bobosensei
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Post by bobosensei on Apr 14, 2016 6:11:10 GMT -5
DH just told me that his dad and uncle stand to inherit their aunt's house. Apparently they found out recently when someone sent them a quit claim or something to sign over ownership to their aunt's daughter in law. Here's what happened. Their cousin J died several months back, he was married and had no kids. The Aunt recently died, but FIL and his brother are her closest living blood relatives. The widow and aunt were grieving and I am sure no one even thought or had time to do anything to make sure the house went to the widow.
FIL and his brother were both supposedly close to cousin J even though FIL lives like 15 hours away and hardly saw them. But he wants the money. He "shamed" his brother into not signing his stuff over. It makes me pretty sick. If they were so close to J why would they do that to his cousin's relatively recent widow. I mean I know italian culture doesn't value women who don't have kids, so I guess they feel that even though she took care of their aunt for years that because she didn't create a blood relative that she is nothing to anyone, not even real family anymore since J died.
I hope she sues, but have no idea whether she could actually make a case...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 6:49:20 GMT -5
I'm not sure I completely understand the situation? But if she has no blood or relevant legal relationship (married to person who just died), and was not specifically left anything, I'm guessing she has no claim, sorry. Could she make a claim that she was owed caregiver compensation from the estate? I still don't have much confidence in that option. I am no lawyer though....
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Apr 14, 2016 7:14:02 GMT -5
Sometimes what is legal isn't what is fair. My ex's aunt and uncle lived on a farm for over 50 years, it had been his parents farm. They had one son and the grandfather left the farm to the grandson. The man had a life tenancy on the farm so when he died his widow had nothing. Her son owned the farm, the house had burned down and been replaced with a mobile home so she owned that. She needed to move off her son's farm, he wouldn't allow her to stay. She was elderly and alone on 200 acres, he forced her to move. He had two other farms one he owned with his wife and another he farmed for a corporation so was farming about 800 acres already. He put his mother's mobile home on the farm he and his wife and kids lived on next to his house. Her late father in law had every right not to leave her a farm even if she had worked it over 50 years, her son had every right to kick her off, she was just lucky he wanted her next to his house.
My dad's mother was an evil old woman, dad didn't like her at all, nobody liked her. She had 5 kids and the youngest daughter had to move in with her with her daughter and spent years taking care of the old woman. Dad went to the funeral to see if he would care but he didn't care. The other kids talked it over and decided the daughter who took care of her should get the entire house. The kids were all over 50 and none but her needed a house, they thought she earned it. They had a right to kick her out and sell the house splitting the money, but didn't make it fair.
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Apr 14, 2016 7:18:04 GMT -5
I think you are saying that cousin J is the son of the Aunt that died. And if Aunt had died first, the house would have been his and then he would have left it to his widow. And I am guessing that widow actually lives in the house. Is that all correct?
(I don't know anything about the legalities - I'm just trying to get the situation clarified).
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Apr 14, 2016 7:39:04 GMT -5
Sorry but I don't think DIL can do anything, her husband died before his mother and mother probably did not update her will.
If she had died before him the house would have gone to him but since he was already dead, the house is going to her remaining 2 living relatives (or so I am assuming).
