die cut machine and good acrylics etc.
Michaels and Joanne in this area have their own rooms also where they offer classes.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 22, 2016 9:08:32 GMT -5
Yes, but there are groups like Newcomers who craft and other things and don't always want to meet at someone's house. A neutral place would be great. I wouldn't do alcohol though.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 22, 2016 9:09:00 GMT -5
You have a lot of ideas, which sound great. But, at this junction, you have no money. So, I would highly advise that you do not jump into a big venture as if this will replace your full time job. I would start out small and grow the business. You could start by incorporating your business with a legal name, tax EIN. And, you could do an S Corp or sole proprietorship or LLC. Which is best for you, i don't know but research and discuss with your accountant. I think the first step is to look for small venues to apply your ideas too. You have to first find out if there is any real interest in your business. Your idea seems to be that of renting out a space for the consumer to do an activity, ie craft, with you offering support and clean up. If you got into renting a brick and mortar store, would you really be able to recoup the costs of offering this type of service? Do you envision this going on 5 to 7 days a week or more of a weekend activity? If just on the weekends, getting into renting a storefront would seem very costly. I think you start this on a smaller scale. You could rent a venue, charge an entrance fee or whatever you would charge to cover your costs and make a profit, and then set up some tables, areas, etc for this to occur. I am sure there are places you could rent to do this and then oversee these activities and sell some of your own crafts, supplies, and maybe even some type of concessions as well. Just offering some food for thought as I think the most successful businesses i know start out on a smaller scale before they take a leap.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 22, 2016 9:12:00 GMT -5
My thought for renting specifically for crafters is because not all groups will "mesh". The fishing club is not going to want to meet while a music group is practicing their sets.
I want the home schooler groups to come in, along with the grandma babysitting her grandchildren for 3 hours and needs a project to do without making a mess at her own home.
I want to be able to say "Glitter to your heart's content! I'll clean up the mess!"
I want to be able to say, come singles, come groups - all are welcome! You don't have to ONLY be doing quilting or scrapbooking at this specific time.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 22, 2016 9:12:52 GMT -5
""I was the craft organizer for a non-profit adult cancer camp for 10 years. I planned, purchased, and directed 3 hour craft sessions for 40-80 people (men and women). I’ve seen almost all of this 1st hand and up close. The only thing I haven’t done is turn it into a business.""
Here is your business model. Dot his, but for profit. 3 hour craft sessions. This can easily work into your life and full time work. See how this goes. You might just find this is a great source of extra income. Maybe it isn't a full time venture but another revenue source for you. And, this is where you get seed money to go further if that is what you want and what seems to make sense based on the demand.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 22, 2016 9:18:02 GMT -5
Shooby - yes! Those are all great points!
My initial thoughts for store/rental hours would be Tuesday-Saturdays. Tuesday-Thursday being open from 11:00am-8:00pm. Fridays and Saturdays from 9:00am-9:00pm.
While I haven't done the projections for budget - my initial thoughts were to have the rental costs vary slightly based on "prime time". During school/work hours (typically the 9am-4pm), the rental cost would be cheaper (i.e. $5 an hour per table). During prime time, it would be hire (i.e. $10 an hour per table). These aren't set in stone, just my initial thoughts.
I have no plans on quitting my full time job until I have a much better idea of if this will work or not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 9:18:17 GMT -5
And what are your rental fees going to look like? Do you have an idea yet?
I do know some people seem to have a bigger aversion to glitter than I do. However they will skip glitter rather than pay much for the privledge to use it.
You are not going to rent the whole room? Just tables in the room with minimal supplies and clean up, is that right?
