The Job Hunt Thread

[Opti]

Ava, great news. I will ask happier Qs later, but can you explain or elaborate on the below when you have time?

New employer is a different set up. It's a mutual entity. The members are the owners. It's a similar set up to a credit union.

The company I hired into in Mid May was a privately owned small regional thing. They even still had pensions. Well, in July about two months after I started, I found out they were planning a merger with a similar sized regional ... and we became a stock bank.  

So at least two of the reasons I took this job that paid less than I needed, was stability (privately owned) and the pension. Actually all three I suppose. The receptionist who retired at 85 with what I was told was a good pension. I did not buy any stock at the initial offering for various reasons including I really didn't have any money I wanted to potentially lose.

Short version, the stock was overpriced by about 20% going by where it bounced down to ... and I have no idea when it might hit the offer price. Maybe if Biden gets elected and there are several fed rate cuts over time? IDK. 

[Opti]

Jul 4, 2024 8:46:13 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

So here's something interesting with my temp job. I knew there'd be a dollar for dollar offset between my earnings and my pension. So basically the financial benefit is what I earn beyond my monthly pension. I expected that.  What I didn't expect is that I am automatically enrolled in the 401K.  So now, while taking RMDs from the 401K, I am also putting money back into it.  I am not unhappy about that. 

And although I'm cautious with my investments in that 401K, it has grown more than enough to cover the RMDs. Not unhappy about that either.

I wish I liked going back to work more than I do, though.  It's not the work or the working conditions.  It's that I don't have the free time I used to have. I like my unscheduled days.  After 3.5 years of retirement, I'd gotten used to it. However, I do like the $$$.

Can you put 0% of your own money towards the 401K?  Since I ended up taking a position at the new employer for a $1/hr. less than I needed, I took the 0% to retirement option so I had a better shot at paying my bills.

[bean29]

Jul 15, 2024 9:45:49 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jul 4, 2024 8:46:13 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

So here's something interesting with my temp job. I knew there'd be a dollar for dollar offset between my earnings and my pension. So basically the financial benefit is what I earn beyond my monthly pension. I expected that.  What I didn't expect is that I am automatically enrolled in the 401K.  So now, while taking RMDs from the 401K, I am also putting money back into it.  I am not unhappy about that. 

And although I'm cautious with my investments in that 401K, it has grown more than enough to cover the RMDs. Not unhappy about that either.

I wish I liked going back to work more than I do, though.  It's not the work or the working conditions.  It's that I don't have the free time I used to have. I like my unscheduled days.  After 3.5 years of retirement, I'd gotten used to it. However, I do like the $$$.

Can you put 0% of your own money towards the 401K?  Since I ended up taking a position at the new employer for a $1/hr. less than I needed, I took the 0% to retirement option so I had a better shot at paying my bills.

Before you take a 0% option, ask if you can withdraw your contribution as soon as it is deposited.  I know one of our employees was able to do that, but she was fully vested (and we have a safe harbor plan). ETA. reading backwards, I see your real issue is possible IRMA surcharges.  I agree that you should ask a professional for guidance.  

[minnesotapaintlady]

This question is for my kid.  He has been applying the past few weeks with no real bites yet until this week...at my company where he interned last year...only he'd be working in another city.  He has an interview this afternoon and frankly will probably get the job.  The issue is, he doesn't REALLY want to work here.  He is set on moving to CO and working in an aerospace industry.  This job is a contract position, has no benefits (that he knows of) and only 5 days of vacation a year.  We're in a hiring freeze, so I imagine this is how they're getting around it.  It also doesn't pay great for engineering (they're offering him $30/hour).

So, how does he handle this at the interview?  Does he just pretend this is where he wants to work forever or warn them he's looking for a permanent job?  Is it uncool to walk away a month later if one of the CO jobs comes through (he applied to 15 places out there just yesterday).

[Opti]

Jul 16, 2024 6:44:49 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

This question is for my kid.  He has been applying the past few weeks with no real bites yet until this week...at my company where he interned last year...only he'd be working in another city.  He has an interview this afternoon and frankly will probably get the job.  The issue is, he doesn't REALLY want to work here.  He is set on moving to CO and working in an aerospace industry.  This job is a contract position, has no benefits (that he knows of) and only 5 days of vacation a year.  We're in a hiring freeze, so I imagine this is how they're getting around it.  It also doesn't pay great for engineering (they're offering him $30/hour).

