The Job Hunt Thread

[seriousthistime]

As a federal supervisor, I had to discipline a subordinate supervisor who treated his staff terribly.  I once caught him not only yelling at his assistant but doing it out in the open and disrupting the work of about 10 people in adjacent cubicles.  

Nobody should be subjected to that situation. 

I should mention that treating staff disrespectfully was only one of the things I had to discipline that supervisor for.  Not only is it difficult to terminate a federal employee (because much of the workforce is unionized) but in his position he had additional statutory job protections.  

[raeoflyte]

I asked in a fb group comprised of contract processors how they handle vacations and the overwhelming answer was we don't take vacations. I'm not surprised. It's common even with w2 employees in the industry but it's so unhealthy. 1 lady said she takes long weekends around Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years, but never anything else, and she has little kids. Btdt. No thank you.

2 people said they have someone who can cover them. 1 person said they stop taking files and then build their pipeline back up.

I have 2 people I'd like to work with or even hire if I was busy enough. But neither of them are on the contract side. I'm not sure how to find people who are so I could start making those connections and find people who we could cover for each other. I'm never going back to no vacations. This is really the deciding factor if this business works for me. I want it to work for me, but I need to figure this out.

[TheOtherMe]

Mar 4, 2024 14:35:21 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

As a federal supervisor, I had to discipline a subordinate supervisor who treated his staff terribly.  I once caught him not only yelling at his assistant but doing it out in the open and disrupting the work of about 10 people in adjacent cubicles.  

Nobody should be subjected to that situation. 

I should mention that treating staff disrespectfully was only one of the things I had to discipline that supervisor for.  Not only is it difficult to terminate a federal employee (because much of the workforce is unionized) but in his position he had additional statutory job protections.  

The union for Treasury couldn't do a lot except draw things out.  

I saw one person fired for not being able to do her job.  I did not agree with management on that at all.  The manager that started the process was told when it was finally over to never do that again as it cost over $1.5 million to fire her and it would have been less to pay her salary until retirement age.  He was a brand new manager when he started the process to terminate her.  He is still front line management because he did that.

The only federal employees I ever saw actually terminated were for lying on the background paperwork, filing false travel vouchers and failing to file a tax return.  

How does an IRS employee fail to file a tax return.  

All 3 of those were automatic terminations and the union would provide cursory representation.  They don't like spending their time on people like that.

I did a lot of on the job training of trainees during their first year of employment.  They can be terminated.  Everyone I recommended to actual management to not retain was not retained except for one person.  They had me do OJT for her a 2nd time and she didn't do any better.  She also lied.  I recommended she be terminated.  My boss, who was not allowed to see any of my write ups, was told I did not recommend her to be terminated.  So his boss lied to him and I couldn't show him my paperwork.  

What they did was off load her to another state when she got married as her husband was going to medical school.  Of course she requested a transfer back to Denver when he was finished and Denver had to take her.  Denver got what she deserved.  Last I heard, she was still there but had never been promoted.  

[Pink Cashmere]

Mar 4, 2024 14:35:21 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

As a federal supervisor, I had to discipline a subordinate supervisor who treated his staff terribly.  I once caught him not only yelling at his assistant but doing it out in the open and disrupting the work of about 10 people in adjacent cubicles.  

Nobody should be subjected to that situation. 

I should mention that treating staff disrespectfully was only one of the things I had to discipline that supervisor for.  Not only is it difficult to terminate a federal employee (because much of the workforce is unionized) but in his position he had additional statutory job protections.  

Years ago, the plant manager we had at the time, cussed the top manager of the shift out on the workroom floor. I was appalled that that happened right in front of me. 

I lost respect for both of them that day. The plant manager for cussing out one of his managers where I could see and hear it, and the manager for just nodding his head and saying “yes sir”, “yes sir”. Under no circumstances should that have taken place on the workroom floor, with me and my coworkers seeing and hearing it.

That same plant manager ended up in a physical fight with another manager that was only one step below him. Everybody says they were fighting over a woman, even though both of them were married. I believe that’s true, but I can’t say it’s fact that that was the real reason they had a physical altercation. 

So even less respect from me for that plant manager, and loss of respect for yet another manager.

[seriousthistime]

That's appalling, Pink Cashmere.  There is simply no excuse for something like that.  

