Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 3, 2015 17:03:41 GMT -5
Would it be possible to sit down with mediation? Rather than going right for the attack dog attorneys, could things calm down a little where they can have a rational discussion before doing battle and handing half of their assets over to attorneys?
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Post by mojothehelpermonkey on Dec 3, 2015 17:21:01 GMT -5
she didn't know for sure about the affair when he said that. My DH broke the news to her today... which took her from sadness to fury. If it were me... He would have gotten a junk punch big enough to take him out of commission with the mistress for a while. Yet, since I am removed from the situation, I can calmly ask my husband not to lay his father out in the drive way if he comes by (since that is what he said he wanted to do) and wouldn't you know... the new woman is like 8 years older than DH. YIKES. and the daughter of a family friend. It is so cliche it is laughable. I certainly would prefer not to be in this position. but here i am ... fielding questions and trying to do research. But I will do what I am asked... unless it gets to be too much. When I skimmed through this I thought that said that the new woman was 8 years older than your FIL, and I thought that was an interesting twist. Then I kept reading and realized what it actually said. Same old cliche, indeed. I am sorry your family is going through this, and I think it is kind of you to help your MIL research her options.
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Sharon
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Post by Sharon on Dec 3, 2015 17:26:31 GMT -5
It would seem like for the short term that your MIL needs to know what bills need to be paid and how they are going to be paid. She will also need to know how her day to day expenses will be met (groceries etc). Can you DH help her sit down and make a list of utilities etc that are at the home, possible insurance policies that may be due etc?
This will give your MIL a sense of stability and then maybe she can start thinking of future. I think for right now she needs to know that her every day things will be taken care of and not have to worry about the electricity being turned off.
Even if the divorce doesn't go through it would be good for her to know these things and not be so dependent on the FIL,
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Dec 3, 2015 17:45:00 GMT -5
It would seem like for the short term that your MIL needs to know what bills need to be paid and how they are going to be paid. She will also need to know how her day to day expenses will be met (groceries etc). Can you DH help her sit down and make a list of utilities etc that are at the home, possible insurance policies that may be due etc? This will give your MIL a sense of stability and then maybe she can start thinking of future. I think for right now she needs to know that her every day things will be taken care of and not have to worry about the electricity being turned off. Even if the divorce doesn't go through it would be good for her to know these things and not be so dependent on the FIL, i didn't even think of this! such a smart idea. thanks and thanks everyone... lots of helpful tips here!
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Dec 3, 2015 17:52:37 GMT -5
What are the ages of the separated people? 65 y.o. is medicare age.
If she decides to be legally separated to keep the insurance going, dumbass needs to know there is no coming home. No coming back.
Financial offense is needed. A financial inventory.
She needs to get her name off the credit cards. This might require a zero balance. I don't know.
A bank account in her own name.
If it's set up for online banking, she might be able to electronically transfer enough money to keep her going. The titles on vehicles need to be looked at and changed as well as the insurance.
Where is the deed to the property; and how are the names shown? The title insurance document. If there is a mortgage, the bank needs to know. It's not unheard of for a 2nd mortgage to be taken out by the philanderer.
Find out if infidelity is a chargeable offense in their state. In mine it is. But there has to be proof. I had a visit with my financial planner after some crazy talk I overheard. For any large amount of money being taken out of our joint account, there is a face to face. No over the phone moves.
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Sharon
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Post by Sharon on Dec 3, 2015 18:34:37 GMT -5
My parents have lived apart for many years. They both still come to all major holidays, birthdays etc. Dad still covers Mom on his insurance, health and car, cell phone. He gives her money every month for whatever else she may need. He has an account set up at the mechanics and covers her car repairs. Mom has her small retirement account and SS, the house is paid for.
This is just what they have chosen to do because it works for them. There is no girlfriend involved (if there is no one knows about it at all). They separated in their 60's and are now in their mid 70's.
