Home school / unschool?

[Deleted]

You know, I hate all these area that can sound like mommy wars. I put that's just me at the end of stuff with a smile because I want to acknowldge that my choices aren't everyone's choices and there are many different ways to look at and conceptualize these things, and I don't think many of them are outright wrong (outside abusive/neglectful choices, which no one is making here)...

But still when I reread it, it sounds smug and like I think my view is better, which I do not. Just for me and mine. I really do just want to acknowledge that not everyone views things the same, or makes the same choice, and that's ok...

[yogiii]

I'm not offended

[bean29]

Jan 18, 2016 22:03:16 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Shit. Here I am thinking home school was an option.

Tonight I got home from work at 5 and decided to let Al help me make dinner. We made meatballs and spaghetti and I let her help. We made meatballs and talked about ingredients andwhat they were for. Ended up with raw meat on the floor, on her hands, on her feet. YIKES! Made pasta, it boiled over. Ran to get it, knocked over J who hit his head. Fixed the pasta, comforted J, and A burned herself (step stool still by the stove). Put down screaming J, comfort A. Burn meatballs.

Yeah, I cant do that every day. Hahahahaha!

This was my life both times I was on Maternity leave.  I figured I might as well go back to work and turn my kids over to MIL.  At least I would have a paycheck to show for my day.  MIL of course could watch the kiddos, cook dinner, keep the house clean and make it seem effortless.  My MIL was particularly gifted with children - we really lucked out.  MIL did not just watch my kids but often had a Niece the same age as DD and two nephews that are 2 and 4 years younger than DD, and often some of the other cousins and a cousin or two of DH who are in my kids age range.  It gave my kids a strong awareness of family bonds and their ethnic culture/heritage.

[bean29]

People who are trained to be teachers have classes dedicated to Methods of teaching. How to explain things so different people will understand the content.  Notice how OPED presents different ways to teach a concept to the children? I think some homeschool parents who belong to these homeschool groups, probably have an equivalent to a teaching degree with all the research and prep they do, but I would really struggle to teach my own kids. 

I do have regret now that my kids are grown, that I maybe worked too much and didn't spend enough time reinforcing homework like Math and Science...but then I look at new math problems and know - that's why I didn't try to teach my kids math - I don't understand how to solve those problems. 

I don't like to see anyone's options or choices limited, I am glad we have these boards so we can explore options we have with others who have had similar experiences with good and bad results. 

Does anyone know anyone who had a bad experience homeschooling?  Do people who choose to homeschool generally succeed?  I have to admit that most I know of that have homeschooled have positive things to say about it. 

[Deleted]

It really isn't hard to find some books, or Pinterest site or person to bounce ideas off of for content and methods at home. My background is special Ed, so I probably have more exposur to differentiation and multiple modalities than some, but to me mostly it's breaking myself away from the set task orientation manner that unfortunately, due to the limitations of a classroom, often becomes the norm in public school. Not blaming teachers, it's hard work to attempt to meet everyone's needs in a class environment. Which is why, as Anne pointed towards, one on one instruction can make up for a multitude of other things that might be imperfect in the homeschooling environment.

On that note, bad results homeschooing? I evaluate for lots of other families and I guess I'd only consider a bad result to be something where I think the child is receiving preparation for life that is inconsistent with their stated goals and potential ability. This hasn't happened often? In most cases when I consider would the student have a better outcome if they were enrolled in public school, the answer is unlikely. There are instances 1) in which I wish parent might get extra help with a learning disability/mental capacity issues. (That is the only one that I ever called the school about... They said they would recommend services to the parents, but didn't seem worried, so again, went to unlikely school enrollment would prove better...) or 2) where parents were very rigid to a school like atmosphere that made me think that the situation was not likely to have the benefits of either homeschooling or public schooling.

I don't get a ton of ultra conservative types though. We have some people on group to whom religion is of central importance, but our group is secular, so we don't have a lot of people who are what I might consider very limiting in their content focus. Again, I'm not saying that is inherently an issue, although if it was inconsistent with a child's stated goals I'd probably have a hard time with it.

