A Merry Passive Aggressive Christmas

[Deleted]

My daughter and her five kids came over for a belated Thanksgiving.  She insisted even though her DH had other plans.  We fed them mostly leftovers but a rotisserie chicken.  The big hit was the mac-and-cheese (boxed kind) that she asked me to make.  Second biggest hit was the Hagen-daaz ice cream bars that came into play when they disliked all things pumpkin.  That was fine.  

Anyway, we talked about Thanksgiving.  I am not really that fond of cooking or that good at it.  I'm also a perfectionist.  So I spent an entire week cooking and cleaning for basically nothing.  The grandkids are too young to like the food, their parents are too busy, etc.  It wasn't a criticism but rather an observation about myself.

My daughter totally understood.  She said they would love to host us for holidays.  It is way easier for them with five small kids.  And she immediately invited us for Christmas morning.  I did laugh when she said they had an "opening" for three hours before they had to go to her MIL's.  But it really is fine.

So how do I get my DIL on this page  I thought I suggested hosting us to both of them, but my daughter says no.  So I guess I only suggested it to my DIL who must have vetoed it.  She's also the one who didn't bring anything, but she usually brings tons of candies, cookies, etc. to Christmas.  But thinking back, we have been invited to ONE dinner at their house in almost 20 years.  She was practicing cooking dinner for her mom's family.  We weren't insulted.  She went all out, and the food was great.  But we don't remember ever eating there before or after.  We don't even remember sitting down there since most of our visits are to pick up grandkids to do stuff.

She isn't the best housekeepter, especially with four boys and two of them toddlers.  That doesn't bother us, but maybe it bothers her.  I rather imagine it does since she always apologizes when I pick up some of the kids.  I don't care, but I am sure she does.  I would.  Or am I projecting?

Ok, the question.  How do I persuade her to invite us for Christmas?  Or do we just announce we are simply delivering presents this year?  That doesn't sound like fun.  

Anyone got an idea how to get her to host us for even a short while for Christmas?  I am NOT cooking.  I barely cook for DH most of the time (he is cool with it).  I am retiring from the position of chief chef and bottle washer.

Ideas?

[Sharon]

For years we went to "brunch" at my Grandpas on Christmas morning between Santa Claus and Christmas dinner.  It was held at Grandpas but people brought cookies, fudge etc.  Grandpa would put out juice, maybe a pkg of sweet rolls that he picked up and potato chips.  Why potato chips who knows but you could always depend on there being potato chips.

You could try something like that.  No one is really cooking.  The kids would be happy with finger food and potato chips.

[busymom]

I'm guessing with 4 kids she is exhausted. And, if she does have perfectionist tendencies, there's no way she wants to host, because she'll never get the house up to her personal standards.

How about a holiday get-together on neutral ground? As an example, at our church you can rent large rooms for family gathering, and a surprising number of people use those rooms, for everything from family reunions, anniversary parties to open houses. And, make the event a potluck. Everyone has to bring something to share.

[quince]

I don't think you can "suggest" someone host you, politely.  Ask when a good time is to drop of presents, if you need to do that and are not inviting people over.

Why not talk to your SON instead of your DIL, and ask HIM to host you? He's the one you have a direct relationship with, he's the one who you should be close enough to to forgo politeness and just let him know that you're retiring from hosting and would love an invite to an event he puts together.

[Tennesseer]

And to think most of us  just celebrated Happy Passive-Aggressive Thanksgiving.

[whoisjohngalt]

Invite them for tea and cookies.  No need for you to cook and no need for her to worry about cleaning up her house.

I have to go and hug my parents now bc we have an amazingly open relationship where I can tell them flat out if I would rather they didn't come or if I would rather go there, etc.  My husband, however, can not say "no" to his parents when they invite themselves over.  I HATE that.  I hate the feeling that I have no say who is coming to my house and when.

On a side note - is it me or do you guys have a lot of interesting dilemmas when it comes to your son and your daughter and grand kids dynamics?

