aprilleigh
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Post by aprilleigh on May 11, 2016 15:57:49 GMT -5
Background: My 9-year-old son is playing in his 2nd season of basketball. He's not very good.... some kids on his team will never ever pass to him, game or practice, because it almost immediately results in a turn-over (I don't know sports, but I think that's a thing). There is 1 kid in particular (asst. coaches son, by the way, and he and his wife have noticed this behavior) that has just been a little turd to my son all season. Yelling at him, deliberately ignoring him, "guarding" rather aggressively, making fun of him for not being very good ...
Incident: Monday night at practice, the little turd kid was just having the worst attitude. Stopping around when he missed his shots, seriously chucking the ball at other kids when he was "out" during Bump Out and Around the World, trash talking... so my son was guarding him during a drill, and the kid took off running down the court, my son followed, then the kid stopped dead in his tracks and shoulder-checked my son. Which resulted in a broken tooth! We weren't sure if it was an injury that could wait til normal office hours, so we saw an emergency dentist ... $468 later, he has a temporary little cap on the broken tooth and a follow-up appt for more x-rays.
Questions:
1.) If your kid hurt another kid, would you offer to reimburse? 2.) If your kid got hurt by another kid, would you expect the other parents to offer to reimburse you? If they did, would you accept? 3.) Should the kid that did the sort-of-on-accident hurting have to "work it off"?
I'm inclined to accept a heart-felt apology, if offered. And I HOPE that his parents pull him for the rest of the season (only 2 weeks). But, I'm not going to ask for / demand anything. I just know that that's what I would do if my kid was the jerk. I'm ok with having a bad day, but your right to be a brat ends where other kids' right to safety begins!
I don't know if I would accept reimbursement from the parents, if offered. Maybe half? I figure, this is what emergency funds are for, right?? And sort of goes with the territory of sports? But if the roles were reversed, I would absolutely offer to pay ... especially because of the bad attitudes / escalation of being a brat. On the other hand, my husband thinks he would counter-offer having the kid mow our (tiny) lawn for the summer. We'll see them again at practice tomorrow night, so nothing has come up yet. Just thinking things through!
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on May 11, 2016 16:02:01 GMT -5
The team/league has insurance. My daughter got hurt in town softball when she was young, and I got reimbursed for the ER visit. And yes, that kid is a turd. He'll meet so eone bigger one day.
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aprilleigh
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Post by aprilleigh on May 11, 2016 16:05:26 GMT -5
The team/league has insurance. My daughter got hurt in town softball when she was young, and I got reimbursed for the ER visit. And yes, that kid is a turd. He'll meet so eone bigger one day. Hmm, I'll have to look into that. I vaguely remember signing an insurance waiver, but I could be wrong! Thanks!
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on May 11, 2016 16:08:29 GMT -5
Have you spoken with the parents yet? Are they the sort who would be inclined to apologize and accept responsibility, or did the apple not fall far from the tree and the parents the blaming-and-excuse-making type of people (which is why their kid is allowed to act like a turd to other kids)?
If they are the latter, I'd be inclined to skirt the whole thing directly and go at it indirectly. Because that kid and his parents have the ability to make both you and your kid's life really hell if an open confrontation were to take place. And even IF you could prove it was deliberate, what do you gain from confrontation if someone is not willing to accept responsibility?
I'd let my dental insurance company know that this injury was the result of a deliberate action by another. I would give them the (school? club? AAU team?) name and address and ask them to subrogate the bill to the organization under their liability insurance policy. You could try to do that individually with the parents of this kid as well, but again if they have a "turd-like" defensive attitude about their son you might have a nasty fight on your hands.
You're in kind of a tough spot, unfortunately. Good luck whatever you decide and I wish you well as you consider your options.
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aprilleigh
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Post by aprilleigh on May 11, 2016 16:17:41 GMT -5
Have you spoken with the parents yet? Are they the sort who would be inclined to apologize and accept responsibility, or did the apple not fall far from the tree and the parents the blaming-and-excuse-making type of people?
