Should I remodel? Also, being nosy with finances….

[Ryan]

I am assuming I’m not alone in this, but I find myself looking at how other people spend money and wondering how they are doing it. I’d describe our area as upper middle class, so most of the people that live there do have good jobs and seem to be fairly normal. So in my head, I think that they can’t be making THAT bad of financial decisions. Yet I look at their house, I look at their jobs, and I wonder how they are paying the bills….forget about saving.

The reason it came up is because my wife and I really want to do an addition onto our house to add a master suite. My wife is totally for it, but I’m going back and forth on whether or not we should. We live in an area where there are additions and remodels going on constantly, so it seems like there are a lot of friends considering it or having done it. My wife is pretty conservative as well, but I think she thinks I’m a little gun shy when it comes to bigger purchases and tend to just think about them without really ever moving forward. In her mind, if we know we’re going to live here, have the money to do it, then we should just do it now and enjoy the extra space. The problem is, it would be nice to walk up to someone that just did an addition and say “Hey buddy, what’d you pay for this house? How much was the addition? Did you pay cash or finance it? “. Sure, you can go on the internet but it’s not the same market and you don’t know what exactly they had done.

We got a preliminary estimate and it was something like $70K, but you probably would need to budget $85K. It could come in lower though, but let’s assume the worst. Here’s what we have going on:

Age: 37 (married, 3 kids)
Job: Both employed in secure jobs. I also have a side business.
Debt: House valued at $525K, mortgage is $375K.
Retirement: $400K (combined) plus 15 years into a state pension.
Liquid: $125K
529: $70K total

PROS:

-Great location, great house, and addition would make it perfect.
-Ranch house, so could live there many years.
-Location extremely close to both of our jobs, so we put very little miles on car (both paid off, 110K and 55K miles)
-Could likely get a HELOC and finance a portion of the construction and pay it off over time.
-Expenses will be reduced by roughly $650/month next school year cause all will be in public gradeschool.
-Business will likely do very well this year and liquid savings will be much higher as well as retirement by the time we started.
-Wife’s job is extremely stable, my job appears to be very stable right now. Also have side-business which has a good track record.
-Still within the recommend limits counting 2 income sources and adding in proposed debt.

CONS:

-Potential more stress if problems are uncovered.
-Would need to pull from savings to pay for.
-Might be easier to just move, although would be very difficult to find what we want in this area.
-Extra room might not be necessary since the house isn’t that cramped.

We bought our house for $500K in 2011 and the redfin estimate shows around $550K value now, but I rounded down. If we added a master, based on the comps, it would probably be valued at somewhere between $600-$650K. Of course, that’s just looking at pictures and assuming that ours would compare to those.

So the question is, given all this information, at what point (if any) would you feel comfortable pulling the trigger on a $85K purchase.

[techguy]

If I were in your shoes, it would be a YES!

This additional would improve your quality of life each and every day.  Like you said, it would make your house perfect.

The only bad thing about this addition is going through the hassle of the construction work.

Just remember that construction costs typically increase year after year.  And if you postpone it now and do it 5-10 years from now, you will pay more and lose out of 5-10 years of enjoyment.

[kittensaver]

Feb 5, 2016 13:06:26 GMT -5 techguy said:

If I were in your shoes, it would be a YES!

This additional would improve your quality of life each and every day.  Like you said, it would make your house perfect.

The only bad thing about this addition is going through the hassle of the construction work.

Just remember that construction costs typically increase year after year.  And if you postpone it now and do it 5-10 years from now, you will pay more and lose out of 5-10 years of enjoyment.

 If it will "make the house perfect," I say go for it. Your finances are in order. Better to live where you are satisfied and happy than wonder and compare yourselves to others around you every day. Build a nest that makes both of you happy and comfortable and those comparisons will largely fall away.