[taz157]

Nov 29, 2015 23:05:16 GMT -5 quince said:

Why not talk to your SON instead of your DIL, and ask HIM to host you? He's the one you have a direct relationship with, he's the one who you should be close enough to to forgo politeness and just let him know that you're retiring from hosting and would love an invite to an event he puts together.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

I'm confused about the daughter vs. DIL aspect. 
Here's what I'm understanding:

Your daughter agreed to host you and your DH for Christmas. 
Your DIL hasn't invited you over for Christmas. 
You want an invitation to both houses even thought your DIL and son have never invited you over for dinner their entire relationship.  


OR

Your daughter agreed to host you, but your DIL vetoed the entire plan and now there will be no interactions between you and either of your children and their families on Christmas Day?

[giramomma]

Re the house thing: I think for some reason, women are conditioned to apologize for their house if it's not pottery barn worthy. . I'm not sure why this is, either. I think people feel like they "must" say something at such an event.

We were invited inside our neighbors home, one of the moms apologized for the house being "messy" because there were two stray toys. On the flip side, we've had folks who live in homes twice as large and about 300x as nice as ours, tell us how lovely our house is. Again, feeling the need to say something other than "How about the local sports team...?"

I don't apologize for the condition of our house. It's clean enough, but cluttered. I'm a cluttery person. It is what it is. With only 24 hours a day..well, I can't do it all. I don't feel the need to apologize for that.

You wrote a lot about not being over at your son/dil's house to eat dinner. From my personal experience, nurturing extended family/friend relationships is something that I have to intentionally remember to do. It's hard to remember that's what people do. I grew up in a very small family...just my parents and myself, really. Plus, DH and I get so caught up in the tactical day-to-day stuff that we don't really think about any other relationship, including our own marriage. So, having folks over doesn't come naturally to me..I have to work at it, and to be honest, it's an area I struggle with.

[TheHaitian]

Nov 29, 2015 23:21:29 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

On a side note - is it me or do you guys have a lot of interesting dilemmas when it comes to your son and your daughter and grand kids dynamics?

It is not just interesting but fascinating to me... But I also believe it is because OP has always been the parent that doesn't mind. She doesn't mind they miss Thanksgiving or Christmas or Easter or Mother's Day because they are so busy with their in laws that are so demanding.

They got so used to her not minding that she has become a second thought or afterthought for the holidays, let's see where we can fit her in just to be at piece with the idea that we did.

OP that is no criticism towards you, I actually think it is honorable to have realized your kids where being pulled in million of directions during the holidays that you took yourself out as 1 more headache for them.

But while you don't mind I cannot help myself feeling hurt for you every holiday when it seems they are just trying to scramble you in while your ex family and the in laws take up center stage and all the attention.

My mom is like you... She doesn't mind. And I realized her not minding as lead to visiting my wife family more in the past 7 years we have been married than my own. She understand we are busy, being pulled in million of directions. But lately I have made sure to schedule trips just to see her, because she matters..

I think by being the silent/supportive one that doesn't mind... You forget that you also fade away because you are not as loud and demanding as those that want their attention.

As for your question: call your son up. Hey your sister can host me for 3 hours Christmas morning, I figure after we leave her house we could swing by yours... What do you think? Is that ok with your guys or not? It is ok if you had other plans ...

Simple and to the point.

By the way as your grandkids get older I think you should claim 1 day. Not a day centered around the holidays when everyone gets goes coo coo for coco puffs , but 1 day where you can have all your kids and grandkids together for a nice day. Not one where they can scramble you in...

[beergut]

I think Carl knocked this one out of the park.

Nothing more needs to be said.

[zibazinski]

Spot on, Carl.

[MJ2.0]

Nov 30, 2015 0:01:23 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Nov 29, 2015 23:21:29 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

On a side note - is it me or do you guys have a lot of interesting dilemmas when it comes to your son and your daughter and grand kids dynamics?

It is not just interesting but fascinating to me... But I also believe it is because OP has always been the parent that doesn't mind. She doesn't mind they miss Thanksgiving or Christmas or Easter or Mother's Day because they are so busy with their in laws that are so demanding.

