MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 22, 2016 15:57:02 GMT -5
"the talk" is in 5 mins. I am already freaking out internally. I HATE these conversations.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jan 22, 2016 19:10:58 GMT -5
Hope the talk went as well as could be expected. Tough place for you to be in.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jan 22, 2016 19:14:55 GMT -5
"the talk" is in 5 mins. I am already freaking out internally. I HATE these conversations. I don't know of anyone who actually has to do them (or, has had to do them) who finds them enjoyable. It's difficult to have to deliver what amounts to bad news to another person. Still, it has to be done when the other person isn't delivering on the promises inherent in accepting a position for pay. You are expected to earn that pay. If that's not happening, something's got to be done. It's actually doing the person a favor but it's hard to think of it that way, I know. I hope it went as well as those things can go.
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Jan 22, 2016 19:45:16 GMT -5
"the talk" is in 5 mins. I am already freaking out internally. I HATE these conversations. How did the "talk" go?
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 22, 2016 20:38:30 GMT -5
Okay. Ran longer than I wanted. Basically I asked her her opinions on how she was doing and on the job. I told her to be completely honest. I think she was about 60% honest... Not good. I showed her the numbers for what she's done since October compared with the rest of the team. I basically told her that she needs to get her numbers up (# of issues corrected - that's a HUGE part of our job) and if she truly wants to remain in this position I will need 100% from her. She claims she's been giving 100% but none of us believe she has. And if she has and this is as good as it gets, she needs to go. She took it alright I guess, but I kinda made her tear up. She looked terrified at some points. I felt awful for that but I'm not going to let my team suffer to spare her feelings.
I also found some information that could potentially get her severely disciplined or terminated but I don't know if I'll present it to my bosses yet. Right now I will work on retroactively documenting what I can.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jan 23, 2016 8:06:42 GMT -5
Okay. Ran longer than I wanted. Basically I asked her her opinions on how she was doing and on the job. I told her to be completely honest. I think she was about 60% honest... Not good. I showed her the numbers for what she's done since October compared with the rest of the team. I basically told her that she needs to get her numbers up (# of issues corrected - that's a HUGE part of our job) and if she truly wants to remain in this position I will need 100% from her. She claims she's been giving 100% but none of us believe she has. And if she has and this is as good as it gets, she needs to go. She took it alright I guess, but I kinda made her tear up. She looked terrified at some points. I felt awful for that but I'm not going to let my team suffer to spare her feelings. I also found some information that could potentially get her severely disciplined or terminated but I don't know if I'll present it to my bosses yet. Right now I will work on retroactively documenting what I can. retroactively documenting....... I dislike that. It is after the fact, and the associate has not been disciplined or shown the error of her ways. Hard to improve performance if she does not know she is performing subparly. It might be legal to an extent, but still sort of sticking it to an employee. jmo
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 23, 2016 9:00:55 GMT -5
Okay. Ran longer than I wanted. Basically I asked her her opinions on how she was doing and on the job. I told her to be completely honest. I think she was about 60% honest... Not good. I showed her the numbers for what she's done since October compared with the rest of the team. I basically told her that she needs to get her numbers up (# of issues corrected - that's a HUGE part of our job) and if she truly wants to remain in this position I will need 100% from her. She claims she's been giving 100% but none of us believe she has. And if she has and this is as good as it gets, she needs to go. She took it alright I guess, but I kinda made her tear up. She looked terrified at some points. I felt awful for that but I'm not going to let my team suffer to spare her feelings. I also found some information that could potentially get her severely disciplined or terminated but I don't know if I'll present it to my bosses yet. Right now I will work on retroactively documenting what I can. retroactively documenting....... I dislike that. It is after the fact, and the associate has not been disciplined or shown the error of her ways. Hard to improve performance if she does not know she is performing subparly. It might be legal to an extent, but still sort of sticking it to an employee. jmo I mean tracking how long it's been taking her to fix issues. We've had little talks about her performance here and there. I had been keeping a record of what I gave her but kept forgetting to check that at the end of the day. Example - yesterday I gave her 8 issues to fix at 10am. I checked at 12:40 and none of them were done. What had she been doing that whole time? I checked again at 4pm, only 3 or 4 were done. She didn't have anything else going on. There is no excuse for 4 items in 6 hours.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Jan 23, 2016 9:19:41 GMT -5
MJ - I stumbled across a blog called ask a manager. It has completely changed my perspective on managing employees and having the conversation. Great tips on what to say to underperforming employees (and a bunch of other stuff.)