When I stepped in to stop the supervisor from yelling, everyone in the cubicles could see I was doing it.  It was only later that I realized my stopping the verbal abuse probably sent a message to all that such disrespect would not be tolerated. And that's a good thing in the workplace.  I would have loved to have shared with everyone what the ultimate discipline was because it was no mere slap on the wrist, but it was of course confidential.  All I could really say when people asked was that it was a confidential matter. They probably didn't see anything out of the ordinary in his behavior.  Still, I think I had enough credibility in the office that people would believe me that it was handled. 



 

[Pink Cashmere]

Mar 7, 2024 18:32:15 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

That's appalling, Pink Cashmere .  There is simply no excuse for something like that.  

When I stepped in to stop the supervisor from yelling, everyone in the cubicles could see I was doing it.  It was only later that I realized my stopping the verbal abuse probably sent a message to all that such disrespect would not be tolerated. And that's a good thing in the workplace.  I would have loved to have shared with everyone what the ultimate discipline was because it was no mere slap on the wrist, but it was of course confidential.  All I could really say when people asked was that it was a confidential matter. They probably didn't see anything out of the ordinary in his behavior.  Still, I think I had enough credibility in the office that people would believe me that it was handled. 



 

Kudos to you for stepping in. 

Last year, a supervisor at my job got blackballed for intervening when an upper manager was verbally abusive to an employee and yelling slurs at him because he is gay. The supervisor got between the manager and employee to try to separate them. The supervisor had to give a statement as a witness to the incident, and his refusal to lie to make things look better for the manager, did not go over well with the manager and the plant manager.

I don’t want to go on and on about my job in this thread, so I will put the rest of that story in the WAYDRN thread.

[Ava]

Thank you, Pink, for explaining so well what's going on with my manager.
Sometimes it's difficult to portray what's going on.
I understand things have changed. I understand he wants a different performance from us, and I'm so out of place here.
But what I cannot accept is him turning into a bully. He could discipline me, which he has never done, or let me go, or suspend me. But there's no need to raise your voice, say mean things or be nasty. Zero.

I haven't given examples. I don't want to get too specific.
It's not that I don't trust the regulars here, but this is the open internet after all and anyone can be reading.

I had my quarterly review last week, and it went surprisingly well.
We had the meeting through Teams, it was with my manager, his manager, and my new supervisor who used to be my coworkers.
When I signed up, my manager was the only person there. I kept silent. He kept silent for a couple of minutes and then started making small talk. 

After the meeting I sent him a message asking for my December 2024 vacations. It sounds like its too early for that, but believe me, international plane tickets have to be bought several months in advance, or the price goes crazy.
I still plan to job search, but I don't want my life to stop because of that.
So I want my vacation approved, get the ticket, and if I get a job offer I will let them know about the vacation before they make a final decision.

The resume service I paid for had not gotten back to me, so I sent an email today and she answered right back that she had been out of town and somehow had overlooked my package.
She has already sent me a draft and it looks great.
She still has to work on my presentation letter and linkedin profile.

I didn't go to the library this weekend to apply for jobs. My resume will be ready next weekend and I will be back to continue the job search.

[Ava]

Then another thing is that I want more money.
After 6 years in the same position, my raises are not keeping up with inflation.
I could deal with it, but at this point is starting to become a problem.

Yes, I could reduce my retirement contributions but why would I do that?

And my manager has made very clear I would not be promoted.

I feel as if he's sitting on my wallet and squeezing it.
Plus I'm too young to be stack at a sad, toxic, dead end job.

They say the only way to make more money is to jump ship every now and then.

[Ava]

A few weeks have gone by since my last post.
Since then, I got my resume, cover letter, and LinkedIn summary updated by someone who does this professionally.

I would say I'm not impressed with her work. It's ok, not great.
We had some miscommunications, she claimed she didnt see my email where I sent her all my information. Then she tried to rush through my request. I told her please don't rush. She did anyway.

She returned a small part of my payment (15%) as an apology. 

My resume and cover letter look better than before, but they still need a couple of tweaks I can do myself.
The LinkedIn summary she prepared for me... mmh. I dont know.
All the sentences start with "I". I did this, I am that, I am interested in,..
It's my summary, and of course it talks about me, but it's too much "I".

I haven't uploaded it yet, but when I do, there will be some modifications

[Ava]

I have not job searched except for one week when I still didn't have the new resume.

I am having problems with lack of energy. I'm always tired.
The idea was to go to the library on Saturdays and fill applications.
Then I waited 2 weeks for the new resume, then it snow, then we had heavy rain with possible flooding, then it's Easter. 
So, 4 weeks later I haven't filled out a single application.

I have to find my motivation again. I know I'll eventually get there.