[Deleted]

I'm reserving judgement for an unschooling situation I know. I'm not sure how that is going to work out long term...

[swamp]

Jan 19, 2016 10:33:54 GMT -5 bean29 said:

People who are trained to be teachers have classes dedicated to Methods of teaching. How to explain things so different people will understand the content.  Notice how OPED presents different ways to teach a concept to the children? I think some homeschool parents who belong to these homeschool groups, probably have an equivalent to a teaching degree with all the research and prep they do, but I would really struggle to teach my own kids. 

I do have regret now that my kids are grown, that I maybe worked too much and didn't spend enough time reinforcing homework like Math and Science...but then I look at new math problems and know - that's why I didn't try to teach my kids math - I don't understand how to solve those problems. 

I don't like to see anyone's options or choices limited, I am glad we have these boards so we can explore options we have with others who have had similar experiences with good and bad results. 

Does anyone know anyone who had a bad experience homeschooling?  Do people who choose to homeschool generally succeed?  I have to admit that most I know of that have homeschooled have positive things to say about it. 

Oped has a background in teaching and is passionate about what she does. I fully support people like Oped homeschooling and believe their children are better for it.

Unfortunately, I seem to run into mainly those who homeschool to avoid such concepts as evolution and who are way to heavy on the religion. Those children miss out.

[bean29]

My husband always felt my cousin was homeschooling to avoid her children being exposed to minorities. I never really felt she was that shallow. But, in any rate, now that her older kids are adult, she has a much loved mixed race grandchild - so it is no longer an issue that we have any doubt about.

I think she wanted to control the religious ed, but I don't think she mis-represented any science concepts.  From everything I understand about her children, they have been very successful as independent adults.

I think she is just a very special person that finds every moment of being a parent and teaching in a one-on-one environment to be rewarding. 

I love my kids, but I appreciate the fact that I was not 100% responsible for their education.

Sometimes I wonder if we should have chosen private over public schools, but all-in-all I am pretty satisfied with the results.

I often wonder if parents of kids that are struggling and or behavior problems might take the kids out of school, claim they are homeschooling and brush their issues under the rug so to speak.

On another note, My school district and Three-Four other school districts have a joint school to serve kids with behavior or other issues that put them at risk for dropping out.  My beautician's daughter was sent there b/c she was acting up in school and got in at least 2 fights at school with other girls.  A girl she fought had to be taken to the hospital.  She actually graduated a semester early.  She is now at a 2 year college that promises if you graduate with a certain GPA you can get into UW-Madison.  Her goal is not Madison, but Environmental Engineering (Madison is a top rated Engineering School but she wants to go to UW-Platteville).  She currently has a 3.8 GPA.  I am very hopeful that this girl attains her goal.

At one of the recent family holidays my SIL was telling us that they were asked to send one of their kids to that school b/c he has a learning disability (I know he is ADD/ADHD).  She absolutely did not want him to go there b/c she felt he would be associating with losers and not get an education.  I think this may be true, but it is one of those situations were everyone does not get the same benefit from every learning situation.  Some people really benefit from one on one attention and others benefit more from a classroom learning environment.  I think we should be open to exploring different opportunities in life.

[raeoflyte]

We red-shirted Ds for social reasons.  He's 6 1/2 and in kindergarten.  Academically he's scoring in 1st/2nd grade in reading and math which is great, and he really likes school, loves his teacher, misses his friends over breaks, etc, but I have to constantly bite my tongue even in a top rated public school district.  They get 2 recesses--one in the morning, and one after lunch about 15 minutes each.  He's in school from 8:30-3:15.  On Mondays he gets a homework folder with 5-10 worksheets to be turned Thursday morning.  He has extra reading homework (that we have not gotten actual instructions on--new books come home, but no new logs, so we just keep handwriting notes on the old one).  In addition the school has started "parent teacher teams for academic success" which is more homework.  We're doing spelling tests and time reading/comprehension testing and send the results back to the teacher.  Ds really likes school, doesn't mind doing his homework or the extra work we do.  I'm glad of that and work to keep my bad attitude away from him.  

