Home school / unschool?

[Sam_2.0]

DD is supposed to start kindergarten in the fall. I think she's ready, but the more I get into it, the more I just want her to be able to be a kid a bit longer. Just looking into some alternatives for delaying school a bit. We could red-shirt her since her birthday is 5 days before the cutoff. Or we could start at home with more of an un-school approach, learning about the things she's interested in and waiting until later for more formal instruction (DH wouldn't really be on board with that, I am guessing).

Lena - Oped - any other home schoolers here? I really don't know where to start. The ones I know that home school do it for super religious reasons and not for un-schooling academic type reasons.

[yogiii]

sam, have you done a kindergarten tour? Our public K is only half day and there is still a lot of play time. They have recess, snack, the classrooms all have tons of toys like blocks and play kitchens. They do work also but my DS who I would not describe as very scholarly at this point does not seem to be stressing at all or anything.

I don't want to sound like I'm anti-homeschool (because I'm not, I don't care what people do) but kindergarten in my town is very different from the parts of kindy that I remember.

[Sam_2.0]

I've not yet, but I need to Ours is full-day K and, from what I've heard on the neighborhood page, homework starts in K. The other option is to look into the private schools here, some that are more of a Montessori type.

[bean29]

My cousin homeschooled b/c she felt you only have your kids home for so long and then they are on their own.  I think it was somewhat religious and controlling the environment too.  She was an education major like OPED, although I think OPED is more educated (Not that my cousin was not a wonderful teacher). 

My cousin had 6 or 7 kids.  Her youngest is about 11 or 12 and the older ones are in their 30's.  I think she only has 2 at home and the next youngest may be a senior in HS this year.  My cousin did the homeschool groups like OPED does. 

I kind of think there are a lot of positives with the social interaction on the Kindergarten age.  My son had a little trouble adjusting to K4, but DD was ready to go, no separation anxiety at all.

Maybe you could visit classroom of conventional schools then contact some homeschooling groups and talk to some parents who are currently homeschooling kids that are Early Childhood level.

[yogiii]

Jan 18, 2016 15:20:11 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

I've not yet, but I need to Ours is full-day K and, from what I've heard on the neighborhood page, homework starts in K. The other option is to look into the private schools here, some that are more of a Montessori type.

DS has optional hw but I didn't tell him it's optional.

Over the weekend he had one worksheet. It was stuff like a pic of 24 bunnies and you had to color 20. 

So for a kid who enjoys coloring (not him), it wouldn't be bad. I was a big dork, so I would have loved all the hw he gets.

[MJ2.0]

I second taking a tour.  I have the same reservations that you do.  I looked into homeschooling groups and the ones I found were religious.  I also can't homeschool him myself because I work FT and I'm not as good at the teaching/patience stuff as maybe a qualified educator (or someone with more patience than me) would be.    I do want him to go into regular school because our district is VERY good, but he gets overwhelmed in a large group and he acts out by being very loud and disruptive.  His pre-k teachers had to give him special toys to calm him down during lessons.  He's also pretty high energy so I don't see him sitting at a desk and paying attention for hours.  But he's been really into watching experiments on You Tube (Crazy Russian Hacker is his favorite channel at the moment) as well as volcano eruptions.  One weekend we made a pretend volcano and he LOVED it.  We also made butter in a mason jar this past weekend and he loved that too.  He is definitely a hands-on learning kid (as was/am I) and I don't want traditional school to kill his love of learning by making him sit at a desk and memorize facts.

[MJ2.0]

Jan 18, 2016 15:23:16 GMT -5 yogiii said:

Jan 18, 2016 15:20:11 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

I've not yet, but I need to Ours is full-day K and, from what I've heard on the neighborhood page, homework starts in K. The other option is to look into the private schools here, some that are more of a Montessori type.

DS has optional hw but I didn't tell him it's optional.

Over the weekend he had one worksheet. It was stuff like a pic of 24 bunnies and you had to color 20. 

So for a kid who enjoys coloring (not him), it wouldn't be bad. I was a big dork, so I would have loved all the hw he gets.

Pfffft, that's not homework!

[yogiii]

Jan 18, 2016 15:26:38 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Jan 18, 2016 15:23:16 GMT -5 yogiii said:

DS has optional hw but I didn't tell him it's optional.