Yeah, I too sometimes wondered how some folks in my neighborhood (a bedroom community in the beach cities of La La Land) pulled it all off (McMansion, SAHP, two Beemers, three kids in private school, multiple ski trips to Mammoth) - - and then 2008 hit. Many disappeared/moved away. They were living in the proverbial "house of cards." You know - the liar loan mortgage, high lease payments on cars, rich granddaddy was covering tuition . . . but it was not sustainable. Better to be happy with what you have and not envious of others who unbeknownst to you are living precariously. JMHO YMMV

I just "pulled the trigger" and finally redid my kitchen after 14 1/2 years in my house. I saved up and did it all cash. The photos are over on the 2016 Slackers Club thread. It gives me a lot of satisfaction every day to look at it and to work in it. TOTALLY worth it.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[gregintenn]

Remodeling your home I can't help you with. I can help with the question of how your neighbors appear to live such extravagant lifestyles. DEBT!

[phil5185]

-Might be easier to just move, although would be very difficult to find what we want in this area.
-Extra room might not be necessary since the house isn’t that cramped.

We bought our house for $500K in 2011 and the redfin estimate shows around $550K value now, but I rounded down. If we added a master, based on the comps, it would probably be valued at somewhere between $600-$650K. Of course, that’s just looking at pictures and assuming that ours would compare to those.

So the question is, given all this information, at what point (if any) would you feel comfortable pulling the trigger on a $85K purchase.

As for "valued at $600 to $650K". Often an added-to house doesn't go up in appraised value. As a general rule, changing the foot-print of a house is iffy. The floor-plan is unplanned, the house has newplumbing/old plumbing, newelectric/old electric. The roof seams and the siding seams settle at different rates - lots of future issues.  Many of us in the Landlord business won't even look at added-to houses, only as built.

If I wanted to spend $85k on a bigger house, I would buy a new as-built house that meets my needs. That way your $85k adds $85k to your Net Worth (as opposed to adding only $40k at most).

appear to live such extravagant lifestyles. DEBT!

Have you seen the commercial where the guy has a new McMansion, 2 new cars, a new riding mower - sobbing that he is in debt up to his eyeballs? lol

[cranberry]

Feb 5, 2016 12:49:08 GMT -5 Ryan said:

I am assuming I’m not alone in this, but I find myself looking at how other people spend money and wondering how they are doing it. I’d describe our area as upper middle class, so most of the people that live there do have good jobs and seem to be fairly normal. So in my head, I think that they can’t be making THAT bad of financial decisions. Yet I look at their house, I look at their jobs, and I wonder how they are paying the bills….forget about saving.


Sorry, I flinched when I read that.  Being upper middle class doesn't necessarily make people "fairly normal."  And I agree with gregintenn that debt likely financed much of what the neighbors have.  Whether they can successfully manage that debt is unknown. 

Sorry again - I also can't figure out how to get my comment out of this little box to separate it.  

[yogiii]

Like everyone else has said, they likely carry a lot of debt and are one job loss away from stress city.

[Ryan]

Feb 5, 2016 13:35:28 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

-Might be easier to just move, although would be very difficult to find what we want in this area.
-Extra room might not be necessary since the house isn’t that cramped.

We bought our house for $500K in 2011 and the redfin estimate shows around $550K value now, but I rounded down. If we added a master, based on the comps, it would probably be valued at somewhere between $600-$650K. Of course, that’s just looking at pictures and assuming that ours would compare to those.

So the question is, given all this information, at what point (if any) would you feel comfortable pulling the trigger on a $85K purchase.

As for "valued at $600 to $650K". Often an added-to house doesn't go up in appraised value. As a general rule, changing the foot-print of a house is iffy. The floor-plan is unplanned, the house has newplumbing/old plumbing, newelectric/old electric. The roof seams and the siding seams settle at different rates - lots of future issues.  Many of us in the Landlord business won't even look at added-to houses, only as built.

If I wanted to spend $85k on a bigger house, I would buy a new as-built house that meets my needs. That way your $85k adds $85k to your Net Worth (as opposed to adding only $40k at most).

I see where you're coming from, but I don't know if homebuyers follow that logic around here. Most of the houses are old so remodels and additions are common.  I don't think the addition would be too far out of place because it basically just be a small tack-on to the back of the house.

I've seen some really bad additions, but the worst was a house in my area that was an original small 1950's ranch.  They basically just attached a 2 story addition to the back of the house and it looks ridiculous. 

[kittensaver]

Feb 5, 2016 15:09:36 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Feb 5, 2016 13:35:28 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

I see where you're coming from, but I don't know if homebuyers follow that logic around here. Most of the houses are old so remodels and additions are common.  I don't think the addition would be too far out of place because it basically just be a small tack-on to the back of the house.