I wish they would do some estate planning but that is a whole nuther discussion.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 3, 2015 18:42:09 GMT -5
My parents have lived apart for many years. They both still come to all major holidays, birthdays etc. Dad still covers Mom on his insurance, health and car, cell phone. He gives her money every month for whatever else she may need. He has an account set up at the mechanics and covers her car repairs. Mom has her small retirement account and SS, the house is paid for. This is just what they have chosen to do because it works for them. There is no girlfriend involved (if there is no one knows about it at all). They separated in their 60's and are now in their mid 70's. I wish they would do some estate planning but that is a whole nuther discussion. I know a lot of old Haitian couples like that including one of my wife aunts and her husband. What I have seen is for those couples along the years have become friends/roommates and the fire is gone. There is no fighting, no boyfriend or girlfriend, and they are still quite civil ... They just no longer wish to be with that person as in the same house but have a sense of duty to the each other : all the years invested and what not. I can see my mom and my stepdad doing that... Heck my mom has said it many times. At her age she doesn't care for a divorce (and my stepdad feels the same way) they will just remain married because it is more convenient to do so and remain civil towards each other. They are more than capable a of supporting themselves and they do not hate each other... So it is a matter of convenience than anything else; the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know even if you are not sleeping with that devil anymore.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 3, 2015 18:45:03 GMT -5
... the new woman is like 8 years older than DH. ... My "step-mother" is about 6 months older than my older sister and 3 years older than I am. When she and my father were getting married she was 28. I asked Dear Old Dad if he wanted me to have my daughters call her "Grandma". My father just gave me a look and walked off.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Dec 3, 2015 18:46:43 GMT -5
He can take the books, but he's going to have to declare every cent of his income and every asset they jointly own at the divorce proceedings. She'll most likely be entitled to half. If he lies about the money, he could end up in contempt of court and in the pokey. It also wouldn't shock me if he doesn't try and come crawling back once he realises that his standard of living is going to change dramatically. Because not only do I think the MIL will get half of everything given how long they've been married, but I also think MIL will get alimony until she can draw in her husbands full SS and until she qualifies for Medicare. But, I also think this situation is fresh for the MIL. I hope for her sake that she doesn't change her mind about divorcing him in a few weeks or months. Once the initial shock has worn off. Because the FIL has shown his lack of character. Who walks on his wife of decades for another woman, with no warning, and a few weeks before Xmas. There were a million better ways to handle this situation. The way it's been handled just demonstrated what a selfish douche the FIL really is.
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plugginaway22
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Post by plugginaway22 on Dec 3, 2015 18:47:18 GMT -5
Sorry, but hahahahah. That must be hard.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Dec 3, 2015 19:45:43 GMT -5
Can she track down all of their joint accounts, set up online access so she can get a feel for what there is? Like someone else said, transfer some of the money into her own account. I guess you don't really know about people, but I would be concerned that he's already stashed some of the funds, since he's been up-to-no-good for a while.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Dec 3, 2015 19:58:01 GMT -5
Basically she needs the book that he took and a crash course on what it means.
In an ideal world, he'd be making a copy of that book with a few passwords redacted and handing it over to her before a lawyer forces him to do so. Handing over copies of the records is extremely cheap compared to having extra account statements generated and sent to the former spouse and/or a lawyer.
On the other hand, I can't really blame him for taking all the account information with him. Leaving it all behind with a hurting spouse isn't smart. (That's a good way to have records destroyed, passwords changed, or find all one's retirement accounts invested in high-expense funds in a single sector.) Making a redacted copy before leaving is pretty tricky and unlikely to be appreciated. I'm sure that your MIL would have interpreted such a move as an additional betrayal.
I do hope that your FIL isn't under the delusion that he can force a better deal by withholding financial information.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Dec 3, 2015 20:03:35 GMT -5
... the new woman is like 8 years older than DH. ... My "step-mother" is about 6 months older than my older sister and 3 years older than I am. When she and my father were getting married she was 28. I asked Dear Old Dad if he wanted me to have my daughters call her "Grandma". My father just gave me a look and walked off. I have a 60ish GF who recently married. She became a mother and grandma in one ceremony. She's way cool with being called grandma without all the other work involved.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Dec 3, 2015 20:16:17 GMT -5
I'm so sorry. For anybody else out there, never let one spouse handle all the financial information. This is why.
