Divorce Settlement - Need Advice

[milee]

Nov 19, 2015 20:12:38 GMT -5 @patstab said:

Or can you mail him $1000 one month and $4000 the next, vary it all over the place and each the following month you

would be caught up so it would be good. Just mess with him.

I've never been divorced, so realize I probably don't truly understand the anger and pain but it seems like this is a recipe for prolonging the suffering more for you than for him. Yes, you're messing with him, but you're also keeping yourself entangled in the situation and tied to him.  Instead of making the break and moving on, this would just keep you in "the fight". For your own sake, please don't do things like this. Move on...

[NastyWoman]

Nov 19, 2015 20:51:28 GMT -5 milee said:

Nov 19, 2015 20:12:38 GMT -5 @patstab said:

Or can you mail him $1000 one month and $4000 the next, vary it all over the place and each the following month you

would be caught up so it would be good. Just mess with him.

I've never been divorced, so realize I probably don't truly understand the anger and pain but it seems like this is a recipe for prolonging the suffering more for you than for him. Yes, you're messing with him, but you're also keeping yourself entangled in the situation and tied to him.  Instead of making the break and moving on, this would just keep you in "the fight". For your own sake, please don't do things like this. Move on...

I am divorced but for the rest I would however make monthly payments (set on auto-pay) if that were to my financial advantage. But that's just me  

[cronewitch]

I owed my ex 10K for the divorce at $100 a month zero interest but he wanted a lump sum so I talked him down to 7,000. He was going to sell his annuity so I told him he would take a discount for selling a zero interest debt.

Have the money to pay him off but if he goes broke anyhow buy him out at a discount.

[Deleted]

Nov 19, 2015 21:40:10 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

Have the money to pay him off but if he goes broke anyhow buy him out at a discount.

I would be VERY careful about making payments that didn't conform to the original agreement without getting a lawyer to write it up.

[CCL]

Nov 19, 2015 19:38:35 GMT -5 haapai said:

Am I missing a joke here?  Some of the suggestions made seem a scootch spiteful.  Would be saying these things or finding them funny if Mr Micky were a goose instead of a gander? 

To me, at least, it seems like he's not deserving of the alimony. I can see splitting the assets gathered during the marriage, but why should he get a monthly paycheck if he's the one who was cheating? No, I don't think it's funny, but I don't think it's fair either. With no children in the picture, why shouldn't he go get a full-time job and support himself? It doesn't make a bit of difference which is goose and which is gander, if the circumstances are the same.

[whoami]

Nov 19, 2015 20:51:28 GMT -5 milee said:

Nov 19, 2015 20:12:38 GMT -5 @patstab said:

Or can you mail him $1000 one month and $4000 the next, vary it all over the place and each the following month you

would be caught up so it would be good. Just mess with him.

I've never been divorced, so realize I probably don't truly understand the anger and pain but it seems like this is a recipe for prolonging the suffering more for you than for him. Yes, you're messing with him, but you're also keeping yourself entangled in the situation and tied to him.  Instead of making the break and moving on, this would just keep you in "the fight". For your own sake, please don't do things like this. Move on...

Not to mention, this sort of childish shit is what clogs up family courts with nonsense cases and prevents people from being heard in a timely manner. I had an ex who paid child support at his leisure and it took over a year to get it resolved in the courts because it took forever to get a court date.

It's not cute or funny to play these sorts of games with people even if they are douchebags because it's not just them you are affecting. Pay what you are supposed to pay each month and don't create bullshit contempt cases just for the sake of being spiteful.

[gooddecisions]

My friend just went through this. Like you, she was the breadwinner (although nowhere near your salary) and her husband had extremely expensive hobbies and could never get his act together to keep a job. They didn't have children together. They were married 20 years. She is 65 and he is 15 years younger, cheated on her throughout the marriage, had someone on the side at the end and demanded the divorce. She chose the lump sum and sweetened the pot with keeping him on her benefits in hopes he would take it easy on her as far as going after more. He didn't and demanded 50% of her retirement. She's relieved she doesn't have to pay alimony, but she'll never be able to retire. He just got approved for social security disability, so he'll never have to work. I don't understand how these cheaters get away with so much.