My manager approved a 4 weeks vacation for me for the Holidays. So, any possible job that pops up I'll have to let them know about this vacation

[Ava]

So we're getting a new team member. He starts Monday.
When I asked my new manager, who used to be my coworker, if this person will also do some tasks she and I do, she said no. She explained this is a "Junior" position. So no complex tasks.

When I look in the jobs board, I see the new position is at the same pay grade as me, but described as Junior, instead of Senior.

So I asked new manager, because I didn't understand how a Junior will make the same or more than me. I'm at the bottom of the payscale for Senior. So any little bit this person makes, they will be entering the field making more than me.

New manager was very honest, which I appreciate. She explained that I don't understand it is because it really doesn't make sense.
What happens is that the job market is commanding higher salaries. So, in order to bring a Junior in, the company needs to pay what used to be a Senior salary. But, since they have thousands of employees, they are not bringing existing employees up to market value. So the new hires are getting a pay grade above existing employees.
She told me, I'm not asking you to leave, but the only realistic way to get market value pay, is for you to go out in the market. This company is not going to bring your salary up because they need to pay new hires more.

[Ava]

I had a phone conversation with a recruiter this morning.

The job is half the miles than current job.
Travel time 23 minutes compared to 55 minutes as iwould be going against traffic.

Hybrid role, 2 days in office and 3 work from home. Current job is 1 day in the office and 4 days work from home.

Small local company. There are 200 employees compared to 12,000 at current company.

Retirement account 401k with 3% match versus current 5% match.

Healthcare benefits are similar.

PTO is 18 days compared to 27 + 5 you can buy current company

Pay. From 70K to 110K per year. Recruiter said I could get 95k, maybe even 100k but not sure.

No bonus.

Current compensation 85k includes bonus

I was very enthusiastic at first but now that I'm writing it down doesn't look that great anymore.

I feel ill be happier in a smaller company environment.

Compensation is higher but PTO is really low.

I mentioned my trip to Uruguay already booked for Dec. Jan. Recruiter said that should not be an issue.

Recruiter wants to set up an interview.
I told him I'll think it over and let him know tonight.

Thoughts?

[bean29]

Counter for your extra vacation time?

You ask for a bit more salary to make up for the lost 401k match.  

I would do the interview and see what happens.

Good Luck!

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Apr 8, 2024 11:24:38 GMT -5 Ava said:

I had a phone conversation with a recruiter this morning.

The job is half the miles than current job.
Travel time 23 minutes compared to 55 minutes as iwould be going against traffic.

Hybrid role, 2 days in office and 3 work from home. Current job is 1 day in the office and 4 days work from home.

Small local company. There are 200 employees compared to 12,000 at current company.

Retirement account 401k with 3% match versus current 5% match.

Healthcare benefits are similar.

PTO is 18 days compared to 27 + 5 you can buy current company

Pay. From 70K to 110K per year. Recruiter said I could get 95k, maybe even 100k but not sure.

No bonus.

Current compensation 85k includes bonus

I was very enthusiastic at first but now that I'm writing it down doesn't look that great anymore.

I feel ill be happier in a smaller company environment.

Compensation is higher but PTO is really low.

I mentioned my trip to Uruguay already booked for Dec. Jan. Recruiter said that should not be an issue.

Recruiter wants to set up an interview.
I told him I'll think it over and let him know tonight.

Thoughts?

I would do the interview.   Time is ticking at your current place Ava. 

While it has been wonderful to have the vacation that you have at this company unfortunately it is not the reality at most places.  I would not risk staying where you are holding out for a similar vacation policy.

That being said it is something you can negotiate the worst they say is no.  Same with retirement.

The fact they are willing to agree to a month long vacation in December is a good sign.  I would at least go and hear what they have to say and even if his position didn't work out there is always the possibility they remember you for other positions.

ETA: and it's good practice.  I am a lot less stressed when I already have a job and this is a position I am somewhat "meh" about but keeping an open mind.  I don't lose anything by going to the interview.  I potentially stand to gain though so it's worth it.

[NastyWoman]

Apr 8, 2024 11:44:49 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Apr 8, 2024 11:24:38 GMT -5 Ava said:

I had a phone conversation with a recruiter this morning.

The job is half the miles than current job.
Travel time 23 minutes compared to 55 minutes as iwould be going against traffic.

Hybrid role, 2 days in office and 3 work from home. Current job is 1 day in the office and 4 days work from home.

Small local company. There are 200 employees compared to 12,000 at current company.

Retirement account 401k with 3% match versus current 5% match.

Healthcare benefits are similar.

