The Job Hunt Thread

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 16, 2024 12:00:44 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

That's why I'm wondering if this is just the company bringing on people through a loophole during a hiring freeze until they have the green light to hire direct again (probably 2025) He doesn't really have experience beyond his internship here for a few months where he was just doing scut work so if they want some serious help they're going to have to spend quite a bit of time training him in.

How well your son did scut work is an indication of his potential.  Don’t ding it because work habits are a decent part of what makes a successful employee.  

It’s entirely possible this is a back door way hiring him.  $30/hour or $62k/year isn’t a bad starting place with no experience.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jul 16, 2024 12:14:11 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Jul 16, 2024 12:00:44 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

That's why I'm wondering if this is just the company bringing on people through a loophole during a hiring freeze until they have the green light to hire direct again (probably 2025) He doesn't really have experience beyond his internship here for a few months where he was just doing scut work so if they want some serious help they're going to have to spend quite a bit of time training him in.

How well your son did scut work is an indication of his potential.  Don’t ding it because work habits are a decent part of what makes a successful employee.  

It’s entirely possible this is a back door way hiring him.  $30/hour or $62k/year isn’t a bad starting place with no experience.

Oh for sure, especially since he could live at home if he wanted to (with a 45 minute commute).  He would be starting out making more than I do after 30 years here and if they hired him on direct it would jump.  I just know he's itching to leave the area.

[giramomma]

Jul 16, 2024 6:44:49 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

This question is for my kid.  He has been applying the past few weeks with no real bites yet until this week...at my company where he interned last year...only he'd be working in another city.  He has an interview this afternoon and frankly will probably get the job.  The issue is, he doesn't REALLY want to work here.  He is set on moving to CO and working in an aerospace industry.  This job is a contract position, has no benefits (that he knows of) and only 5 days of vacation a year.  We're in a hiring freeze, so I imagine this is how they're getting around it.  It also doesn't pay great for engineering (they're offering him $30/hour).

So, how does he handle this at the interview?  Does he just pretend this is where he wants to work forever or warn them he's looking for a permanent job?  Is it uncool to walk away a month later if one of the CO jobs comes through (he applied to 15 places out there just yesterday).

What's the vibe at your office?

The new place I applied at. They want it straight and honest. During my first and second interview, I had 1-2 questions on skills, and the rest (I would say 10-12 questions) were all getting at whether or not I had integrity, if I was a thoughtful person.

In my second interview, that asked me to clarify what I meant by advancing (whether it was in the unit I was hired into, or broader, within the different arm of the University that I'm moving to-which would mean leaving the unit). I answered honestly. I no nothing about the different arm I'm moving to, or the unit. I told them I know what career growth doesn't look like, explained that, and said..everything else I'm open to.

I wouldn't worry about the pay so much. Unless your DS has a long list of co-curricular activities and/or soft skills (like project management) that would set him apart above other peers. 

And it's also a contract job. There has to be language in there if the employee breaks the contract. I'd just ask what that language is for clarification. I'd couch it as "I've never had a contract job before. I am seeking clarification." Then you avoid the issue all together.

[giramomma]

So. I took a peek.
It seems like there is not one defined path for aerospace engineers. It looks like it's a culmination of a lot of skills 

www.prospects.ac.uk/careers-advice/what-can-i-do-with-my-degree/aerospace-engineering#job-options (I know this is from the UK)

www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/aerospace-engineering-career

And your DS is going to have to just try things to start working on those skills.

So. I wouldn't delay too long, in terms of having your DS do something related to engineering...whether it's at your place of employment or in CO. 

He may not be able to get his dream job right away. I think that is OK. You don't leave undergrad job ready. Not in the same way my DS left his school job ready.
I wouldn't wait a year though, to start working on them. Especially since he doesn't have a ton of experience.


 

[TheOtherMe]

Jul 16, 2024 9:36:58 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jul 16, 2024 9:06:10 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Fort Collins is no longer even a medium cost of live area.  Every area along the front range is a HCOL area.  

He's been living in the Cities, so he won't find Fort Collins as shocking as I do.  It was this quiet smaller city when I lived there.  Now it's one huge city from Fort Collins to Colorado Springs.  