They got so used to her not minding that she has become a second thought or afterthought for the holidays, let's see where we can fit her in just to be at piece with the idea that we did.

OP that is no criticism towards you, I actually think it is honorable to have realized your kids where being pulled in million of directions during the holidays that you took yourself out as 1 more headache for them.

But while you don't mind I cannot help myself feeling hurt for you every holiday when it seems they are just trying to scramble you in while your ex family and the in laws take up center stage and all the attention.

My mom is like you... She doesn't mind. And I realized her not minding as lead to visiting my wife family more in the past 7 years we have been married than my own. She understand we are busy, being pulled in million of directions. But lately I have made sure to schedule trips just to see her, because she matters..

I think by being the silent/supportive one that doesn't mind... You forget that you also fade away because you are not as loud and demanding as those that want their attention.

As for your question: call your son up. Hey your sister can host me for 3 hours Christmas morning, I figure after we leave her house we could swing by yours... What do you think? Is that ok with your guys or not? It is ok if you had other plans ...

Simple and to the point.

By the way as your grandkids get older I think you should claim 1 day. Not a day centered around the holidays when everyone gets goes coo coo for coco puffs , but 1 day where you can have all your kids and grandkids together for a nice day. Not one where they can scramble you in...

My mom was totally the "I don't mind" parent and my out-laws were super overbearing with making sure we spent nearly all holidays with them.

[gooddecisions]

So, who came over for Thanksgiving? Nobody? Did you know nobody was coming over before you cooked and prepared for a week?

My MIL and FIL have never hosted anything in the 9 years I've been around. They are wonderful and raised 5 children, but just aren't into it. I think it's a shame because once you lose the matriarch/patriarch, you lose a lot of the family connection. The 5 children rarely get together. I pulled off 70th birthday parties for both of them where all 5 kids attended; and, all 5 were at their daughter's wedding and grandfather's funeral. But, that's it- 4 occasions in 9 years where they were all together.

My parents moved to Florida and don't host anything either. They've never been particularly sentimental about holidays. So, each of us visit on our own and we have not all been together in over 10 years.

I think it's odd that you single out the dinner thing. My inlaws like to drop by at dinner time and it really annoys me. It's a burden cooking for the 4 of us, but adding 2 means I have to put more thought into it and double the recipe. I don't always have double the amount to whip up. If I schedule play dates with friends it's generally 10-12 or 2-4, which means nobody has to figure out feeding people. I wish my inlaws would pick up their grandkids to do stuff instead of just wanting me to entertain and feed them. But, it is what it is.

If it were me and I felt obligated to host because nobody else would/could and didn't want to lose the holiday, I would just start budgeting for catering/fully prepared food.

[zibazinski]

Nov 30, 2015 7:46:46 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Nov 30, 2015 0:01:23 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

It is not just interesting but fascinating to me... But I also believe it is because OP has always been the parent that doesn't mind. She doesn't mind they miss Thanksgiving or Christmas or Easter or Mother's Day because they are so busy with their in laws that are so demanding.

They got so used to her not minding that she has become a second thought or afterthought for the holidays, let's see where we can fit her in just to be at piece with the idea that we did.

OP that is no criticism towards you, I actually think it is honorable to have realized your kids where being pulled in million of directions during the holidays that you took yourself out as 1 more headache for them.

But while you don't mind I cannot help myself feeling hurt for you every holiday when it seems they are just trying to scramble you in while your ex family and the in laws take up center stage and all the attention.

My mom is like you... She doesn't mind. And I realized her not minding as lead to visiting my wife family more in the past 7 years we have been married than my own. She understand we are busy, being pulled in million of directions. But lately I have made sure to schedule trips just to see her, because she matters..

I think by being the silent/supportive one that doesn't mind... You forget that you also fade away because you are not as loud and demanding as those that want their attention.

As for your question: call your son up. Hey your sister can host me for 3 hours Christmas morning, I figure after we leave her house we could swing by yours... What do you think? Is that ok with your guys or not? It is ok if you had other plans ...

