How to raise the price of retail gasoline with falling

[Value Buy]

prices for crude.
Exxon Mobil has announced they are shutting down a "small refinery" in Texas for ninety days at the beginning of April.

April. The very beginning of the summer driving season when there is more demand for gasoline.

www.reuters.com/article/us-refinery-operations-exxon-mobil-beaum-idUSKCN0UR2JK20160113

Look for another refinery to do the same thing. Guarenteed "shortages" to guarentee higher prices.
Refinery maintenance is usually scheduled well before the spring, to make sure refineries are producing gasoline when needed.

[dondub]

Are you implying that the big oil companies manipulate prices with these shenanigans? But, but, what about the 'free market'?

[Value Buy]

If you have followed my rants over the years about big oil, you would know I hate them.
They would suck your last penny out of you if possible.




BUT, I admit to owning XOM and CVX in the portfolio.

[ArchietheDragon]

Jan 13, 2016 14:40:28 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

If you have followed my rants over the years about big oil, you would know I hate them.
They would suck your last penny out of you if possible.




BUT, I admit to owning XOM and CVX in the portfolio.

If you can't stop them, join them. 

[Value Buy]

Jan 13, 2016 14:41:03 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Jan 13, 2016 14:40:28 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

If you have followed my rants over the years about big oil, you would know I hate them.
They would suck your last penny out of you if possible.




BUT, I admit to owning XOM and CVX in the portfolio.

If you can't stop them, join them. 

I also own stock in my electric and natural gas utility that services our part of the state. Can't stop them from raising the darn rates, but at least they pay some of it back to me

[Value Buy]

Jan 13, 2016 14:47:45 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

those dirty, rotten, no good, lousy sumbiches!

Well I hope that at least my XOM goes up, it hasn't been a great year for that........

It is up today, and for no apparent reason.
Way off last year's high. DRIP is great for it right now.

[marvholly]

In my part of the woods (suburban Chicago) EVERY gol darn taxing body (city, county, state) just raises their tax on gasoline.

[gregintenn]

Tennessee has determined this to be a good time to push a gas tax increase.

[Value Buy]

Just about every state assembly is thinking this.
Citizens will only pay another penny or two a gallon and gas is so cheap, and stick it to the citizens.
Fast forward a year when gas is $4 a gallon, the tax will still be on the gallon of gas.

[zibazinski]

Yup. There's still a gas surcharge on a garage door repair I had done. When I pointed out gas was cheap it was begrudgingly removed from my bill.

[Value Buy]

Jan 14, 2016 9:04:51 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Yup. There's still a gas surcharge on a garage door repair I had done. When I pointed out gas was cheap it was begrudgingly removed from my bill.

You have to be kidding.
Companies still using a gasoline surcharge on their bills?
Obscene.
They should be giving a 10% discount on fuel useage.
All the lawn cutting companies have to be making money hand over fist these days.

[gregintenn]

Jan 14, 2016 9:20:21 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Well, I'll be the wet and smelly sock on the party.

The gas tax has fallen way behind revenue needs to maintain the roads for a long time now, and the politicians haven't had the guts to either raise it, or raise the needed revenue some other way.

It makes perfect sense to raise the gas tax now, at least so that adjusted for inflation it is at the level that it was 25 years ago.

Why is that, Dem? Is it because the government keeps pushing more and more fuel efficiency standards? Is it because we now pizz away nearly as much money on environmental concerns and erosion prevention measures as it takes to build roads? Or is it because the money is grossly mismanaged?

You believe government is the solution to every problem, I believe it is the creator of them.

[Value Buy]

Jan 14, 2016 9:20:21 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Well, I'll be the wet and smelly sock on the party.

The gas tax has fallen way behind revenue needs to maintain the roads for a long time now, and the politicians haven't had the guts to either raise it, or raise the needed revenue some other way.

It makes perfect sense to raise the gas tax now, at least so that adjusted for inflation it is at the level that it was 25 years ago.