Weather is much better in Fort Collins than in the Midwest but otherwise it's one big huge city.  The mountains are there but so are the tourists.

My brother referred to Fort Collins as the Council Bluffs of Colorado.  I have no idea how accurate that is but it made me laugh. 

When I lived there for 3 years, it was much more liveable and fun because it wasn't as big and rich as Boulder.  I lived in a neighborhood where people worked and were very neighborly.  We helped each other out.  I only had one neighbor in Boulder who was like that.

It was much smaller then and my parents would actually drive in Fort Collins without me in the car.  They didn't consider that in Boulder.

The best thing was they have the vet school, so my vet bill as so much cheaper than in Boulder.  

Fort Collins would be my choice if I were ever to go back, but it's so big I don't recognize it.  The podunk towns around it are now huge subdivisions.  

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jul 16, 2024 13:23:27 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jul 16, 2024 6:44:49 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

This question is for my kid.  He has been applying the past few weeks with no real bites yet until this week...at my company where he interned last year...only he'd be working in another city.  He has an interview this afternoon and frankly will probably get the job.  The issue is, he doesn't REALLY want to work here.  He is set on moving to CO and working in an aerospace industry.  This job is a contract position, has no benefits (that he knows of) and only 5 days of vacation a year.  We're in a hiring freeze, so I imagine this is how they're getting around it.  It also doesn't pay great for engineering (they're offering him $30/hour).

So, how does he handle this at the interview?  Does he just pretend this is where he wants to work forever or warn them he's looking for a permanent job?  Is it uncool to walk away a month later if one of the CO jobs comes through (he applied to 15 places out there just yesterday).

What's the vibe at your office?

The new place I applied at. They want it straight and honest. During my first and second interview, I had 1-2 questions on skills, and the rest (I would say 10-12 questions) were all getting at whether or not I had integrity, if I was a thoughtful person.

In my second interview, that asked me to clarify what I meant by advancing (whether it was in the unit I was hired into, or broader, within the different arm of the University that I'm moving to-which would mean leaving the unit). I answered honestly. I no nothing about the different arm I'm moving to, or the unit. I told them I know what career growth doesn't look like, explained that, and said..everything else I'm open to.

I wouldn't worry about the pay so much. Unless your DS has a long list of co-curricular activities and/or soft skills (like project management) that would set him apart above other peers. 

And it's also a contract job. There has to be language in there if the employee breaks the contract. I'd just ask what that language is for clarification. I'd couch it as "I've never had a contract job before. I am seeking clarification." Then you avoid the issue all together.

See, I wouldn't even know how to answer that question.  Office vibe?  I dunno.  Everyone shows up and does their job.  We're contract manufacturers with many customer teams so some accounts are more difficult than others and it's also constantly shifting as customers come and go. There's very little oversight in any department. I rarely see my boss at all. How we're doing is measured every quarter with all the various metrics. Basically if we get the widgets out the door on time and the customers are happy with the quality, we are golden.

But, turns out he probably isn't getting the job after all as they must have suspected he was a flight risk after their interview. It was a contract to hire on after the freeze is over. At the end they asked him if he was truly more interested in manufacturing than design and if he would be committed to working there for long enough to not set them both back. The kid has zero ability to lie so he told them he preferred design and analytics. He didn't tell me how he answered the question about how long he'd be willing to stay, so I'm guessing he told the truth there too.

I'm torn on how I feel about this because I can only look at it through my viewpoint, which is you don't turn down a good job at a solid company in a LCOL area. He's not me though and has no intention of living a traditional, get a good job that you stay at forever, settle down, buy a house, get married and have 2.4 kids life.  I could see him renting with roommates forever, and spending all his money on travel instead of stuff.

 

[azucena]

Jul 16, 2024 12:00:44 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

That's why I'm wondering if this is just the company bringing on people through a loophole during a hiring freeze until they have the green light to hire direct again (probably 2025) He doesn't really have experience beyond his internship here for a few months where he was just doing scut work so if they want some serious help they're going to have to spend quite a bit of time training him in.

He should reach out to career office at his school and ask if they will check for engineers in CO and help him set up informational interviews with alums as a way to start networking.

[Opti]

Jul 16, 2024 14:44:13 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jul 16, 2024 13:23:27 GMT -5 giramomma said:

What's the vibe at your office?