If they are the latter, I'd be inclined to skirt the whole thing directly and go at it indirectly. Because that kid and his parents have the ability to make both you and your kid's life really hell if an open confrontation were to take place. And even IF you could prove it was deliberate, what do you gain from confrontation if someone is not willing to accept responsibility?
I'd let my dental insurance company know that this injury was the result of a deliberate action by another. I would give them the (school? club? AAU team?) name and address and ask them to subrogate the bill to the organization under their liability insurance policy. You could try to do that individually with the parents of this kid as well, but again you might have a nasty fight on your hands.
You're in kind of a tough spot, unfortunately. Good luck whatever you decide and I wish you well as you consider your options. No, we haven't spoken yet. I thought they would have called to check in... I mean, I would have if the roles were reversed. I think they're basically good people ... but I don't know them at all. The mom has told me that she's embarrassed by her son's behavior and that they've talked to him about it, but it hasn't stopped. The thing is, I don't really want or need to have them repay. Our son, our responsibility, I think. But on the other hand, I would absolutely be offering to pay, so I realize there's a dichotomy. I was just wondering how other people feel about it. Also, we don't have dental insurance. I'm thinking I would be perfectly happy with a sincere apology from the kid, and an offer to repay ( or mow the yard ), but I don't know that I'd accept. I am TOTALLY non-confrontational and would probably cry, so I don't want to go there.
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chen35
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Post by chen35 on May 11, 2016 16:23:47 GMT -5
I'm kind of the same as you, I think. I would never ask someone else to pay, but I would definitely offer if the roles were reversed. And I think I would be annoyed if they didn't at least offer to pay for some, or offer up a sincere apology. I can see being afraid to admit any sort of fault though. We're such a litigious society. I remember when I worked in fast food in high school, one of the things they drilled into us was that if someone got hurt, never tell them you were sorry it happened. It could set you up for trouble later on.
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milee
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Post by milee on May 11, 2016 16:30:39 GMT -5
I'm really surprised the other parents haven't called yet to see how your son is. Assuming they knew your son was hurt enough to need to seek treatment (and it's unclear from the OP if the other parents knew your son needed to see a dentist, sometimes kids are hurt but don't need to see a doc), it's a bad sign that they didn't call to check.
If they knew your son needed to go to get medical care and didn't call all week, unfortunately you should probably prepare yourself that they are the jerk types that are not going to voluntarily take any responsibility. Even if they didn't feel their kid was at fault or should pay, it's basic decency if your kid is involved in an accident where the other kid is hurt that you check on how the other kid is doing. The fact that they didn't do that doesn't bode well.
So yes, I think they should at least have called to check; yes, if it were my kid I'd have offered to pay; yes, it sounds like the other kid owes you an apology; but no - they probably aren't going to do any of that. Some people are jerks. And they'll hide behind denials. Denials like: hey, things happen in sports; how do we know your kid didn't chip his tooth doing something else; your kid wouldn't be hurt if he weren't so clumsy; etc.
Prepare yourself so you can decide in advance how you want to handle this when they act as if nothing happened.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2016 16:33:28 GMT -5
If my kid caused that injury, in addition to dealing with his loutish behavior, I'd definitely offer to pay. You should also check with your medical carrier. They do provide coverage for teeth in some cases when the treatment is the result of injury.
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aprilleigh
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Post by aprilleigh on May 11, 2016 16:52:05 GMT -5
I'm really surprised the other parents haven't called yet to see how your son is. Assuming they knew your son was hurt enough to need to seek treatment (and it's unclear from the OP if the other parents knew your son needed to see a dentist, sometimes kids are hurt but don't need to see a doc), it's a bad sign that they didn't call to check.
If they knew your son needed to go to get medical care and didn't call all week, unfortunately you should probably prepare yourself that they are the jerk types that are not going to voluntarily take any responsibility. Even if they didn't feel their kid was at fault or should pay, it's basic decency if your kid is involved in an accident where the other kid is hurt that you check on how the other kid is doing. The fact that they didn't do that doesn't bode well.