Over the weekend he had one worksheet. It was stuff like a pic of 24 bunnies and you had to color 20. 

So for a kid who enjoys coloring (not him), it wouldn't be bad. I was a big dork, so I would have loved all the hw he gets.

Pfffft, that's not homework!

I know, that's why touring might clarify that.

Over Thanksgiving, he actually started doing work in a workbook I bought him when he was 4 (and he has never used). I think he was kind of missing school. I was so proud!

[imawino]

Jan 18, 2016 15:09:19 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

DD is supposed to start kindergarten in the fall. I think she's ready, but the more I get into it, the more I just want her to be able to be a kid a bit longer. Just looking into some alternatives for delaying school a bit. We could red-shirt her since her birthday is 5 days before the cutoff. Or we could start at home with more of an un-school approach, learning about the things she's interested in and waiting until later for more formal instruction (DH wouldn't really be on board with that, I am guessing).

Lena - Oped - any other home schoolers here? I really don't know where to start. The ones I know that home school do it for super religious reasons and not for un-schooling academic type reasons.

First off, I'm gonna say this:  I have no kids, and no expert knowledge on kindergarten or homeschooling obviously.  But the bolded struck me, so I want to ask - if you think SHE is ready, is the desire to keep her home for your benefit, or hers? 

[Sam_2.0]

imawino - I think that she would do just fine in a traditional classroom setting. As in, she could check the boxes and do ok. I just have reservations and wonder if it's the best option for her in the long run? School goes from 8:20-3:20. That is a LONG day for a 5yr old. Half-day isn't an option either. She goes to pre-K right now 4 days/wk from 9:30-2:30 and I think it's a bit too long. She wants to learn, but she also can't sit still long either. We are working on reading with her now. She's good for a bit, then she wants to get up & play.

[Sam_2.0]

But, OTOH, being in K all day will save me about $300/month. So that is a nice thing

[MJ2.0]

Jan 18, 2016 15:40:20 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

imawino - I think that she would do just fine in a traditional classroom setting. As in, she could check the boxes and do ok. I just have reservations and wonder if it's the best option for her in the long run? School goes from 8:20-3:20. That is a LONG day for a 5yr old. Half-day isn't an option either. She goes to pre-K right now 4 days/wk from 9:30-2:30 and I think it's a bit too long. She wants to learn, but she also can't sit still long either. We are working on reading with her now. She's good for a bit, then she wants to get up & play.

See, in my case I don't think DS would do well in the traditional school setting because the classroom sizes are too large and he'll have behavioral problems.  I know there are aides and helpers, but he cannot sit still for more than 5 mins at a time.  I also think it's normal for 4-5 year olds to not want to sit for ages.  Hell, *I* hate sitting for ages!

[imawino]

Jan 18, 2016 15:40:20 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

imawino - I think that she would do just fine in a traditional classroom setting. As in, she could check the boxes and do ok. I just have reservations and wonder if it's the best option for her in the long run? School goes from 8:20-3:20. That is a LONG day for a 5yr old. Half-day isn't an option either. She goes to pre-K right now 4 days/wk from 9:30-2:30 and I think it's a bit too long. She wants to learn, but she also can't sit still long either. We are working on reading with her now. She's good for a bit, then she wants to get up & play.

That is a really long day! I think kindy is half day locally.

[zibazinski]

They need those desks with bicycles underneath them.

[Deleted]

Not sure you want to ask me today... araghh...

But seriously. Where to start. Well, I don't think a tour is a bad idea. I also don't believe in deciding the whole course of their school careers before they start. If you go to the tour and think it isn't the best step for next year, keep her home. Do the unschooling learn what she likes thing, find some homeschool groups in your area to hang out with occasionally, and then reassess next year this time. K is not mandatory. If she has a good year and wants to start 1 she can do that (if your school balks, call me, I'm a good advocate).. or maybe you decide you like what you are doing and keep going. Its nothing that has to be decided once and done. You can always change your mind or reassess and move in another direction.

As for curriculum etc at K... the unschooling thing is much better, no reason to waste $ on curriculum for K, just buy books to read together and audiobooks to listen to (and maybe a few math manipulative to play with) or dust off your library card and museum membership if you have one.

Would you need to stop working to homeschool?

Elementary kids, including K, in my area can get on the bus before 7 and not get home till after 4... its a looooong day.

