Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Feb 18, 2016 10:31:32 GMT -5
And, some of it is just personality. My other do kids do great in school. They are responsible, get things done , and pretty much do the things i ask them them to do. I don't know if they observed me pressing on their brother or it is just their natures. Either way, it's all good. He will be fine. Yes, it will be a struggle for the next couple years, i wont' kid you. But, over time, it will become apparent to him that it is far easier to just do your work in the first place! As for a job, that isn't a bad thing. And, it will all be sunshine and lollipops for awhile and then it will be a Job. So, not a bad thing to teach some responsibility. But, he has to want to take the job otherwise it is just another thing you are then chasing him about. My older son wanted to work. And, to his credit, he did very well having jobs in High school. It was a good experience for him. But, he wanted to work and enjoyed getting a paycheck. I also let him keep the full amount and it was his do whatever with so that was motivating for him. Yeah, i know, the YM way would be for me to make him start paying rent, but my goal was just to keep pushing him on the right track, lol.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 1:20:17 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2016 10:32:08 GMT -5
It was $10/hour and DS said, "see Mom, I could make almost as much as you without finishing middle school"
I'd say call his bluff. Let him see how far working at McD's goes and how awesome a job it'd be to have for the rest of his life. I'd also make him start paying for his keep, let him see how far $10/hr REALLY goes. Sounds so much like my brother. My brother is finding out that his fantasy life of scooting along at the bottom doesn't match reality. Now that he's found out how far $9/hr actually goes when you don't have your parents to bail you out he's decided maybe he should do something with his life. I'd think $10/hr for a kid whose necessities are provided free of charge could give him the illusion that it doesn't take much to live well. Kids don't always learn the lesson we try to teach them, sometimes they come up with strange ideas we didn't consider beforehand.
|
|
Lizard Queen
Senior Associate
103/2024
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 22:19:13 GMT -5
Posts: 14,659
|
Post by Lizard Queen on Feb 18, 2016 10:34:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I've been to 4 or 5 different counselors in my lifetime. I liked some, but they didn't help much. The last one helped the most because I was really ready to work at it myself.
Anyway, I don't really know anything about raising teens yet, but I do have my own experiences. Right now, I'm taking a computer class--very begrudgingly. I've taken a lot of different ones over the years, and I'm constantly afraid this one is just going to be a waste of time and money. There's a lot of feeling of, "is this even going to ever be relevant in my life?" Plus, it's ridiculously easy for me, since I have so much varied experience here. (The test over 5 chapters took me maybe 10 minutes). I hate it, lag behind the assignments and quizzes, and don't really care about my grade (too much, I can't seem to not care at all). During class, I'm on YMAM--a lot. I imagine this is how teens feel a lot of the time. My only motivation is that hopefully this will finally get me an in with a PT job. Honestly, I can get an A in about any class I choose to, but if I were in your DS's shoes, with the lack of grades, I would probably skate by as much as possible too. When I was in jr/high school, I did find motivation in getting good grades, and I studied for tests because I hated the anxious feeling of not knowing the answers on them. I think I would have just been bored to death most of the time without at least the grades, but that's just me.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 48,103
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 18, 2016 10:36:26 GMT -5
I was thinking charge him "rent" as an exercise. The money can go into an account and he can have it back later.
I was thinking that Cosby episode where Theo was bragging about all the money he had from his job so they did an exercise where Cosby kept skimming off money for expenses and Theo kept thinking he'd be clever and be able to keep more. In the end he had no money left.
I don't know if it would work or not.
And I agree with Shooby if he doesn't want it it'd just be one more thing to chase him around over.
That was just my knee jerk reaction to a response like that. It makes me think of my brother and how he was waxing poetic about being homeless for awhile. He didn't understand me working for "the man" when I could choose to be free and easy.
