Can this be fought- inheritance stuff

[emma1420]

Apr 14, 2016 14:18:17 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

But if Aunt did have a will leaving house to son, wouldn't dil inherit his portion

Son died before he could inherit.  So it skips over him and goes to the next blood relative if there isn't anything in the will stating otherwise.

If the AUNT went first then the son would have inherited the house.  If the son passed away AFTER he inherited yes she'd be entitled to the house as his spouse.

But that's not how it went.   The widow is not entitled to the AUNT'S estate unless the aunt addressed it in her will.   The next living blood relative is entitled to the estate if the original person listed is deceased.

If DH's parents die first then he gets a share of the estate.  If DH dies first I am not entitled to anything b/c I am not listed in the will.  My kids would inherit since they are next in line.

That's what happened with my Uncle.  His son died before him, and his DIL inherited everything, because his son made sure that my Uncle's will indicated that before the son died. 

But, in my family's case, the hurt reaction was because there were family members much closer to my uncle (both via blood and just giving a crap) who didn't inherit a thing.  Anytime someone passes on and has money/assets then someone is going to feel left out or passed over.  I think it's unusual to actually have someone die and not have someone feeling like that they were entitled to something that they didn't get.

[kittensaver]

Apr 14, 2016 15:32:03 GMT -5 emma1420 said:

Apr 14, 2016 14:18:17 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

 I think it's unusual to actually have someone die and not have someone feeling like that they were entitled to something that they didn't get.

[Tiny]

Apr 14, 2016 12:30:41 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Apr 14, 2016 12:18:09 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

If the aunt had died before her son, her son normally would've inherited even if the aunt didn't leave a will.  If the son then died, it would have gone to his wife.

And how is it "unfair"?

I get the timeline and how it would have been different if aunt died before son... But how is it "unfair"?

She did not buy the house, she did not own it, as far as we know was not promised it. So how is it unfair that she did not get it?

It may be 'unfair' from the Daughter-in-law's point of view... she (and perhaps her hubby and even the Aunt) may have assumed that if what happened happened (the order of the deaths) the DIL would get the house.     When you plan out your life assuming something is going to happen and then it doesn't it's quite possible that you will feel cheated or treated unfairly.

The DIL might not be a money grabbing gold digger - she (and the Aunt and her hubby) probably had little to no idea that this would play out this way.    

Another reason why it's important to have a Will - which implies you've thought about where your 'stuff' would wind up in the case of your untimely demise.

[mollyanna58]

Let this be a reminder to everyone to make sure you'd important documents are up to date, including beneficiaries on life insurance and retirement accounts.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

To be fair to the aunt nobody really considers their child going before them.

We don't know the time frame between the son's death and hers.   Her health may have declined to where even if she had changed her will in time it may not have stood up in court.   "Caring for her" could mean anything from simple old age related issues to cancer to dementia. 

She was also under no obligations to leave the house to her DIL.   It may have been a nice/generous thing to do but she does not have to do it.   My in-laws will is set up so things bypass the spouses.  If DH goes first everything skips over me and goes to the grand kids.

I don't fault my in laws for having it set up that way.  Shit happens and you might not get a chance to correct your will in time.  Having it set up this way to begin with ensures the money goes to who they want it to no matter what.

If they were alive and DH passed then yes they would probably provide for me to an extent, but I am not entitled to their estate.  It's their right to have it go to the grand kids should DH pass first.

[haapai]

This is a bit of a tangent, and more than a bit morbid and mechanical, but to lawyers ever avail themselves of software that aides them in figuring out what will happen if someone named in a will dies before the testator?  I know that lawyers are expected to know this stuff cold, and it's certainly bad business to ever let on that such software might exist, but does it?  If it exists, does it work well, is it easy to use, reliable, or useful? 

[swamp]

Apr 15, 2016 9:50:13 GMT -5 haapai said:

This is a bit of a tangent, and more than a bit morbid and mechanical, but to lawyers ever avail themselves of software that aides them in figuring out what will happen if someone named in a will dies before the testator?  I know that lawyers are expected to know this stuff cold, and it's certainly bad business to ever let on that such software might exist, but does it?  If it exists, does it work well, is it easy to use, reliable, or useful? 