Tough situation. I hope you can find a good network of friends to help you through the transition.

[MJ2.0]

Nov 19, 2015 22:33:51 GMT -5 gooddecisions said:

My friend just went through this. Like you, she was the breadwinner (although nowhere near your salary) and her husband had extremely expensive hobbies and could never get his act together to keep a job. They didn't have children together. They were married 20 years. She is 65 and he is 15 years younger, cheated on her throughout the marriage, had someone on the side at the end and demanded the divorce. She chose the lump sum and sweetened the pot with keeping him on her benefits in hopes he would take it easy on her as far as going after more. He didn't and demanded 50% of her retirement. She's relieved she doesn't have to pay alimony, but she'll never be able to retire. He just got approved for social security disability, so he'll never have to work. I don't understand how these cheaters get away with so much.

Tough situation. I hope you can find a good network of friends to help you through the transition.

That is crazy!

[tallguy]

Nov 19, 2015 15:52:18 GMT -5 micky said:

Nov 19, 2015 15:32:37 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Below is the tax bracket for a single person in the income range Mckey is in.  Looks to me that the tax advantage of alimony would be somewhere in the $12k/yr range! I'm too lazy to scan back up and check, but if this alimony will last for 3 years it would be like pay two get one free!

33% $189,301 to $411,500

That was just for the money part. Take good care of yourself Mickey

Thanks Virginia. I looked it up too. Looks like initially for this year while filing Married But Seperate, my bracket will go up, but then when I file as truly Single next year it will go back to where it was when filing as Married. I think my overall savings in livings expenses will more than compensate for the extra taxes and frankly, never thought I'd say this, I feel better about giving my hard earned money to Uncle Sam at this point than my STBX!

Any particular reason you can't manage to cooperate long enough to do Married Filing Jointly?  Yes, it may be unpleasant.  Yes, it will save you five figures.  Somehow I think I could manage. 

Edit:  You could do MFS now if it is too painful an ordeal, and then amend your returns later to recover the extra taxes paid.  I'm not sure, but I think the deadline for such a filing is three years from the original due date.  That deadline is not the same for changing from MFJ to MFS though.  Be sure to check with your tax person.    

[bobosensei]

I hear a hit man is only 10k or so. 

[Deleted]

Nov 20, 2015 8:29:17 GMT -5 micky said:

Nov 19, 2015 22:33:51 GMT -5 gooddecisions said:

My friend just went through this. Like you, she was the breadwinner (although nowhere near your salary) and her husband had extremely expensive hobbies and could never get his act together to keep a job. They didn't have children together. They were married 20 years. She is 65 and he is 15 years younger, cheated on her throughout the marriage, had someone on the side at the end and demanded the divorce. She chose the lump sum and sweetened the pot with keeping him on her benefits in hopes he would take it easy on her as far as going after more. He didn't and demanded 50% of her retirement. She's relieved she doesn't have to pay alimony, but she'll never be able to retire. He just got approved for social security disability, so he'll never have to work. I don't understand how these cheaters get away with so much.

Tough situation. I hope you can find a good network of friends to help you through the transition.

This is why I'm getting out now (well that and that I just found out about the cheating LOL). At only 48 thankfully I will have time to recover financially and won't have to share my SS with him, the payout from my 401(k) to him can become his own retirement account if he so chooses (he probably won't). Thankfully not my problem any more.

Well, unfortunately unless he remarries, he'll still get to draw on your SS since you were married over 10 years.  It won't effect you any, unless you count that "he's getting to leach off you until he dies" feeling.

[NoNamePerson]

Nov 20, 2015 8:44:39 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Nov 20, 2015 8:29:17 GMT -5 micky said:

This is why I'm getting out now (well that and that I just found out about the cheating LOL). At only 48 thankfully I will have time to recover financially and won't have to share my SS with him, the payout from my 401(k) to him can become his own retirement account if he so chooses (he probably won't). Thankfully not my problem any more.

Well, unfortunately unless he remarries, he'll still get to draw on your SS since you were married over 10 years.  It won't effect you any, unless you count that "he's getting to leach off you until he dies" feeling.