So yes, I think they should at least have called to check; yes, if it were my kid I'd have offered to pay; yes, it sounds like the other kid owes you an apology; but no - they probably aren't going to do any of that. Some people are jerks. And they'll hide behind denials. Denials like: hey, things happen in sports; how do we know your kid didn't chip his tooth doing something else; your kid wouldn't be hurt if he weren't so clumsy; etc.
Prepare yourself so you can decide in advance how you want to handle this when they act as if nothing happened.
Actually, fair point: I'm not sure they knew HOW bad it was. Gavin said he spit blood and bits of tooth out, but the kid may not have seen, and my husband hustled him out pretty quick once he saw the blood and bits of tooth. The coach called last night, and I think he didn't realize the tooth was broken ... so I don't feel as weird...
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on May 11, 2016 16:59:17 GMT -5
Actually, fair point: I'm not sure they knew HOW bad it was. Gavin said he spit blood and bits of tooth out, but the kid may not have seen, and my husband hustled him out pretty quick once he saw the blood and bits of tooth. The coach called last night, and I think he didn't realize the tooth was broken ... so I don't feel as weird... So then given what you have written here, I think you really do owe it to the parents to let them know the extend of the injury. Yes, they might be jerks who get defensive, blame your son and refuse to take responsibility, but then again they might also be horrified at what their kid did to another. If I were the parent of that kid, I would want to know so I could take appropriate action. But I get it that every parent is not like me .
JMHO I believe you owe them the information in a calm, fact-like manner. The wild card here is what they will do with that information. If there's one thing we've learned from these Boards it's that we have absolutely no control over the feelings and actions of others.
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aprilleigh
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Post by aprilleigh on May 11, 2016 17:17:57 GMT -5
Actually, fair point: I'm not sure they knew HOW bad it was. Gavin said he spit blood and bits of tooth out, but the kid may not have seen, and my husband hustled him out pretty quick once he saw the blood and bits of tooth. The coach called last night, and I think he didn't realize the tooth was broken ... so I don't feel as weird... So then given what you have written here, I think you really do owe it to the parents to let them know the extend of the injury. Yes, they might be jerks who get defensive, blame your son and refuse to take responsibility, but then again they might also be horrified at what their kid did to another. If I were the parent of that kid, I would want to know so I could take appropriate action. But I get it that every parent is not like me .
JMHO I believe you owe them the information in a calm, fact-like manner. The wild card here is what they will do with that information. If there's one thing we've learned from these Boards it's that we have absolutely no control over the feelings and actions of others.
Usually, my husband and I trade off taking the kid to practice ... I think we'll both go tomorrow, to get a feel for the situation. If it's tense, he can deal with! If not, I can. LOL!
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on May 11, 2016 17:31:53 GMT -5
1) I thought most leagues have liability insurance, but you are expected to pay for any injuries. I would check with them, but I doubt you will get anything from them 2) It sounds likely that the coach/assistant did not realize that he was hurt enough to require medical attention 3) The kids sounds like a jerk. It is very likely that his parents are jerks also 4) If you bring it up to other kids parents, I would say it is likely they will say it is your kids fault (wasn't pay attention or something like that).
I would just pay for it myself. Injuries in sports happen. Practice and games. While you think this other kid is to blame, a lot of others probably think differently.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on May 11, 2016 17:56:32 GMT -5
I just know if I was there and witnessed that, I'd definitely be screaming on that kid - regardless of if his parents were there or not.
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aprilleigh
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Post by aprilleigh on May 11, 2016 18:00:17 GMT -5
1) I thought most leagues have liability insurance, but you are expected to pay for any injuries. I would check with them, but I doubt you will get anything from them 2) It sounds likely that the coach/assistant did not realize that he was hurt enough to require medical attention 3) The kids sounds like a jerk. It is very likely that his parents are jerks also 4) If you bring it up to other kids parents, I would say it is likely they will say it is your kids fault (wasn't pay attention or something like that). I would just pay for it myself. Injuries in sports happen. Practice and games. While you think this other kid is to blame, a lot of others probably think differently. That's exactly what I'm thinking. It would be nice if they offer, but ultimately, it's my responsibility. They could also say it wouldn't have happened if my kid was a better player, so...