When we were touring and I voiced concern about the limited amount of recess they assured us that in 'specials' (art, pe, music, library) the kids get a lot of activity in to burn off energy, but in reality that is one class a day after lunch.  They still go back to home room to do math and science after that.  Ds is thriving so I don't really have a reason to bitch, but I think its over the top and it really makes me wonder what first grade will be like.   His K classroom has tables and the reading rug. No toy kitchens/houses/stores like I remember from K.

I'm not unbiased and having a special needs child in public school is something I struggle with.  

I don't know that I would want dh homeschooling the kids though.  He gets cranky and critical, and we both struggle with social interactions.  I'd certainly be involved, but I work too much to lead a homeschooling front so for now we are relieved that ds is happy and we are making it work.  

[Deleted]

I want to weigh in on the long days.  My Kindergartner (Summer baby, so younger one in his class) gets dropped off at school at 7am so I can get to work, then busses to the YMCA at 2:15 where I sometimes don't get him until after 5.  He was beat the first couple weeks and even fell asleep in the van on the drive home, but after he got into the swing of it, he was fine.  He often is upset when I show up to get him because they were "just starting something really awesome!"

He doesn't get homework because it's a Montessori school, but he WANTS to do homework when the other kids are at the Y (they have homework time from 3-4), so I sent along a Kindy workbook and he does that just for fun.

[chen35]

I don't remember ever having homework, except spelling lists, until I was in 7th grade. I could be mis-remembering. 
My mom told me that my kindergarten teacher was really concerned about me. I guess I was basically failing, whatever that means. By the end of first grade I was reading way ahead of grade level and was fine. I just wasn't ready for the structure in kindergarten. And this was 30 years ago, before it got all crazy. I hate to think what would have happened if kindergarten was then like it is today. Would I have gotten frustrated and decided I didn't like school?

[NastyWoman]

Oped has a background in teaching and is passionate about what she does. I fully support people like Oped homeschooling and believe their children are better for it.

 OTOH, I gave birth to two kids and I still have two but only because I never tried to homeschool. I just don't have the right temperament for it. Even making sure homework was completed could lead to WWIII. So to avoid bloodshed, prison terms, and ugly orange jump suits for me, off to regular school they went.  I am just very glad that kindergarden at that time still meant kindergarden, not first grade with homework added in in disguise.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Gwen never has homework.   She has worksheets she brings home that she can do if she wants to or we can do together, but she's never required to turn them in.   She got a hold of the sight word list from her parent/teacher conference and has been obsessed with mastering all the lists.  

We told her the teacher said she's way ahead of her class, she doesn't have to worry about mastering all the lists but she's determined to do it.

We haven't said a word to her about having to master all of them, neither has her teacher.   She takes after her mother that way which may end up not being a good thing depending on if she pushes it to the extremes like I did.  We'll have to watch that.

[midjd]

Re: long days, it the length of the day or the time they are "on" that matters? 

DD goes to daycare (at a Montessori school) from around 7:30 - 5:00 5x a week. By those standards, school from 8-3 probably wouldn't be too bad. But of course the schedule is much less rigorous at her age. 

I just sort of fell into Montessori because I was scrambling for an infant daycare and they were one of the only ones without a waiting list, but I've been impressed with what I've seen so far (and a little bit jealous of all the awesome projects the elementary kids get to do). 

[Deleted]

Just to be clear my temperament is not patient angel by any figment of the imagination. Its just much easier not to have WWIII when you don't HAVE to do any specific thing and can change the assignment or mode or go outside and scream ... etc. And even then we manage a battle or two on occasion.