In this situation I would say you need really clear goals: "I need you to resolve 8 issues a day. Can you do that? Of you cannot commit to doing that moving forward it will put your job in jeopardy." Hopefully that's along the lines of the conversation you had. It sucks, but the blogs perspective is that your real audience when you're getting rid of an underperforming employee isn't just the employee but the rest of the team as well. You want them to know that you will be fair, but you will also not put up with this nonsense. Good luck!
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Anne_in_VA
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Post by Anne_in_VA on Jan 23, 2016 10:18:16 GMT -5
I think in this situation where you've given her a specific number of issues to fix and she hasn't done them in a reasonable period of time, you need to talk with her at the end of that day. Was she surfing the net during the day she had these issues to fix? If she was, then that also needs to be brought to her attention.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jan 23, 2016 10:42:36 GMT -5
retroactively documenting....... I dislike that. It is after the fact, and the associate has not been disciplined or shown the error of her ways. Hard to improve performance if she does not know she is performing subparly. It might be legal to an extent, but still sort of sticking it to an employee. jmo I mean tracking how long it's been taking her to fix issues. We've had little talks about her performance here and there. I had been keeping a record of what I gave her but kept forgetting to check that at the end of the day. Example - yesterday I gave her 8 issues to fix at 10am. I checked at 12:40 and none of them were done. What had she been doing that whole time? I checked again at 4pm, only 3 or 4 were done. She didn't have anything else going on. There is no excuse for 4 items in 6 hours. I'd approach this with her today and document her response. It's much better to discuss something when it's fresh in the mind. It's also more effective in letting the employee know you meant exactly what you said and she will be monitored for effort and improvement.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 23, 2016 10:44:57 GMT -5
I think I'd also ask what had she been doing as opposed to tasks assigned?
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milee
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Post by milee on Jan 23, 2016 11:22:55 GMT -5
I think I'd also ask what had she been doing as opposed to tasks assigned? When I have an employee that's not getting enough done and for the first discussion or two I want to approach the topic gently - because they usually insist they're very "busy" and "working as fast as they can" - I don't directly disagree with that assertion right away. I nod and say, "OK, I understand you're busy. This may just be a matter of prioritizing the work load. If you'd like some help with that, why don't you list what you're working on and I can help you rank the priority order."
At this point, they definitely don't want your help "prioritizing" because they know full well that it's not other work that's keeping them from doing what you want them to do so they usually say that they'll handle it. At that point, you can agree with them again and let them know that for the next ______ (insert time frame) you'll be checking in with them at the end of the day to make sure ______ is done and if it isn't happening then you can revisit the priority list.
This is if you think the employee is worth saving or if you think you might be stuck with her for other political reasons. It's a way to light the fire without her losing face and if it's possible for her to reform and she chooses to do it, then you'll still have a good employee/supervisor relationship.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 23, 2016 11:35:33 GMT -5
I think I'd also ask what had she been doing as opposed to tasks assigned? When I have an employee that's not getting enough done and for the first discussion or two I want to approach the topic gently - because they usually insist they're very "busy" and "working as fast as they can" - I don't directly disagree with that assertion right away. I nod and say, "OK, I understand you're busy. This may just be a matter of prioritizing the work load. If you'd like some help with that, why don't you list what you're working on and I can help you rank the priority order."