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on May 11, 2016 18:04:05 GMT -5
1) I thought most leagues have liability insurance, but you are expected to pay for any injuries. I would check with them, but I doubt you will get anything from them 2) It sounds likely that the coach/assistant did not realize that he was hurt enough to require medical attention 3) The kids sounds like a jerk. It is very likely that his parents are jerks also 4) If you bring it up to other kids parents, I would say it is likely they will say it is your kids fault (wasn't pay attention or something like that). I would just pay for it myself. Injuries in sports happen. Practice and games. While you think this other kid is to blame, a lot of others probably think differently. That's exactly what I'm thinking. It would be nice if they offer, but ultimately, it's my responsibility. They could also say it wouldn't have happened if my kid was a better player, so... It also wouldn't have happened if the kid hadn't deliberately body-checked your kid, just sayin' . . . .
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 11, 2016 18:34:27 GMT -5
Was any parent possibly video/filming the game at the time and might have caught the body check on film? Instant replay often clears up issues and disputes.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 11, 2016 18:43:16 GMT -5
I would pay, but I would also bring up the poor behavior of the coaches to whoever is running the league.
These parents that coach, coach that particular sport with their child until the child no longer does it or outgrows a parent coach. So, it's likely your son is going to be dealing with the same personalities if he chooses to continue with basketball.
There's no excuse over the poor sportsmanship the team is displaying. And yes, I would be upset about that.
If the parents offer to pay for the bill, let them.. Not every family believes that kids should work things off. Some think writing a check is enough.
Personally, we'd offer to pay, and then I would be deciding how to discipline my kid at home. Because it would be a lot worse than just mowing a lawn.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on May 11, 2016 18:47:58 GMT -5
I don't have a kid or play sports, so that is my disclaimer. I would be complaining to the league to let them know that the other kid had injured my kid. If he doesn't have any consequences he will probably injure more kids in the future.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 11, 2016 20:46:35 GMT -5
I would think they would at least ask how he is doing. I dont think I would want him mowing. Too much liability there i think. But if this is school sponsored you may be able to file a claim thru them.
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milee
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Post by milee on May 12, 2016 6:49:27 GMT -5
Based on your update - that the other parents probably didn't realize that your son was injured that badly - it's not necessarily a sign one way or the other that the parents didn't call to check. Minor injuries happen in sports and they're not necessarily the fault of anyone, so it's very possible the other parents didn't know that this wasn't minor and/or that it was tied to their son and/or that it was tied to their son but not part of normal actions in practice.
There are a couple of separate issues here and you might want to think about and address them separately. Once money is involved, it may influence how the other issues are dealt with, so if you think the other issues are important deal with them first.
Other kid's behavior - IMHO, this is the big one. First, you and your husband should have an idea of what resolution you'd like here regarding the other kid - apology, benching, chores, etc. Not the money, just what you'd like to see happen from and to the other kid. Try to base your resolution on the team practices. In other words, if another kid has been unsportsmanlike, how was s/he dealt with? The more in line with team or league practices your request is, the more likely it is to happen.
Ask for a meeting first with the head coach to talk about the other kid's pattern of bad sportsmanship. Describe the history ending with what happened last week. The key here is to stay very level and calm in the discussion. You'll be very effective if you can just describe specific examples of the other kid's behavior and leave out commentary and references to brattiness or your kid's right to safety; not that those aren't necessarily true, but you don't want the coach to peg you as an overprotective helicopter mom. You will already be at a slight disadvantage if you don't know about sports since the coach may assume that you aren't aware of what is and isn't normal team behavior and injury. Just stick to the facts so coach has a good understanding of the situation. At the end of your description of the situation, tell the coach what resolution you'd like.