And socializing. I had this discussion with mom this fall. I wanted cousin to keep his kids home with me, and everyone kept saying , well, yes, girl.. because girl needs academic help/has academic issues. And I was like boy too... I think it would help him socially. And they were like, how does it help him socially by taking him out of school? and I was all, well, when you aren't spending all your energy keeping it together throughout the day with people you have not chosen to be around and don't really get joy or benefit from being around, then you'd be amazed how much more you feel like interacting in your own time and space with the people who you do choose to be around ...  Anyway. Just another perspective on that one too My kids love that they can do all their preferred learning on their own or in our small group, but then go be as social as they want when all 'that stuff' is taken care of....  But personalities are all different.

I also think that most kids could excel in a variety of environments. Some are just better suited to one or another. I also think this can change based on age or stage. I always said son needed to homeschool, daughter... she would have been fine anywhere, although I definitely see the benefits of her homeschooling. She has talked to me about finishing up at public though. We will see if she makes the actual decision to do so, it will depend on a number of factors.

eta: That wasn't really accurate. Son didn't need to homeschool... he just needed something other than the public school. Homeschool was just the alternative that worked best for us.

[zibazinski]

I taught in public school and attended public school. I was firmly in the camp of no homeschool. We had too many kids show up in 2nd/3rd grade totally unprepared from homeschooling or poor private schooling. Now the situation has changed so much that if I couldn't afford a GOOD private school, I'd figure out a way to homeschool at least until high school if at all possible. My kids really weren't happy until middle school and in magnet programs. Home schooling doesn't have the negativity it used to have either.

[MJ2.0]

Jan 19, 2016 16:09:47 GMT -5 midjd said:

Re: long days, it the length of the day or the time they are "on" that matters? 

DD goes to daycare (at a Montessori school) from around 7:30 - 5:00 5x a week. By those standards, school from 8-3 probably wouldn't be too bad. But of course the schedule is much less rigorous at her age. 

I just sort of fell into Montessori because I was scrambling for an infant daycare and they were one of the only ones without a waiting list, but I've been impressed with what I've seen so far (and a little bit jealous of all the awesome projects the elementary kids get to do). 

I would have LOVED to get DS into a Montessori school, but the bank account said "no".

[zibazinski]

I know. Montessori costs a small fortune or at least it used to.

[cael]

A few thoughts on a couple facets of this: my mother "home schooled" me for kindergarten. A few things about that - she had early childhood and social work education and work experience, so she was probably as qualified or a little more as any Jane schmo off the street for it (and she was a SAH at that point). The overall reason for them doing that was that we lived 35 miles from the Waldorf school she wanted to send me to, and with one car and one income they couldn't justify it for 3 days/week. She was horrified when she took me for K testing as a preschooler and they snooted that I was very bright, but how old was I when I learned to color within the lines? She found the Waldorf school after that, but again it wasn't feasible for me to go for kindergarten. I... don't remember much about that year except being at home a lot. Since we didn't have a second car we didn't go anywhere we could get on the bus (we were living right next to Boston in a moderate sized city at that time). I enjoyed learning and crafts and reading books, but there wasn't much structure that I recall, I also had a toddler brother who probably needed a lot of attention. Re: the K testing, I was always the kid who *wanted* to color within the lines and do things "right" - I was methodical and liked doing things the "right" way. Honestly I probably would've done well in public kindergarten.

Fast forward a year, I went to Waldorf for 1st through 8th grade. It was in my opinion not super suited to me, personally. There wasn't enough structure, we barely got homework. It was a challenge for me to start public "regular" high school, but I was excited as hell to do so - real science classes?! Bells ringing between classes? A locker?!  I think a kid like me would've benefited from the structure and homework and expectation I didn't get at Waldorf that public school would've given me. On the flip side of that, we got plenty of unstructured and outdoor time at Waldorf, so maybe a combination of that plus more structure would've been good for me - who knows how I would've done without that unstructured/outdoor time. Despite feeling like I didn't get as good an academic/structured foundation at Waldorf as I could have, I retained my creativity, some level of abstract thinking and definitely my musical ability/affinity from Waldorf. Kids are all different in how they'll respond to different learning environments, I guess - I feel like I would've thrived with the structure, lots of kids can't deal with that.