I understand and you want to rent to crafters, but I guess I'm questioning 1) whether that will be enough clientele to justify the business and 2) why crafters specifically would be attracted to the space versus other general populations, i.e. What specifically attracts the crafters to the space.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 22, 2016 9:25:52 GMT -5
I really see this as more of a weekend or monthly type venture, not something that would be profitable on a day to day business where you would want to get a long term lease. But, first of all, how much would it cost you to rent a storefront? That seems like it would be really expensive versus simply renting for an event. I think this more of an Event than a day to day business model. And, a lot of things are fads. Not to say people don't love crafts. But, right now the in thing is wine sipping and bad painting our local craft store. I think that will be a thing for awhile but in the future , who knows? People tend to do these things then move on to something else. I think you have a great model for extra income and a side business and that is exactly where you should begin. Time will tell and you can go from there.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 22, 2016 9:26:02 GMT -5
""I was the craft organizer for a non-profit adult cancer camp for 10 years. I planned, purchased, and directed 3 hour craft sessions for 40-80 people (men and women). I’ve seen almost all of this 1st hand and up close. The only thing I haven’t done is turn it into a business.""
Here is your business model. Dot his, but for profit. 3 hour craft sessions. This can easily work into your life and full time work. See how this goes. You might just find this is a great source of extra income. Maybe it isn't a full time venture but another revenue source for you. And, this is where you get seed money to go further if that is what you want and what seems to make sense based on the demand. That is where this statement comes in - Allowing crafters to come in and block reserve a section to teach their particular craft to their group or open to the public (their choice). I wouldn’t be involved other than the rental space and clean up (there would be a minimum reservation fee attached to something like this). I would help with advertising on my webpage and distributing flyers.The problem I had with creating the craft sessions for the non-profit group is this - I'm not versed enough in a large enough variety of crafts to be able to do this by myself on a full time basis. When I was volunteering for the camp, it was twice a year, so I only had to come up with a total of 20 different crafts, easy enough for anyone to complete in 3 hours, but complicated enough to allow the more advanced crafters room to expand on the idea further than what I was presenting. Believe it or not, the most verbally successful craft I hosted was one that I thought would be a dud. It was the felt pillows that you only had to tie the two sides together and stuff with fiber-fill. I couldn't believe how many people said they were intimidated by the full sized throws sold at the stores and the pillows gave them the confidence to try the larger project. So....
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chen35
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Post by chen35 on May 22, 2016 9:27:35 GMT -5
There is a lady here who advertises on the Facebook yard sale pages. She has a craft she does for each month, and several nights you can sign up. She builds the project, then you come paint/sand it in her garage. I did a flower planter there a few weeks ago. The draw to me was that she cut the wood. I don't have the tools to do that. The space and cleanup was nice, but not the main reason I did it.
i think having high quality tools (scroll saws, those expensive cricut things, etc.) would be a huge draw, more so than just the space and cleanup.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 22, 2016 9:29:29 GMT -5
This model gives give you a huge variety of options. Crafts can be anything from glitter and fabric to painting, woodworking and using tools, cake decorating, cooking classes, making cheese, beer brewing and on and on. The sky is the limit as to what type of classes you can do if you are simply offering a meeting place with some support. As you get underway, you can learn as much as you can about crafts, crafting and other possible fits for your business.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 22, 2016 9:30:19 GMT -5
Chen - I thought about doing that as well - having a space at the back of the store to house the larger equipment that may also be for rent. I hesitated posting that as I have no idea what the liability for something like that would be.
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chen35
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Post by chen35 on May 22, 2016 9:32:23 GMT -5
Chen - I thought about doing that as well - having a space at the back of the store to house the larger equipment that may also be for rent. I hesitated posting that as I have no idea what the liability for something like that would be. Yes, it would definitely add to your costs, that's for sure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 9:35:06 GMT -5
Have you checked out the local craft stores to make sure they don't already offer this service? As I said, our Michaels and Joanne's have rooms for classes.
Is there any way to survey the groups you are interested in servicing to see what their needs currently are and for what they might be interested in using and willing to spend for such a space?
Homeschooling art class we offer through co op is 6.50 for the hour per student including teacher, materials, etc. it is the most expensive class we offer. For a homeschool group, paying 5$ per kid, for just the space, is not going to happen frequently, at least here rurally. Maybe for a birthday party? But lots of places have community rooms, in addition to the craft stores. The library, the mall, the community center....
Im just not sure clean up is worth 5-10$ per hour per person. But that might just be my frame of reference.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 9:38:06 GMT -5
We are doing mom's coloring for Mno next month. We'll bring our own and share and color at someone's house. We wouldn't pay 10$ to go somewhere else.