Money - when largish sums of money involved, the $$$ can dominate the discussion and sway the actions of people. For example, if the head coach thinks the other kid was a brat, but that his actions weren't "$500 bratty" or if he knows the other family is struggling financially he may be tempted to let things go so that the other parents aren't on the hook. Similarly, the other parents might defend or justify their son's actions if they believe they'll have to reimburse you a large amount of money. This is why it's important to leave the money talk until after you've solved the behavior issue. After you've discussed the behavior issue (again, not yet talking about money) with the head coach, listen to his response. If he agrees with your request about disciplining the other kid, that's also an indication that he believes the other kid's actions were wrong and the other family is responsible. Get the head coach's reaction to the behavior first and based on that, then have the talk about the money.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 12, 2016 8:40:51 GMT -5
I would discuss it with bratty kid's parents at the next game - they will probably apologize but I don't know if they would offer to pay. They may take the attitude there are inherent dangers in participating in any sport.
In my experience with DS's athletics over the years, there are coaches who are interested in having all the kids play an equal amount, learning the rules, learning good sportsmanship and having fun. Then there are coaches who act like their salary depends on whether their team wins or not, and those kinds of coaches generally overlook any unsportsmanlike conduct if it's being done by their kids or by the kids who are the 'stars' of the team, and they ignore the kids that aren't playing as well, benching them or only playing them when the outcome of the game is already decided.
From what you described it sounds like your DS's coaches are of the second kind, and if they are, I don't think they will punish one of their star players due to rough or bullying behavior on the court. There are only two weeks left, I would ride this out and see if I could get my son into a team with a different coach (one of the good kinds) next year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2016 11:05:56 GMT -5
You need to discuss this with the coaches regardless. That way they know this kid has deliberately caused an injury and they've been forewarned. If they allow him to continue to "play" that way and someone else gets injured, the team/league could end up in a nasty lawsuit.
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techguy
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Post by techguy on May 12, 2016 13:37:59 GMT -5
Wow, so many righteous YMers that are willing to pay from only hearing 1 side of the story and weren't even there to witness the incident...
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CCL
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Post by CCL on May 12, 2016 15:04:34 GMT -5
1) I thought most leagues have liability insurance, but you are expected to pay for any injuries. I would check with them, but I doubt you will get anything from them 2) It sounds likely that the coach/assistant did not realize that he was hurt enough to require medical attention 3) The kids sounds like a jerk. It is very likely that his parents are jerks also 4) If you bring it up to other kids parents, I would say it is likely they will say it is your kids fault (wasn't pay attention or something like that). I would just pay for it myself. Injuries in sports happen. Practice and games. While you think this other kid is to blame, a lot of others probably think differently. When my kids were in sports, there was frequently, but not always a waiver that was signed, assuming responsibility for your own injuries. We had our share and paid for them ourselves, regardless.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 12, 2016 16:31:16 GMT -5
I would like to hear a less biased version of the story before I really form an opinion. Getting hurt is common in sports, and I believe that each parent is responsible for their child's medical bills. If you start a culture of assigning blame and seeking payment, you are digging a terrible hole. Pushing, shoving, stopping short, etc, are part of the game. How can you really say any action was vicious and malicious or just good play?
What you might want to research is if there are any other leagues that are less competitive. We have some that are intense and others that are more laid back. It is best to match your kid to the best group. It makes everyone happier.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on May 12, 2016 18:23:45 GMT -5
I would like to hear a less biased version of the story before I really form an opinion. Getting hurt is common in sports, and I believe that each parent is responsible for their child's medical bills. If you start a culture of assigning blame and seeking payment, you are digging a terrible hole. Pushing, shoving, stopping short, etc, are part of the game. How can you really say any action was vicious and malicious or just good play? What you might want to research is if there are any other leagues that are less competitive. We have some that are intense and others that are more laid back. It is best to match your kid to the best group. It makes everyone happier. Why should she have her kid find a new league if one kid is being a jerk? IMO it's not about the money, it's about the coach's son being unnecessarily rough and mean. Wanting to play without people trying to hurt you on purpose shouldn't be too much to ask.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 12, 2016 18:51:53 GMT -5
The sentence I read first was that kidS on his team don't include him in the game because he isn't up to par. And one kid is really a jerk. She didnt make it sound like all the choldren are lovely and encouraging and just that one guy is a problem. Instead of being the worst kid on a competitive team, her son might have a lot more fun on a lower level team. He might get more time on the ball and develop some skill, or get more playing time and more exercise.