The new place I applied at. They want it straight and honest. During my first and second interview, I had 1-2 questions on skills, and the rest (I would say 10-12 questions) were all getting at whether or not I had integrity, if I was a thoughtful person.

In my second interview, that asked me to clarify what I meant by advancing (whether it was in the unit I was hired into, or broader, within the different arm of the University that I'm moving to-which would mean leaving the unit). I answered honestly. I no nothing about the different arm I'm moving to, or the unit. I told them I know what career growth doesn't look like, explained that, and said..everything else I'm open to.

I wouldn't worry about the pay so much. Unless your DS has a long list of co-curricular activities and/or soft skills (like project management) that would set him apart above other peers. 

And it's also a contract job. There has to be language in there if the employee breaks the contract. I'd just ask what that language is for clarification. I'd couch it as "I've never had a contract job before. I am seeking clarification." Then you avoid the issue all together.

See, I wouldn't even know how to answer that question.  Office vibe?  I dunno.  Everyone shows up and does their job.  We're contract manufacturers with many customer teams so some accounts are more difficult than others and it's also constantly shifting as customers come and go. There's very little oversight in any department. I rarely see my boss at all. How we're doing is measured every quarter with all the various metrics. Basically if we get the widgets out the door on time and the customers are happy with the quality, we are golden.

But, turns out he probably isn't getting the job after all as they must have suspected he was a flight risk after their interview. It was a contract to hire on after the freeze is over. At the end they asked him if he was truly more interested in manufacturing than design and if he would be committed to working there for long enough to not set them both back. The kid has zero ability to lie so he told them he preferred design and analytics. He didn't tell me how he answered the question about how long he'd be willing to stay, so I'm guessing he told the truth there too.

I'm torn on how I feel about this because I can only look at it through my viewpoint, which is you don't turn down a good job at a solid company in a LCOL area. He's not me though and has no intention of living a traditional, get a good job that you stay at forever, settle down, buy a house, get married and have 2.4 kids life.  I could see him renting with roommates forever, and spending all his money on travel instead of stuff.

 

He has to live life as him, so good he starts now. I blame my midwestern values for wanting to be honest and upfront most of the time. I do not like lying, but I try not to volunteer things that employers are going to use against me.

I don't know if this helps any, but I am the eldest of three sisters, only the middle one D, has kids. I have an XH. B has not had a husband or kids. We are all older than you if your profile is correct.

[Opti]

Jul 16, 2024 15:31:09 GMT -5 azucena said:

Jul 16, 2024 12:00:44 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

That's why I'm wondering if this is just the company bringing on people through a loophole during a hiring freeze until they have the green light to hire direct again (probably 2025) He doesn't really have experience beyond his internship here for a few months where he was just doing scut work so if they want some serious help they're going to have to spend quite a bit of time training him in.

He should reach out to career office at his school and ask if they will check for engineers in CO and help him set up informational interviews with alums as a way to start networking.

Nice. PSGCNJ pushed this as a good thing to do when we were helping unemployed New Jerseyans find their next position. 

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jul 16, 2024 9:06:10 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Fort Collins is no longer even a medium cost of live area.  Every area along the front range is a HCOL area.  

He's been living in the Cities, so he won't find Fort Collins as shocking as I do.  It was this quiet smaller city when I lived there.  Now it's one huge city from Fort Collins to Colorado Springs.  

Weather is much better in Fort Collins than in the Midwest but otherwise it's one big huge city.  The mountains are there but so are the tourists.

It's not really big city like he's used to though and the crime rate is about a tenth of where he's at (not that he's had any issues). I think he'd be more turned off by quaint and small. He likes lots of choices in dining and groceries.

[TheOtherMe]

There are a lot more choices than there used to be.  

Fort Collins is not quaint, IMO.  In any way.  Like lots of cities, they have tried several times to make their downtown the place to be.  The last time I was in Fort Collins it was to attend a show at an art gallery.  That didn't exist when I lived there.  

I bowled when I lived there and they finally passed a tax to get a public indoor pool, which I never got to use because I moved.

In both Boulder and Fort Collins, I spent a lot of time doing things at the University.  Not just sports.  I like to go to lots of the events at the University.