I've seen some really bad additions, but the worst was a house in my area that was an original small 1950's ranch.  They basically just attached a 2 story addition to the back of the house and it looks ridiculous. 

This sounds like our neighborhood. Most houses built in the 1940's and 50s, remodeled (and remuddled!) anywhere from 0 to every time a new owner comes in. I agree that tacked-on additions look horrible. Just make sure that you pay as much attention to what the outside looks like as the inside and you will be fine.

[bean29]

My Parent's house has a very well done addition, and I am sure it is one that truly adds value. their house was a traditional cape cod, and the original owners added a kitchen area on to the design so they would have full dining room and a small kitchen. When they added on, Mom wanted a bathroom and the kitchen but it made the most sense to complete the L and square off the house, so they only had enough room to add to the kitchen. It was suggested that they add on to the second floor and add a bathroom upstairs, but Mom and Dad were empty nesters at that point and they decided not to do that. I think it would have been very beneficial for resale, but que sera and all that.

If I remember correctly you posted the rough draft of your plans and you are not getting a really good layout. You need to end up with a layout that is desirable on the resale market. Then if you want to more, you will be able to sell and get a good price.

Have you shopped around to see how much it would cost to get what you want? My brother is going to remodel his kitchen this summer - they thought about moving and shopped around but decided to stay where they are b/c they are close to both Mom's. Like you my brother has the $$ to do whatever he wants.

As someone with a long commute, being close to work is very valuable. We are in our house 11 years this summer. When we moved in, our son had just finished his last year at the grade school and DD was going into 4th grade - now both are in college...those years go fast, so also plan for how you might use the space when you have an empty nest.

[Ryan]

Feb 5, 2016 14:34:13 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

I remodeled an older house with addition, regretted it, and now we've moved to a newer home with a much better floor plan after wasting a ton of money.  So I'd think about whether you like the things that are hard to change - ceiling height, wall placement, size of the rooms, etc. because 85k isn't going to go far when you start doing structural stuff.  Taking that 85k and buying you a new house might get you a lot more.

I'm pretty sure our old neighbors thought we were crazy and possibly selling drugs to finance our lifestyle.   In actuality we probably earned 2-3x the average income in our neighborhood and had a ton of equity from our previous home.

I'm sure there would be issues we'd come across, but I don't think it would be anything monumental if we're tacking onto the back. The main problem with looking for a new house is we’re in a very unique area. We are in this little section of town that is surrounded by pish-posh suburbs, but we remain unincorporated (low taxes) and feed into the same school districts…the lots are also big. Most of the houses around us are true ranches (no basement) and very small, so the only thing we could do is knock it down and rebuild. So finding something suitable in the unincorporated section is very tough and finding something in the ideal part (where we are) is even tougher. Still though, it might be worth considering.

[gooddecisions]

If I didn't know better, I'd think you were my husband. Our financial and family picture is almost identical. The addition I want is a nice screen porch and patio. We spend tons of time in the backyard and the existing deck is old, too small and not ideal at all. But, it sucks shelling out the money to pay for it. 

My next door neighbor added on a master to his downstairs. It turned out beautiful. Just about everyone on my street has done something whether it was extending the kitchen, adding a Florida room, adding an upscale backyard patio, or finishing the room over the garage or attic. Every single remodel has been beautiful. But, like yours- these are $500k+ homes and upper middle class homeowners.  People aren't cutting corners on the additions/remodels.

I don't know whether you'll be able to add the full value of the addition when it comes time to sell. It seems like the market is a bigger player in value rather than upgrades. If you're there long enough, you may very well recoup the cost while improving your quality of life with the ideal master suite. Moving is not necessarily a solution because like you said, finding the home in your area will be tough and then I bet you'll still find stuff that doesn't quite work for your lifestyle. I say do it.

[Ryan]

Feb 5, 2016 15:31:34 GMT -5 bean29 said:

My Parent's house has a very well done addition, and I am sure it is one that truly adds value. their house was a traditional cape cod, and the original owners added a kitchen area on to the design so they would have full dining room and a small kitchen. When they added on, Mom wanted a bathroom and the kitchen but it made the most sense to complete the L and square off the house, so they only had enough room to add to the kitchen. It was suggested that they add on to the second floor and add a bathroom upstairs, but Mom and Dad were empty nesters at that point and they decided not to do that. I think it would have been very beneficial for resale, but que sera and all that.