So, how does he handle this at the interview?  Does he just pretend this is where he wants to work forever or warn them he's looking for a permanent job?  Is it uncool to walk away a month later if one of the CO jobs comes through (he applied to 15 places out there just yesterday).

Depends on how much he wants any job for the summer. Realize I am looking at this as a degreed engineer making $17/hr. in HCOL CNJ. And a survivor of much job crap.

I don't know what current conventions are true for CO and MN. For me personally, it would depend on how likely I thought any of the jobs would drop. Is it great to walk away after a month, generally no. But I have found for me that I can tell within month one to month three whether I made a horrible mistake or whether I have a shot at the job working out. 

Me myself would say nothing, but if the gut said I really don't want the job in front of me, go to the interview and see what happens. At the very least you get interview experience. 

[minnesotapaintlady]

He has the luxury of being able to afford to not take any job until something he really wants comes along, but I'm not sure if doing nothing is in his best interest.  You know, with how they always say it's easier to get a job if you already have one kind of thing.  He has an appointment with the career services guy at the school a couple hours before his interview today, so I told him to ask him what he should do.

[saveinla]

No need to say anything given the pay and benefits. I am sure the company is expecting people to leave.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jul 16, 2024 6:44:49 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

This question is for my kid.  He has been applying the past few weeks with no real bites yet until this week...at my company where he interned last year...only he'd be working in another city.  He has an interview this afternoon and frankly will probably get the job.  The issue is, he doesn't REALLY want to work here.  He is set on moving to CO and working in an aerospace industry.  This job is a contract position, has no benefits (that he knows of) and only 5 days of vacation a year.  We're in a hiring freeze, so I imagine this is how they're getting around it.  It also doesn't pay great for engineering (they're offering him $30/hour).

So, how does he handle this at the interview?  Does he just pretend this is where he wants to work forever or warn them he's looking for a permanent job?  Is it uncool to walk away a month later if one of the CO jobs comes through (he applied to 15 places out there just yesterday).

You do the same song and dance we all do when applying for jobs.  Does anyone REALLY believe that my dream job is doing paperwork day in and day out and that if I won the lottery I wouldn't be out of here faster than the speed of light?  Probably not.

Just like it is apparently still taboo to say you work to live/for money.

Never EVER tell them you are holding out for something better.  Pretend it's the greatest job ever and it's your dream to work it.  It takes practice but eventually he'll generate a BS script that he can follow when asked "Why do you want to work here?" that will make hiring managers happy.

I don't know why we have to play stupid mind games when trying to get a job but we do. 

I'd take it because he cannot be confident that anything will come through and it does bring in money and gives him something to put on his resume.

I personally do not consider it bad form if he were to leave in a month.  I am assuming you live in a right to work state?  It works both ways.  The company can drop you on a dime and you can leave on a dime.  If he isn't interested in a full time career there I wouldn't worry too much about it.   They are not owed for hiring him anymore than they wouldn't drop him like a hot potato if it saves them a dime.

Especially for a contract position.  I'd like to think most companies understand that if you get offered something permeant it's a no brainer you're going to take it and you're likely still looking while taking the contract job.

[Opti]

I may delete this or start a thread elsewhere because this is YM and not EE.

I am fighting for economic survival at the moment, lowest cash flow possibly ever in the last twenty years. I'm trying to save my job, hopefully leap to a better one within this regional company and get the Dad IRA and other estate stuff addressed in a timely manner. I lost at least a week as this unrelenting sun and heat indexes in the 100s to 107 for two or more weeks are really doing a number on my health. 

And because I am not sleeping I am looking to find important people in my past and present and get them connected up to my LinkedIn account. It hurts my head and my soul to find things that other people I knew in my college career at Purdue and in telephony did cool things like sign/write a letter to Congress in 2010 



I could have signed too as a private citizen even if my stuff wasn't as cool as most of those who did sign the letter. Opti sad.

[minnesotapaintlady]

I made the mistake of telling him last night maybe he should just go out to CO and start hunting from there (he has housing lined up with friends already), so now that seed is planted and I think he just wants to go.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jul 16, 2024 8:09:37 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I made the mistake of telling him last night maybe he should just go out to CO and start hunting from there (he has housing lined up with friends already), so now that seed is planted and I think he just wants to go.

