Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Feb 13, 2016 15:29:29 GMT -5
I think this is somewhere between sad and disgusting. People should be interviewed if their experience matches requirements, full stop. They should be hired if they interview well and seem a Good fit, or best fit. Why the hell shouldn't parents name their kids names that are congruent with their cultural identities? If it does handicap them later in life, shame on the employers, not the parent! And how very sad to suggedt that those parent can't name their tiny infant something they find lovely and culturally congruent, without a shred of hope that the world would be a more tolerant place 30-25 years later. Well, yes. But unfortunately we've all been saddled with "human nature" and we are all victims of our upbringing.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Feb 13, 2016 15:31:56 GMT -5
And some names don't age well. Remember the joke in Friends about the name "Ruth" ("ok... are we having an 80 year old?"). What about Edsel. Goodie? Silas, Phinneas?
Then there are names that were hot for a while and kind of "date" a person. There were lots of Zacharys out there back in the mid 90s. There are loads of Aidens (and all the off-shots of that) today.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 15:34:01 GMT -5
It wouldn't matter to us. But we are small and do all the hiring ourselves, no HR department or personal bias. And I'm a guilt ridden liberal I'd overcompensate if anything. The thing is, it's not even always a conscious decision. People can be as outrage as they want, it's not going to make an immediate difference. I don't think acknowledging it and making adjustments for it is this horrible thing. Any more than not getting face tattoos or wearing a see through blouse to an interview etc are 'Bowing to the man'... If you don't want to put up with that kind of thing, find $ warning opportunities elsewhere...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 15:35:05 GMT -5
Silas and Fin are coming back. Goodie was an address, not a name. Edsel... Wasn't that a car?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 13, 2016 15:37:56 GMT -5
Silas and Fin are coming back. Goodie was an address, not a name. Edsel... Wasn't that a car? It was also the name of Henry Ford's son.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 13, 2016 15:38:22 GMT -5
Henry had an Edsel who had a Henry.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Feb 13, 2016 15:41:32 GMT -5
...:::"It's going to depend on the circumstances. The employer as well.":::...
Do you want to elaborate, or do we just leave it there? What happens if "Dahomey's" resume sports slightly better experience/skills than "Tom's"?
I think that if I was in this position, I would want to evaluate based on merit, but I would also want a chance for the candidate to meet the team. Given how much time we spend at work, things go much nicer when people fit well. The team who is going to be working with Tom or Dahomey should have some input.
On that note, I always found it amusing that some of the most famous rappers actually have pretty elegant given names.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 13, 2016 15:52:50 GMT -5
Another point - when you have that little newborn infant - are you really planning at that point on them growing up to be a corporate stooge? is that how you all chose your kids names - on their corporate value? When they may just as well grow up to be an artist, a musician, dancer, athlete, etc. lol - oh wait! YM doesn't allow that. I don't think corporate stooge is a nice thing to say about people who actually work for a living. What a nice parent does is think about their child's future. I'm not sure my son is thrilled with his name. He was named after the two people I loved the most in this whole world. My grandma and my dad. Now his name isn't Josephine of course and his middle name is an old man's name but it IS his middle name not his first name. As an adult he could change it. Would I like it? No but he has the right to. I'd still love him.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 16:03:28 GMT -5
I do think that this is more an issue with early jobs, as someone said, after you have experience which is quantifiable. To get that experience though... I have a friend who named her kids Tripp and Storm. She gave them 'normal' middle names, saying, in case they ever want something different. I don't think it's too much to consider possible future impact when naming a child...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 13, 2016 16:05:59 GMT -5
I don't think corporate stooge is a nice thing to say about people who actually work for a living. What a nice parent does is think about their child's future. I'm not sure my son is thrilled with his name. He was named after the two people I loved the most in this whole world. My grandma and my dad. Now his name isn't Josephine of course and his middle name is an old man's name but it IS his middle name not his first name. As an adult he could change it. Would I like it? No but he has the right to. I'd still love him. Perhaps. If he came to me and told me giving him two old people names were ruining his future, yes, I would agree. So would my grandma and dad. Because my son is our future. We go on because of him. He may be the end of our line but there's enough of the family to continue.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 13, 2016 16:13:42 GMT -5