[Pink Cashmere]

Jul 16, 2024 14:44:13 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jul 16, 2024 13:23:27 GMT -5 giramomma said:

What's the vibe at your office?

The new place I applied at. They want it straight and honest. During my first and second interview, I had 1-2 questions on skills, and the rest (I would say 10-12 questions) were all getting at whether or not I had integrity, if I was a thoughtful person.

In my second interview, that asked me to clarify what I meant by advancing (whether it was in the unit I was hired into, or broader, within the different arm of the University that I'm moving to-which would mean leaving the unit). I answered honestly. I no nothing about the different arm I'm moving to, or the unit. I told them I know what career growth doesn't look like, explained that, and said..everything else I'm open to.

I wouldn't worry about the pay so much. Unless your DS has a long list of co-curricular activities and/or soft skills (like project management) that would set him apart above other peers. 

And it's also a contract job. There has to be language in there if the employee breaks the contract. I'd just ask what that language is for clarification. I'd couch it as "I've never had a contract job before. I am seeking clarification." Then you avoid the issue all together.

See, I wouldn't even know how to answer that question.  Office vibe?  I dunno.  Everyone shows up and does their job.  We're contract manufacturers with many customer teams so some accounts are more difficult than others and it's also constantly shifting as customers come and go. There's very little oversight in any department. I rarely see my boss at all. How we're doing is measured every quarter with all the various metrics. Basically if we get the widgets out the door on time and the customers are happy with the quality, we are golden.

But, turns out he probably isn't getting the job after all as they must have suspected he was a flight risk after their interview. It was a contract to hire on after the freeze is over. At the end they asked him if he was truly more interested in manufacturing than design and if he would be committed to working there for long enough to not set them both back. The kid has zero ability to lie so he told them he preferred design and analytics. He didn't tell me how he answered the question about how long he'd be willing to stay, so I'm guessing he told the truth there too.

I'm torn on how I feel about this because I can only look at it through my viewpoint, which is you don't turn down a good job at a solid company in a LCOL area. He's not me though and has no intention of living a traditional, get a good job that you stay at forever, settle down, buy a house, get married and have 2.4 kids life.  I could see him renting with roommates forever, and spending all his money on travel instead of stuff.

 

My viewpoint is similar to yours. It has worked out for you, and in some ways, for me. But the difference is that in a job I have dreaded going to every day. It pays decent money for where I live, but the other side is that I have always spent at least more than a 3rd of my day, being somewhere I’d rather not be, doing things I’d rather not do. And the nature of my job means that it takes a toll on my body and my physical health, not to mention that it has negatively affected my mental health more often than not. I understand that it has always been my choice to not find another job, I own that.

My point is that young adults around your son’s ages, aren’t as willing to suck things up just to make a living, as many people of the generations before them were. The world has changed, and a lot of young people your son’s age, are willing to put in the work to be able to be qualified for the careers they are interested in, like he’s done and is willing to continue to do, but they aren’t really interested in just accepting whatever crumbs a potential employer is willing to give them, if they can avoid it.

I’m not mad at them about that, because employers changed the game before employees and potential employees started seeing things differently.

So my advice would be for your son to try to keep the local job as an ace in his pocket and not burn that bridge, if he didn’t already during his interview, since he has the luxury of not needing to take whatever job he can get at this moment, just in case his other plans don’t work out. If he didn’t say anything too crazy during the interview, if he ever needs to reapply for a position because other things didn’t work out, it would be good if that employer can be his plan B, C or D. 

I understand that it is difficult for you to see things from a different viewpoint than yours, but I also understand how and why your son doesn’t think the same way. This is not the same world that it was when you and I were making the decisions he is faced with today. I am just encouraging you to give him a bit of grace to figure things out for himself….. within reason, since he is clearly not a slacker, and just try to coach him on not burning any bridges he might possibly need to revisit in the future. 

[finnime]

I agree with the not burning bridges advice. Your DS has an ace in hand in being young and inexperienced. Companies won't expect him to offer a line of BS.

In regards to the original question, IME it is common to receive another job offer soon after starting a new job. After all, the job seeker was just applying for jobs. It isn't a terrible thing to leave soon after you've started for something better. It is explicable. And the first company won't have invested a great deal in you early on, so they have not much to lose.