It's called "read the statute."

There is also Westlaw and Lexis.

[sarcasticgirl]

Apr 15, 2016 12:30:49 GMT -5 swamp said:

Apr 15, 2016 9:50:13 GMT -5 haapai said:

This is a bit of a tangent, and more than a bit morbid and mechanical, but to lawyers ever avail themselves of software that aides them in figuring out what will happen if someone named in a will dies before the testator?  I know that lawyers are expected to know this stuff cold, and it's certainly bad business to ever let on that such software might exist, but does it?  If it exists, does it work well, is it easy to use, reliable, or useful? 

It's called "read the statute."

There is also Westlaw and Lexis.

I was about to say Westlaw and Lexis are used regularly for research. 

[bobosensei]

Wow, this got a lot of responses.  Yes Cousin J was Aunt's only son.  Aunt was pretty sick for many years brain tumors, strokes and the like.  Cousin J's widow did a lot to care for her.  DH's uncle was going to sign the quitclaim until FIL called him and emotionally manipulated him into not doing it.  I imagine he is uncomfortable with the situation, but chose to go with his brother over the widow.  

I don't know if the widow has the money to fight this, and there aren't really any relatives left to disapprove.  I mean FIL won't care if the rest of his cousins think he's terrible.

I know this is life, and I should never be surprised at the lengths FIL goes to.

[TheHaitian]

Apr 15, 2016 20:39:23 GMT -5 bobosensei said:

Wow, this got a lot of responses.  Yes Cousin J was Aunt's only son.  Aunt was pretty sick for many years brain tumors, strokes and the like.  Cousin J's widow did a lot to care for her.  DH's uncle was going to sign the quitclaim until FIL called him and emotionally manipulated him into not doing it.  I imagine he is uncomfortable with the situation, but chose to go with his brother over the widow.  

I don't know if the widow has the money to fight this, and there aren't really any relatives left to disapprove.  I mean FIL won't care if the rest of his cousins think he's terrible.

I know this is life, and I should never be surprised at the lengths FIL goes to.

Why is the FIL is being made to look like a bad guy in this?
Uncle is free to quit claim his share, the widow will just own 50% of the house and FIL 50%

FIL is going after property that is legally his yet he is made to be the villain in the story.

[mollyanna58]

FIL is greedy.  He never thought he would inherit this place because his sister had heirs. His brother was willing to give the cousin's widow his share, but FIL talked him into not doing the right thing.

And I know that you, TheHaitian, see nothing wrong with this.  Explain the situation to your wife and ask her opinion. 

[TheHaitian]

Apr 16, 2016 8:13:43 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

FIL is greedy.  He never thought he would inherit this place because his sister had heirs. His brother was willing to give the cousin's widow his share, but FIL talked him into not doing the right thing.

And I know that you, TheHaitian, see nothing wrong with this.  Explain the situation to your wife and ask her opinion. 

And the DIL is not greedy for wanting a house she did not inherit and asking them to quit claim it ?

Both sides are being greedy for wanting something they did not buy or own. At least the FIL has the law on his side and is legally entitled to it.

[TheHaitian]

Also my wife agrees with me! Why?

Because we are going through this with her childhood house. It was her grandparents house and her mom never left and by default ended up living in the house.

40 years later she added a second floor with her own money, rebuilt it after the earthquake with her own money, upgraded the house but if she died tomorrow my wife would have to either:
- buy out the other 3 sisters
- sell the house and divide the profit between the 3 sisters.

My wife is an sentimentalist and would like to keep the house for our kids or when we retire (it is in Haiti); it is the house both her mom and her grew up in. Her mom already willed her share of the house to us, we hope within the next 5-10 years to buy out the 3 sisters before her mom
Past away and it becomes a big cluster fuck.

The reason we are doing that is we saw the cluster fuck it was when one of the sisters past away 6 years ago and had no heirs. One sister rushed to her house and destroyed her will (no proof) she had listing all her belongings, deducting from that sister money she has loaned her etc.

Bigger cluster is all their properties and land in Haiti is from inheritances so all the sister owns them together and after the last cluster fuck they have been selling some of them off to clean up house and dividing the money now to not leave a bigger mess for future generation. My wife wants her childhood house but only 25% of it is legally her moms.