Now that he's been on the verge of being homeless suddenly it wasn't much fun and maybe he should reconsider his life choices.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 1:20:17 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2016 10:51:22 GMT -5
He did do a project with school last year where he had to "get a job" and keep a budget and such. I started a thread about it because he got 300K in student loans. I thought he got a lot out of that assignment when he was living with two of his friends for years and only able to afford a motorcycle (in MN) for transportation because his student loans were killing him. He gets $10/week allowance right now, but I make him pay me $10/month for his phone and he has to donate $10/month to something. Usually he picks the animal shelter here in town. He has YNAB on his phone and is more anal about entering all his transactions at the POS than I am. I think he should get something like a paper route at least, but McDonalds would be easier. eta: By "easier", I mean for me! The only paper routes he could get are around his Dad's house in town and getting him there at 5am twice a week could be a pain.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 1:20:17 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2016 11:03:16 GMT -5
I'd back off from the "you are running your future" commentary. It's completely understandable from an adult perspective but if he is depressed it will fuel those negative feelings. I think one of the most helpful things we can do as parents is to teach our children to be resilient. We get many chances in life. Have you helped him put in place systems for remembering tasks and completing them? DS has weekly and monthly calendars in his room with reminders to put his library books in his backpack on certain days, etc. Yeah. He tells me I make everything worse by stressing him out. I think getting him organized would be huge. His memory for the mundane day to day things is awful. I mean horrible. I had put a sign up on the door with a list of everything he should check before heading out in the morning (is it band day?, do you have scouts? etc), but it was probably too general. It worked for awhile, but then I think he quit reading it. He was missing his trombone lesson every single week until we put an alarm on his Fitbit. He doesn't miss anymore, so minor win.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,912
|
Post by zibazinski on Feb 18, 2016 11:07:55 GMT -5
The more you say the more I think medical and psych evaluation in order.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 48,103
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 18, 2016 11:12:03 GMT -5
It's not about money, it's about his attitude. The part about "without finishing middle school" part would have pissed me off.
My grandfather had a good career with the county with only a fourth grade education, but those days are LONG gone.
I get he is a teen and they don't think very far into the future. $10/hr sounds like a lot of money to a 14 year old and it's an "easy" job. I think being around his co-workers who have to actually support themselves on that wage may be an eye opener for him.
I can make decent money waiting tables. It was watching people who had no choice but to do that for a living that was an eye opener for me.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Feb 18, 2016 12:14:32 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 1:20:17 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2016 12:35:57 GMT -5
ORDERED THIS!
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 18, 2016 12:45:09 GMT -5
It is so incredibly frustrating. I go from anger to sadness to guilt that this is my fault. I have this kid who since age 3 or 4 has appeared to "have it made". He should be able to just blow them out of the water in school and get into whatever college he wants, but instead he's self-sabotaging and crying woe is me. I just want to shake some sense into him. We only have one adolescent psychiatrist in town and she's booked up for three months out. The school turned in the paperwork for the psychologist yesterday and they said often there's a wait for that too, but the school is stressing it's urgent so hopefully that gets him to the front of the line. I appreciate all the stories about children and siblings with similar behaviors. It helps to know that at least SOME of them turned out ok in the end. What's the status of getting an appointment with an adolescent psychiatrist in the nearest city? It honestly sounds like you need to deal with this sooner than later, and I'd be looking further afield at this point. Small town living can be great, but when you need services, you begin to appreciate the larger cities that have more of them.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 1:20:17 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2016 13:33:53 GMT -5
It is so incredibly frustrating. I go from anger to sadness to guilt that this is my fault. I have this kid who since age 3 or 4 has appeared to "have it made". He should be able to just blow them out of the water in school and get into whatever college he wants, but instead he's self-sabotaging and crying woe is me. I just want to shake some sense into him. We only have one adolescent psychiatrist in town and she's booked up for three months out. The school turned in the paperwork for the psychologist yesterday and they said often there's a wait for that too, but the school is stressing it's urgent so hopefully that gets him to the front of the line. I appreciate all the stories about children and siblings with similar behaviors. It helps to know that at least SOME of them turned out ok in the end. What's the status of getting an appointment with an adolescent psychiatrist in the nearest city? It honestly sounds like you need to deal with this sooner than later, and I'd be looking further afield at this point. Small town living can be great, but when you need services, you begin to appreciate the larger cities that have more of them. Then you get into the problem of how do I get him to appointments? It's bad enough if it's in town. I can take a long lunch and work late to make up the time, but if the appointment is an hour away one way on a weekly schedule, it would be crazy difficult. And now I was just informed I need to start working out of town again starting tomorrow. Swell.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Feb 18, 2016 14:05:42 GMT -5
Why do u think he needs a pyschiatrist?