[giramomma]

Jul 16, 2024 14:44:13 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I'm torn on how I feel about this because I can only look at it through my viewpoint, which is you don't turn down a good job at a solid company in a LCOL area. He's not me though and has no intention of living a traditional, get a good job that you stay at forever, settle down, buy a house, get married and have 2.4 kids life.  I could see him renting with roommates forever, and spending all his money on travel instead of stuff.

 

It has to be a good fit though.

It takes so much resources to train a person. it's expensive. Companies want a return on their investment.

I would never suggest lying and being miserable at a job.  

And, you also have to be flexible enough to take a job that's good enough, rather than one that is perfect.

He wants to do design and analytics. Can he do some Coursera Data analytics courses? It shows he's doing *something* if he's not working. 

We know a gap in work history is a thing, and it could become a liability. That's what I'd try to talk to your son about, if he were my son. Right. Like, he's not doing elder care, a SAHP, or backpacking across Europe. 

My husband didn't get on the bandwagon with being job ready after he left for college. It really has haunted him. Don't get me wrong, it turned out OK, even if it isn't what we planned. But, part of it turning out OK is because he partnered up with me. And I'd never suggest to my kids that partnering with someone is the way to make things OK.

I know your son will spend his taxable now. I would have a conversation about maybe not spending it down all right away. Even if he doesn't want a house. Does he want to work hard or hardly work in his 60s? Even figuring that out, will get him on a path.

My teaching mentor. She had means. Spent all of it. Now, i think she had to work because it gave her purpose. So, she is almost 90, and I'm betting she's still working. (She was still working at 85/86). She also prioritized the now over the future. She does have a teacher's pension, that, plus SS hasn't been enough for her. She's never wanted to do the golden girl thing, or live in a studio apartment.

I know I went the other way, too much. I prioritized the long term way too much. But, the good news is that is easily fixable, because we do have the resources. She doesn't have the resources to fix prioritizing the now over the future, her only option is working.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jul 17, 2024 10:08:47 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Jul 16, 2024 14:44:13 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I'm torn on how I feel about this because I can only look at it through my viewpoint, which is you don't turn down a good job at a solid company in a LCOL area. He's not me though and has no intention of living a traditional, get a good job that you stay at forever, settle down, buy a house, get married and have 2.4 kids life.  I could see him renting with roommates forever, and spending all his money on travel instead of stuff.

 

He wants to do design and analytics. Can he do some Coursera Data analytics courses? It shows he's doing *something* if he's not working. 

Meh. The interviewer gave him an out and he ran with it, I know damn well he'd jump on a Process or Product engineering job in CO if he was offered one even if it wasn't what he ultimately wanted, especially if it was with an aerospace company.  Electronics...product engineering...staying near home.  Three strikes in his head.

Pretty soon he's going to be working a McJob and living near home wishing he took the $30/hour engineering position instead. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jul 16, 2024 14:44:13 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jul 16, 2024 13:23:27 GMT -5 giramomma said:

What's the vibe at your office?

The new place I applied at. They want it straight and honest. During my first and second interview, I had 1-2 questions on skills, and the rest (I would say 10-12 questions) were all getting at whether or not I had integrity, if I was a thoughtful person.

In my second interview, that asked me to clarify what I meant by advancing (whether it was in the unit I was hired into, or broader, within the different arm of the University that I'm moving to-which would mean leaving the unit). I answered honestly. I no nothing about the different arm I'm moving to, or the unit. I told them I know what career growth doesn't look like, explained that, and said..everything else I'm open to.

I wouldn't worry about the pay so much. Unless your DS has a long list of co-curricular activities and/or soft skills (like project management) that would set him apart above other peers. 

And it's also a contract job. There has to be language in there if the employee breaks the contract. I'd just ask what that language is for clarification. I'd couch it as "I've never had a contract job before. I am seeking clarification." Then you avoid the issue all together.

See, I wouldn't even know how to answer that question.  Office vibe?  I dunno.  Everyone shows up and does their job.  We're contract manufacturers with many customer teams so some accounts are more difficult than others and it's also constantly shifting as customers come and go. There's very little oversight in any department. I rarely see my boss at all. How we're doing is measured every quarter with all the various metrics. Basically if we get the widgets out the door on time and the customers are happy with the quality, we are golden.