Is it fair since she lived in it since she was 21 and took it over? Added on to it, rebuilt it after it was destroyed from the earthquake, did some major updates recently? Raised her daughter in it? For 44 years....

Not fair but it is legally what it is. She cannot throw a tantrum and cry injustice if her mom passed away tomorrow and the remaining 3 sisters want the house sold so they can have the money.

[haapai]

Your husband's uncle might be fighting this.  Quitclaiming his half of house would lead to an awkward situation where your FIL and his nephew's widow both own 50% of the house.  That's a bad recipe.  Visiting the widow after the house is sold and handing over a check for $14K and repeating as necessary might be the better thing to do in such a situation.  Given the 15 hour travel time that you mentioned, he might even be able to pull this off without your FIL ever knowing about it.  

It has to be distressing to find out that your FIL thinks so little of non-reproducing in-laws.  Do you have kids? 

[TheHaitian]

Apr 16, 2016 8:54:01 GMT -5 haapai said:

It has to be distressing to find out that your FIL thinks so little of non-reproducing in-laws.  Do you have kids? 

How is it thinking little of non-reproducing in laws?
If she had a kid if would not be an issue, the MIL would have had an heir!

But my wife can pop out 10 kids tomorrow and her aunts still would not sign over their share to the family home just because her mom lived there 40 something years and my wife was raised there 18 years... And her mom took care of her dying father that almost chocked her to death battling dementia (here you go for sentimental value) in her 20's while her 4 sisters were living it up in NY, getting married, having a life and she was stuck taking care of an ailing father at 21.

DIL get to look good (when she is just as greedy if you ask me) because her husband happened to die before his mom so she gets nothing?

[haapai]

I took most of that from the second paragraph of the OP.  

I'm also perfectly aware that the facts on the ground might be slightly different than "self-effacing, widowed caretaker ... cheated by fate, promised, bad luck ... tragic ...."  Legally, she's not entitled to anything.  It's also entirely possible that she and her husband have been freeloading and/or leeching off the aunt for decades. 

[tallguy]

Apr 16, 2016 8:53:39 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Also my wife agrees with me! Why?

Because we are going through this with her childhood house. It was her grandparents house and her mom never left and by default ended up living in the house.

40 years later she added a second floor with her own money, rebuilt it after the earthquake with her own money, upgraded the house but if she died tomorrow my wife would have to either:
- buy out the other 3 sisters
- sell the house and divide the profit between the 3 sisters.

My wife is an sentimentalist and would like to keep the house for our kids or when we retire (it is in Haiti); it is the house both her mom and her grew up in. Her mom already willed her share of the house to us, we hope within the next 5-10 years to buy out the 3 sisters before her mom
Past away and it becomes a big cluster fuck.

The reason we are doing that is we saw the cluster fuck it was when one of the sisters past away 6 years ago and had no heirs. One sister rushed to her house and destroyed her will (no proof) she had listing all her belongings, deducting from that sister money she has loaned her etc.

Bigger cluster is all their properties and land in Haiti is from inheritances so all the sister owns them together and after the last cluster fuck they have been selling some of them off to clean up house and dividing the money now to not leave a bigger mess for future generation. My wife wants her childhood house but only 25% of it is legally her moms.

Is it fair since she lived in it since she was 21 and took it over? Added on to it, rebuilt it after it was destroyed from the earthquake, did some major updates recently? Raised her daughter in it? For 44 years....

Not fair but it is legally what it is. She cannot throw a tantrum and cry injustice if her mom passed away tomorrow and the remaining 3 sisters want the house sold so they can have the money.

Yes, if you want to keep the house you buy out the siblings.  That is what I did.  It was talked about in the family for years that that is what would happen.  The bigger question in your situation is why in the hell didn't your MIL do that originally?  How is it possible that she could live in the house for 44 years, rebuild it, do some major upgrades, and NOT have bought out her sisters originally?  Does anybody in your family have a financial brain at all?