Not sure how the DIL can put any claim on the house or inheritance. But she can always consult a lawyer to make sure.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Apr 14, 2016 9:21:41 GMT -5
Why does DIL deserve the house more than the direct relatives? Wouldn't the aunt would have addressed this if she wanted to? If I am reading the OP correctly the DIL's husband predeceased his mother. That mother is the one who is the OP's aunt. Somehow the home that the DIL and her husband, the OP's cousin, didn't go to her when he died, it went to his mother , who is the OP's husband's aunt. As the aunt's closest living relative it seems the home, that the DIL lived in with her husband, ended up going to the aunt's nephews. My question is how did someone lawfully married not inherit their spouse's home especially since she lived in it with him while they were married? My understanding is you can't just cut your spouse out of your estate unless they formally agree to it in writing. I don't remember what it is called. If this is an oversight and he just didn't change his will type of thing after he got married it might be able to be fixed. She would need to see a lawyer and figure out what happened. It might be fixable but I doubt it will be easy.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 14, 2016 9:45:33 GMT -5
Why does DIL deserve the house more than the direct relatives? Wouldn't the aunt would have addressed this if she wanted to? If I am reading the OP correctly the DIL's husband predeceased his mother. That mother is the one who is the OP's aunt. Somehow the home that the DIL and her husband, the OP's cousin, didn't go to her when he died, it went to his mother , who is the OP's husband's aunt. As the aunt's closest living relative it seems the home, that the DIL lived in with her husband, ended up going to the aunt's nephews. My question is how did someone lawfully married not inherit their spouse's home especially since she lived in it with him while they were married? My understanding is you can't just cut your spouse out of your estate unless they formally agree to it in writing. I don't remember what it is called. If this is an oversight and he just didn't change his will type of thing after he got married it might be able to be fixed. She would need to see a lawyer and figure out what happened. It might be fixable but I doubt it will be easy. It wasn't the spouse's home...it's the Aunt's home. The spouse wasn't excluded from her husband's estate, at the time he died the home was owned by the Aunt. It doesn't sound like the deceased husband owned the home at all...ever.
Essentially...My mom owns a home. I am married with no kids. I die. Later on, my mom dies. The house goes to her closest blood relative who are her nephews rather than my wife because she's not a blood relative and there is no will saying she gets it.
If my mom had died first, the house would have gone to me. If I'd then died, the house would go to my wife.
I'm not really sure what people are talking about lawsuits for. Who are you suing? The state's laws are what is giving the house to her nephews in the first place. I'm not sure there's a legal argument of "if some people's deaths had happened in a different order then I might have been given this thing". That's true in nearly all deaths.
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Apr 14, 2016 10:01:37 GMT -5
I wanted to change my post when I reread the OP. sorry for quotes that followed. It is unfortunate that while grieving aunt did not update will. Excellent example as to why all of this needs to be addressed in the initial document. Mine states that DIL inherits DS portion if he dies b4 me, was married to him at the time, & hasn't remarried .... hope that's legal. However DD's BF gets $0 in similar scenario. And they've lived together 6 yrs going on 7. It's notarized and witnessed by all 5 of my siblings but kids haven't seen it
I can change it once I recover from grieving but wouldn't b4
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Apr 14, 2016 10:08:57 GMT -5
So a woman owns a home that her son and daughter in law live in (and maybe she does, too- that's not clear). Her son dies. His mom and DIL grieve his loss. Then mom dies and the house goes to her brothers because they are the closest living relatives. DIL has no stake in the home. It does not sound like there is a case here. DIL was not a homeowner or on the deed and not a blood relative.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Apr 14, 2016 10:17:02 GMT -5
I think cronewitch has it right: it is legal but not fair. What does FIL's brother want to do?
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Apr 14, 2016 10:24:26 GMT -5
I think cronewitch has it right: it is legal but not fair. What does FIL's brother want to do? How is it unfair?
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Apr 14, 2016 11:23:18 GMT -5
I think cronewitch has it right: it is legal but not fair. What does FIL's brother want to do? How is it unfair? I was thinking that too. Why should the DIL inherit the house? Of course we don't know, but it sounds like the couple lived there free for years anyway. If MIL wanted DIL to have her house she could have just given it to her while she was still alive.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Apr 14, 2016 11:28:01 GMT -5
Because it was DIL's home too and she took care of her dying MIL for years. Perhaps she believed her MIL wanted her to have the house. But, now greedy blood relatives need her to move out of her home so they can sell the house and keep the money for themselves. Because...the law.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Apr 14, 2016 11:35:54 GMT -5
Also, I'm sure everyone in the family recognizes that if the mom had died before her son, the house would have automatically gone to her son since there is no will. Then, when son died, his wife would have automatically gotten the house. This is what is unfair. It should have, would have and could have been the DIL's house (or the widow of the cousin) if a proper will had been written or if her MIL had died before her husband.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Apr 14, 2016 11:51:26 GMT -5
I didn't see anywhere that it said DIL took care of MIL. Maybe I missed that?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 14, 2016 11:51:32 GMT -5
Also, I'm sure everyone in the family recognizes that if the mom had died before her son, the house would have automatically gone to her son since there is no will. Then, when son died, his wife would have automatically gotten the house. This is what is unfair. It should have, would have and could have been the DIL's house (or the widow of the cousin) if a proper will had been written or if her MIL had died before her husband. There's a big assumption here that aunt would have given DIL the house if she had written a will. Maybe that's a reasonable assumption for those who know the family (I don't, so I won't judge whether it is or not).
