milee
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Post by milee on Mar 23, 2016 20:18:33 GMT -5
You want to know what would really poke the beehive? Setting up blanket institutional discrimination against all Muslims. THAT would poke the beehive. What if we fumigate the beehive? If you think that is possible you are even more ignorant than I previously suspected.
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Mar 23, 2016 20:19:05 GMT -5
You know where the radical muslims are located? Hiding among the moderate muslims. Since we can't tell them apart, what are we going to do? What's the third choice? The same thing we do when one man commits a crime - we find that guy. Even if he's hiding among all the other guys. That would work if "that guy" didn't usually blow himself up while perpetrating the crime.
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Mar 23, 2016 20:22:01 GMT -5
What if we fumigate the beehive? If you think that is possible you are even more ignorant than I previously suspected. Coming from you, I'll wear that as a badge of honor.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 23, 2016 21:52:29 GMT -5
Again, nobody's suggesting we not fight terrorism and terrorists. We're just disagreeing that 1) all Muslims are terrorists and 2) some of the things you've suggested (like blanket discrimination against all Muslims) is an effective tactic to fight terrorism.
You seem like a ready, fire, aim kind of guy. I'm suggesting that we ready, aim, fire. Who would better be able to discern a radical jihadist from a run if the mill peace loving muslim? Me, you, some asshole in D.C., or the muslim community? I can tell you I have no idea how to pick them out. What if we give the "nation of islam" a finite amount of time to purge these from their ranks? If this doesn't happen, then they will NOT like the aftermath. I don't know of an easy solution to this problem, but sitting around pretending it isn't a problem only allows them to get larger and stronger. The longer we wait to rectify the situation, the tougher a job it's going to be. Right now, all we are doing is poking the beehive with a stick. NOI is tracked as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.[8 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam
If you mean Muslim countries, its still a silly idea.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Mar 24, 2016 1:26:40 GMT -5
It's not radical...it's Islam
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 7:54:57 GMT -5
More Americans were killed by toddlers than terrorists last year. And I don't know about you, but I can never predict exactly what those little tyrants will do... Maybe we should take care of that lot too?
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Mar 24, 2016 7:59:45 GMT -5
More Americans were killed by toddlers than terrorists last year. And I don't know about you, but I can never predict exactly what those little tyrants will do... Maybe we should take care of that lot too? If toddlers unite and declare jihad against us, then yes; it should be dealt with. Enjoy the view with your head buried in the sand.
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Mar 24, 2016 8:22:39 GMT -5
I read his response. I was not favorably impressed. I don't think it addressed the question, at all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 8:23:57 GMT -5
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Mar 24, 2016 8:25:12 GMT -5
Aaaaaaaaaand the fear mongers show up . . . . . kittensaver is probably picked up in the first round up of infidels by ISIS
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 24, 2016 10:13:10 GMT -5
Aaaaaaaaaand the fear mongers show up . . . . . Perhaps you aren't old enough to remember what happened on 9/11/01. I'll never forget it. Well if it makes any difference to you . . . I remember it all too painfully well. I lost two extended family members that day - one in the horrors of the north tower and the second one three years later when a suicide relieved him of the crippling depression and misery he could never get over from losing his son. But that's okay - - go right ahead and imply that somehow I'm unAmerican or unpatriotic because while I'm more than willing to hunt down and punish those who are responsible for heinous crimes against humanity, I'm also unwilling to lay hate and blame and anger on an entire nationality and religion of perfectly innocent people who are just like me on the inside and only want to go about living their lives just like every other human being wants. And frankly I don't give a rats a$$ if you don't like me for it - - I can stand up for myself and take care of myself. But I've seen a LOT of injustice in my years on this planet, and I will never sit by quietly when injustices are being proposed or perpetrated on those who don't have a voice or can't stand up for themselves.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 24, 2016 10:13:46 GMT -5
Aaaaaaaaaand the fear mongers show up . . . . . kittensaver is probably picked up in the first round up of infidels by ISIS See post #160
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 24, 2016 10:25:54 GMT -5
Looks like Europe is in for a bit of a rough time. From the Associated Press: Security officials have told The Associated Press that the Islamic State group has trained at least 400 attackers and sent them into Europe for terror attacks.
The network of interlocking, agile and semiautonomous cells shows the reach of the extremist group in Europe even as it loses ground in Syria. The officials, including European and Iraqi intelligence officials and a French lawmaker who follows the jihadi networks, describe camps designed specifically to train for attacks against the West.
The officials say the fighters have been given orders to find the right time, place and method to carry out their mission. The truly ironic thing is that the only reason ISIS has lost ground in Syria because Pres. Putin, also supposedly an enemy of the US, has been bolstering Pres. Assad's regime in combating them, and the US has been confounding those efforts. I don't think most Americans realize the extent to which Europe is blaming America for what's going on over there.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 24, 2016 10:34:43 GMT -5
From what I've read, some of the problems have to do with borders and lack of checking passports.