We had this debate on the old boards about whether "ethnic" named folks have trouble getting hired. His wife's given name was "Shaniqua". It was pretty quickly pointed out that most people consider that name "ghetto", not "ethnic". She had lovely qualities and a fine resume, but there are going to be some folks out there who will have already drawn their own conclusion. So to the business owners participating in this thread, how would you handle this situation? Would you toss the resume after seeing the name? Is it a non-issue for you? Does it all come down to the skills? Or is it "my company, my rules"? My current business doesn't need many people at the professional level. Other than the outside sales manager and receptionist, the remaining employees have very little customer contact so the primary criteria for hiring them is are they qualified, hard working and get along with others. I wouldn't necessarily consider Shaniqua to be a ghetto name - it's pretty common. So I wouldn't toss that resume. And I can't immediately think a name that would make me toss a resume immediately. But that doesn't mean the name would have no impact. Examples:
Resume is from Shaniqua. She is the most qualified... I schedule an interview with her. Resumes received from Shaniqua and Tom. Both are equally qualified... I schedule interviews with both of them. Resumes received from S'hanikwah Y'Alljealous and Susan. Both are equally qualified... I schedule an interview with Susan first. If Susan isn't a fit, I schedule an interview with S.Y. Resumes received from Yo Xing Heyno Augustus Eisner Alexander Weiser Knuckles (kid profiled in the article oped linked) and S'hanikwah Y'Alljealous. I schedule an interview with S.Y. first. If S.Y. doesn't fit, then schedule an interview with Y.K.
Skills always trump name. Getting along at the company and being a hard worker trump existing skills (I am happy to train the right person since I think it's easier to train for skills than attitude) and name. All that being said, the last few times we've advertised an open position, I received a stack of resumes almost a foot tall. I get enough applicants that I have plenty of choice. If there's anything about a resume that suggests that this employee is likely to add unneeded drama to my business, it's easy enough to avoid it.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 13, 2016 16:15:31 GMT -5
If he came to me and told me giving him two old people names were ruining his future, yes, I would agree. So would my grandma and dad. Because my son is our future. We go on because of him. He may be the end of our line but there's enough of the family to continue. Did something happen to your daughter?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 13, 2016 16:17:31 GMT -5
No but I doubt either will have children. Or get married. I could be wrong but both have assured me no marriage and no kids. I'm a bit disappointed but not all investments pay dividends.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 13, 2016 16:24:50 GMT -5
I think this is somewhere between sad and disgusting. People should be interviewed if their experience matches requirements, full stop. They should be hired if they interview well and seem a Good fit, or best fit. Why the hell shouldn't parents name their kids names that are congruent with their cultural identities? If it does handicap them later in life, shame on the employers, not the parent! And how very sad to suggedt that those parent can't name their tiny infant something they find lovely and culturally congruent, without a shred of hope that the world would be a more tolerant place 30-25 years later. Our area has a long history of being the winter home to a famous circus. Many things around here are named for the circus and it's only been recently that the circus hasn't wintered here, so it's part of the area's cultural identity. So it would be culturally congruent and, to some, considered lovely if a person from this area showed up a job interview named Bozo and dressed as a clown. It's not sad or disgusting that a corporate employer wouldn't hire a literal clown named Bozo to be their CFO.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Feb 13, 2016 16:58:38 GMT -5
Let's not forget this scene from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade:
Sallah: Please, what does it always mean, this... this "Junior"?
Professor Henry Jones: That's his name. [points to himself] Professor Henry Jones: Henry Jones... [points to Indy]
Professor Henry Jones: ...Junior.
Indiana Jones: I like "Indiana."
Professor Henry Jones: We named the *dog* Indiana.
Marcus Brody: May we go home now, please?
Sallah: The dog? [starts laughing]
Sallah: You are named after the dog? HA HA HA...!