If I remember correctly you posted the rough draft of your plans and you are not getting a really good layout. You need to end up with a layout that is desirable on the resale market. Then if you want to more, you will be able to sell and get a good price.

Have you shopped around to see how much it would cost to get what you want? My brother is going to remodel his kitchen this summer - they thought about moving and shopped around but decided to stay where they are b/c they are close to both Mom's. Like you my brother has the $$ to do whatever he wants.

As someone with a long commute, being close to work is very valuable. We are in our house 11 years this summer. When we moved in, our son had just finished his last year at the grade school and DD was going into 4th grade - now both are in college...those years go fast, so also plan for how you might use the space when you have an empty nest.

Yes, I posted it last year I think.  Originally I wasn't thrilled with the layout because it seemed you'd have to create a hallway to get to the new master and wasn't sure how it would look.  Then I saw this design, which is very similar to our house and it looked much better.  Basically they didn't create the long hallway and instead just put a door in and, instead, made a smaller hallway leading into the bedroom.  

[Tiny]

While Phil has a valid point about combining old and new under one roof... I think "adding an addition" doesn't mean what it use to mean.

In the olden days it meant "attaching" another structure to an existing structure without a lot of change to the existing structure. Sometimes it could mean - increasing the size of an existing porch and enclosing it - making it into additional living space. In my older established area I have a whole litany of examples of "horrors" done to houses to add living space. I'm pretty sure my brother probably did a few as well (to houses he was flipping). I know for a fact when we sold my mom's house - the new owners immediately 'enclosed' the front porch (didn't add a new roof OR refloor the decaying porch), knocked down some interior walls and are using the 'porch' space as part of the house (I'm guessing the floor/room gets nasty cold in the winter.... what with nothing under the floor and nothing above the new ceiling).   The enclosed porch is very obviously an enclosed porch - there's no way to hide it.   

Contrast that with my neighbor's addition - they had an architect involved. They tore off the old back 'porch', had a new larger foundation poured, and added on about 20 feet of new "addition' across the the rear of their house. They redid the entire roof line and resided the house. They also had the heat/AC redone and plumbing done for the new space. If you didn't know what their house originally looked like (or weren't familiar with the "style" of house) you would never guess from the outside that it wasn't originally built with the "addition".


I'm also seeing a lot of "additions" being added to the 80's and 90's era wood frame houses out in "suburbia" where my family lives. Again, it all seems well done and the new space meshes with the old space. It's a way to double the size of your older 'cookie cutter' 1400 sq foot house into a modern "mcmansion". I've noticed too that the new remodels often remove/improve on their facades - so that the house no longer looks like one of the original "5 models" for the subdivision.


If the square footage of other houses in your neighborhood is being increased... and with the value of the house, your loan/equity, and the relatively "small" amount of $$ needed to do the addition - I'd say go for it.


(80K is a lot of money for me - that's a whole 'fixer upper rental house'... )

[gooddecisions]

If you're going to do it, make sure it's perfect. Go to every open house and every parade of homes. Talk to your neighbors. People love showing off their renovations. The floor plans may not be exactly what you have, but you'll start to piece it together. This should be at least a 12 month process. I've been thrilled with the remodels we've done so far, but I put a lot of thought and research into every detail. And trust me, the details matter.

It's just too much money to spend if it's not going to be everything you want it to be and more.

[debthaven]

I would do the addition from what you say. 

You can't walk up to a stranger and ask them how much they paid for an addition, but if there are any neighbours you are closer to, I don't see anything wrong with asking politely. IMO there is a huge difference between asking for that information because you are planning to do something similar yourselves, and asking just out of curiosity, which is obviously very rude. Plus if you are admiring somebody's addition, they will probably be very happy to talk about it.

This said, it's much harder to ask if they financed the addition or paid cash. You could always play dumb and ask "But isn't it difficult to get a loan if you still have a mortgage?" and you'll probably get more detailed info.    