Best thing for you would be for the MIL to buy out her sisters now, particularly when she is apparently receiving proceeds from the sales of other properties.  Unfortunately for you, she has absolutely no incentive to do this, since she would be depriving herself of monies now while the only real benefit would accrue to your wife later on.  If it could be done though, a sensible option would be to subtract the cost of improvements from the home's value, and then divide the remaining total among the siblings.  As an example, if the home's value is $150,000 and the MIL has done $50,000 worth of improvements, that gets subtracted first.  The remaining $100,000 is divided among the four sisters, so that each share is worth $25,000.  Buy each out for that amount.  Do it in pieces if she has to.  One sister this year, one next year, whatever.  Or you do it.  Pay each off when they quitclaim their interest.    

[beergut]

Apr 14, 2016 6:11:10 GMT -5 bobosensei said:

DH just told me that his dad and uncle stand to inherit their aunt's house.  Apparently they found out recently when someone sent them a quit claim or something to sign over ownership to their aunt's daughter in law.  Here's what happened.  Their cousin J died several months back, he was married and had no kids.  The Aunt recently died, but FIL and his brother are her closest living blood relatives.  The widow and aunt were grieving and I am sure no one even thought or had time to do anything to make sure the house went to the widow.

FIL and his brother were both supposedly close to cousin J even though FIL lives like 15 hours away and hardly saw them.  But he wants the money.  He "shamed" his brother into not signing his stuff over.  It makes me pretty sick.  If they were so close to J why would they do that to his cousin's relatively recent widow.  I mean I know italian culture doesn't value women who don't have kids, so I guess they feel that even though she took care of their aunt for years that because she didn't create a blood relative that she is nothing to anyone, not even real family anymore since J died.

I hope she sues, but have no idea whether she could actually make a case...

Your bigotry and ignorance did not go unnoticed. 

[hoops902]

Apr 15, 2016 20:39:23 GMT -5 bobosensei said:

Wow, this got a lot of responses.  Yes Cousin J was Aunt's only son.  Aunt was pretty sick for many years brain tumors, strokes and the like.  Cousin J's widow did a lot to care for her.  DH's uncle was going to sign the quitclaim until FIL called him and emotionally manipulated him into not doing it.  I imagine he is uncomfortable with the situation, but chose to go with his brother over the widow.  

I don't know if the widow has the money to fight this, and there aren't really any relatives left to disapprove.  I mean FIL won't care if the rest of his cousins think he's terrible.

I know this is life, and I should never be surprised at the lengths FIL goes to.

What lengths?  The lengths to get what he rightfully deserves rather than giving it to someone else who says they want it?

Will you give me your house? I'd like to have it please.

I'm not sure why he is perceived to be in the wrong for being unwilling to give away something of his to someone who just decided they wanted it.  It's HIS.  I'd be trying to talk my sibling into not giving away our stuff too.  You don't have to give your stuff away to someone just because they say they want it.  That doesn't make you a bad person. 

[kittensaver]

Apr 16, 2016 16:07:28 GMT -5 beergut said:

Apr 14, 2016 6:11:10 GMT -5 bobosensei said:

DH just told me that his dad and uncle stand to inherit their aunt's house.  Apparently they found out recently when someone sent them a quit claim or something to sign over ownership to their aunt's daughter in law.  Here's what happened.  Their cousin J died several months back, he was married and had no kids.  The Aunt recently died, but FIL and his brother are her closest living blood relatives.  The widow and aunt were grieving and I am sure no one even thought or had time to do anything to make sure the house went to the widow.

FIL and his brother were both supposedly close to cousin J even though FIL lives like 15 hours away and hardly saw them.  But he wants the money.  He "shamed" his brother into not signing his stuff over.  It makes me pretty sick.  If they were so close to J why would they do that to his cousin's relatively recent widow.  I mean I know italian culture doesn't value women who don't have kids, so I guess they feel that even though she took care of their aunt for years that because she didn't create a blood relative that she is nothing to anyone, not even real family anymore since J died.

I hope she sues, but have no idea whether she could actually make a case...

Your bigotry and ignorance did not go unnoticed. 

Among the old world, non-American-enculturated persons - - she is correct! (unfortunately). It is not bigotry, it is the way old world families think (I know - I come from one of them).

A woman with a child has value. To have a "mamoni" (a mama's boy - an unmarried son of any age still living at home to whom you can cater) is one of the highlights of an older Italian woman's reason for being. It is like a badge of honor for both of them.