[Deleted]

Jan 18, 2016 15:52:46 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

They need those desks with bicycles underneath them.

Or bounce balls you sit on...

[Deleted]

Jan 18, 2016 15:23:16 GMT -5 yogiii said:

Jan 18, 2016 15:20:11 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

I've not yet, but I need to Ours is full-day K and, from what I've heard on the neighborhood page, homework starts in K. The other option is to look into the private schools here, some that are more of a Montessori type.

DS has optional hw but I didn't tell him it's optional.

Over the weekend he had one worksheet. It was stuff like a pic of 24 bunnies and you had to color 20. 

So for a kid who enjoys coloring (not him), it wouldn't be bad. I was a big dork, so I would have loved all the hw he gets.

So, keep things on hand like those stamper markers (similar to what they use at bingo) and have them 'stamp' 20 instead.  Kids love to stamp.  Or, have them spread glue on 20 and then pour glitter on them and have 20 glitter bunnies.  Kids love glue.

ie. What is the goal of the task? To be a good colorer? Or to count to 20 and distinguish 20 from 24.... so, do the task for the skill being reinforced.

And if the teacher asks why it was done that way... ask HER what was the point of the task?  

[zibazinski]

Jan 18, 2016 16:48:12 GMT -5 oped said:

Jan 18, 2016 15:52:46 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

They need those desks with bicycles underneath them.

Or bounce balls you sit on...

Yes, but the bounce balls distract others. This way you sit at your desk and when you feel antsy, you pedal. I think it's awesome.

[Sam_2.0]

The part about being home schooled that I loved - being able to do "school" where ever I wanted. I didn't have to sit at the table or at a desk. I could walk around, lay on the floor, etc.

Not sure if I could do it & work. So it would be more just red-shirting her this year and us working with her nights/weekends. So that probably wouldn't be a viable option for DH.

The other part of this, I am probably projecting my own issues on the situation. I have a degree to teach HS math. So I know enough about the schools around here to be dangerous, and yet I don't feel 100% qualified to be teaching Al since I don't have an early childhood degree (not that I don't think I could, I just think others would be more qualified).

OMG. This is too much work. Hahah!

[Deleted]

You don't need a EC degree to teach a kid the stuff they learn in elementary school. Its nice to have a sounding board, which you find in a group or online, if you struggle with something or just to check in now and again, but it really doesn't take much to give younger kids what they need... a stimulating environment where they can actively engage and ask questions. Read a lot, listen to stories, play, make order of your surroundings, explore the topics that interest you... its not hard.

A great deal of teacher education, especially at that age, is classroom management, differentiation, etc. the content stuff is not hard to pick up or impart and honestly changes all the time anyway. Do you want some books to read recommendations?

[muttleynfelix]

Jan 18, 2016 15:40:20 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

imawino - I think that she would do just fine in a traditional classroom setting. As in, she could check the boxes and do ok. I just have reservations and wonder if it's the best option for her in the long run? School goes from 8:20-3:20. That is a LONG day for a 5yr old. Half-day isn't an option either. She goes to pre-K right now 4 days/wk from 9:30-2:30 and I think it's a bit too long. She wants to learn, but she also can't sit still long either. We are working on reading with her now. She's good for a bit, then she wants to get up & play.

i think school experience varies a lot by district, school, even the teacher. So take a tour, talk to the principal and talk to parents who have lots of kids who have gone through the school. I am spoiled, Ben has probably the best teacher in the school based on what my friends tell me. But no one is sitting still isn't for hours on end in their class room. I don't think they sit for more than 10 min at a time. I'd have to check their schedule, but they move from activity to activity very quickly. As for the long day, at our school they do rest time in Kindergarten for on average a month, they phase it out as the kids build up their stamina. No homework that has to be returned. We've done one project. They get 2 recesses a day and play time. Yes it is a structured learning environment, but it is also a lot of learning through play.

[swamp]

I redshirted my kid. 

[whoisjohngalt]

Sam_2.0

So I am as anti unschooling as you get (meaning, it does not and would  not work for me, everyone else can do what they want), but I never "homeschooled" K.

All three of my kids love workbooks, I have no clue why.  So, I let them do it whichever way they want to.  After the first kid all the flash cards with letter, numbers and colors went out of the window bc I simply didn't have the time or energy.  Miraculously, they still know all that crap.  My youngest is the same age as  A, btw.