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Feb 18, 2016 14:10:29 GMT -5
What's the status of getting an appointment with an adolescent psychiatrist in the nearest city? It honestly sounds like you need to deal with this sooner than later, and I'd be looking further afield at this point. Small town living can be great, but when you need services, you begin to appreciate the larger cities that have more of them. Then you get into the problem of how do I get him to appointments? It's bad enough if it's in town. I can take a long lunch and work late to make up the time, but if the appointment is an hour away one way on a weekly schedule, it would be crazy difficult. And now I was just informed I need to start working out of town again starting tomorrow. Swell. Your ex may have to step up to help here. It's important.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 1:20:17 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2016 14:46:08 GMT -5
Then you get into the problem of how do I get him to appointments? It's bad enough if it's in town. I can take a long lunch and work late to make up the time, but if the appointment is an hour away one way on a weekly schedule, it would be crazy difficult. And now I was just informed I need to start working out of town again starting tomorrow. Swell. Your ex may have to step up to help here. It's important. His schedule is a lot crazier than mine. He travels a lot to other sites and hasn't been around much at all the past couple weeks. In March he heads to Thailand for two weeks. I just think we can find somebody local. Maybe not the booked up adolescent psychiatrist (at least not immediately), but there are others. Family Services is coming to the house tonight (of course DS is not going to be there, but at least I'll talk to them) and we'll see what the school can do with the psychologist. That would be ideal because they come to the school.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,912
|
Post by zibazinski on Feb 18, 2016 15:11:08 GMT -5
Any psychologist that works for the school system is not going to necessarily be what you want for your child. I've worked with five over my teaching career. Please don't just rely on them.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 1:20:17 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2016 15:14:50 GMT -5
Any psychologist that works for the school system is not going to necessarily be what you want for your child. I've worked with five over my teaching career. Please don't just rely on them. Well, they don't work for the school. It's the mental health organization in our town and the school refers the kids and provides a time/place in school to work with them, but I'm the one paying the bill. At least I assume so, they took all my insurance info.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,912
|
Post by zibazinski on Feb 18, 2016 15:16:06 GMT -5
Ah, okay. Thank you. That's better. Do ask for their qualification.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Feb 18, 2016 15:24:20 GMT -5
Your ex may have to step up to help here. It's important. His schedule is a lot crazier than mine. He travels a lot to other sites and hasn't been around much at all the past couple weeks. In March he heads to Thailand for two weeks. I just think we can find somebody local. Maybe not the booked up adolescent psychiatrist (at least not immediately), but there are others. Family Services is coming to the house tonight (of course DS is not going to be there, but at least I'll talk to them) and we'll see what the school can do with the psychologist. That would be ideal because they come to the school. This is great! You're in just as much of a quandary as DS! It will be very helpful to you, as well, to have someone to talk to and off of whom to bounce ideas and problems encountered. If it appears a psychiatrist will be needed, you could make an appointment with the one in the city who could then refer your son to the right psychologist in your area and handle the medication end of things (if that's needed) in conjunction with your regular doctor while tracking progress in conjunction with the psychologist. It shouldn't be necessary to travel to the city that often as most psychiatrists don't actually do one-on-one counselling. They refer it.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,777
|
Post by thyme4change on Feb 18, 2016 16:17:32 GMT -5
I just read this from beginning to end.
First, absolutely get a full work up. Mental and physical.
Second, if the best care he can get is an hour away, consider using FMLA to get him there. I know money is tight, but if I could guarantee vast improvement for $5,000, you would probably find money somewhere.
Third, you could fully take off a few months and homeschool him until he completes the 8th grade requirements. This would give time for Dr appointments and whatever, and would temporarily reduce the "schedule stress" that always rolls downhill.
Fourth, I like the idea of an elimination diet.
I know some of these suggestions seem extreme, but that will send him the message that he is causing an extreme situation.