Using your theory, the federal tax on a gallon of gasoline is now a higher percent of the cost of a gallon of gasoline now than it was five or ten years ago.

Where I blow  a gasket is where they use the Federal and state tax to build bike paths that are rarily used (think dead of winter) instead of repairing the road system.

[resolution]

The gas tax hasn't increased since 1993, but inflation has gone up by 64%. I don't know how much the cost to maintain roads has gone up but I imagine it would be close to the inflation rate.

ETA it's 18.4 cents per gallon, so its not percentage based and doesn't adjust with inflation.

[gregintenn]

Jan 14, 2016 10:28:09 GMT -5 resolution said:

The gas tax hasn't increased since 1993, but inflation has gone up by 64%. I don't know how much the cost to maintain roads has gone up but I imagine it would be close to the inflation rate.

ETA it's 18.4 cents per gallon, so its not percentage based and doesn't adjust with inflation.

Don't you suppose there are more cars on the road than in 1993? If not, why would we need to build new roads? Maintenance on existing ones isn't nearly as expensive as new construction.

How much is enough? We can't just continually keep raising taxes, because we are about to the point of killing the goose that lays the golden egg. Ever hear of the point of diminishing returns?

[resolution]

Jan 14, 2016 10:32:27 GMT -5 gregintenn said:

Jan 14, 2016 10:28:09 GMT -5 resolution said:

The gas tax hasn't increased since 1993, but inflation has gone up by 64%. I don't know how much the cost to maintain roads has gone up but I imagine it would be close to the inflation rate.

ETA it's 18.4 cents per gallon, so its not percentage based and doesn't adjust with inflation.

Don't you suppose there are more cars on the road than in 1993? If not, why would we need to build new roads? Maintenance on existing ones isn't nearly as expensive as new construction.

How much is enough? We can't just continually keep raising taxes, because we are about to the point of killing the goose that lays the golden egg. Ever hear of the point of diminishing returns?

I expect that their are more cars, but the fund has still been bankrupt for over a decade and being bailed out by transferring funding from other sources. I know a big argument against mass transit is that the riders don't pay the full cost, and the same thing is happening with the highways which are now funded by the US Treasury.

www.wsj.com/articles/congress-strikes-compromise-on-5-year-highway-bill-1449001406

[Value Buy]

It would be an increase in a tax on consumers who drive cars.
I think we also know long haul truckers with vastly over weight trailers are a large part of the problem.

[resolution]

If they raised the regular gas tax they would need to raise the diesel tax too, so that the truckers would pay their fair share.

[gregintenn]

Jan 14, 2016 10:52:45 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Jan 14, 2016 10:16:47 GMT -5 gregintenn said:

Why is that, Dem? Is it because the government keeps pushing more and more fuel efficiency standards? Is it because we now pizz away nearly as much money on environmental concerns and erosion prevention measures as it takes to build roads? Or is it because the money is grossly mismanaged?

You believe government is the solution to every problem, I believe it is the creator of them.

Just exactly what I expected for a response. 

A reflexive negative reaction despite the common sense of the proposition.  You know, if you follow events at all and I know you do, that our infrastructure is in need of upkeep, and that our highway revenues have been lagging considerably because the sources have not kept pace. (putting it mildly) 

This is not an increase or a change, it is just an effort to stay even

So the common sense thing to always do is to raise taxes?

[gregintenn]

Jan 14, 2016 11:21:01 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Always?  Of course not, it depends on the issue.  In this case it makes sense.  And it's actually not a tax increase in this case either- it is resetting the level to what it was.

If you add to the current gasoline tax, you've increased taxes.

Do libs not own calculators?

[gregintenn]

It would add to the cost of a tank of gas, and ergo, be a tax increase.

[973beachbum]

Where do people live that they don't have roads and bridges?