Simple and to the point.

By the way as your grandkids get older I think you should claim 1 day. Not a day centered around the holidays when everyone gets goes coo coo for coco puffs , but 1 day where you can have all your kids and grandkids together for a nice day. Not one where they can scramble you in...

My mom was totally the "I don't mind" parent and my out-laws were super overbearing with making sure we spent nearly all holidays with them.

My ex used to pull this but the kids had no issue telling him since he decided to change the family dynamic , they would see him when and if they felt like it. I think it's on adult "child" to maintain lines that other adults don't cross. I would never let an in law grab what belongs to me or my family.  If the "child" decides to, then that's the issue.

[gooddecisions]

The other thing that stood out to me is that you singled out your DIL for not bringing anything. Did you ask her to bring something? I am always happy to contribute what the host wants me to bring, but if they don't tell me then I don't know what to bring. The southern woman in me won't allow me to show up empty-handed, but the practical person in me won't allow me to bring something that is already covered. My SIL told me I didn't need to bring anything to Thanksgiving after I asked, so she got flowers, wine and chocolate as a host gift. I hope they are not talking about how we showed up with nothing.

A simple, do you mind bringing the mashed potatoes or apple pie, works great. 

[yogiii]

Nov 29, 2015 22:02:11 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

  But thinking back, we have been invited to ONE dinner at their house in almost 20 years.  She was practicing cooking dinner for her mom's family.  We weren't insulted.  She went all out, and the food was great.  But we don't remember ever eating there before or after.  We don't even remember sitting down there since most of our visits are to pick up grandkids to do stuff.

You say you aren't insulted, but clearly you are or you wouldn't be thinking about this and keeping track.  It's ok to feel bad or insulted, just admit it.  If you tell everyone it's ok but it really isn't, you can't blame them for going off and doing it.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

It's rather rude to ask someone to host you.    It's also rather rude to think you can talk someone into it. 

You call you son and say "Hey your sister is hosting us for Christmas morning.  We'll be there from X:00 to Y:00.  Since we'll be in the area is it all right to stop by or do you have plans?"

Then let THEM decide if they want to entertain you or not.

[whoisjohngalt]

May be it's a cultural thing,but I never go to my parents house with anything other than the kids.  The "food train" usually goes from my parents' house to mine.  My mom always makes all my and kids' favorite things and brings them over, even though they live 400 miles away.

[Deleted]

Nov 29, 2015 23:51:59 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

I'm confused about the daughter vs. DIL aspect. 
Here's what I'm understanding:

Your daughter agreed to host you and your DH for Christmas. 
Your DIL hasn't invited you over for Christmas. 
You want an invitation to both houses even thought your DIL and son have never invited you over for dinner their entire relationship.  


OR

Your daughter agreed to host you, but your DIL vetoed the entire plan and now there will be no interactions between you and either of your children and their families on Christmas Day?

We want an invitation to both houses, mostly to give the grandkids their presents. 

I explained to my daughter that I was exhausted this Thanksgiving with all the cooking and cleaning.  I'm not doing it for Christmas this year.  My daughter said they would LOVE to have us down on Christmas morning . . . much easier than hauling five kids 45 minutes away.

Now I need to have my daughter-in-law invite us over.  No to the inviting them over for cookies or something. That still puts me in the position of hosting, I did that already.

I guess when they call to ask what the "Christmas plans" are, I'll just say let us know when you want us to drop by.

None of you were here for Thanksgiving so you have no idea what an ordeal it was to cook for people who didn't really care to be here.  We aren't doing that again any time soon.  We aren't angry or upset. We just aren't doing it.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I've tried bringing food to my grandmother's, MIL's and SIL's.

Every single time whatever I brought was stuck in the kitchen never to be seen again.  If I took it upon myself to move it, it'd somehow disappear again.  I'd be told "sorry they forgot to put it out".

I stopped bringing anything to events with DH's family several years ago b/c I am sick of wasting food.

If they want to cluck about it they can have at it.  I am not cooking for the sake of keeping up appearances.