If he has housing lined up that's half the battle out in Colorado.  He is aware though it is crazy stupid expensive out there right?  Especially in Colorado Springs.

But if he's going to do it now is the time he's young and has nothing tying him down.

[Opti]

Jul 16, 2024 8:09:37 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I made the mistake of telling him last night maybe he should just go out to CO and start hunting from there (he has housing lined up with friends already), so now that seed is planted and I think he just wants to go.

Two former engineering classmates are in CO right now. But not as engineers. She also has a therapy degree and finally is using it out there for an undetermined it of time. None of us have worked in engineering for roughly two decades. He however did teach math for a while, after his company disappeared. Social benefits in IN can be crap because of its redness, and she recently lost that pay so ... CO.

Is he doing Aerospace out of Univ of CO? I ask only as that has a Purdue connection. A professor I was a TA for relocated out there after the divorce. Curious though, why CO and not Purdue with that type of degree?

[Opti]

Jul 16, 2024 8:20:11 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jul 16, 2024 8:09:37 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I made the mistake of telling him last night maybe he should just go out to CO and start hunting from there (he has housing lined up with friends already), so now that seed is planted and I think he just wants to go.

If he has housing lined up that's half the battle out in Colorado.  He is aware though it is crazy stupid expensive out there right?  Especially in Colorado Springs.

But if he's going to do it now is the time he's young and has nothing tying him down.

So maybe take the job here and deal with it unless jobs there pan out? Applying to 15 jobs just means you applied to 15 jobs. In my recent experience. Depending on how many other people are applying, you can make an educated guess if you have a chance at all. Some job postings aren't for real actual jobs, and some might be ghost jobs in that company X likes to have interns, do it every year but won't decide until people apply whether they can afford one. Or like Tristate intern rules even pay them. 

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jul 16, 2024 8:20:11 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jul 16, 2024 8:09:37 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I made the mistake of telling him last night maybe he should just go out to CO and start hunting from there (he has housing lined up with friends already), so now that seed is planted and I think he just wants to go.

If he has housing lined up that's half the battle out in Colorado.  He is aware though it is crazy stupid expensive out there right?  Especially in Colorado Springs.

But if he's going to do it now is the time he's young and has nothing tying him down.

Fort Collins, and the COL calculators put it about the same as here...unless you're buying a house.  Then it's something nuts like 50% more, but rent is supposedly less. They have three in a house at $600 each, so it would be less than $500 if he joined.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jul 16, 2024 8:20:21 GMT -5 Opti said:

Is he doing Aerospace out of Univ of CO? I ask only as that has a Purdue connection. A professor I was a TA for relocated out there after the divorce. Curious though, why CO and not Purdue with that type of degree?

He's already graduated.  He's not looking for a school.

[cyanne]

When my son graduated from the U of MN (7 years ago and with an economics degree), he applied for over 70 jobs. He did get a couple of offers he turned down because he held out for higher pay. The offer he turned down in the high 30s was significantly lower than the offer he took starting at 67,000. I say if your son has the means to wait, he may want to do so.

Holding out worked well for him. YMMV

[raeoflyte]

The only big gotcha is that he could/maybe likely will burn the bridge with the company if he takes the job and leaves after a month. And since that is a good employer close to home that he might want to return to in the future I'd think twice about that.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jul 16, 2024 8:36:14 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

The only big gotcha is that he could/maybe likely will burn the bridge with the company if he takes the job and leaves after a month. And since that is a good employer close to home that he might want to return to in the future I'd think twice about that.

That's what I worry about too, but I don't know if I should encourage him to just stick with the job for a year (if it's offered), or turn the offer down. 

tbh, I don't see him ever wanting to settle around here anyhow. He has way too much wanderlust and while there's lot's of family around here, he's never been one to lean on them much.  He'd rather be with his friends and he doesn't really have a friend group here either.