From what I've heard of K descriptions around here they sound pretty good.  Kids don't sit at the desk too much, there is recess, play time, etc. 

So, (I hope it doesn't sound mean) if you are not "homeschooling" her during the day, I don't see any reason for her not to go.

Also, I've noticed that in all the homeschooling groups around here 99.9% of the activities are geared towards "school" age kids.  Yes, people drag their little ones along and yes, there are nature classes and music classes, but that's not homeschooling, it's just extra activities that kids can do. 

Does any of this make sense?

[Sam_2.0]

Shit. Here I am thinking home school was an option.

Tonight I got home from work at 5 and decided to let Al help me make dinner. We made meatballs and spaghetti and I let her help. We made meatballs and talked about ingredients andwhat they were for. Ended up with raw meat on the floor, on her hands, on her feet. YIKES! Made pasta, it boiled over. Ran to get it, knocked over J who hit his head. Fixed the pasta, comforted J, and A burned herself (step stool still by the stove). Put down screaming J, comfort A. Burn meatballs.

Yeah, I cant do that every day. Hahahahaha!

[Deleted]

Yeah, if stuff not being perfect drives you batty, it would be a rough go but like I said, every year (at least) is a new opportunity. If you aren't there now, maybe some day you will be... Start with the tour and go from there.

[Deleted]

On the homeschool group thing Lena was saying... I know that not all are the same, but we have lots of young kid stuff and are happy for people to join even if they only have preschoolers... we find that by the time it's school enrollment age, they are feeling confident, also it helps to have friends that don't all leave you to go to school.

I'm trying to keep myself from commenting on what is a 'school' activity vs 'just something to do' ... It's not working...

[yogiii]

Jan 18, 2016 16:54:23 GMT -5 oped said:

Jan 18, 2016 15:23:16 GMT -5 yogiii said:

DS has optional hw but I didn't tell him it's optional.

Over the weekend he had one worksheet. It was stuff like a pic of 24 bunnies and you had to color 20. 

So for a kid who enjoys coloring (not him), it wouldn't be bad. I was a big dork, so I would have loved all the hw he gets.

So, keep things on hand like those stamper markers (similar to what they use at bingo) and have them 'stamp' 20 instead.  Kids love to stamp.  Or, have them spread glue on 20 and then pour glitter on them and have 20 glitter bunnies.  Kids love glue.

ie. What is the goal of the task? To be a good colorer? Or to count to 20 and distinguish 20 from 24.... so, do the task for the skill being reinforced.

And if the teacher asks why it was done that way... ask HER what was the point of the task?  

The goal was to count 20.  For him, practicing coloring doesn't hurt.  He will never choose to color as an activity at home, but if the teacher gives the class something to color, he will do it.

[Deleted]

As a teacher, I never would have minded coloring or not coloring so long as the goal was met. Some kids color quickly like champs, others find it a tedious process. I don't believe personally in handicapping some kids to the goal, or leading some kids to hate the main subject (math) due to a secondary aversion (coloring).

But the nice thing is we each get to make our own decisions glad we have choices.

[yogiii]

He had a different worksheet a few weeks back where the directions said to make an x over each object while counting and then write the total number of objects. I read him the directions and he told me he didn't want to make the x. He then proceeded to count by rows - 4, 8, 12, 16 and then wrote 16. I told him that was fine but that some teachers are real sticklers for directions, so in the future something as silly as not putting an x over the objects could become a problem.  I'm not under the impression his current teacher cares, but seemingly silly stuff like than can happen so I wanted him to be aware of the possible consequences that come along with not following directions.

[Deleted]

I don't want to hijack with educational theory and understand your perspective on following directions. I personally feel like th compulsory facet of education makes it different than any other environment (with some exceptions at high school levels). Most of us, if we don't desire to follow all of another person's directions, can choose to remove ourselves from the environment, or choose to stay because following directions is worth the outcome we are ultimately choosing. Kids pretty much lack those fundamental overarching choices. They have to be there. So I give wide variety of options (particularly since kids learn and excel in vastly different time frames and modes) within the framework of the ultimate goal. And frankly if a teacher wasn't willing to do so, I'd be reluctant to give my child over to that classroom. But again, that's just me