I can tell you in plenty of families though (including mine), that the parent(s) would be fine with the house going to their child, and then at that point if it goes to the spouse after then whatever. They would NOT leave it directly to the spouse though if the child dies first. So I don't think we can just make the blanket assumption that because they lived together that the aunt would have intended to leave the home to DIL, and only didn't do it because there was no will.
Also, there's nothing in the OP that actually says this was DIL's home, it says they were taking care of her, but lots of people take care of an elderly relative without living with them. I think "fair" is a hard judgment to make given the details we have.
The fact that you didn't get something you never actually earned or deserved doesn't mean something is "unfair" just because if some hypotheticals happened you could have gotten it.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 14, 2016 11:52:50 GMT -5
I didn't see anywhere that it said DIL took care of MIL. Maybe I missed that? You just missed it. Though it doesn't say if there was any kind of compensation (like whether they lived with her, if so how much they contributed, etc).
Excerpt:
I mean I know italian culture doesn't value women who don't have kids, so I guess they feel that even though she took care of their aunt for years that because she didn't create a blood relative that she is nothing to anyone, not even real family anymore since J died.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Apr 14, 2016 12:18:09 GMT -5
I think cronewitch has it right: it is legal but not fair. What does FIL's brother want to do? How is it unfair? If the aunt had died before her son, her son normally would've inherited even if the aunt didn't leave a will. If the son then died, it would have gone to his wife.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Apr 14, 2016 12:30:41 GMT -5
If the aunt had died before her son, her son normally would've inherited even if the aunt didn't leave a will. If the son then died, it would have gone to his wife. And how is it "unfair"? I get the timeline and how it would have been different if aunt died before son... But how is it "unfair"? She did not buy the house, she did not own it, as far as we know was not promised it. So how is it unfair that she did not get it?
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Apr 14, 2016 12:31:17 GMT -5
I still don't see how that makes it unfair as it's just following the line I'd imagine most states follow. There have been more stories where an elderly relative dies, a blood family member inherits something that's family property, they pass and it goes to their spouse who the family and the elderly relative who passed didn't care for or want them to end up with. Moral of the story is if you want things handled a certain way after you pass have a trust or will set up. You should have one set up anyways if you have kids and/or assets to ensure it goes as smoothly as possible and hopefully isn't held up in court.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 14, 2016 13:14:07 GMT -5
Anything can be fought. The question is are you going to win?
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Apr 14, 2016 13:33:40 GMT -5
Anything can be fought. The question is are you going to win? Very true. I'd also think you'd have to consider "is it worth it" because if you expect someone else to fight back you have to decide if it's worth the time, money, stress and fall out.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Apr 14, 2016 14:09:04 GMT -5
Is there any possibility that a will leaving the house to her son and daughter-in-law exists and neither your FIL or his brother are aware of it? In that case, the DIL would inherit the house.
It's pretty ballsy to send out quitclaims otherwise.
ETA: I'm assuming that this property is in the US. Other countries have some pretty strict rules regarding who can inherit and can't always write a will that deviates from what the law says.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 14, 2016 14:13:38 GMT -5
But if Aunt did have a will leaving house to son, wouldn't dil inherit his portion?