An unmarried woman who is a drudge caring for aging relatives is merely earning her keep because someone in the family has an obligation to put a roof over her head. In their minds, there is no reason to leave her an inheritance. Inheritances go to sons and grandsons who will keep the family line going.

Yeah - so glad I don't live in the old world . . . .

[andi9899]

Apr 16, 2016 8:53:39 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Also my wife agrees with me! Why?

Because we are going through this with her childhood house. It was her grandparents house and her mom never left and by default ended up living in the house.

40 years later she added a second floor with her own money, rebuilt it after the earthquake with her own money, upgraded the house but if she died tomorrow my wife would have to either:
- buy out the other 3 sisters
- sell the house and divide the profit between the 3 sisters.

My wife is an sentimentalist and would like to keep the house for our kids or when we retire (it is in Haiti); it is the house both her mom and her grew up in. Her mom already willed her share of the house to us, we hope within the next 5-10 years to buy out the 3 sisters before her mom
Past away and it becomes a big cluster fuck.

The reason we are doing that is we saw the cluster fuck it was when one of the sisters past away 6 years ago and had no heirs. One sister rushed to her house and destroyed her will (no proof) she had listing all her belongings, deducting from that sister money she has loaned her etc.

Bigger cluster is all their properties and land in Haiti is from inheritances so all the sister owns them together and after the last cluster fuck they have been selling some of them off to clean up house and dividing the money now to not leave a bigger mess for future generation. My wife wants her childhood house but only 25% of it is legally her moms.

Is it fair since she lived in it since she was 21 and took it over? Added on to it, rebuilt it after it was destroyed from the earthquake, did some major updates recently? Raised her daughter in it? For 44 years....

Not fair but it is legally what it is. She cannot throw a tantrum and cry injustice if her mom passed away tomorrow and the remaining 3 sisters want the house sold so they can have the money.

I thought your MIL lived with you. Am I mistaken?

[Deleted]

My 76-year-old aunt died in Florida back in the early 1990s.   She had pretty much cut herself off from her family--her husband was dead, she had no children, my father (her youngest brother) was dead, her other brother was an ex-con that caused her major grief with the IRS for decades (where did he put the bearer bonds he stole?), and she hated her sister.

A young woman befriended her, maybe because she had money or maybe to be nice.  She took her to the doctor, etc. and paid attention to her.  The young woman thought she would be inheriting everything.

My aunt, who was a lawyer, tore up (I guess . . . or the young woman did . . . who knows) the will she had made leaving everything equally between my cousin and me.  She totally left my sister out.  My sister made the mistake of visiting her, and she took a disliking to her on the basis of a single visit.  Supposedly, she made out a new will in favor of the young woman.  But no one found it.  (She didn't make it . . . or my aunt tore it up . . . who knows).  My sister, cousin, and I went through as much as possible before my cousin's mom took over.

I learned then how definitively some people feel about family money and property passing to blood relatives.  They did pay the young woman off but as cheaply as possible.  My aunt and uncle fought tooth-and-nail at first to make sure she got nothing.  Some of it was greed, but some of it was family trumps anyone else.  I think they would have disinherited my sister and me (younger generation doesn't count) if they could have.  But we were inheriting our father's share. 

I suspect the OP's father is like that.

[TheHaitian]

Apr 18, 2016 16:47:58 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Apr 16, 2016 8:53:39 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Also my wife agrees with me! Why?

Because we are going through this with her childhood house. It was her grandparents house and her mom never left and by default ended up living in the house.

40 years later she added a second floor with her own money, rebuilt it after the earthquake with her own money, upgraded the house but if she died tomorrow my wife would have to either:
- buy out the other 3 sisters
- sell the house and divide the profit between the 3 sisters.

My wife is an sentimentalist and would like to keep the house for our kids or when we retire (it is in Haiti); it is the house both her mom and her grew up in. Her mom already willed her share of the house to us, we hope within the next 5-10 years to buy out the 3 sisters before her mom
Past away and it becomes a big cluster fuck.