Now, if there was a space with a full set of Copics we could use. Then we might meet at that space instead.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 22, 2016 9:38:33 GMT -5
I really see this as more of a weekend or monthly type venture, not something that would be profitable on a day to day business where you would want to get a long term lease. But, first of all, how much would it cost you to rent a storefront? That seems like it would be really expensive versus simply renting for an event. I think this more of an Event than a day to day business model. And, a lot of things are fads. Not to say people don't love crafts. But, right now the in thing is wine sipping and bad painting our local craft store. I think that will be a thing for awhile but in the future , who knows? People tend to do these things then move on to something else. I think you have a great model for extra income and a side business and that is exactly where you should begin. Time will tell and you can go from there. Not sure on storefront cost - that is in my research plan. While I don't disagree with you on the painting/wine sipping model being a fad, that is actually where I got this idea from. That fad isn't going to last forever - but the idea behind it will if marketed/structured right. The reason it is so popular right now is because you can go in as an individual or as a group - for whatever time frame/picture you want. It's fun because it is in a group setting. You are laughing and joking with the person next to you (whether you know them or not) and the wine just adds to the atmosphere. That's why this doesn't get set up as a single event or a single craft. Yes, crafters can "block" a set time to do their own craft with a group - but if someone wanders in to do a wreath while a painting class is going on - woohoo! there's room for everyone! (at least, that's the general idea anyway!).
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 22, 2016 9:41:02 GMT -5
Have you checked out the local craft stores to make sure they don't already offer this service? As I said, our Michaels and Joanne's have rooms for classes. Is there any way to survey the groups you are interested in servicing to see what their needs currently are and for what they might be interested in using and willing to spend for such a space? Homeschooling art class we offer through co op is 6.50 for the hour per student including teacher, materials, etc. it is the most expensive class we offer. For a homeschool group, paying 5$ per kid, for just the space, is not going to happen frequently, at least here rurally. Maybe for a birthday party? But lots of places have community rooms, in addition to the craft stores. The library, the mall, the community center.... Im just not sure clean up is worth 5-10$ per hour per person. But that might just be my frame of reference. Sorry! I wasn't clear - the $5-10 per hour was per TABLE, not per person (I'm thinking no more than 4 people per table rental - I have to cut it off somewhere). The supplies would be set up in a 5 gallon bucket that was part of the rental cost (again - these are just initial thoughts).
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 22, 2016 9:41:08 GMT -5
You will be competing with big craft stores who are also offering classes. And, churches, people's homes, etc. How will you distinguish your services from them? And, $5 or $10 certainly is not going to cover your rent and other expenses. What is your price point per person? A local dog groomer has expanded like gangbusters and i live in a small town. She started out grooming in her basement. She breeds and sells boxers. She began small. A couple of years ago, she built a brand new beautiful building and has mulitple employees. She offers grooming, boarding, and sells supplies. Now, she is offering dog training. You can get private training lessons or group. I signed up my new puppy and taking her to weekly group lessons over a 4 week period of 1 hour lessons. The cost for this is $65 and there are about 12 people in my group. 12 x $65 = $780 for a few evenings of lessons. She is building a great business and now offers doggy daycare. And, she is building another building to do indoor classes in the winter.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 9:42:32 GMT -5
This model gives give you a huge variety of options. Crafts can be anything from glitter and fabric to painting, woodworking and using tools, cake decorating, cooking classes, making cheese, beer brewing and on and on. The sky is the limit as to what type of classes you can do if you are simply offering a meeting place with some support. As you get underway, you can learn as much as you can about crafts, crafting and other possible fits for your business. Is there a need for this in the area though? That is the question that needs to be answered.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 22, 2016 9:43:20 GMT -5