I'd swear my dad inherited a couple hundred that way. Gramma died. A few years later someone else died and named Grammy in their will so it was paid out to Gramma's descendants.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 14, 2016 14:18:17 GMT -5
But if Aunt did have a will leaving house to son, wouldn't dil inherit his portion
Son died before he could inherit. So it skips over him and goes to the next blood relative if there isn't anything in the will stating otherwise.
If the AUNT went first then the son would have inherited the house. If the son passed away AFTER he inherited yes she'd be entitled to the house as his spouse.
But that's not how it went. The widow is not entitled to the AUNT'S estate unless the aunt addressed it in her will. The next living blood relative is entitled to the estate if the original person listed is deceased.
If DH's parents die first then he gets a share of the estate. If DH dies first I am not entitled to anything b/c I am not listed in the will. My kids would inherit since they are next in line.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Apr 14, 2016 14:20:46 GMT -5
Is there any possibility that a will leaving the house to her son and daughter-in-law exists and neither your husband or his brother are aware of it? In that case, the DIL would inherit the house. It's pretty ballsy to send out quitclaims otherwise. ETA: I'm assuming that this property is in the US. Other countries have some pretty strict rules regarding who can inherit and can't always write a will that deviates from what the law says. Re-read the OP. Uncles are not the ones that sent out the quick claim. They find out they might inherit the house because someone else (assuming someone on DIL side) sent them a quick claim to transfer ownership to DIL. So basically DIL knew the house was not hers legally but was hoping following the same logic as OP that they would out of he goodness of their hearts quit claim it to her. She was wrong!
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Apr 14, 2016 14:23:43 GMT -5
But if Aunt did have a will leaving house to son, wouldn't dil inherit his portion
Son died before he could inherit. So it skips over him and goes to the next blood relative if there isn't anything in the will stating otherwise. DIL is not a blood relative. She was a relative by marriage. She isn't entitled to anything unless the Aunt put it down in writing that she'd inherit it. If the AUNT went first then the son would have inherited the house. If the son then passed yes she'd be entitled to the house as his spouse. Son did not inherit anything b/c he is dead. So the Aunt's estate goes to whatever blood kin are next in line. And #yeahthat over and over again! Legally in the absence of a will stating otherwise she is not entitled to anything.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Apr 14, 2016 14:32:35 GMT -5
I didn't read it as the nephews sending out the quitclaims.
Yup, it's entirely possible that the DIL was doing exactly what you mentioned, i.e. sending out quitclaims in the hopes that the heirs would through a combination of mercy, goodness of heart, guilt, or ignorance, sign them. That's a pretty long-shot move, and kinda sneaky too, but it might be the best play she has.
But it's also possible that a will leaving the house to the son and DIL exists and neither of the nephews either knows about it or is mentioning it.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Apr 14, 2016 14:39:55 GMT -5
I didn't read it as the nephews sending out the quitclaims. Yup, it's entirely possible that the DIL was doing exactly what you mentioned, i.e. sending out quitclaims in the hopes that the heirs would through a combination of mercy, goodness of heart, guilt, or ignorance, sign them. That's a pretty long-shot move, and kinda sneaky too, but it might be the best play she has. But it's also possible that a will leaving the house to the son and DIL exists and neither of the nephews either knows about it or is mentioning it. If there is a will why would she need them to quit claim the house to her? And would a copy of said will be attached with the quit claim to make fasten the process?
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Apr 14, 2016 14:55:18 GMT -5
If there is a will why would she need them to quit claim the house to her? And would a copy of said will be attached with the quit claim to make fasten the process? I can't answer those questions very well. I do know that it's pretty common to be sent a quitclaim and a request to sign it even when the person being asked to sign doesn't have any interest in the property in question. I've definitely gotten one of those. It would be pretty common to attach a copy of the will to such a request, so I can't explain it's absence except to note that there's a bit of a telephone chain here and the OP's FIL (not husband as I originally wrote) wants the money. I'd also note that he's Italian and Italian inheritance law is pretty different from English and US law. Italians have pretty limited ability to direct an inheritance.
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