The reason we are doing that is we saw the cluster fuck it was when one of the sisters past away 6 years ago and had no heirs. One sister rushed to her house and destroyed her will (no proof) she had listing all her belongings, deducting from that sister money she has loaned her etc.

Bigger cluster is all their properties and land in Haiti is from inheritances so all the sister owns them together and after the last cluster fuck they have been selling some of them off to clean up house and dividing the money now to not leave a bigger mess for future generation. My wife wants her childhood house but only 25% of it is legally her moms.

Is it fair since she lived in it since she was 21 and took it over? Added on to it, rebuilt it after it was destroyed from the earthquake, did some major updates recently? Raised her daughter in it? For 44 years....

Not fair but it is legally what it is. She cannot throw a tantrum and cry injustice if her mom passed away tomorrow and the remaining 3 sisters want the house sold so they can have the money.

I thought your MIL lived with you. Am I mistaken?

In the USA yes, but owns rental properties/home, land with her sisters (or solely) in Haiti.

Both my wife and I were raised in Haiti and came here for college...

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Apr 16, 2016 8:13:43 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

FIL is greedy.  He never thought he would inherit this place because his sister had heirs. His brother was willing to give the cousin's widow his share, but FIL talked him into not doing the right thing.

And I know that you, TheHaitian , see nothing wrong with this.  Explain the situation to your wife and ask her opinion. 

Why is FIL greedy?   There could be a lot of reasons why they don't want the DIL to inherit the house that you have no knowledge of.   Maybe DIL isn't the saintly care taker that she is being made out to be in the thread.

Just b/c she was married to the son doesn't mean she is entitled to the AUNT'S house. 

[milee]

Without knowing the details of the living and caring situation, it would be very tough to know if it were reasonable for the DIL to inherit the house.  Some examples of possible situations. 

Scenario #1 - DIL and Son Paid Rent Plus Provided Caregiving/Sacrificed Job

If DIL had given up a career or other income opportunities to care for her husband's mother and she+her husband paid rent to the husband's mother for living there, then it would seem very reasonable and fair that in return the husband's mother would promise her the house in return.

Scenario #2 - DIL and Son Did Not Pay Rent, But Provided Caregiving/Sacrificed Job

If DIL had given up a career or other income opportunities to care for her husband's mother and she+her husband DID NOT PAY rent to the husband's mother for living there, then it is a little less clear if it was fair that the DIL inherit the house.  After all, the DIL and her husband lived in the house free of rent or other costs and it could be viewed that the caregiving DIL gave was in exchange for the value of free rent, so nothing more is owed. 

Scenario #3 - DIL and Son Did Not Pay Rent, Provided Caregiving but did not Sacrifice Job
If DIL didn't give up a career or other income opportunities to care for her husband's mother (ie - she was already not working so she didn't give up income to start caring for MIL) or they just provided some caregiving occasionally during the week outside their normal jobs and she+her husband DID NOT PAY rent to the husband's mother for living there, then it is a lot less clear if it was fair that the DIL inherit the house. After all, the DIL and her husband lived in the house free of rent or other costs and it could be viewed that the caregiving DIL gave was in exchange for the value of free rent, plus the caregiving was not a full time gig so nothing more is owed.

Also, it's not OP's story, but The Haitian describes a situation where one sibling lives in the house, raises her children in the house and even does expensive repairs to the house.  Again, I think whether or not this sibling was paying rent or providing other services in exchange for staying there comes into play in the discussion of fairness.  If the sibling lived there but wasn't paying rent, then that could be viewed more of a mooching type situation; after all, having more people live there adds significantly not only to utility costs but wear and tear on the house.  So if the sibling wasn't paying rent then the repairs she did to the house might be viewed as more of her paying her way rather than her getting any more ownership in the house.

[milee]

OK, totally off topic now, but thinking more about Carl's MIL.  So she went from living with her mother - even having her kids grow up in her mother's house - to living with Carl and his wife? Why does she always live with other people? From other posts, it sounds like Carl's OK with the MIL living with them, but the things he describes she does - walk the dog, clean, do some of the cooking - are nice conveniences but not exactly the type thing that would generally be considered enough work to mean that Carl and his wife should give her their house should they die. If those are the types of things she did in her mother's house, it would seem more that she was a net "taker" of free rent and support, rather than a net "giver" even if she did end up paying for some repairs or remodeling.  If I were one of the sisters who were supposed to inherit a part of the MIL's mother's house, I would probably still want my portion since that sister (Carl's MIL) had enjoyed the benefits of free rent and support for all those years.  Unless there's more to the story and the grandma was an invalid that Carl's MIL nursed for years or something like that.  But just living in the house rent free, doing some of the household work and even paying for some repairs? Wouldn't indicate to me that she was owed the house.