Indiana Jones: I've got a lot of fond memories of that dog.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 17:02:23 GMT -5
I think this is somewhere between sad and disgusting. People should be interviewed if their experience matches requirements, full stop. They should be hired if they interview well and seem a Good fit, or best fit. Why the hell shouldn't parents name their kids names that are congruent with their cultural identities? If it does handicap them later in life, shame on the employers, not the parent! And how very sad to suggedt that those parent can't name their tiny infant something they find lovely and culturally congruent, without a shred of hope that the world would be a more tolerant place 30-25 years later. Our area has a long history of being the winter home to a famous circus. Many things around here are named for the circus and it's only been recently that the circus hasn't wintered here, so it's part of the area's cultural identity. So it would be culturally congruent and, to some, considered lovely if a person from this area showed up a job interview named Bozo and dressed as a clown. It's not sad or disgusting that a corporate employer wouldn't hire a literal clown named Bozo to be their CFO.
What we are talking about is not the equivalent of showing up to a job interview in a clown suit and that comparison is a red herring. We are talking about throwing out a resume based on the name. And the reason that resume gets thrown out is because the name does not conform to what the rule maker thinks it should be. ETA (it posted early) This kind of name discrimination is another tool to discourage diversity. I know a lot of people are comfortable with that. I'm not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 17:33:21 GMT -5
What we are talking about is not the equivalent of showing up to a job interview in a clown suit and that comparison is a red herring. We are talking about throwing out a resume based on the name. And the reason that resume gets thrown out is because the name does not conform to what the rule maker thinks it should be. ETA (it posted early) This kind of name discrimination is another tool to discourage diversity. I know a lot of people are comfortable with that. I'm not. Nonsense, Later. We all know that when Reginald P. Vanderbilt shows up to a job interview for CFO in a clown suit, he gets hired. Wait a minute - that actually wasn't as funny as it was suppose to be. He probably would be hired. oh wait - does that make less funny, or more funny? Less...I hope.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Feb 13, 2016 17:34:27 GMT -5
...:::"Y'Alljealous":::...
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
I've had an awful day, and I needed this!
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 13, 2016 18:25:01 GMT -5
Bozo is as lovely and culturally correct as Y'Alljealous. You're falling into the trap of automatically romanticizing ghetto, poor, etc while reflexively vilifying employers.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Feb 13, 2016 18:28:58 GMT -5
What we are talking about is not the equivalent of showing up to a job interview in a clown suit and that comparison is a red herring. We are talking about throwing out a resume based on the name. And the reason that resume gets thrown out is because the name does not conform to what the rule maker thinks it should be. ETA (it posted early) This kind of name discrimination is another tool to discourage diversity. I know a lot of people are comfortable with that. I'm not. Nonsense, Later. We all know that when Reginald P. Vanderbilt shows up to a job interview for CFO in a clown suit, he gets hired.
Wait a minute - that actually wasn't as funny as it was suppose to be. He probably would be hired. oh wait - does that make less funny, or more funny? Yep. Cause we all know if it was Virginia Vanderbilt in the clown suit (we are talking a literal clown suit and not a formal business suit right? Cause "clown suit" IS derogatory slang for a business suit...) she wouldn't get hired for the CFO job... I suspect that 'name discrimination' isn't necessarily the FIRST layer of discrimination that a job applicant has to get past...
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Feb 13, 2016 19:14:02 GMT -5
Well, shit. I was going to respond to kittensaver that she's not getting old because she's already old but ya'll went off on some nonsense that I decided not to read.
Oh, look. I did say what I wanted. kittensaver - I believe you are my age so the answer is no because of above. <<tries to run but too dizzy from awful sinus infection and falls down>>
ETA: SAVE THE SNAKE!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 19:25:53 GMT -5
Well, shit. I was going to respond to kittensaver that she's not getting old because she's already old but ya'll went off on some nonsense that I decided not to read. Oh, look. I did say what I wanted. kittensaver - I believe you are my age so the answer is no because of above. <<tries to run but too dizzy from awful sinus infection and falls down>> ETA: SAVE THE SNAKE! Yea, it's the sinus infection making you fall down.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Feb 13, 2016 19:26:09 GMT -5
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Sorry, it's been a long day. And seriously, if ever there were two more perfect stripper names...