But, you never know.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 16, 2024 6:44:49 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

This question is for my kid.  He has been applying the past few weeks with no real bites yet until this week...at my company where he interned last year...only he'd be working in another city.  He has an interview this afternoon and frankly will probably get the job.  The issue is, he doesn't REALLY want to work here.  He is set on moving to CO and working in an aerospace industry.  This job is a contract position, has no benefits (that he knows of) and only 5 days of vacation a year.  We're in a hiring freeze, so I imagine this is how they're getting around it.  It also doesn't pay great for engineering (they're offering him $30/hour).

So, how does he handle this at the interview?  Does he just pretend this is where he wants to work forever or warn them he's looking for a permanent job?  Is it uncool to walk away a month later if one of the CO jobs comes through (he applied to 15 places out there just yesterday).

If this is a contract position, there is no expectation of permanence from either side……or at least how it works for TD.  Right now, he is deliberately looking for these contracts to work between vacations.  

If he is going through a secondary company that is providing skilled contracting help, his benefits depend on the company that they are going through.  TD has worked through 2, one had phenomenal benefits (free insurance for me, very cheap COBRA at the end) and the other was not so much.  

[TheOtherMe]

Fort Collins is no longer even a medium cost of live area.  Every area along the front range is a HCOL area.  

He's been living in the Cities, so he won't find Fort Collins as shocking as I do.  It was this quiet smaller city when I lived there.  Now it's one huge city from Fort Collins to Colorado Springs.  

Weather is much better in Fort Collins than in the Midwest but otherwise it's one big huge city.  The mountains are there but so are the tourists.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jul 16, 2024 9:02:02 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Jul 16, 2024 6:44:49 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

This question is for my kid.  He has been applying the past few weeks with no real bites yet until this week...at my company where he interned last year...only he'd be working in another city.  He has an interview this afternoon and frankly will probably get the job.  The issue is, he doesn't REALLY want to work here.  He is set on moving to CO and working in an aerospace industry.  This job is a contract position, has no benefits (that he knows of) and only 5 days of vacation a year.  We're in a hiring freeze, so I imagine this is how they're getting around it.  It also doesn't pay great for engineering (they're offering him $30/hour).

So, how does he handle this at the interview?  Does he just pretend this is where he wants to work forever or warn them he's looking for a permanent job?  Is it uncool to walk away a month later if one of the CO jobs comes through (he applied to 15 places out there just yesterday).

If this is a contract position, there is no expectation of permanence from either side……or at least how it works for TD.  Right now, he is deliberately looking for these contracts to work between vacations.  

If he is going through a secondary company that is providing skilled contracting help, his benefits depend on the company that they are going through.  TD has worked through 2, one had phenomenal benefits (free insurance for me, very cheap COBRA at the end) and the other was not so much.  

I told him to ask a lot of questions about this as he doesn't seem to know.  A headhunter submitted his application and my company is interviewing him, so I'm guessing they're doing the contracting?  He knows the wage and that he would get 5 days of vacation. That's about it.

[minnesotapaintlady]

I hate not being able to help with stuff like this.  I've applied for like 3 jobs and it was long before the whole online universe of job hunting.  I keep imploring he spend time with career services because any advice I'm going to be seriously outdated.

[Peace77]

How long is the contract for?

The problem I see is that 15 applications don’t equal 15 interviews.  He may only get a few interviews and not get hired by any of them.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jul 16, 2024 9:06:10 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Fort Collins is no longer even a medium cost of live area.  Every area along the front range is a HCOL area.  

He's been living in the Cities, so he won't find Fort Collins as shocking as I do.  It was this quiet smaller city when I lived there.  Now it's one huge city from Fort Collins to Colorado Springs.  

Weather is much better in Fort Collins than in the Midwest but otherwise it's one big huge city.  The mountains are there but so are the tourists.

My brother referred to Fort Collins as the Council Bluffs of Colorado.  I have no idea how accurate that is but it made me laugh. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jul 16, 2024 9:36:20 GMT -5 Peace77 said:

How long is the contract for?

The problem I see is that 15 applications don’t equal 15 interviews.  He may only get a few interviews and not get hired by any of them.

If the contact is only for a year I highly doubt they'd hold it against him if he left for a better position and if they do I'd question working there in the future.  Anyone with half a brain has to know nowadays if you are only under contract for a year that you're going to continue to look while under contract because you're going to need to have something lined up when/slightly before it ends.