You beat me to it!! I was sitting here wondering if the SS laws had changed recently. Hopefully by the time he reaches the full benefits age the OP won't be thinking about this dude even if he gets to draw against her.     

[Deleted]

Nov 20, 2015 8:33:00 GMT -5 micky said:

Not sure I can stomach the filing jointly this year but we'll see. Sometimes a little expense is worth some mental sanity.

If you think you might file jointly, see if you can get an idea of whether or not you'll get a refund. (I know that may be tricky if you have savings outside of tax-sheltered accounts because mutual fund distributions are usually made in December). I'd cut it as close as possible to not getting a refund because it will be one more thing to fight over when it comes in. If you anticipate a big refund, you might want to cut your withholding back sharply through the end of this year to minimize it.  (If the two of you owe more taxes, can you demand money from him?  Hmmmm.  )   I once worked for a small consulting firm and realized about this time of year that I was already overpaid for the year and asked Canny Old Guy who ran the place to cut my withholdings back to zero.  He thought that would look suspicious, but did cut it back to something like 3% of my income.

Nov 20, 2015 8:52:31 GMT -5 @patstab said:

Isn't that sad when someone is able to cash in on the hard work of one party. 

I agree. I've got a BIL who supported my sister and their 3 kids by working 2 or 3 jobs so she could attend Med school, and later gave up a great job prospect of his own so she could take an opportunity in Hilton Head. Later he did a lot of the legwork when she set up her own practice. If that marriage had ever broken up (thank God, it's still going strong), I would have expected her to give him a couple of years of alimony. It doesn't seem right, though, that a spouse who doesn't do much but spend money on expensive habits gets a big chunk of assets plus alimony, no matter what sex they are.

I agree with the OP, though- you have to get up and go on and not dwell on bitterness or seek revenge. One of my favorite quotes from the writer Dorothy Parker: “I am not a vengeful woman… possibly for the perfectly working reason that if you just sit back and wait, the bastards will get theirs without your doing anything about it, and it will be fancier than anything you could have dreamed up.”

[HoneyBBQ]

Nov 19, 2015 10:44:35 GMT -5 micky said:

Sorry guys, I guess I wasn't super clear. Here is situation: The house is titled in my name only. Value: $350k, Mortgage $62k. In addition to other settlement issues of cash/investments/etc. I need to negotiate alimony. Two years at $3k a month = $72k total by the time I'm done.

I have to refinance the house anyway to pay him out his equity. Instead of month to month alimony I can negotiate the alimony as one lump payment. To get that money my thought was to refinance MORE to get those funds and then I am just done with him vs. doling out the money month to month.

From an investment standpoint which is better. Since I will be paying more mortgage interest I will get a bigger tax break on the newly refinanced house, so that is a small win for me but alimony is also tax deductible on my side (and taxable as income on his side).

Where are you getting the 500k from? Are you splitting retirement funds also? 

Realize that filing the QDROs could literally take years. 

[TheHaitian]

Nov 20, 2015 12:41:54 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

Nov 19, 2015 10:44:35 GMT -5 micky said:

Sorry guys, I guess I wasn't super clear. Here is situation: The house is titled in my name only. Value: $350k, Mortgage $62k. In addition to other settlement issues of cash/investments/etc. I need to negotiate alimony. Two years at $3k a month = $72k total by the time I'm done.

I have to refinance the house anyway to pay him out his equity. Instead of month to month alimony I can negotiate the alimony as one lump payment. To get that money my thought was to refinance MORE to get those funds and then I am just done with him vs. doling out the money month to month.

From an investment standpoint which is better. Since I will be paying more mortgage interest I will get a bigger tax break on the newly refinanced house, so that is a small win for me but alimony is also tax deductible on my side (and taxable as income on his side).

Where are you getting the 500k from? Are you splitting retirement funds also? 

Realize that filing the QDROs could literally take years. 

Why years?

[Deleted]

Nov 20, 2015 12:55:42 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Nov 20, 2015 12:41:54 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

Where are you getting the 500k from? Are you splitting retirement funds also? 

Realize that filing the QDROs could literally take years. 

Why years?