At this point, they definitely don't want your help "prioritizing" because they know full well that it's not other work that's keeping them from doing what you want them to do so they usually say that they'll handle it. At that point, you can agree with them again and let them know that for the next ______ (insert time frame) you'll be checking in with them at the end of the day to make sure ______ is done and if it isn't happening then you can revisit the priority list.
This is if you think the employee is worth saving or if you think you might be stuck with her for other political reasons. It's a way to light the fire without her losing face and if it's possible for her to reform and she chooses to do it, then you'll still have a good employee/supervisor relationship.
I did that for a while. She claimed she was having issues understanding how to do the work. So I sat with her and did walkthroughs of some issue resolutions... Many times. And other associates have done the same thing. I remember one of them clearly. She just had to compare the documents to the information in our system and make them match (that is 95% of our job!). I helped her pull the right batch of info, I made sure she pulled the correct docs, and I told her to make the system info match the docs. All of these things have been shown to her and explained to her many times. She asked no questions, so I went to the restroom and heated my lunch. When I got back, another associate was helping her do something. And by "help" he basically ended up doing it for her. When he was finished, I found out that it was the EXACT SAME THING I showed her how to do in great detail! After lunch I asked her if she was able to take care of that thing okay, (although I already knew) and she said she fixed it and gave no indication that she had a great deal of help.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jan 23, 2016 12:09:22 GMT -5
When I have an employee that's not getting enough done and for the first discussion or two I want to approach the topic gently - because they usually insist they're very "busy" and "working as fast as they can" - I don't directly disagree with that assertion right away. I nod and say, "OK, I understand you're busy. This may just be a matter of prioritizing the work load. If you'd like some help with that, why don't you list what you're working on and I can help you rank the priority order."
At this point, they definitely don't want your help "prioritizing" because they know full well that it's not other work that's keeping them from doing what you want them to do so they usually say that they'll handle it. At that point, you can agree with them again and let them know that for the next ______ (insert time frame) you'll be checking in with them at the end of the day to make sure ______ is done and if it isn't happening then you can revisit the priority list.
This is if you think the employee is worth saving or if you think you might be stuck with her for other political reasons. It's a way to light the fire without her losing face and if it's possible for her to reform and she chooses to do it, then you'll still have a good employee/supervisor relationship.
I did that for a while. She claimed she was having issues understanding how to do the work. So I sat with her and did walkthroughs of some issue resolutions... Many times. And other associates have done the same thing. I remember one of them clearly. She just had to compare the documents to the information in our system and make them match (that is 95% of our job!). I helped her pull the right batch of info, I made sure she pulled the correct docs, and I told her to make the system info match the docs. All of these things have been shown to her and explained to her many times. She asked no questions, so I went to the restroom and heated my lunch. When I got back, another associate was helping her do something. And by "help" he basically ended up doing it for her. When he was finished, I found out that it was the EXACT SAME THING I showed her how to do in great detail! After lunch I asked her if she was able to take care of that thing okay, (although I already knew) and she said she fixed it and gave no indication that she had a great deal of help. That is the worst. Seriously. People like that make me want to beat my head against the wall.
On the bright side, if you're serious about tackling the issue it won't take long to document the problems.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 23, 2016 12:14:20 GMT -5
Argh
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toomuchreality
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Post by toomuchreality on Jan 24, 2016 4:28:01 GMT -5
Good luck with this.
I once trained a woman who really sucked at the job. She blamed everyone and everything, for her problems. When they tried to get rid of her, she said they were racists and totally changed her race. Another time she changed the facts about having children (it turned out the children she suddenly had, were children she sent $7.00 a month for, overseas!). She did this a lot and got away with it!
I would never believe it, if I hadn't been part of it.