But, turns out he probably isn't getting the job after all as they must have suspected he was a flight risk after their interview. It was a contract to hire on after the freeze is over. At the end they asked him if he was truly more interested in manufacturing than design and if he would be committed to working there for long enough to not set them both back. The kid has zero ability to lie so he told them he preferred design and analytics. He didn't tell me how he answered the question about how long he'd be willing to stay, so I'm guessing he told the truth there too.

I'm torn on how I feel about this because I can only look at it through my viewpoint, which is you don't turn down a good job at a solid company in a LCOL area. He's not me though and has no intention of living a traditional, get a good job that you stay at forever, settle down, buy a house, get married and have 2.4 kids life.  I could see him renting with roommates forever, and spending all his money on travel instead of stuff.

 

Eh I don't think it was a bad thing to be honest in this instance.  Did they even give him a timeline as to when the hiring freeze will be over?  It almost sounds like they are dangling "Well we'll hire you .. someday" to get people to agree to be contract workers and are especially hoping it will appeal to new graduates who probably want a job any job right now because most aren't in your son's position to be able to afford not to.

And how long is "long enough" to not set them back?   I'm sorry but when you hire me it is a risk you take that I may find a different opportunity just as it is a risk that I take the job and you decide to do lay offs a month after.  You are not owed anymore loyalty than you give to me.  And shouldn't you have processes in place that if I did find another position you aren't "set back" should I leave?

Granted I'm getting this third hand from you but based on what you've written I would not have taken the job either if I had the means to be comfortable without it.   I get the view that you don't turn down a "good job" because I was raised the same way but more and more I am realizing how badly that has shot me in the foot in terms of career development.   "Good job" anymore is a pretty fucking low bar anymore and I've learned that the hard way too.

If he burned a bridge by being honest that this job is not a good fit and passing on it then it's a sign that he made the right decision.  Job offers are supposed to be a business decision that ends up benefiting BOTH parties with both parties having the right to decide to nope out.  If a company is going to hold that against you to me it's a sign it's not a company that is interested in growth and development of their employees.  They want a body and they want a body they can keep in that position indefinitely who will be grateful for what they have been given.

Learned that now the hard way too.

I think he's better off at the moment waiting to see if other offers pan out.  IMO if in 3-6 months he doesn't get any bites that would be the time to start considering any bite just to get his foot in the door while continuing to look.  It took me 6 months to find my first full time career job and that was back in 2006 when things REALLY sucked.  In the meantime there are dozens of ways for him to learn skills nowadays thanks to the internet so it doesn't look like he wasn't doing anything at all while applying.

[Opti]

Jul 17, 2024 10:38:00 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jul 17, 2024 10:08:47 GMT -5 giramomma said:

He wants to do design and analytics. Can he do some Coursera Data analytics courses? It shows he's doing *something* if he's not working. 

Meh. The interviewer gave him an out and he ran with it, I know damn well he'd jump on a Process or Product engineering job in CO if he was offered one even if it wasn't what he ultimately wanted, especially if it was with an aerospace company.  Electronics...product engineering...staying near home.  Three strikes in his head.

Pretty soon he's going to be working a McJob and living near home wishing he took the $30/hour engineering position instead. 

Maybe not. Aerospace is big in the military and Putin is still attacking Ukraine. There might be some jobs for new hires out of school that want to make a difference. How does he feel about designing military hardware?

[obelisk]

Jul 17, 2024 10:38:00 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jul 17, 2024 10:08:47 GMT -5 giramomma said:

He wants to do design and analytics. Can he do some Coursera Data analytics courses? It shows he's doing *something* if he's not working. 

Meh. The interviewer gave him an out and he ran with it, I know damn well he'd jump on a Process or Product engineering job in CO if he was offered one even if it wasn't what he ultimately wanted, especially if it was with an aerospace company.  Electronics...product engineering...staying near home.  Three strikes in his head.

Pretty soon he's going to be working a McJob and living near home wishing he took the $30/hour engineering position instead. 

My company is in the process of looking for a mechanical engineer and we have no issues with someone with a gap between graduating and finding employment in a desired field. The main question we ask ourselves in the hiring committee is how well the person is going to fit within our team.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

minnesotapaintlady

oh I missed this whole saga! 
For advice on application - he should check out askamanager.com for info. she has a book out to on how to get hired.