How is that so, when at least three of the attackers were known radicals?
It appears that the plot didn't trigger an alert because the French authorities didn't know some of them were in the country.
Part of it does seem to be that there is free and easy travel across the border. (France and 25 other European countries are party to the Schengen Agreement, which allows for passport-free travel across much of the continent.)
That seems to be, unfortunately for Schengen Europe, one of the issues that's highlighted -- you just don't know when these people are traveling across the border. www.cnn.com/2015/11/18/europe/paris-terror-attacks-intelligence-failures-robertson/
Two days after the worst terror attack on Belgian soil, signs are growing that the Belgium government failed to address security lapses that might have contributed to Tuesday's bombings.
The European Union told Belgian authorities to remedy gaps in their border security just weeks before suicide bombers attacked Brussels Airport and a metro station, killing 31 people and wounding 270, according to a report published Thursday.
The revelation that a list of recommendations was sent to Brussels in February urging it to repair its "deficient" security checks came after Belgium apparently failed to monitor one of the suicide bombers despite warnings from Turkey.
www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/03/24/brussels-attacks/82198206/
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 24, 2016 10:52:57 GMT -5
Perhaps you aren't old enough to remember what happened on 9/11/01. I'll never forget it. But that's okay - - go right ahead and imply that somehow I'm unAmerican or unpatriotic because while I'm more than willing to hunt down and punish those who are responsible for heinous crimes against humanity, I'm also unwilling to lay hate and blame and anger on an entire nationality and religion of perfectly innocent people who are just like me on the inside and only want to go about living their lives just like every other human being wants. I bet you eat French fries too instead of Freedom Fries. So let's go along with this plan to ban people from the middle east from coming here. Let's round up everyone here of middle eastern descent. What's to stop ISIS from recruiting members from the large parts of Africa and Southeast Asia that are also Muslim? The news and politicians seem to have done a very good job of convincing people that Islam is only practiced in the middle east which is far from the truth. Islam is the second largest religion in the world, the only religion that outranks it is Christianity. So are we going to ban people from those countries too? What about if they claim they are Christian/Jewish/Hindu/whatever can they be let in? It's pretty easy to lie about your religion. What about people who convert? Mexico and South American are largely Catholic yet that didn't stop the California neighbor from watching ISIS videos on the internet, converting and deciding to provide the couple with the guns. Do we go into people's homes and make sure they don't have a copy of the Koran anywhere and if they do put them in internment camps/jail? Do we force people to go to church/temple to make sure nobody is practicing Islam? How far are we willing to go to "protect" ourselves? How many rights are we going to give up? How okay are we with a large swarth of the world hating our guts? It's just going to create more terrorists because we are proving the point ISIS wants to make. We're a bunch of arrogant xenophobes that want to bomb them out of existence. The only way to protect yourself is join their cause.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 24, 2016 10:55:18 GMT -5
I also find it interesting that people are willing to do "whatever it takes" to protect ourselves from ISIS
But suggest they have to go thru a background check to get their guns and everybody loses their minds!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 12:04:53 GMT -5
I also find it interesting that people are willing to do "whatever it takes" to protect ourselves from ISIS But suggest they have to go thru a background check to get their guns and everybody loses their minds! Too many are the opposite also. They want to limit guns but have no problem with Muslims. For the record I am for leaving gun owners and Muslims alone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 12:11:50 GMT -5
I want some limitations on guns and a stricter application process and review. I also have no problem with Muslims.
Oh wait... did you mean has no problem with ISIS? That's a different question.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 12:17:44 GMT -5
I want some limitations on guns and a stricter application process and review. I also have no problem with Muslims.
Oh wait... did you mean has no problem with ISIS? That's a different question. I am against targeting muslims. I am against labeling people terrorists. Just treat people for the crime if they committed one. I don't think labels help.calling someone a terrorist is political and it doesn't help to politicize.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 12:34:48 GMT -5
Just b/c ISIS says they are Muslim doesn't mean they are true Muslims. True Muslims don't go around bombing Paris and Brussels. See the point people are trying to make? No. I don't. I don't see the point in pointing fingers at religion....period. It doesn't matter that you don't see the point if the radicals believe it is about religion. They do. Some people are just evil and there is no point in trying our very best to attribute that to ANY religion - Islam, Christian...any religion. There is no point. The point is they are using the text from their holy book to justify, inspire and motivate evil. It's dumb and it's not admitting the real problem - which is simple and unadulterated evil. I know next to nothing about Islam so I won't talk about it (which I wish people who knew nothing about Christianity would refrain from doing also), but from the little bit I do know, committing atrocious acts of pure evil isn't what they believe either. For most this is true Until people stop this dumb crap, nothing is going to change. Sadly, I think it's too late anyway.