Regardless of the 'everyone gets a trophy' debate we all have, team sports can be brutal. It is pretty easy to see who the weak link is, and kids from the team don't feel it is their duty to lose so that kid doesn't get his feelings hurt. Many perfectly lovely children will figure out to not repeat a losing strategy - like passing to the kid that doesn't have the same skills as the other 3 teammates.
I am NOT saying the coaches kid was acting appropriately. I am just saying that as you age up in sports things get more and more competitive, and kids like to play with people who are at the same level as they are. It makes for a more fun game. If her son is not up to par, even if this jerk kid moves to another state, the team probably won't embrace him and joyfully laugh off his game losing mistakes.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 12, 2016 18:55:21 GMT -5
Also, as a reluctant sports mom, I notice that when someone else's kid does something, it is unnecessarily rough and out of line, but when one's own child does something it is "playing the game." I really can't tell how much of a jerk this kid was being. Mom might have a bias.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 12, 2016 19:54:29 GMT -5
Basketball is a contact sport. People think it isn't but it absolutely is. Now of course, there is legal contact and contact that is a foul, unintentional, intentional or flagrant. Intentional or flagrant fouls can get you ejected from the game. I cannot overemphasize how important and serious it is to have GOOD reffing. Far too often, basketball leagues are started and instead of finding and paying trained refs, they just hire coaches or some kids to ref. Poor reffing, where fouls are not called, quickly turns into a very violent game. Good reffing allows fair play and keeps the game safe. Although accidents are still going to happen. As for practice, I do not allow any parents in the gym when i run my practices. Parents can observe outside through the door or window, but no parents in the gym.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 12, 2016 19:57:44 GMT -5
Background: My 9-year-old son is playing in his 2nd season of basketball. He's not very good.... some kids on his team will never ever pass to him, game or practice, because it almost immediately results in a turn-over (I don't know sports, but I think that's a thing). There is 1 kid in particular (asst. coaches son, by the way, and he and his wife have noticed this behavior) that has just been a little turd to my son all season. Yelling at him, deliberately ignoring him, "guarding" rather aggressively, making fun of him for not being very good ... Incident: Monday night at practice, the little turd kid was just having the worst attitude. Stopping around when he missed his shots, seriously chucking the ball at other kids when he was "out" during Bump Out and Around the World, trash talking... so my son was guarding him during a drill, and the kid took off running down the court, my son followed, then the kid stopped dead in his tracks and shoulder-checked my son. Which resulted in a broken tooth! We weren't sure if it was an injury that could wait til normal office hours, so we saw an emergency dentist ... $468 later, he has a temporary little cap on the broken tooth and a follow-up appt for more x-rays. Questions: 1.) If your kid hurt another kid, would you offer to reimburse? 2.) If your kid got hurt by another kid, would you expect the other parents to offer to reimburse you? If they did, would you accept? 3.) Should the kid that did the sort-of-on-accident hurting have to "work it off"? I'm inclined to accept a heart-felt apology, if offered. And I HOPE that his parents pull him for the rest of the season (only 2 weeks). But, I'm not going to ask for / demand anything. I just know that that's what I would do if my kid was the jerk. I'm ok with having a bad day, but your right to be a brat ends where other kids' right to safety begins! I don't know if I would accept reimbursement from the parents, if offered. Maybe half? I figure, this is what emergency funds are for, right?? And sort of goes with the territory of sports? But if the roles were reversed, I would absolutely offer to pay ... especially because of the bad attitudes / escalation of being a brat. On the other hand, my husband thinks he would counter-offer having the kid mow our (tiny) lawn for the summer. We'll see them again at practice tomorrow night, so nothing has come up yet. Just thinking things through! Guarding aggressively. That is absolutely acceptable. Yelling at your son, calling him names, and making fun of him, absolutely NOT.
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