Has he moved to CO yet? If he has 3 month living expenses saved, he should likely just go for it and start his life as he wants it. He is young enough to crash and burn 2-3 times over the next 10 years and still get more chances. He should do it!

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jul 31, 2024 12:24:22 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

minnesotapaintlady

oh I missed this whole saga! 
For advice on application - he should check out askamanager.com for info. she has a book out to on how to get hired.

Has he moved to CO yet? If he has 3 month living expenses saved, he should likely just go for it and start his life as he wants it. He is young enough to crash and burn 2-3 times over the next 10 years and still get more chances. He should do it!

He has not. After talking with him about it more and learning more about the roommate situation I've convinced him to hold off. He still has to get moved out of his apartment in Minneapolis yet anyhow and they have a lot of crap to move/sell in the next few weeks.

After a week at OshKosh he's all pumped to get his pilot's license again, so started the classes for the written exam.  I offered to pay for it when he was a kid, but he never got on the ball and enrolled in anything.  Now he can pay for it himself.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Very worried about my job, peeps! The new manager situation isn't really working out for me. He put someone else in a position to do a large project that was arguably outside of their skillset (although maybe it shouldn't have been given their title, and I know the person was previously on a pip) and when they didn't do a good job on the project, was let go. I don't necessarily disagree with that decision as the person had received several undeserved promotions while doing very little put pushing work onto coworkers. 

However, now I am looking at certain things and wondering if I am being given tasks to deliberately assess whether newboss wants to keep me in my current position? I have wondered if he had a former colleague he wanted in my place. And after years of being somewhat overworked and underrewarded - but highly valued by my bosses, this hits me rather hard. I am also in a life situation with my mother's health issues and working to clear her home and sell it to pay for her care, where it is really time for the company to forgive a lack of focus on my part - but newboss doesn't appreciate that piece of things or know the history of how much I have done for the org. I'm not sure if I have enough to go on for a FMLA as a lot of what I am doing is literally cleaning house and she is in a facility for care, although I have taken her to 3 dr. appts in the past month or so with 1 or more in the next month.

I am trying to make my peace with if I get fired. I'm not in a good financial position in terms of debts and monthly payments, but I have crossed the magical 59.5 years of age and have significant retirement funds that I can now access. My worry is that my big pile of money would evaporate very quickly given my financial obligations (although maybe some cost cutting and being able to do more meal planning, etc. would get that in line). But if I do lose this job I will make a go of it with my retirement money and side biz rather than seek out another FT job immediately. I would give it a year or two to assess what I can do with my budget, and how the market performs, etc.

I am worried I will pull out my "quit in a huff" card at difficult junctures or ongoing criticism. But if shtf in earnest for this job, I really need to squeeze every last dollar I can out of it! I doubt I would be fired without being put on a PIP first, so I would have that warning. But if I get another big dose of constructive criticism "feedback" on a day the stock market is sailing away I'm not sure I can hang on! 

I keep thinking every day is tiny victory! One less day to fund from accounts before social security kicks in, one more day of interest/investment gains, one more day of a paycheck.

Any adivce or words of wisdom?

[debthaven]

I’m sorry to hear this Rukh O'Rorke, and I hope your worries won’t come to pass.

I would do what I’ve suggested before … break down your debts/SLs and try to pay a few of them off, with bonuses, extra income from Rukh Inc, whatever.

Have you ever even looked at the breakdown of your SLs? You don’t need to post it, but you really should know the breakdown.

Best of luck to you, as always!

PS It does NOT sound like quitting « in a huff » would be at all beneficial to you. On the contrary, instead of saving so much you need to borrow to make your monthly payments, you should hang on and pay Stuff off.

[raeoflyte]

Where did your last bosses end up? I'd call them to catch up. You don't have to bad mouth new boss to float the idea of low key open to new opportunities.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Aug 1, 2024 15:11:49 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Where did your last bosses end up? I'd call them to catch up. You don't have to bad mouth new boss to float the idea of low key open to new opportunities.

last one is now grand boss (and chose newboss over me for this position!), previous to that is now a good friend to grandboss in an unrelated organization (nothing for me there anyway), before that is leading another dept at current place. 4th one out I had trouble with, 5th and 6th retired. Not a lot to lean in to.