We added onto our house not once, but twice: once when we purchased it in 1984 (it was originally the "gardener's lodge" of the huge house next door), and then again in 1992. The first time we broke the side wall and added a third (Master) bedroom / second bathroom. The second time we raised the roof over the first addition and added a fourth (also Master) bedroom / third bathroom. We have NEVER regretted it, and we have never had a problem with either addition. The house shrank for a while when all four kids were younger but it grew again when DS1 left for college. 

The only thing I do regret is not having installed double glazing in the original part of the house when we did the first addition (we did install double glazing in both additions). Yes of course we could do it now but we have HUGE HUGE HUGE windows / French doors and it's insanely expensive now. 

[alabamagal]

We added onto our house in GA.  Bought a standard ranch house (3BR/2BA) in 1988.  Had 3 kids.  In 2000, we added on a new master suite with entrance from the kitchen side of the house (not directly from the kitchen we added a small buffer space.  We basically designed it ourselves by looking at some of the popular features at the time.  Basically had a very large bedroom with exit to patio into back yard with french doors and double windows.  Added on large bathroom with separate shower and jacuzzi tub for 2, large walk-in closet.  A little over 500 sq ft total.  So we ended up with 4BR/3BA and 2250 sq ft.  Cost was ~30k in a LCOL.  You could tell it was addition, but I think it was done well.  We LOVED having a separate area from the kids, they were 6-9 at the time we did it and it was great when they were teens.

Since the construction work was mainly only through a wall on the back of the kitchen.  It really didn't disrupt our lives all that much.  In fact it was much easier than the kitchen remodel we did a few years later.

We sold the house last year due to job in a new state.  Once the kids were all at college/out of the house it seemed like the house was too big.  There was a whole half of the house that didn't get used except when we had kids come home for visit.

When we sold the house we went through a relocation company.  The price we got for the house was really only original purchase price plus addition cost plus a little more.  Rate of return was pretty sucky, but that was mostly due to the area we lived in where none of the houses went up much in the 28 years we lived there.  Relo company finally sold it this month for ~$20k less than we got for it.

[debthaven]

Alabama I'm glad that you were able to get the 20K more! 

[Tiny]

So the question is, given all this information, at what point (if any) would you feel comfortable pulling the trigger on a $85K purchase


I kinda did this when I purchased "income properties" - be aware both my purchases were under 80K... so we're not talking big money here...

But, I was willing to take the plunge when:

I was satisfied with the amount of money I was saving for retirement.
I ran the numbers and I could swing the purchases (take on debt) without effecting how much I was saving every year for retirement.
I was satisfied with the amount of money going into my 'sinking funds' - and that going forward I would be able to allocate more to them if needed (property taxes are the BANE of my financial life).
I had a pretty good handle on what big expenses I might have over the next 2/3/5 years and how I was going to pay for them.
I had a pretty good feeling about my job and skill set (honestly confident I'd stay employed) and had a pretty good estimate of what my future income would be.  

I had a reasonable idea of what things I wanted to accomplish in 2/3/5 years and how that would be impacted by what I was planning to spend (and the debt I was taking on) and on becoming a landlord.   Basically, I was ok giving up spending/saving the money  long term that  I spent/am spending on the two properties.  

One of the best ways to know if you should spend (or borrow) 85K would be to sit down and run the numbers - figure out how it impacts your savings and spending for the next handful of years...

What will you have to give up if you do the remodel? What will get if you do the remodel? If you are ok with the all the things you WON"T be able to do then the remodel/new addition should be a good thing to do.

FWIW:  If I wasn't saving so hard for retirement I could have a much higher standard of living (and probably afford to spend more on 'rental properties"     )

 

[Bonny]

Three words worth repeating:

Hire an architect.

Hire an architect.

Hire an architect.

[Ombud]

Feb 5, 2016 15:48:40 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Feb 5, 2016 15:31:34 GMT -5 bean29 said:

My Parent's house has a very well done addition, and I am sure it is one that truly adds value. their house was a traditional cape cod, and the original owners added a kitchen area on to the design so they would have full dining room and a small kitchen. When they added on, Mom wanted a bathroom and the kitchen but it made the most sense to complete the L and square off the house, so they only had enough room to add to the kitchen. It was suggested that they add on to the second floor and add a bathroom upstairs, but Mom and Dad were empty nesters at that point and they decided not to do that. I think it would have been very beneficial for resale, but que sera and all that.