PTO is 18 days compared to 27 + 5 you can buy current company

Pay. From 70K to 110K per year. Recruiter said I could get 95k, maybe even 100k but not sure.

No bonus.

Current compensation 85k includes bonus

I was very enthusiastic at first but now that I'm writing it down doesn't look that great anymore.

I feel ill be happier in a smaller company environment.

Compensation is higher but PTO is really low.

I mentioned my trip to Uruguay already booked for Dec. Jan. Recruiter said that should not be an issue.

Recruiter wants to set up an interview.
I told him I'll think it over and let him know tonight.

Thoughts?

I would do the interview.   Time is ticking at your current place Ava. 

While it has been wonderful to have the vacation that you have at this company unfortunately it is not the reality at most places.  I would not risk staying where you are holding out for a similar vacation policy.

That being said it is something you can negotiate the worst they say is no.  Same with retirement.

The fact they are willing to agree to a month long vacation in December is a good sign.  I would at least go and hear what they have to say and even if his position didn't work out there is always the possibility they remember you for other positions.

ETA: and it's good practice.  I am a lot less stressed when I already have a job and this is a position I am somewhat "meh" about but keeping an open mind.  I don't lose anything by going to the interview.  I potentially stand to gain though so it's worth it.

.  Also keep in mind that your current vacation situation can change any moment since you have been acquired by a much larger entity.  I don't know what the corporate standard is but I would look it up if I were you. I doubt it is what you have now. Add to that the fact that you feel management is hostile towards you and I see every reason to at least go for the interview. 
As for the lower match: stick your additional salary into a Roth IRA and you'll more than make up for it. 

[jerseygirl]

Absolutely! Think of the interview as a learning experience at least
The details look good. You’re really unhappy and worried about future where you are.
Remember the perfect is the enemy of the good
Don’t hold out for the ‘perfect’ job

[raeoflyte]

Def interview. No deal breakers there and a job offer isn't guaranteed. It could be awesome, it could suck but you won't know without more info.

[Ava]

I will read the info he sent me about the benefits and job description.

I will tell him I'm going to interview.
See what happens

[finnime]

Good for you, Ava.

[swamp]

Apr 8, 2024 11:24:38 GMT -5 Ava said:

I had a phone conversation with a recruiter this morning.

The job is half the miles than current job.
Travel time 23 minutes compared to 55 minutes as iwould be going against traffic.

Hybrid role, 2 days in office and 3 work from home. Current job is 1 day in the office and 4 days work from home.

Small local company. There are 200 employees compared to 12,000 at current company.

Retirement account 401k with 3% match versus current 5% match.

Healthcare benefits are similar.

PTO is 18 days compared to 27 + 5 you can buy current company

Pay. From 70K to 110K per year. Recruiter said I could get 95k, maybe even 100k but not sure.

No bonus.

Current compensation 85k includes bonus

I was very enthusiastic at first but now that I'm writing it down doesn't look that great anymore.

I feel ill be happier in a smaller company environment.

Compensation is higher but PTO is really low.

I mentioned my trip to Uruguay already booked for Dec. Jan. Recruiter said that should not be an issue.

Recruiter wants to set up an interview.
I told him I'll think it over and let him know tonight.

Thoughts?

I think you should always take the interview.  You may decide the job isn’t for you, but you could also do some valuable networking 

[seriousthistime]

Apr 8, 2024 12:29:58 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Absolutely! Think of the interview as a learning experience at least
The details look good. You’re really unhappy and worried about future where you are.
Remember the perfect is the enemy of the good
Don’t hold out for the ‘perfect’ job

True in so many aspects of life. 

[Ava]

Now I have to wait to see if the company wants to interview me.

But I'm liking it less and less.

PTO is non negotiable. It's based on position. Current company has it based on position and seniority, you get more the longer you stay with the company.
As an employee I would get 18 days in this place. If I became a manager I would get... 21 days.

And I just realized, In such a small company a promotionis highly unlikely. This job pays more but it's a lateral move. And it looks like another dead end job.

Another thing, the 3% 401k match is after 6 months of service.

I'm thinking I won't go for this, if offered (a big if)

PTO is really important to me, not only because I need to travel, but even having some time left over. I actually go months and months without taking a single PTO day. But every now and then I need one, or I just take one before the year is over and I get to relax and chill.

Plus now that coworker who became manager is acting as such, things have calmed down. I barely talk to prior manager. There's still crazy workloads and stress, but I do what I can. I'm not that stressed anymore.

I will interview anyway, if offered an interview. At least is practice and I get to network.