[yogiii]

My ILs always suggest we get a pizza or something when they come to visit.  They hate for us to cook for them because they feel they are burdening us, their words "you guys work, we are retired".  So I think it all depends on personalities and formalities.  I have other family members who visit and want to be served and entertained.  Everyone is different!

[gooddecisions]

Nov 30, 2015 11:50:40 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

May be it's a cultural thing,but I never go to my parents house with anything other than the kids.  The "food train" usually goes from my parents' house to mine.  My mom always makes all my and kids' favorite things and brings them over, even though they live 400 miles away.

That's amazing. Can they adopt me?

[Tiny]

I'm gonna go with an idea that's outside the "eat food with family on Holidays" box. Why not try to come up with some other kind of 'tradition' that you can do with your son's family? Is there someplace you and ALL of them can go (maybe something that doesn't involve food) to spend a few hours and create Christmas memories for your grandkids?

I'm old, and cranky, and cynical... so take this with a grain of salt: Stop thinking about Christmas being about you(or your gown kids) or whatever expectations you are trying to meet(to compare with other adults). Christmas is about attempting to make some 'happy' memories for your grandkids.

I'm old, and cranky and cynical about Christmas mostly because I have realatively crappy memories of Christmas - and not because we were 'poor' or because I didn't sometimes get what I wanted or because there wasn't any Christmas. My memories are mostly about how much work it was - and how you had to behave a certain way and how you had to do certain (meaningless to me) traditions. When I was older it became actual work - help with cleaning the house (and then keeping it tidy for 2 to 3 weeks), spending Christmas Eve helping cook, spending Christmas morning helping to cook more food and rushing to Church, and then spending the afternoon cleaning up everything. If anything I spend my Christmas time waiting for it to end... (which when I was a kid was on January 6tn) Hauling out the Christmas tree was a huge relief to me.

For me Christmas is all about cleaning (and then maintaining that 'clean') and cooking.

If I were you - I wouldn't try to force being invited over for FOOD to your In Laws.... I'd maybe try to find something you can do with their whole Family that takes up a couple two-three hours and make some memories for your Grandkids. My nieces and nephews - when they talk about Christmas's past all have a couple of things they did with their parents (or grandparents or aunts/uncles/cousins) that do NOT involve sitting down to eat or presents. These memories seem to bring them a lot of pleasure. Even more so now that some of the relatives are dead and gone.

[whoisjohngalt]

Nov 30, 2015 11:52:40 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

Nov 29, 2015 23:51:59 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

I'm confused about the daughter vs. DIL aspect. 
Here's what I'm understanding:

Your daughter agreed to host you and your DH for Christmas. 
Your DIL hasn't invited you over for Christmas. 
You want an invitation to both houses even thought your DIL and son have never invited you over for dinner their entire relationship.  


OR

Your daughter agreed to host you, but your DIL vetoed the entire plan and now there will be no interactions between you and either of your children and their families on Christmas Day?

We want an invitation to both houses, mostly to give the grandkids their presents. 

I explained to my daughter that I was exhausted this Thanksgiving with all the cooking and cleaning.  I'm not doing it for Christmas this year.  My daughter said they would LOVE to have us down on Christmas morning . . . much easier than hauling five kids 45 minutes away.

Now I need to have my daughter-in-law invite us over.  No to the inviting them over for cookies or something. That still puts me in the position of hosting, I did that already.

I guess when they call to ask what the "Christmas plans" are, I'll just say let us know when you want us to drop by.

None of you were here for Thanksgiving so you have no idea what an ordeal it was to cook for people who didn't really care to be here.  We aren't doing that again any time soon.  We aren't angry or upset. We just aren't doing it.

May be they didn't care to be there bc you are hugely projecting what an ordeal it was for you to have them there.

[HoneyBBQ]

Nov 29, 2015 23:05:16 GMT -5 quince said:

I don't think you can "suggest" someone host you, politely.  Ask when a good time is to drop of presents, if you need to do that and are not inviting people over.