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honeysalt
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Post by honeysalt on Dec 3, 2015 21:05:34 GMT -5
Your MIL needs to see a therapist, right away because:
1. She is understandably furious. While a natural response, it is not a emotional place where people make logical and sound decisions from.
2. If she doesn't see a therapist, she will use her lawyer as a therapist. Her lawyer will be a very bad and expensive way to get the therapy she needs.
3. She is trying to rely on her children for emotional support in an issue that involves both of their parents. While this is natural, it isn't healthy. I don't let my mother complain to me about my father. If they were to divorce, my stance would be the same. She needs the emotional support of an impartial professional, not the highly emotional responses of her children, who are going through their own betrayal and grief.
4. In order to find peace and freedom, she is going to have to take responsibility for not taking proper care of herself and responsibility for her financial situation. Not working while not having any knowledge of, or access to her finances is irresponsible.
5. She has only known about for a day, yet she is contemplating making a decision as big as divorce. This speaks to an impulsive and highly emotional state of mind. Again, understandable. Again, not something her children are equipped to help her work through to make good choices for her future.
6. Watch Divorce Corp on Netflix. Family court is the last place anyone wants to be unless they are a family lawyer. Going through a vengeful and emotional divorce could be a huge win for their attorneys, but it could also leave your both your MIL and FIL in a horrible financial situation.
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justme
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Post by justme on Dec 3, 2015 22:48:22 GMT -5
So if he's amicable I'd be sweet as pie and try to get a post nup separation settlement signed by him. Ya know, he pays for her insurance, she gets half pension and retirement. Half of assets. Alimony from him to cover costs of the house. Ya know, a nice easy way for him to go about with new hottie.
No idea if it's legally but oh I'd try. But I'm a little evil.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Dec 3, 2015 22:58:54 GMT -5
He can take the books, but he's going to have to declare every cent of his income and every asset they jointly own at the divorce proceedings. She'll most likely be entitled to half. If he lies about the money, he could end up in contempt of court and in the pokey. It also wouldn't shock me if he doesn't try and come crawling back once he realises that his standard of living is going to change dramatically. Because not only do I think the MIL will get half of everything given how long they've been married, but I also think MIL will get alimony until she can draw in her husbands full SS and until she qualifies for Medicare. But, I also think this situation is fresh for the MIL. I hope for her sake that she doesn't change her mind about divorcing him in a few weeks or months. Once the initial shock has worn off. Because the FIL has shown his lack of character. Who walks on his wife of decades for another woman, with no warning, and a few weeks before Xmas. There were a million better ways to handle this situation. The way it's been handled just demonstrated what a selfish douche the FIL really is. FiL doesn't know that MIL knows about the other woman. He didn't tell her but DH found out who it was... turns out that she lives in a shity apartment and isn't terribly financially secure. I have actually met her... she was the shampoo girl at the place my DH got his hair cut for most of his life. DH told her and MIL went from "what did I do wrong" and being a crying mess to being Angry and trying to find out her options and come to grips with living on her own. FIL is a spender. MIL isn't... my guess is that he wants to stay married because otherwise, she'd likely get half of their assets plus alimony. So if they stay married, he comes out ahead. Divorce and she gets much more. Apparently she is meeting him tomorrow to talk. I suggested to DH that she move someone in to an account in just her name and maybe get a cc in her name. She's been beating herself up about letting him take care of the big financial decisions. She pays the regular household bills, but he has all the accounts, savings, retirement, etc. She seems to have her head in it and is getting her plan together. Sent from my SM-G920T using proboards
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Dec 3, 2015 23:01:51 GMT -5
So if he's amicable I'd be sweet as pie and try to get a post nup separation settlement signed by him. Ya know, he pays for her insurance, she gets half pension and retirement. Half of assets. Alimony from him to cover costs of the house. Ya know, a nice easy way for him to go about with new hottie. No idea if it's legally but oh I'd try. But I'm a little evil. That's what I said to DH... if she doesn't pursue divorce, get any financial agreement in writing. Meet with a lawyer and see what has to be done to make it binding. I certainly wouldn't "trust" him to stand by his word... because HELLO! Sent from my SM-G920T using proboards
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Dec 4, 2015 0:50:00 GMT -5