Of course, that is just the financial perspective on things and it's only one part of how people evaluate the situation.  There are people parts, too and sometimes those play a bigger role than the money.  MIL may be a wonderful, kind, caring person that is a joy to be around so people think that's more important than the fact that she doesn't contribute on a net basis financially.  Like in Carl's house, it sounds like the arrangement makes them happy so is worth doing even though MIL uses more financial resources than she contributes money or services of similar monetary value.

BTW - I'm not opposed to exchanging a house for services or for devoting one's life to taking care of a loved one.  I was the one that convinced my dad to change his will to give his house to his longtime girlfriend. They never married - mostly for financial reasons - but they lived as a married couple.  At his request, she didn't work and not only took care of all the house stuff but was a wonderful influence on his life. Without her, he would have been a solitary, lonely, grumpy hermit. She got him out and active, kept him interacting with friends, made sure he took his meds and just generally made his life much better than it would have been otherwise. She also sold her house to move in with him, again at his request. IMHO it was only fair that he give her the house in exchange for those things plus to take care of her so that if she died she wouldn't also be suddenly homeless and having to find a new house in her 70s.

[saveinla]

I may be wrong, but I vaguely remember that Carl's MIL worked as a nurse for a number of years and was just burnt out working long hours to help family.
She did not move from living with her mother to living with Carl and his wife.  

[mollyanna58]

Apr 19, 2016 8:34:24 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Apr 16, 2016 8:13:43 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

Why is FIL greedy?   There could be a lot of reasons why they don't want the DIL to inherit the house that you have no knowledge of.   Maybe DIL isn't the saintly care taker that she is being made out to be in the thread.

Just b/c she was married to the son doesn't mean she is entitled to the AUNT'S house. 

OK, I yield.  As Milee pointed out, we don't know enough about the situation to judge if DIL deserves to inherit.  If her husband had not predeceased his mother, the husband would have inherited and his widow would then be his heir.

However, I was thinking about my mother's will, which leaves everything to her children; and if one predeceases her, their share goes to that person's children, not their spouse.  At this time, only one of us has a spouse and no children.  If that person dies before Mom, then the estate gets split 6 ways, not 7. The spouse would not inherit anything.

[973beachbum]

Apr 19, 2016 13:22:55 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

Apr 19, 2016 8:34:24 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Why is FIL greedy?   There could be a lot of reasons why they don't want the DIL to inherit the house that you have no knowledge of.   Maybe DIL isn't the saintly care taker that she is being made out to be in the thread.

Just b/c she was married to the son doesn't mean she is entitled to the AUNT'S house. 

OK, I yield.  As Milee pointed out, we don't know enough about the situation to judge if DIL deserves to inherit.  If her husband had not predeceased his mother, the husband would have inherited and his widow would then be his heir.

However, I was thinking about my mother's will, which leaves everything to her children; and if one predeceases her, their share goes to that person's children, not their spouse.  At this time, only one of us has a spouse and no children.  If that person dies before Mom, then the estate gets split 6 ways, not 7. The spouse would not inherit anything.

That is how it would work in my family, but none of us have had to take care of a sick elderly parent or grandparent either.

Having had a relative that was old and sick who I did partial duty for, I can say with total certainty that anyone who thinks doing it 24 hrs a day 7 days a week in exchange for a couple hundred a week in rent is a fair deal has never done it before.

Heck I didn't live with them and just went over every week and took them to Dr appointments and did their meds along with scheduling all the medical stuff.  That alone would have been worth more than $200 a week.  24/7 I am not sure anyone could actually pay me enough.

[Ombud]

Rough when it's written that way but it's her money. I'm sure DD's BF feels I unfairly favorite DIL. But IT'S MY MONEY and I can gift it however I want