I really see this as more of a weekend or monthly type venture, not something that would be profitable on a day to day business where you would want to get a long term lease. But, first of all, how much would it cost you to rent a storefront? That seems like it would be really expensive versus simply renting for an event. I think this more of an Event than a day to day business model. And, a lot of things are fads. Not to say people don't love crafts. But, right now the in thing is wine sipping and bad painting our local craft store. I think that will be a thing for awhile but in the future , who knows? People tend to do these things then move on to something else. I think you have a great model for extra income and a side business and that is exactly where you should begin. Time will tell and you can go from there. Not sure on storefront cost - that is in my research plan. While I don't disagree with you on the painting/wine sipping model being a fad, that is actually where I got this idea from. That fad isn't going to last forever - but the idea behind it will if marketed/structured right. The reason it is so popular right now is because you can go in as an individual or as a group - for whatever time frame/picture you want. It's fun because it is in a group setting. You are laughing and joking with the person next to you (whether you know them or not) and the wine just adds to the atmosphere. That's why this doesn't get set up as a single event or a single craft. Yes, crafters can "block" a set time to do their own craft with a group - but if someone wanders in to do a wreath while a painting class is going on - woohoo! there's room for everyone! (at least, that's the general idea anyway!). Oh, i agree. It's a great concept for people to get together, sip wine and do an activity. And, there is an endless list of activities that people could enjoy doing together. And, i think people want those kinds of get togethers. We are all so busy but people want some downtime to simply chat and relax.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 22, 2016 9:47:14 GMT -5
Have you checked out the local craft stores to make sure they don't already offer this service? As I said, our Michaels and Joanne's have rooms for classes. This is also part of my research - to find out what/how they do their classes. In my area, the classes are very specific and at specific times of days. As far as I'm aware of, you cannot purchase the items you need to make a specific craft and then ask to use the space to assemble said craft. That is what I'm marketing towards....the person who wants to have the experience of making the craft without having to make a mess at their own home (for whatever reason).
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 22, 2016 9:49:37 GMT -5
That makes sense. But, why wouldn't JoAnn fabrics or any the other craft stores have the materials they need? They have inventory. And, obviously that will affect your costs in being able to offer what is needed for any particular craft.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 9:51:18 GMT -5
Then you need to also be surveying those people. The craft stores shouldn't mind you surveying at their establishments if your services wouldn't compete, because cross advertising for such might help them as well. Get out and start asking.
While I think 5-10$ a table brings the space to more reasonable for the buyer, it makes the 'will business support itself' question bigger. How many tables will you have? How many would you reasonably be able to expect to fill an hour?
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on May 22, 2016 9:51:51 GMT -5
Yes, but there are groups like Newcomers who craft and other things and don't always want to meet at someone's house. A neutral place would be great. I wouldn't do alcohol though. If she does BYOB I would make sure there is a bed somewhere behind the curtain lol
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 22, 2016 9:56:46 GMT -5
This model gives give you a huge variety of options. Crafts can be anything from glitter and fabric to painting, woodworking and using tools, cake decorating, cooking classes, making cheese, beer brewing and on and on. The sky is the limit as to what type of classes you can do if you are simply offering a meeting place with some support. As you get underway, you can learn as much as you can about crafts, crafting and other possible fits for your business. Is there a need for this in the area though? That is the question that needs to be answered. Great question! That I don't have an answer for. Still researching. My gut says, yes, there are others out there, just like me, that have the need to craft, but not the space or anyone to do the craft with. Whenever I have a day off and I happen to go into a craft store, it always amazes me at how many people are there buying crafts in the middle of the day. Because I work full time, I don't always see the retirees, stay at home moms/dads, home school groups, etc who are out there in the world. That's why the pricing structure would be discounted for those people in the middle of the day vs everyone else getting off of work.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 22, 2016 9:58:47 GMT -5
That makes sense. But, why wouldn't JoAnn fabrics or any the other craft stores have the materials they need? They have inventory. And, obviously that will affect your costs in being able to offer what is needed for any particular craft. Sorry! My statement wasn't clear - craft stores have the materials - they just don't have the space. I'd be offering the space.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on May 22, 2016 9:59:32 GMT -5
I say don't do it! You were searching for Darks thread. You know what happened to his business. And people were telling him not to do it.
I sold mine after 7 years of fun and devastation and I had been watching businesses coming and going and I say go find someone to Work for and get your paycheck and free your Brain from working when you aren't .
I can't imagine you will have people calling for reservations enough to pay rent, bills whatnot. Have you calculates how many reservations you need to cover the rent and bills? Do tell and see how realistic it is.
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