Where I live bridges only get refurbished or replaced when they start crumbling down on people.  Of the ones that haven't be redone, which I think there are 16?, all of them are considered structurally defecient.  Most of the roads aren't much better. 

I said a while ago that the gas tax has to be upped to actually meet the needs of road and bridge repair.  I know what I want isn't really a priority for the gov but isn't safe and up kept infrastructure the bare bones of what Gov should do??

www.njspotlight.com/stories/15/06/17/crumbling-roadway-in-nj-stands-as-symbol-of-nationwide-infrastructure-crisis/

[gregintenn]

Jan 14, 2016 14:12:50 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

Where do people live that they don't have roads and bridges?

Where I live bridges only get refurbished or replaced when they start crumbling down on people.  Of the ones that haven't be redone, which I think there are 16?, all of them are considered structurally defecient.  Most of the roads aren't much better. 

I said a while ago that the gas tax has to be upped to actually meet the needs of road and bridge repair.  I know what I want isn't really a priority for the gov but isn't safe and up kept infrastructure the bare bones of what Gov should do??

www.njspotlight.com/stories/15/06/17/crumbling-roadway-in-nj-stands-as-symbol-of-nationwide-infrastructure-crisis/

The money is already there. It's being misused.

[dondub]

please provide a link for that assertion. Most of us probably feel our roads and bridges infrastructure is woefully underfunded. Find us the money Glen.

[gregintenn]

Jan 14, 2016 19:18:58 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Jan 14, 2016 15:21:57 GMT -5 gregintenn said:

The money is already there. It's being misused.

Well the money isn't really there, unless your argument is that they should be building the roads more cost effectively, in which case I suppose you could argue your point.

But, there is other money.  We could bring some troops home from Korea and Europe, mothball a few carriers, retire a couple of army divisions, and raise some cash for the roads.  We could even have the army engineers build 'em.

I can only speak for Tennessee, but in our case, the money IS really there. We don't ever let a project until it is fully funded in advance.

The rest of your post is spot on sir.

[973beachbum]

Jan 14, 2016 20:33:38 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Likewise in Maine.  Deficits are unconstitutional. The problem is that they are way behind on keeping up with the roads and bridges that need to be maintained because the money isn't there.

I don't have the time or energy to find it again but I will restate that almost all funding for roads and bridges, including state and county roads, comes from the federal government.  So saying your state doesn't run a deficit to build a bridge is about the same as saying your state doesn't run a deficit to fund an air craft carrier.

PS where I live, and work, the hwys are all funded by the federal gov.  The county roads and a good chunk of the local roads are all funded by the USDA.

[973beachbum]

Dem that is my main job's bread and butter and I promise you the local towns and counties are fantastic at submitting the grants to get the small projects like local roads paid for by grants from the USDA.  Like most people I always assumed my local tax dollars paid for the local streets and roads like the one I live on.  When I started working there though it was a real I opener.  The reality is the towns may do a few small projects they pay for themself the vast majority are paid for with grants from the fed and to a smaller extent the states.

I will say though that the majority of state funded projects come from state hwys that have their own funding like toll roads so I am not sure that exactly counts.

It just would have never occurred to me that my roads in NJ would be funded by the dept of agriculture.

[fairlycrazy23]

I wonder how hard it is to open a new refinery. I know there have been a few new ones, but the last new one of any significant size was late 70's I think.
And are all refineries owned by big oil? Or are there independent operators, companies that just refine oil and don't extract it?
 

[gregintenn]

Jan 15, 2016 12:39:59 GMT -5 fairlycrazy23 said:

I wonder how hard it is to open a new refinery. I know there have been a few new ones, but the last new one of any significant size was late 70's I think.
And are all refineries owned by big oil? Or are there independent operators, companies that just refine oil and don't extract it?
 

I read a while back, but do not have a link to the story, that the current process would take something like 83 years, barring any problems.

[dondub]

There is so much gasoline the refiners have been exporting it. I believe in 2014 it was the #1 American export.