Good advice has been given. Sorry you are having to live through this! I seriously wish you all the best. ♥
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 26, 2016 10:41:06 GMT -5
I talked to my boss today about my talk with Problem Child. He basically said that since I'm not sitting with her while she's doing all her work, I'm not doing all I can to help. Love the fact that I have no support for this. No matter what, it's my fault if she doesn't succeed.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jan 26, 2016 10:49:30 GMT -5
Okay. Ran longer than I wanted. Basically I asked her her opinions on how she was doing and on the job. I told her to be completely honest. I think she was about 60% honest... Not good. I showed her the numbers for what she's done since October compared with the rest of the team. I basically told her that she needs to get her numbers up (# of issues corrected - that's a HUGE part of our job) and if she truly wants to remain in this position I will need 100% from her. She claims she's been giving 100% but none of us believe she has. And if she has and this is as good as it gets, she needs to go. She took it alright I guess, but I kinda made her tear up. She looked terrified at some points. I felt awful for that but I'm not going to let my team suffer to spare her feelings. I also found some information that could potentially get her severely disciplined or terminated but I don't know if I'll present it to my bosses yet. Right now I will work on retroactively documenting what I can. It is really great that you have a trackable metric to judge her work on, though. It makes it so much easier. It is there in black or white. She is either producing or not.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 26, 2016 10:50:55 GMT -5
I talked to my boss today about my talk with Problem Child. He basically said that since I'm not sitting with her while she's doing all her work, I'm not doing all I can to help. Love the fact that I have no support for this. No matter what, it's my fault if she doesn't succeed.
She's a favorite of somebody higher up the food chain. Same thing happened to DH when he tried to discuss problem QA and even provided documentation showing what she did.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 26, 2016 11:17:37 GMT -5
She is. She's friends with like all of HR and she is neighbors with one of the Executives. I have never lost it at work but I was very close this morning. He has no idea what I'm experiencing and my whole team has said the same thing as I've been saying! This is unreasonable.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Jan 26, 2016 11:18:27 GMT -5
Jen sorry this sucks. I would just CYA yourself as much as possible and keep as much paper work as possible on when you are helping and what you are doing. It may not lead anywhere with her, but it might keep you safe.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 26, 2016 11:19:05 GMT -5
But she's SPECIAL! She has people skills dammit!
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Jan 26, 2016 11:19:36 GMT -5
See if there are anymore internal jobs that she might be a better fit for..... Hey does HR have any openings they might love to have her.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jan 26, 2016 11:19:41 GMT -5
She is. She's friends with like all of HR and she is neighbors with one of the Executives. I have never lost it at work but I was very close this morning. He has no idea what I'm experiencing and my whole team has said the same thing as I've been saying! This is unreasonable. Can you convince the rest of your team to be really mean to her until she quits.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2016 11:43:03 GMT -5
She is. She's friends with like all of HR and she is neighbors with one of the Executives. I have never lost it at work but I was very close this morning. He has no idea what I'm experiencing and my whole team has said the same thing as I've been saying! This is unreasonable. Can you convince the rest of your team to be really mean to her until she quits. that works on message boards :-(
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jan 26, 2016 11:43:29 GMT -5
Can you convince the rest of your team to be really mean to her until she quits. that works on message boards :-( good to see you hickle.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 26, 2016 11:47:35 GMT -5
She is. She's friends with like all of HR and she is neighbors with one of the Executives. I have never lost it at work but I was very close this morning. He has no idea what I'm experiencing and my whole team has said the same thing as I've been saying! This is unreasonable. Can you convince the rest of your team to be really mean to her until she quits. Constructive discharge. Not good.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jan 26, 2016 11:56:10 GMT -5
Can you convince the rest of your team to be really mean to her until she quits. Constructive discharge. Not good. It works on message boards.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 26, 2016 12:00:11 GMT -5
She is. She's friends with like all of HR and she is neighbors with one of the Executives. I have never lost it at work but I was very close this morning. He has no idea what I'm experiencing and my whole team has said the same thing as I've been saying! This is unreasonable. Can you convince the rest of your team to be really mean to her until she quits. That may unintentionally happen as we all get tired of picking up her slack.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 26, 2016 12:00:58 GMT -5
Constructive discharge. Not good. It works on message boards. Message boards may be a 'workplace' for several posters, but for the rest of us it's not and nor does it pay the bills.
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