If I remember correctly you posted the rough draft of your plans and you are not getting a really good layout. You need to end up with a layout that is desirable on the resale market. Then if you want to more, you will be able to sell and get a good price.

Have you shopped around to see how much it would cost to get what you want? My brother is going to remodel his kitchen this summer - they thought about moving and shopped around but decided to stay where they are b/c they are close to both Mom's. Like you my brother has the $$ to do whatever he wants.

As someone with a long commute, being close to work is very valuable. We are in our house 11 years this summer. When we moved in, our son had just finished his last year at the grade school and DD was going into 4th grade - now both are in college...those years go fast, so also plan for how you might use the space when you have an empty nest.

Yes, I posted it last year I think.  Originally I wasn't thrilled with the layout because it seemed you'd have to create a hallway to get to the new master and wasn't sure how it would look.  Then I saw this design, which is very similar to our house and it looked much better.  Basically they didn't create the long hallway and instead just put a door in and, instead, made a smaller hallway leading into the bedroom.  

That's almost my layout .... add a formal dining room to livingroom (15×30), entryhall, call office a breakfast nook, dbl family room (aka eat in ... 15×20), enlarge master and you've got mine.

Not such a bad layout but you might want to switch the size of the hall & master bath. When kids were little I loved having my room in back!

1. Office
2. Music room
3. Guest room (GS1)
4. Mine

[whoisjohngalt]

You might also want to find out how much it will add to your property taxes and insurance.

[CCL]

I noticed the new master is a lot bigger than the other bedrooms. I can tell you from experience it is wonderful to have that extra room in a bedroom/bath. I was used to barely fitting my furniture in, but after living in a house with a larger bedroom and bath I will never go back to a small one.

I say go for it. You are in good financial shape. I also agree with your wife. Do it now so you and your family can enjoy it while you need and can benefit most from the extra space. I'd make that master bath bigger and add French doors from the office to the patio while you are at it.

[TheHaitian]

JUST DO IT!!!

[giramomma]

I would also go for it.

And not worry about how others pay for things.

Our income and lifestyle doesn't really match, especially compared to my kids' friends at school. I know it makes some people scratch their heads. But, whaves. It's not because we are irresponsible with money (for the most part.)

I've also worked with the low income population, or people who classify themselves as low income. Some low income folks, you couldn't really tell they were low income until you looked at the kids' shoes. Not many people go through life checking out kids' shoes, to see if they are ill fitting, have holes in the soles, etc.

Then there were folks who were really middle class taking advantage of services meant for the low income.  That's kind of an interesting thing to contemplate as well...the solid middle class thinking/behaving like they are poor.

[8 Bit WWBG]

If you are posting this again, then yeah, do it.  You are doing it for the right reasons - to enjoy the house.

As to how others pay for it, I wonder the same thing.  You never know who has wealthy parents or who saved major money early on, or who is on the up and up maybe making big sales or just having a great few years all around.  Sure, some may be building their houses on quicksand, but yes there really ARE people out there who can afford this stuff legit or have great job perks.

One person I know takes a good amount of trips thanks to being given travel vouchers by his employer.  He had to travel a lot for his job, and they gave out travel vouchers as a thank you.  He was also able to buy a second property because of a relocation bonus.

I get we deal with a lot of folks who just KUWTJ when they can't afford to.  But there does seem to be a tendency to have to explain away, and bring down others luxuries.  Some people are just doing well.

[Ryan]

Well, we finally moved forward and got the plans drawn up.  At least, we got the preliminary concept drawings and scope of work in order to get some quotes. The plans would include a master bedroom/bath and borrow a little space from the existing house.  Total SF that would be added would be 380 and, I'm being told, I could expect to pay around $150/SF for the new space.  That total would be around $57K.  Plus I'd need to do some work in an existing bathroom which could cost another $10-$15K.  I'll be curious to see what the quotes come in at.

We were looking for a lot to potentially build on, but tear-down houses were going for close to $300K.  Since people wanted to get into the school district, it made buying a tear-down kind of difficult because people wanted to buy the houses to live in...so they were pushing up the prices to closer to $325K-$350K.  