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Feb 13, 2016 19:28:44 GMT -5
Oh, I forgot to mention my cousin named her kid Maisy Jo...I still don't know what she was thinking. Great minds think alike. We have a Maisie in our family, too.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 19:41:26 GMT -5
Hmmm..... I wonder what kind of person people expect to show up when they have my name ahead of time. It doesn't fit in any category that I'm aware of (foreign, means something, or even the "ghetto" -isha, 10syllable or bunch of names smashed togetrher names), but it's one-of-a kind. I don't think it says much besides I'm probably female and I have an odd name. A lot of people I meet seem a bit dismayed when they ask if I have a nickname and I tell them no. OAN, while people may make assumptions about me because of my name, I do sometimes make assumptions and judgements about people based on how they handle my name. Not even trying to say it correctly and calling me something that's not even close after you've been introduced to me is rude and disrespectful imo. Last year a new supervisor asked my name, insisted I was making it up, and then asked what the world was my Momma thinking when she named me. I answered "Really?! SHERMAN?!" Yes, I was offended, I'd never gotten a reaction like that. I'd never met him before and I didn't ask him why the bell his Momma picked Sherman of all names. We had a few more run ins before he figured out I didn't like his smart ass mouth.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 13, 2016 20:08:29 GMT -5
Bozo is as lovely and culturally correct as Y'Alljealous. You're falling into the trap of automatically romanticizing ghetto, poor, etc while reflexively vilifying employers. Lol! You're telling us it's quite alright for employers to take applicants out of the running for a job solely based on biases against a certain type of given name....but WE are "reflexively vilifying"? Oh, that's rich! That is really taking the cake. Well when you take the plunge and open Rukh, Inc. you can be as capricious as you want, too. And you, Bozo and Y'Alljealous can eat all the cake you want. Because running a business is all cake and happiness.
Or... you may find that since you're selling a service to customers and customers have certain expectations of the professionals that they interact with, that you might want your employees to have certain professional tendencies and appearances. It's fantastic to be self-righteous and poetic when it comes to ideals and other people's money; you will find when it comes to your own business you sometimes have to be realistic and practical. Bozo and Y'Alljealous may be beautiful and culturally appropriate names but might not convey the right message when you feature them as your top employee consultants at your statistical research business.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 20:14:27 GMT -5
Husband runs some workshops for the older kids in the winter to teach some basic tools and Mason's skills. One of the moms asked if her 20 yr old could come, sure. He has started his own contracting business, flipped a house on his own! Some small jobs. He is very religious and a sweet soul, volunteers a lot. But husband was trying to explain why naming his business Building for Yahweh, might not be the most effective move. It was a challenging conversation I take it, but reality is when someone hands you that business card, the name matters.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Feb 13, 2016 20:22:55 GMT -5
Husband runs some workshops for the older kids in the winter to teach some basic tools and Mason's skills. One of the moms asked if her 20 yr old could come, sure. He has started his own contracting business, flipped a house on his own! Some small jobs. He is very religious and a sweet soul, volunteers a lot. But husband was trying to explain why naming his business Building for Yahweh, might not be the most effective move. It was a challenging conversation I take it, but reality is when someone hands you that business card, the name matters. Yeah, I would assume recovering drug addict if I saw that (or religious kook who will try to recruit me) no thanks. I would rather deal with someone with a ghetto name.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Feb 13, 2016 20:38:39 GMT -5
Oh, I forgot to mention my cousin named her kid Maisy Jo...I still don't know what she was thinking. Great minds think alike. We have a Maisie in our family, too. Hey! There's a Maisy in my family too...except it's my brother's yellow lab. ?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 20:39:36 GMT -5
How dare you judge people on the visual appeal of their resume!
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