But - I am not too interested in taking on a new FT position right now anyway. If I get the ax will take a year off and reassess. The burntout is very real and If I had a bit more settled financial situation, I might just retire today.  Might be difficult looking for a new job at 60/61 if my funding doesn't do it, but I have enough money for some options at this point in life.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Aug 1, 2024 15:11:15 GMT -5 debthaven said:

I’m sorry to hear this Rukh O'Rorke , and I hope your worries won’t come to pass.

I would do what I’ve suggested before … break down your debts/SLs and try to pay a few of them off, with bonuses, extra income from Rukh Inc, whatever.

Have you ever even looked at the breakdown of your SLs? You don’t need to post it, but you really should know the breakdown.

Best of luck to you, as always!

PS It does NOT sound like quitting « in a huff » would be at all beneficial to you. On the contrary, instead of saving so much you need to borrow to make your monthly payments, you should hang on and pay Stuff off.

I hope it passes too! I may just not appreciate newboss' management style, and my position is actually quite safe. As I said, will try to ride it out.

Also, newboss is at the 5 month mark, and I haven't had a boss at this place last longer than 14-16 months!! So there is that! I can try to focus on outlasting them!

I do keep track of the SLs, and I do plan to add car note to racing at some point. 

most time in next month is going to spent clearing my mother's house and then the sale. Bro and SIL doing equal if not more work. but there is a lot!! Found a cache of first and very early edition books in the basement. putting them up on ebay. worth 20-1/200 each. Have one that first edition is valued at over 1k, but this is the second/follwoing year. Not sure if that will have much. So doing more unique stuff on ebay and getting most of the stuff for estate sale, then sell the house.

Then I'll think about the racing.  But also likely why I am less tolerant/suspicious. Last weekend was 10 hour days at my moms house, smelly musty basement sweaty work and then bringing stuff to my house and feeling very overwhelmed by everything. Lots of upcoming work stuff and hard to take any time off right now. But I'll put in a sick day for my moms next dr. appt and then look for some other time off to escape the scrutiny!!

[raeoflyte]

Aug 1, 2024 16:02:48 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Aug 1, 2024 15:11:49 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Where did your last bosses end up? I'd call them to catch up. You don't have to bad mouth new boss to float the idea of low key open to new opportunities.

last one is now grand boss (and chose newboss over me for this position!), previous to that is now a good friend to grandboss in an unrelated organization (nothing for me there anyway), before that is leading another dept at current place. 4th one out I had trouble with, 5th and 6th retired. Not a lot to lean in to.

But - I am not too interested in taking on a new FT position right now anyway. If I get the ax will take a year off and reassess. The burntout is very real and If I had a bit more settled financial situation, I might just retire today.  Might be difficult looking for a new job at 60/61 if my funding doesn't do it, but I have enough money for some options at this point in life.

I'm guessing your 50-70% effort is still better than most peoples 80-90%. I like the idea of outlasting the current boss.

[finnime]

Being let go sucks. Going because you choose to is a good thing. I hope you have this job as long as you want it, Rukh O'Rorke, and that your boss shapes up and recognizes what you provide.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Thanks all, looks like stiffling any emotional job dissatisfaction and keeping on keeping on is the call for today!

SP500 down over 2.5% in just an hour or so into the market and likely to continue to dropping for a bit at least. Not the greatest financial end to the week! I am down more than the indexes today and for the month. Due to my situation I took a little stock off the table yesterday, to increase cash in retiremnt account, so that is decision seems solid in light of today! Not a super big number, just 75kish

so nose to the grindstone it is! It'll be another grueling weekend clearing out mom's house again but then I think things will be winding down there in a week or two and can start to focus on my own concerns again.

Thanks again for being there, y'all virtual friends! Appreciate it 

[raeoflyte]

I got a job offer today from my old boss. Same people I worked with at the last company (not the team, but same branch).

Base income is similar to what I'm making since insurance would be a lot cheaper.

It really comes down to am I willing to give up my business, the possibility of making as much money as I want, and the alleged freedom.

[giramomma]

There is something to be said for working for the man.

It's nice to also not work for the man.