(I ask this as a busy working Mom, not a judgemental thing) Do you ever get enough quiet time to just sit and listen to him talk? If you are able to use some FMLA time, you might spend some time in the car with just him, or have some time at home when things are relaxed and comfortable. It might get him to say something he doesn't even know he is thinking. Unfortunately, you might have to sit through 45 minutes about video games or something, but maybe you can be his rock. His big silent, never moving solid rock in the middle of his stormy ocean. Always there. Never moving. Never judging. Just something he can hold onto when the waters get rough.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Feb 18, 2016 18:42:51 GMT -5
Only thing I'd add is that we sometimes don't consider mental health as important as physical health because we can't see it and it's not tangible. But as you found out with your X2, mental health issues can be just as devastating as physical health issues. If your son had a badly broken leg, you probably wouldn't be OK with waiting 3 months to see a doc about it, you'd do what it took to figure out how to get him to the doc. Your son's emotional health situation appears to be the emotional health equivalent of a broken leg. You can't see it, and there's no tangible break, but something is seriously wrong. It's worth doing whatever it takes - between both you and his dad, no matter who has what crazy schedule - to get your son evaluated by a mental health professional (and maybe more than one) and get treatment started.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 1:20:17 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2016 20:25:24 GMT -5
I guess I'm not thinking it's quite as desperate that you all do. I mean he's been like this his entire life and yeah...it's escalating and time to figure out what is going on, but not rush him to the ER kind of deal. Maybe I'm wrong (it happens a lot). I met with Family Services today and filled out massive amounts of paperwork as she took the history. She's going to help with getting him the "School Link" service and she said it's a really great program because the psychologist has access to all the teachers and can watch him in the social setting where his problems are (school), where as when they're in the office they'd be dealing with a different kid. He is not the same at all one on one with adults. Taking a leave of absence would just not happen, even if I could afford it they would never grant it. Honestly, 24 years with this company and I have never known being this flooded. We're short 200 people and I don't even get weekends off anymore. If it wasn't for the kids I'd be working 80 hours a week.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Feb 18, 2016 21:06:53 GMT -5
I guess I'm not thinking it's quite as desperate that you all do. I mean he's been like this his entire life and yeah...it's escalating and time to figure out what is going on, but not rush him to the ER kind of deal. We have no way of knowing if it's a "rush him to the ER kind of deal", but what you're posting sounds like it has the potential to be very serious. Not a "wait 3 months and see" thing.
It's hard to gauge how bad things are if you've been living in them for a while. Like the old saying about how you can boil a frog if you just gradually turn up the heat; the frog doesn't detect any major change so never hops out as the water gets hotter.
But to me - just someone on the outside - some of what you're posting wouldn't necessarily make me say rush to the ER, but it would say this is serious and I'd be wanting that help to get started within a week or two even if that meant a long drive or Ninja schedule reorganizing. His behavior has steadily gotten worse to the point where he's in trouble daily. He's talking about suicide. He doesn't appear able to control his actions or outbursts. You don't know what to do... all this adds up to something that you want to get addressed - or at least start getting addressed - now.
The school arrangement and observer sounds potentially promising, but it will take longer than you think and may or may not be all that valuable. They will be most concerned with his disruptiveness, not necessarily the other issues. You want your own mental health professionals doing their own work as well.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,777
|
Post by thyme4change on Feb 18, 2016 21:29:52 GMT -5
Earlier you said it was escalating in both time and severity. Do you have a point in mind where it will be so bad that you will get aggressive?
If you need FMLA, they can't deny it.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 1:20:17 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2016 21:54:11 GMT -5
I am doing something. I don't get why people are saying I'm not. Our FMLA handbook says you can use it for a family member if they have a serious health condition that makes them unable to work/go to school and need you there for assistance. I don't think asking for it to homeschool because my kid is acting up in class would hold water. Plus, there is no way we wouldn't kill each other if I tried to do that anyhow.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 1:20:17 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2016 22:07:49 GMT -5
|
|
souldoubt
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 11:57:14 GMT -5
Posts: 2,757
|
Post by souldoubt on Feb 18, 2016 22:49:53 GMT -5
Multiple friends of mine ended up in psych wards years ago. The "rush them to the ER/psych ward" moment was when the authorities had to get involved for the safety of their family or when they were a danger to themselves. One of my cousins didn't deal with things like most people do when she was a kid and when she'd have a breakdown she'd say things like "maybe I should just kill myself." My aunt and uncle knew she had a problem (as did friends of ours who met her briefly) but they didn't help her like they could and should have always assuming she'd grow out of it. She ended up going through a phase where she had run ins with the law and abused drugs which eventually landed her in rehab and that was the best possible outcome at that point. Had her parents not had the financial means to bail her out and get her help her life would be on a far different path today. I'm not a mental health expert and I have no idea where your son is at on that spectrum but point is the oh shit moments are generally when it's too late. Good luck.