Why not talk to your SON instead of your DIL, and ask HIM to host you? He's the one you have a direct relationship with, he's the one who you should be close enough to to forgo politeness and just let him know that you're retiring from hosting and would love an invite to an event he puts together.

I totally agree. Why is this on the DIL? Why not the SON?  

3 people have asked this, and so far no answer..........

[ArchietheDragon]

Nov 30, 2015 12:17:30 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

Nov 29, 2015 23:05:16 GMT -5 quince said:

I don't think you can "suggest" someone host you, politely.  Ask when a good time is to drop of presents, if you need to do that and are not inviting people over.

Why not talk to your SON instead of your DIL, and ask HIM to host you? He's the one you have a direct relationship with, he's the one who you should be close enough to to forgo politeness and just let him know that you're retiring from hosting and would love an invite to an event he puts together.

I totally agree. Why is this on the DIL? Why not the SON?  

3 people have asked this, and so far no answer..........

He is a guy.    Guys don't make plans like this.     The lady folk do. 

[bean29]

I don't know it may be somewhat rude to discuss who is hosting what holiday, but it is done in many families. My SIL's family rotates holidays. In my family it is my Mother, my SIL/BIL or my husband and I that host. Sister's house would not fit the whole family and finances would be an issue (host usually foots bill for a larger share of costs).  The easiest way to bring up the discussion would probably be to ask each family to host one holiday.  Christmas/Easter/Thanksgiving, or to rotate the host from year to year. 

MIL is easygoing about the holidays, she does not really care who comes or what time they are coming, but I think she does like to hear from people what their plans are, if they will stop by and approximately what time they will come by.  After my DH told me his mother expressed irritation a few times that she had not heard from any of her kids what their plans were, I came to realize that we needed to shift things up occasionally and put DH's family first.  It is not just for her, but for us too, because otherwise we keep missing the same relatives all the time.   

I also feel Carl pretty much nailed it. My MIL is very easy going. She had 8 kids. Five live close enough to share holidays. She has a cape code maybe 1600 sf at the most. She wanted to do Thanksgiving. So we said ok, we will go to her house. Wed, my SIL sent a group text asking so where is thanksgiving going to be? I responded that our MIL wanted it at her house. She replied that she was hoping we were hosting, more space. I was kind of put out, but I agree pretty much. We have more parking and more living space and we have 2 kitchens (2 stoves, 2 refrigerators, 2 microwaves, and 2 dishwashers). 

So as we were all crammed into MIL's living room dining room on Thanksgiving DH said Christmas is going to be at our house.  I looked at him and said Christmas Day?  he said no, Christmas eve.  Both our families insist on celebrating Christmas on Christmas eve.  No one does anything on Christmas Day.  But as I was busting my butt to get to my Mother's at noon on Thanksgiving I was thinking to myself - If I continue to let my family dictate when we celebrate holidays, we will be stuck with the 12pm slot after my kids get into committed relationships, and if we will be hosting, I want to start at 2pm or 4pm not at 12 pm, so I need to change this situation now even if it means we rotate holidays.  

I think my Mom leans on her Daughters harder to do what she wants, and so we feel more obligated to fall in line, but my Brother and his wife have never celebrated Mother's Day or Father's Day with my parents.  Then again, my MIL leans on DH, but she doesn't have any daughters and her son's like to cook. 

I have to announce to my family that they will either come to my house Christmas eve or celebrate the holiday without me.   

[whoisjohngalt]

Nov 30, 2015 12:19:19 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Nov 30, 2015 12:17:30 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

I totally agree. Why is this on the DIL? Why not the SON?  

3 people have asked this, and so far no answer..........

He is a guy.    Guys don't make plans like this.     The lady folk do. 

yeah, that's what my husband says until his father invites himself over and then all of a sudden husband is making all kinds of plans.

[ArchietheDragon]

Nov 30, 2015 12:21:54 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Nov 30, 2015 12:19:19 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

He is a guy.    Guys don't make plans like this.     The lady folk do. 

yeah, that's what my husband says until his father invites himself over and then all of a sudden husband is making all kinds of plans.

man to man plans are ok.    I approve it.