I thought that was the whole point of the contract employee trend.  Employers get employees but don't actually have to hire employees.  Meanwhile I am supposed to have the "freedom and flexibility" to pursue my career goals as opposed to being tied down to one employer.

If an employer wants long term loyalty out of me actually hire me.

Hmm . .maybe this is why I get told I have a negative attitude? 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 16, 2024 9:39:50 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jul 16, 2024 9:36:20 GMT -5 Peace77 said:

How long is the contract for?

The problem I see is that 15 applications don’t equal 15 interviews.  He may only get a few interviews and not get hired by any of them.

If the contact is only for a year I highly doubt they'd hold it against him if he left for a better position and if they do I'd question working there in the future.  Anyone with half a brain has to know nowadays if you are only under contract for a year that you're going to continue to look while under contract because you're going to need to have something lined up when/slightly before it ends.

I thought that was the whole point of the contract employee trend.  Employers get employees but don't actually have to hire employees.  Meanwhile I am supposed to have the "freedom and flexibility" to pursue my career goals as opposed to being tied down to one employer.

If an employer wants long term loyalty out of me actually hire me.

Hmm . .maybe this is why I get told I have a negative attitude? 

From what I have seen, contracts in engineering are very fluid.  Since TD was not dependent upon income (he was only looking for insurance), when they had work, he had work.  When they didn’t, he didn’t work (but did continue with healthcare while still under contract).  There were some weeks he worked 60 hours, other weeks, 10.  In his case, his contract was open ended, as long as they had work, he had work.  

Contract employees fill a unique niche.  They provide skilled labor for a short term project that they need additional workers, but once the project is over, the work is done.  It’s not assumed that there is loyalty, because that’s not the premise, so when you look at it, you need to look at it in a very different way from an established employee.  In TD’s case, the only loyalty comes when his supervisor wants him, and only him to be contracted.  

Usually contract employees make a much higher rate.  The other engineers we socialize with have been retired multiple times, because one of the local engineering firms or refineries desperately need help, and as the field (at least locally) is so incestuous, they know who to call to get the job done (and are willing to pay 1.7-2x the go8ng rate for this type of experienced engineer).   I think that just about every engineer in this area has worked at every refinery and every consulting firm at one time.  As a result, they have a tremendous body of knowledge and experience, so many of these contract positions are by word of mouth.  If someone wants you, they tell you to submit your resume to XXX contracting firm and they’ll be in touch.  The contracting firm (not the business) does all the onboarding paperwork, and you get paid by the contracting firm.  

TD has worked for 2, both nationwide firms. VECA had the phenomenal benefits, but he’s currently ‘working’ for IT Network but hasn’t worked since we got home in May. Supposedly the consulting company he’s contracted with wants him this winter for a project in the pipeline.  

This is definitely a different beast from anything in my experience.  It throws all the things I ever learned about employment out the window.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jul 16, 2024 9:36:20 GMT -5 Peace77 said:

How long is the contract for?

The problem I see is that 15 applications don’t equal 15 interviews.  He may only get a few interviews and not get hired by any of them.

I'm not sure and neither is he.  I told him to make sure HE asked questions today too and had a notepad with him during the interview. 

He can afford to not have a job for quite a while...even living in CO.  I'm just not sure if that's a great idea or not.  At some point employers have to wonder why he doesn't have a job and shy away from him just because of that.

[jerseygirl]

I can mirror the engineering contract work described for TD. Pharma contracting works essentially the same way. I did this for 10 years. Pharmaceutical companies need lots of knowledgeable experienced people when putting together the NDAs for submitting a new drug to regulatory agencies like the FDA.
When I was a director, I kept a core group during the time a new drug was being tested. Then hired in experienced contract people for about a year doing the much expanded work needed to get approval. If a contract person left there were others I could bring in .

[minnesotapaintlady]

That's why I'm wondering if this is just the company bringing on people through a loophole during a hiring freeze until they have the green light to hire direct again (probably 2025) He doesn't really have experience beyond his internship here for a few months where he was just doing scut work so if they want some serious help they're going to have to spend quite a bit of time training him in.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

I would think his internship, although short, was like my co-op job in college. I was able to gain invaluable work knowledge to supplement my inclass EE subjects. I did work with a Phd Physicist and MSEE on a classified Navy project. Yes I knew I was lucky as some of my friends just got to xerox documents.