We also looked moving within the district, but right now the average list price of a 4 bedroom house is close to $725K, but even taking out the higher end houses the average price was still $650K.  We are still considering one house that is in an area close to us that is listed for $619K.  The only problem with the house is that it doesn't have quite the master bathroom/closet that we would like and the property taxes are 2x what we pay now ($13K).  Plus the mortgage rate we'd get on the house are probably closer to 4% and we have a 3.5% rate locked in right now.

One of the things that has always held me back is figuring out neighborhood we want to live in.  Our area now has big lots, wooded, unincorporated, and very quiet.  We don't interact much with the neighbors because our houses are spread fairly far apart and because our neighbors are older.  The house I mentioned above is located in a neighborhood that has a good mix of older people and younger families so my kids would have more younger kids around to play with (unlike our current house).  Part of me wants that for them, but another part of me likes the privacy.  I think I don't like nosy neighbors, but I do like casually strolling throughout a neighborhood and seeing people that I know.

[Shooby]

  If you like the location and are happy with the home and this will just make it that much better to you, then why not?

[jelloshots4all]

SO you are going from 1 bath to 2 with the addition, with 2 adults and 3 kids- DO IT!

The 2 neighborhoods I have lived in during the past 11 years, were typically retired people whom were the original owners of the homes, and few kids/little kids.  But in both instances, many of the retired people have left to move south/closer to family/ other reasons.  And guess what, younger families have moved in.  Both of our houses were built in the 50's but in a great school system, lots of land, and close to so many amenities (shopping, grocery stores, parks, etc.). 

[Ryan]

Mar 15, 2017 14:20:23 GMT -5 jelloshots4all said:

SO you are going from 1 bath to 2 with the addition, with 2 adults and 3 kids- DO IT!

The 2 neighborhoods I have lived in during the past 11 years, were typically retired people whom were the original owners of the homes, and few kids/little kids.  But in both instances, many of the retired people have left to move south/closer to family/ other reasons.  And guess what, younger families have moved in.  Both of our houses were built in the 50's but in a great school system, lots of land, and close to so many amenities (shopping, grocery stores, parks, etc.). 

Yes, I'm pretty sure we'll move forward with it at this point but I'm just waiting for the quotes to make sure they are in line with what we were thinking.  The new layout will add the master bedroom, big walk-in closet, and a bathroom with dual sinks and shower.  The 3 other bedrooms will be fairly small (12x12"), but will be sufficient for just 1 kid.  

A lot of people have told us about that our neighborhood will start to turn over and it actually has started already to some extent. There is definitely a different feel in our area, despite the extra kids, that is different from another area we looked that is just .5 mile a way.  Even the families that are close to us, I don't really see them out and about much.  Maybe some of it is because there aren't sidewalks or because there is no local park by us (besides the school park).  I've also thought that part of it might be that there are so many retired people that outsource their lawn care that we really never see any of them outside doing anything.  For instance, on our street, there are probably 10 houses on our street with about 4 of them being retired, another 3 of them being in their 50's or 60's, and the remaining 2 having kids in their houses....yet, I don't really see the families with kids at all.  

My only conclusion is that the type of people that would move into an area like this are people that want to keep to themselves more and aren't really looking for a chatty neighborhood.  I'm not really looking for that either to a large extent, but I'm just surprised that it swings so much the opposite way.

The other neighborhood we looked at is very close to us and the price points are a bit higher with a similar mix, but probably more younger families.  In that area, it seems more vibrant overall.  If I had any hesitations, it's that by doing the addition I'm committing to stay in the house for a long period of time.  I could just move into an area that skews a bit more social.  

I have to admit that I feel like we're in a weird spot with our friendships.  For the most part, we don't live near our really good friends who have all kinda scattered around the suburbs.  We still see them, but they all also have neighborhood friends.  Since we don't have those neigbhorhood friends, at times it fees like we have no friends!  Actually, I think we have a lot of really good acquaintances but really haven't taken it to the next level with anybody...maybe that's my fault.

I think part of my problem is that I'm a little picky on who I spend time with.  I had great, great friends all throughout college and afterwards where all of our wives got along really well.  Now, I feel like we run into a lot of people where me and the husband get along, but my wife and their wife aren't really clicking....or vice-versa.