I'm with Ken. This is all too sad. All people want to do about it is spout stupid crap about religion when the opposite is the cause of all of it. If we are to accept there is "good" in this world, we must accept there is also "evil". Only good will defeat evil. "Good" isn't comprised of blaming religion - anybody's religion. But I suppose we'll go ahead and do it....cause it's working out so well for all of us.
www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/03/22/radicalization-isil-islam-sacred-texts-literal-interpretation-column/81808560/ My reason for linking this is not because this guy seems to have converted to Christianity. It does though help explain how the religious texts play a role in Islamic extremism. I really don't give care what ism if any a radical Islamic would decide to convert to just that they cease the particular brand they now practice.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 24, 2016 12:37:04 GMT -5
Looks like Europe is in for a bit of a rough time. From the Associated Press: Security officials have told The Associated Press that the Islamic State group has trained at least 400 attackers and sent them into Europe for terror attacks.
The network of interlocking, agile and semiautonomous cells shows the reach of the extremist group in Europe even as it loses ground in Syria. The officials, including European and Iraqi intelligence officials and a French lawmaker who follows the jihadi networks, describe camps designed specifically to train for attacks against the West.
The officials say the fighters have been given orders to find the right time, place and method to carry out their mission. The truly ironic thing is that the only reason ISIS has lost ground in Syria because Pres. Putin, also supposedly an enemy of the US, has been bolstering Pres. Assad's regime in combating them, and the US has been confounding those efforts. I don't think most Americans realize the extent to which Europe is blaming America for what's going on over there. How are we confounding the efforts?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 24, 2016 12:39:38 GMT -5
I also find it interesting that people are willing to do "whatever it takes" to protect ourselves from ISIS But suggest they have to go thru a background check to get their guns and everybody loses their minds! But suggesting that taking in Syrian refugees might put America at greater risk and the liberals lose their minds!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 24, 2016 12:44:42 GMT -5
Taking in refugees from anywhere could put us at risk. Again Islam is the second largest religion in the world. We stop Syrian refugees and they send in people another way.
It'd just be more security theater to ban Syrian refugees. The terrorists that flew the planes in the Twin Towers were here on student visas. Which from what I understand it's a lot easier to get a student visa (and then never leave) than it is to get approved for refugee status in the United States.
I understand Europe's problem with their interconnected boarders and lack of security in some areas. If you're coming HERE legally it's a lot harder to get in since we are pretty isolated.
Course they could cross Mexican boarder illegally. That would be a way to get around banning refugees from entering the country.
We'd have to build Trump's wall around the entire United States and ban any kind of international travel if we want to prevent terrorists from coming over.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 12:45:48 GMT -5
I must have missed where the bombers were Syrian refugees?
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 24, 2016 12:48:01 GMT -5
I must have missed where the bombers were Syrian refugees? Oh, you didn't miss it, oped. What you are being confronted with is massive, fear-based stereotyping
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 24, 2016 12:51:33 GMT -5
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 24, 2016 12:52:54 GMT -5
Taking in refugees from anywhere could put us at risk. Again Islam is the second largest religion in the world. We stop Syrian refugees and they send in people another way. It'd just be more security theater to ban Syrian refugees. The terrorists that flew the planes in the Twin Towers were here on student visas. Which from what I understand it's a lot easier to get a student visa (and then never leave) than it is to get approved for refugee status in the United States. Unless they send them up thru Mexico illegally I suppose. That would be another way to get around banning refugees from entering the country. Which is another reason for us to strengthen our borders...and I'm fine with dialing back our student visas until we get this straightened out.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 24, 2016 12:54:01 GMT -5
I must have missed where the bombers were Syrian refugees? Oh, you didn't miss it, oped . What you are being confronted with is massive, fear-based stereotyping Even liberal press admits a certain % of Syrian refugees view ISIS as positively...but I'm stereotyping?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 24, 2016 12:54:46 GMT -5
So we ban Syrian refugees to stop that 10-13% who have a positive opinion.
What about those already here that have a positive opinion? What about people from places other than Syria or other middle eastern countries that may have a positive opinion of ISIS?
Again the neighbor in California who supplied the guns was from MEXICO. The male half the couple was born in Chicago.
How do we stop people like him from aiding/becoming terrorists?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 24, 2016 12:58:21 GMT -5
So we ban Syrian refugees to stop that 10-13% who have a positive opinion.What about those already here that have a positive opinion? What about people from places other than Syria or other middle eastern countries that may have a positive opinion of ISIS? Again the neighbor in California who supplied the guns was from MEXICO. How do we stop people like him from aiding/becoming terrorists? Yes...because the Syrian refugees are going to admit that they are ISIS supporters when they get here
I don't have an answer to how to keep us safe...but I do know what we are doing isn't working. I think strengthening the borders (stopping illegals from everywhere, including the liberals believed mexico) is a start. Stop the hippy dippy "well our ancestors came through Elllis Island therefore we must let every whackjob in" is another start.
It kills me because we focus on shit that isn't a threat to national security but real threats we are told we should ignore so as not to offend anyone...I will never understand that logic.
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