Now the cost of Waldorf vs. the level of education/high school prep I feel I got is an entirely different story.. I could never homeschool and I could never afford Waldorf even if I had a kid who I thought would do well there... so public school it will likely be for us.

sorry, that got long.

[Deleted]

I feel very blessed to have a free Montessori option here. It was the first charter in the country and despite having to do the state mandated testing it has stayed pretty true to a pure Montessori philosophy.

[muttleynfelix]

If you have concerns, ask how your school does testing. Below is what DS's teacher wrote about assessments in her classroom.


Soon I will begin administering some of the state assessments as well as district assessments. I know there are many articles, Facebook quotes/articles about kindergarten and testing. Please know that what we do at Bowman Woods is developmentally appropriate and is not stressful. Most of the testing that I do is one-on-one and is done in short amounts of time. For example, the government test (called the FAST test) takes less than 10 minutes to administer. I know I have many different learners in my class and I think about each child before giving the test. If your child needs the test to be broken up into 4 parts on different times or days-I do that. If your child can buzz right through it with no stress, then we do it in one sitting. The test is over things that we do in class (sounding out words, listening for sounds, etc), so nothing should be completely new information. The district assessments are also painless and the kids don’t know that they are assessments. One is a very short writing piece, one consists of reading a book to me and the other is a one-on-one math assessment (I shared this with you at conferences). I break the math test up into parts and do a little at a time. The test is over things like counting by 1’s, counting by 5’s, counting by 10’s, shape recognition, sorting, etc. I do have to say that all the tests that we give in kindergarten definitely give teachers and parents valuable information. It is important to determine where a child needs help or excels, so that we can individualize instruction. Please ask me if you have any questions at all!

[zibazinski]

Jan 20, 2016 9:56:55 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

If you have concerns, ask how your school does testing. Below is what DS's teacher wrote about assessments in her classroom.


Soon I will begin administering some of the state assessments as well as district assessments. I know there are many articles, Facebook quotes/articles about kindergarten and testing. Please know that what we do at Bowman Woods is developmentally appropriate and is not stressful. Most of the testing that I do is one-on-one and is done in short amounts of time. For example, the government test (called the FAST test) takes less than 10 minutes to administer. I know I have many different learners in my class and I think about each child before giving the test. If your child needs the test to be broken up into 4 parts on different times or days-I do that. If your child can buzz right through it with no stress, then we do it in one sitting. The test is over things that we do in class (sounding out words, listening for sounds, etc), so nothing should be completely new information. The district assessments are also painless and the kids don’t know that they are assessments. One is a very short writing piece, one consists of reading a book to me and the other is a one-on-one math assessment (I shared this with you at conferences). I break the math test up into parts and do a little at a time. The test is over things like counting by 1’s, counting by 5’s, counting by 10’s, shape recognition, sorting, etc. I do have to say that all the tests that we give in kindergarten definitely give teachers and parents valuable information. It is important to determine where a child needs help or excels, so that we can individualize instruction. Please ask me if you have any questions at all!

That sounds like heaven 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

We've talked a lot to Gwen's teacher about testing as well.

At the moment I just remember sight words.  From what she told me every kid gets "tested" at the beginning of the year so there is a baseline.   Then how much they should improve is based on where they started at the beginning of the year.  

There are standards so they can determine if a child is significantly behind and inform the parents so an IEP can be worked out.   But there is none of this "Every child needs to be this or else!" attitude that seems to be the theme about education on the boards.   I guess every state/school is different?

[muttleynfelix]

Jan 20, 2016 10:03:34 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

We've talked a lot to Gwen's teacher about testing as well.

At the moment I just remember sight words.  From what she told me every kid gets "tested" at the beginning of the year so there is a baseline.   Then how much they should improve is based on where they started at the beginning of the year.  