She also needs to find all the invisible assets like accrued vacation and sick leave it can be worth thousands and half hers. Retirement accounts not yet vested or life insurance cash surrender value, lots of little assets. He will be angry when he finds she isn't rolling over and allowing him to be in charge of the divorce. She needs to take the financial stuff seriously and not mix it with the emotional stuff. Make notes of questions for the Attorney not talk to them about emotional things, notes will make sure she doesn't forget to ask the questions she has about money.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2015 1:17:11 GMT -5
I'm so sorry. For anybody else out there, never let one spouse handle all the financial information. This is why. Well, DH has MS and can't remember from one day to the next so I handle all the financial information. I do let him know every month what the balance in his checking account is and I have the information written somewhere so if anything should happen to me, my sister and BIL can help him with what he needs to know as he is completely computer illiterate, BY CHOICE. His own family, yeah, not happening. Although I might have a talk with his nephew at the next family get-together so he can look out for him. They adore each other so I think it will be ok.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Dec 4, 2015 1:56:49 GMT -5
I'm so sorry. For anybody else out there, never let one spouse handle all the financial information. This is why. Well, DH has MS and can't remember from one day to the next so I handle all the financial information. I do let him know every month what the balance in his checking account is and I have the information written somewhere so if anything should happen to me, my sister and BIL can help him with what he needs to know as he is completely computer illiterate, BY CHOICE. His own family, yeah, not happening. Although I might have a talk with his nephew at the next family get-together so he can look out for him. They adore each other so I think it will be ok. Dad handled all the money until he was old, mom worked at the post office so he had her open a credit union account. Then he taught her to buy CDs and would gift her large amounts of money to buy CDs. That way when she hit the FDIC or whatever max she could ask him about it. When he died she knew where all the money was and was used to buying CDs but she still hated being in charge of her own money. She didn't want to buy CDs because she might forget when they were over. My brother offered to keep track and remind her but she remembered they send you mail. She would have freaked out if dad didn't teach her to deal with money before he died. Then when she was over 80 she took up investing in stocks because CDs didn't pay much. Even without divorce everyone should know how to deal with money. I handle mine because I am alone but keep a list of all my accounts and passwords on a flash drive so if I die my nephew can access everything.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 4, 2015 5:54:27 GMT -5
im reeling over the fact that your dh told his mom about the affair. Ouch
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Dec 4, 2015 7:34:18 GMT -5
I'm relieved that she knows how to pay the utilities.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Dec 4, 2015 7:58:52 GMT -5
The fact that he took the book with all the financials makes me incredibly suspicious. If he doesn't bring the book back and let her take a copy from the original I would be looking for hidden assets and whatever he was able to siphon off as his interest in her waned. Even if he does bring it back at this point I would be looking at his lifestyle to figure out if I needed to bring in a forensic accountant or someone to look for the money. The tax returns would at least show what companies are paying dividends and interest.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Dec 4, 2015 9:05:32 GMT -5
im reeling over the fact that your dh told his mom about the affair. Ouch He asked me if I thought he should tell her and I said that I didn't think so. But he discussed it with his sister and she was adamant. They both thought it would help because she was in a place of wondering what she did wrong to make him leave her for no real reason. SIL wanted her to know the reason so that she could have all the info to properly protect herself. It took MIL from a stage of thinking it was her fault and not knowing what to do... to realizing he is a cheating bastard and now she wants a game plan and doesn't trust and "agreement" FIL tries to put in place. I have my own opionions... and I am giving them to DH if he asks specifically. But ultimately he is going to have to decide with his SIL how they want to treat his m and what info they give her. They've both been at her house since it happened. She told my DH not to come but he wasn't hearing it. I gently suggested last night that maybe MIL would like some alone time... some time to breathe without on of them there in her business. We shall see. Sent from my SM-G920T using proboards
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2015 9:30:21 GMT -5
You've already gotten good advice so far. As far as assets, tax returns are a good place to start for any taxable savings. Even if they don't list the brokerages where the securities were held, her lawyer can look at any securities sold and ask where they were held and what was done with the proceeds. Then ask for monthly statements from those brokerages. That could flush out any money he started moving elsewhere. Same for dividends and interest. If he's changed jobs, ask about 401(k)s from other employers. Are they still there? If he claims he rolled them over, get proof. (To what brokerage? Get the statement.)