For 95k I sacrifice a ton of PTO, I get 2 mandatory days in the office instead of 1, and it's only 10k more before taxes.
But even if the recruiter gets me to 100k, with less benefits, less PTO, no bonus, less 401k match, I don't this particular job is worth it.
The difference in pay is 15k before taxes. It's not enough to make a significant change. If benefits were similar it would be a different story. Not that I expect the same amount of PTP days I have now, but 18 forever is not it. PTO includes personal and sick days, so it's a 2 weeks vacation time, more or less.

[Ava]

I know many of you think I'm at risk of becoming unemployed.
But it doesn't look like it.
They even approved my vacation for December-January, and they keep assigning me cases.

I don't want to be desperate and take the first job offer that comes my way just to get out of there.

That is, when I finally get a job offer.
This particular company may not even want to interview me, I don't know.

But I'm sure if I keep applying I will eventually get interviews and a job offer here and there.
Unemployment rate is really low right now.
And I'm not worried about being let go, if it happens I get severance and 6 months to look for a new job. But I'm not on the chopping list at work.

[giramomma]

I would still go through with the interview. I am happy that you talked to a recruiter...

You have no idea one way or the other until you meet folks.

It's good for you to know what questions will likely be asked of you. 

I made some real bad mistakes when I first interviewed. Get them out of the way now, so that you are 100% polished when the job you want comes along.

[giramomma]

Apr 8, 2024 21:29:07 GMT -5 Ava said:

I know many of you think I'm at risk of becoming unemployed.
But it doesn't look like it.
They even approved my vacation for December-January, and they keep assigning me cases.

My friend that got laid off.  They were encouraged to make project proposal pitches to our unit while management was moving to get my colleague fired.

You don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Apr 8, 2024 21:24:45 GMT -5 Ava said:

Now I have to wait to see if the company wants to interview me.

But I'm liking it less and less.

PTO is non negotiable. It's based on position. Current company has it based on position and seniority, you get more the longer you stay with the company.
As an employee I would get 18 days in this place. If I became a manager I would get... 21 days.

And I just realized, In such a small company a promotionis highly unlikely. This job pays more but it's a lateral move. And it looks like another dead end job.

Another thing, the 3% 401k match is after 6 months of service.

I'm thinking I won't go for this, if offered (a big if)

PTO is really important to me, not only because I need to travel, but even having some time left over. I actually go months and months without taking a single PTO day. But every now and then I need one, or I just take one before the year is over and I get to relax and chill.

Plus now that coworker who became manager is acting as such, things have calmed down. I barely talk to prior manager. There's still crazy workloads and stress, but I do what I can. I'm not that stressed anymore.

I will interview anyway, if offered an interview. At least is practice and I get to network.

For 95k I sacrifice a ton of PTO, I get 2 mandatory days in the office instead of 1, and it's only 10k more before taxes.
But even if the recruiter gets me to 100k, with less benefits, less PTO, no bonus, less 401k match, I don't this particular job is worth it.
The difference in pay is 15k before taxes. It's not enough to make a significant change. If benefits were similar it would be a different story. Not that I expect the same amount of PTP days I have now, but 18 forever is not it. PTO includes personal and sick days, so it's a 2 weeks vacation time, more or less.

Wow, that’s a lot.

[daisylu]

I know you have a lot of other things going on Ava , so you may not be seeing the whole picture.


The extra compensation would give you bigger options for retirement savings. Savings that could make a big difference in WHEN you decide to retire and get back to Uruguay. Could speed that move up.

18 PTO days is a common for professionals as a new hire in the job market around here (northern VA), unless you are looking at very high level positions. I suspect that no job is going offer much more than that.

The in office requirement with that short of a commute is not excessive, and IMVHO could help your mental well being.

Just my 2 cents.

[azucena]

I'll echo Daisy and say set up a spreadsheet to project out yr by yr the two salaries side by side along with the different retirement matches and also project raises at 2%. The overall #s may be closer than you think in 5 yrs or so.

You might be able to ask for unpaid leave for an add'l week of vacation. But I agree with others that you won't find your current PTO bucket. Meanwhile, PTO total doesn't matter if you're so stressed daily.

[raeoflyte]

Another option is to see if you have the option to work from Uruguay sometimes. You could extend your time there without burning all your pto.

3-4 weeks is good/standard. Anything more with less than 10 years I feel like is amazing.

[seriousthistime]

Wow, I'm kind of surprised the PTO is so generous for a new hire.  If you are serious about looking around, you might need to reconsider. I would be stunned if you could get anything close to the 27 days you now get.