There are standards so they can determine if a child is significantly behind and inform the parents so an IEP can be worked out.   But there is none of this "Every child needs to be this or else!" attitude that seems to be the theme about education on the boards.   I guess every state/school is different?

It must be an Iowa thing.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jan 20, 2016 10:09:07 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

Jan 20, 2016 10:03:34 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

We've talked a lot to Gwen's teacher about testing as well.

At the moment I just remember sight words.  From what she told me every kid gets "tested" at the beginning of the year so there is a baseline.   Then how much they should improve is based on where they started at the beginning of the year.  

There are standards so they can determine if a child is significantly behind and inform the parents so an IEP can be worked out.   But there is none of this "Every child needs to be this or else!" attitude that seems to be the theme about education on the boards.   I guess every state/school is different?

It must be an Iowa thing.

I didn't remember till I posted that you now live in Iowa.  

We need to try for a State Fair meet up this year!

[whoisjohngalt]

Well, I sat my kid down last June and gave him a 3.5 hr test (over the course of two days).  He thought it was the "funnest thing ever".

[muttleynfelix]

Jan 20, 2016 9:58:44 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Jan 20, 2016 9:56:55 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

If you have concerns, ask how your school does testing. Below is what DS's teacher wrote about assessments in her classroom.


Soon I will begin administering some of the state assessments as well as district assessments. I know there are many articles, Facebook quotes/articles about kindergarten and testing. Please know that what we do at Bowman Woods is developmentally appropriate and is not stressful. Most of the testing that I do is one-on-one and is done in short amounts of time. For example, the government test (called the FAST test) takes less than 10 minutes to administer. I know I have many different learners in my class and I think about each child before giving the test. If your child needs the test to be broken up into 4 parts on different times or days-I do that. If your child can buzz right through it with no stress, then we do it in one sitting. The test is over things that we do in class (sounding out words, listening for sounds, etc), so nothing should be completely new information. The district assessments are also painless and the kids don’t know that they are assessments. One is a very short writing piece, one consists of reading a book to me and the other is a one-on-one math assessment (I shared this with you at conferences). I break the math test up into parts and do a little at a time. The test is over things like counting by 1’s, counting by 5’s, counting by 10’s, shape recognition, sorting, etc. I do have to say that all the tests that we give in kindergarten definitely give teachers and parents valuable information. It is important to determine where a child needs help or excels, so that we can individualize instruction. Please ask me if you have any questions at all!

That sounds like heaven 

Like I said, I am probably spoiled with DS's teacher and the school in general. There is a huge competition in the district to see who has the most volunteer hours in the school and having that many volunteers really allows the school and teachers to do more in the classroom.

[muttleynfelix]

Jan 20, 2016 10:12:01 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jan 20, 2016 10:09:07 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

It must be an Iowa thing.

I didn't remember till I posted that you now live in Iowa.  

We need to try for a State Fair meet up this year!

Sometimes I forget I live in Iowa. And then I step outside and nearly freeze to death and say yep. I moved up north. Yes, hopefully this summer will be less crazy and we can do a state fair meet up.

[chen35]

Jan 20, 2016 10:14:56 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

Jan 20, 2016 9:58:44 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

That sounds like heaven 

Like I said, I am probably spoiled with DS's teacher and the school in general. There is a huge competition in the district to see who has the most volunteer hours in the school and having that many volunteers really allows the school and teachers to do more in the classroom.

That is pretty awesome! Do you know how that got started?

[muttleynfelix]

Jan 20, 2016 10:24:04 GMT -5 chen35 said:

Jan 20, 2016 10:14:56 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

Like I said, I am probably spoiled with DS's teacher and the school in general. There is a huge competition in the district to see who has the most volunteer hours in the school and having that many volunteers really allows the school and teachers to do more in the classroom.

That is pretty awesome! Do you know how that got started?

No idea. I just know that our elementary school is very proud of the number of volunteer hours and they always want to have the most.