Unfortunately, since he's taken the book with the financial records, even if they request it he could pull pages out. Ask for copies of monthly checking account statements as well as credit card statements. They're all on line anyway. This is an area where you could offer to help if you're comfortable with it- go through and find things that her attorney might want to question. Staying married is very convenient for him- it's a cheap way to keep her on his employer's insurance instead of paying for COBRA or private coverage and he has a ready excuse not to marry the GF.
If they own a house, MIL should seriously consider whether or not she wants to keep it. A house that's bigger than she needs can be a big money sump. She shouldn't try to hold onto it for sentimental reasons.
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Dec 4, 2015 9:45:20 GMT -5
You can also find a lot of account information from running credit reports in both names.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 4, 2015 9:47:13 GMT -5
Staying married is very convenient for him
It may also be very convenient for her, too. Hopefully she will at least be able to consider the economic cost of some of her options. It might make sense for her to stay married for a certain period of time to qualify for certain things, etc.
Right now, the single biggest help you can provide is to encourage your DH to stay out of the nitty gritty details and advising his mom and for the MIL to get some help from some objective sources, including therapists and lawyers. It's not only really inappropriate for MIL and FIL to drag their kids into these details of the relationship, it's damaging to the family's long term relationship.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Dec 4, 2015 10:52:13 GMT -5
It also wouldn't shock me if he doesn't try and come crawling back once he realises that his standard of living is going to change dramatically. Because not only do I think the MIL will get half of everything given how long they've been married, but I also think MIL will get alimony until she can draw in her husbands full SS and until she qualifies for Medicare. But, I also think this situation is fresh for the MIL. I hope for her sake that she doesn't change her mind about divorcing him in a few weeks or months. Once the initial shock has worn off. Because the FIL has shown his lack of character. Who walks on his wife of decades for another woman, with no warning, and a few weeks before Xmas. There were a million better ways to handle this situation. The way it's been handled just demonstrated what a selfish douche the FIL really is. FiL doesn't know that MIL knows about the other woman. He didn't tell her but DH found out who it was... turns out that she lives in a shity apartment and isn't terribly financially secure. I have actually met her... she was the shampoo girl at the place my DH got his hair cut for most of his life. DH told her and MIL went from "what did I do wrong" and being a crying mess to being Angry and trying to find out her options and come to grips with living on her own. FIL is a spender. MIL isn't... my guess is that he wants to stay married because otherwise, she'd likely get half of their assets plus alimony. So if they stay married, he comes out ahead. Divorce and she gets much more. Apparently she is meeting him tomorrow to talk. I suggested to DH that she move someone in to an account in just her name and maybe get a cc in her name. She's been beating herself up about letting him take care of the big financial decisions. She pays the regular household bills, but he has all the accounts, savings, retirement, etc. She seems to have her head in it and is getting her plan together. Sent from my SM-G920T using proboards Ahhh....the fact that your MIL isn't a spender is going to be a good thing long-term. Is there any chance if FIL is a spender that perhaps things aren't all what they seem in terms of their long-term investments, etc? Although given the description of the other woman, I wonder if she'll be interested in the FIL when and if she realizes that she won't be living the same life as MIL? Because if she's financially insecure then part of the appeal of the FIL may be that he's financial secure. I know a few women who got pissed once they realized that they weren't going to get the same sort of life as the first wife. It's a horribly sad situation for your DH and MIL. I'm sorry that you are going through this.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 4, 2015 11:27:49 GMT -5
FiL doesn't know that MIL knows about the other woman. He didn't tell her but DH found out who it was... turns out that she lives in a shity apartment and isn't terribly financially secure. I have actually met her... she was the shampoo girl at the place my DH got his hair cut for most of his life. Sent from my SM-G920T using proboards Why do I have the suspicion that once shampoo girl finds out her life is not going to be much better, if it even changes at all, she will wash that man right out of her hair.
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