|
|
finnime
Junior Associate
Be kind. Everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 7:14:35 GMT -5
Posts: 8,017
|
Post by finnime on Feb 18, 2016 23:00:00 GMT -5
This sounds like a promising start, but I agree with milee and @anne81. Based on my own experiences, I would imagine you have a lot of second guessing and questions about how bad things are really, and how urgent. None of us know, of course. But your comments on your DS are awfully familiar to me. One key problem teens face, too, is the impulsiveness with which they can do extremely dangerous and stupid things - when they've never shown that side before. Also, persistent irritability is a hallmark of adolescent depression. Being a teen and floundering psychologically can be suddenly volatile. Wishing for the best for you all.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Feb 19, 2016 7:56:20 GMT -5
I'd back off from the "you are running your future" commentary. It's completely understandable from an adult perspective but if he is depressed it will fuel those negative feelings. I think one of the most helpful things we can do as parents is to teach our children to be resilient. We get many chances in life. Have you helped him put in place systems for remembering tasks and completing them? DS has weekly and monthly calendars in his room with reminders to put his library books in his backpack on certain days, etc. Yeah. He tells me I make everything worse by stressing him out. I think getting him organized would be huge. His memory for the mundane day to day things is awful. I mean horrible. I had put a sign up on the door with a list of everything he should check before heading out in the morning (is it band day?, do you have scouts? etc), but it was probably too general. It worked for awhile, but then I think he quit reading it. He was missing his trombone lesson every single week until we put an alarm on his Fitbit. He doesn't miss anymore, so minor win. Does he remember what is important to HIM? My son "couldn't remember" to do his assignments, bring homework home, blah, blah. But, funny, he could remember what time football practice was or what time to meet up with his friends. Or what time he had to work, etc. So, personally, I am not sure there is anything 'pyschiatric" in what you are describing. Obviously, you are mom and if you feel he needs evaluated, then by all means. However, i would opt for Talk Therapy rather than starting on any potent pills at such a critical time in one's brain development. I would take other measures BEFORE introducing medication. However, i am not a pyschiatrist so that is just a personal opinion and you should proceed in the manner you think is best for your child.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 1:20:17 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2016 7:56:22 GMT -5
So, my son is now on the radar of social services. He's been getting in trouble increasingly at school with his annoying, obnoxious behavior. School and myself have both been upping the punishment and severity, but now in his anger when he gets in trouble he's started saying things like he wishes he was dead which has of course got all kinds of attention. It's happening Every. Single. Day. and I just don't know what to do anymore. This last month has been exhausting. They called again today. Gymnastics unit in phy-ed (guaranteed issue). Teacher let him sit out, but he was causing problems distracting people or something...not sure and the teacher was going to write him a Map ticket (minor), but because it's Sam, it's now an instant escalation to office referral. He was irate and got another day of in-school suspension. The principal says she's so worried about him because he seems convinced everyone hates him. I just don't get it. He acts in a way that everyone doesn't like, gets bad reaction and continues to do that. They're giving me the paperwork to have a mental health worker come in and work with him during the day. I just don't know what to do with him anymore. The bolded lines are some of the things that I think making some posters feel this situation is potentially very serious. You never know what's really going on in a person's head. The words "I wish I were dead" doesn't pass through a person's lips unless the thought formed in their mind first. Of course, people don't truly mean everything they say, but if someone says something like this more than once on different occasions, I think that chances are good that on some level, they mean it. If someone told me they wish I were dead every time we had a disagreement, it would make me concerned that one disagreement too many and they might try to make their wish come true. What's the difference? If it turns out that Sam's issues really are very serious, it just might turn your life upside down trying to help him. At the same time I was dealing with my son's issues, I was taking my daughter to doctors and for tests to try to find out why she kept having excruciating pains in her side. Turned out she had a congenital kidney defect and needed inpatient surgery to fix it, sooner rather than later. My whole world was upside down, but both of my kids were unhealthy (in different ways of course) and getting them better was my priority. Of course I still needed a job, and I tried to do right by my employer as much as I could during all that, but if I needed to miss days of work or ask to change my work schedule or work less than 8hrs/day for a while so I wouldn't miss so many full days of work (I did all that at one point or another during those months), that's just what I had to do. In 18 years of working there, that was the only time I've been a "problem" employee.
|
|