I was wondering that too.  Mine was only a couple months if that, but maybe the large dollar amount changes things?

[cktc]

Nov 20, 2015 13:11:34 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Nov 20, 2015 12:55:42 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Why years?

I was wondering that too.  Mine was only a couple months if that, but maybe the large dollar amount changes things?

I think a lot depends on the lawyer. QDROs can be very complicated and if the lawyer isn't on top of everything they can get tied up for quite a while. When my ex and I divorced we were referred to a separate attorney that specialized in QDROs and paid around $1000 just for that but it was handled quickly without further hassle.

[HoneyBBQ]

Nov 20, 2015 12:55:42 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Nov 20, 2015 12:41:54 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

Where are you getting the 500k from? Are you splitting retirement funds also? 

Realize that filing the QDROs could literally take years. 

Why years?

As far as I can tell, they do all the math on abbacuses.

Just speaking from H's experience. I think it takes forever for them to back project each fund from the day the divorce is finalized, etc. Plus they make $400 an hour, so why go fast? 

[HoneyBBQ]

Nov 20, 2015 12:55:54 GMT -5 micky said:

The $500k is coming from cash holdings, investment accounts, equity in house, 401(K), and division of property/belongings (furniture, cars, motorcycles, art). I have contacted my plan manager for the 401(k) and they said once they get the QDRO once filed would only take a month at the most to get him the paperwork to direct the funds.

It's getting the QDROs filed that take forever.

But seriously, good luck. Sounds like you'll land on your feet and take off running. 

[Bonny]

Nov 20, 2015 9:28:02 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Nov 20, 2015 8:33:00 GMT -5 micky said:

Nov 20, 2015 8:52:31 GMT -5 @patstab said:

Isn't that sad when someone is able to cash in on the hard work of one party. 

  It doesn't seem right, though, that a spouse who doesn't do much but spend money on expensive habits gets a big chunk of assets plus alimony, no matter what sex they are.

I agree with the OP, though- you have to get up and go on and not dwell on bitterness or seek revenge. One of my favorite quotes from the writer Dorothy Parker: “I am not a vengeful woman… possibly for the perfectly working reason that if you just sit back and wait, the bastards will get theirs without your doing anything about it, and it will be fancier than anything you could have dreamed up.”

I think there's a lesson here that if the relationship heads south and you don't get anywhere with counseling that the quicker you end it the better.

I love that quote @athena53. It's a little more eloquent than "Karma's a bitch!"

[TheOtherMe]

Retired IRS agent here.  You will not get a tax deduction from a lump sum payment.  There is some degree of satisfaction of making him pay taxes on the alimony. 

In all my years at the IRS, I did see recipients try not to report alimony.  Now, you will put his SSN on your tax return and it will have to match his.

I did have one man who paid the ex in a lump sum.  His comment was (short marriage of a very wealthy man to a very young woman), I just wanted her out of my life.  I know I could have saved money on taxes.

Best to you.

[8 Bit WWBG]

These cases seem to prove that those who deserve the least get the most.  What a raw deal for micky...

If I have been burned by, and learned one thing, it is that the WORST deal to enter into is one in which you pay a measured certainty in full up front, in exchange for an unmeasured possibility, at an unspecified future date.  Any deal of that nature becomes subject to revision as soon as the other party has received his/her payment.

I would meter out the payments to be as low as possible, and I'd probably send them as late as possible.  If possible, I might even opt to send them as paper checks certified return receipt, just so he has to do extra work and wait extra time to receive the money.

Is this how most "ant and grasshopper" divorces go down?  I know there are so many factors at play, and I have to wonder whether the best option for the ant is to adopt grasshopper traits when divorce is imminent!

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::" It doesn't seem right, though, that a spouse who doesn't do much but spend money on expensive habits gets a big chunk of assets plus alimony, no matter what sex they are.":::...

Exactly.  It is not right that one person gets to walk away with everything they diverted from the marriage AND gets a chunk of what the other party put aside!  I have no idea how common such a scenario is, but I don't see how it could be defended as "reasonable".

[quince]

I think it's mostly a case of- divorces are shitty, and often contentious.

Unless there's massive, obvious, criminal harm done, half joint assets. Alimony, but mostly limited unless there's a damned good reason. (2 years is nice and short.) It can still be ugly, but going back and forth about who said yes to what and what was OK up until divorce was decided on profits no one but the attorneys. 

I am not working at this point. I do most of the childcare, despite the kid being in daycare 3 days a week- I'm still primary on all evenings and weekends because my husband has a demanding job (and is still working on a PhD).  My husband is on board with me not working and SUGGESTED the daycare. This is not documented. How much time I spend taking care of the kid vs. how much my husband does? Not documented. Living here has raised my (social/general) anxiety from something I can work around to almost crippling levels. Not diagnosed/not documented. We're in agreement on spending, but since I'm the one home/with the kid, I buy most groceries/sundries, so I guess I look like the spender? 

My husband is TOTALLY behind our arrangement, and it he wasn't, we'd work together to change it.

If we were to divorce, he could tell people that he does all the work, makes all the money, and I just sit around and spend it, and thus deserve nothing. This is not true, but some of his claims can be backed up, and what I contribute mostly can't.  I'm GLAD it's not the norm to have the courts arbitrarily decide I'm worthless and should be thrown out directly into poverty with no assets and no support to bridge the gap of getting things together again. 

There are certainly cases which are abuses. I'm pretty sure there are cases where the villainous spouse is better off and hides assets/has better lawyers/screws over the ex.  It's not awesome, but less awesome would be a court structure that made decisions about how upright/moral/"deserving" a spouse was in the case of divorce, when no one had done anything illegal.

[Deleted]

I'll agree with quince here.  We side with Mickey because she is here telling the story. That doesn't mean the story isn't 100% accurate; I am sure it is.

But let's not use this as an opportunity to digress into calling everyone who gets alimony a leech.

[Baby Fawkes]

Nov 21, 2015 20:17:58 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

I'll agree with quince here.  We side with Mickey because she is here telling the story. That doesn't mean the story isn't 100% accurate; I am sure it is.

But let's not use this as an opportunity to digress into calling everyone who gets alimony a leech.

+1 to both bamafan and quince

It's easy for me to say because I'm still happily married, but DW is a SAHW and just about earns 5 figures. I on the hand bring in around 40x what she makes, but I hope nobody would jump to the conclusion that she was a leech if we divorce.

I'm not saying Mickey isn't 100% correct in everything she describes but we should always reserve complete judgement unkess both sides are presented.

I'm not planning to ever get divorced, but I hope that that if I do I still have these same feelings . I realize that there is no way I would ever not have to pay alimony with the earning situation we have. DW has often said she'll go out and get a job, but the sort of money she would
Likely bring in isn't worth the amount of work she does to take care of everything around the house and more.

[NoNamePerson]

My reply has othing to do with lump sum payout. But just a reminder about the small stuff.

Change beneficiaries on anything like insurance, IRA, 401K etc.
Closing any joint accounts.
Change locks on doors.
Draw up new will.

Just some of that little stuff that people sometimes overlook. Lots of I's to dot and T's to cross when divorcing.

And good luck down the road. Even when you are the one wanting the divorce it's not easy. 

[Deleted]

Nov 21, 2015 22:34:28 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

My reply has othing to do with lump sum payout. But just a reminder about the small stuff.

Change beneficiaries on anything like insurance, IRA, 401K etc.
Closing any joint accounts.
Change locks on doors.
Draw up new will.

Just some of that little stuff that people sometimes overlook. Lots of I's to dot and T's to cross when divorcing.

And good luck down the road. Even when you are the one wanting the divorce it's not easy. 

Also, check to see if you are paying for benefits like spousal life insurance.

When my ex remarried and added his new wife to his benefits, he discovered that he had paid life insurance on me for about five years! It would never have paid out, and he got a nice refund. I got offered Cobra belatedly but passed. I had gotten my own life insurance.

No idea who dropped the ball on that one. I know he notified HR of our divorce.  

[Deleted]

Is he on your employer's health insurance? If he is, you may want to set things up so he's responsible for paying the premium.

[Miss Tequila]

And that is why one spouse should never support another. You get screwed in the divorce!