Would you send your kids....

[TheHaitian]

To a top notch private school if they risk being the poorest kids there?

This conversation started between my wife and I last night while we were looking at the costs of Catholic private schools and it wandered into the top notch private schools.

In the greater Boston area you are looking at 30k-40k/year from Kindergarten to 12th grade. But some of the schools have awesome aid for certain income brackets

One of the top all girl private schools and ivy feeder the Windsor school have a price tag of $42,400/year

www.winsor.edu/admission/affording-winsor/index.aspx

For the 2015-2016 academic year Winsor's comprehensive tuition is $42,400.

We welcome applications for tuition assistance and offer a variety of payment plans. Families with a wide range of income levels apply for aid.

Income & Sample Financial Aid Services
Income Range

Average Aid Award

$25,000 - 89,000 ----> $39,400
$90,000 - 129,000 ----> $35,300
$150,000+ ------> $26,600

My wife believes that it will bring it own sets of problems with the kids and even if we were divorced and she qualified for the max aid and only having to pay $3,000/year, she would prefer to send the kid to a cheaper Catholic school for 7-10k/year were the kid would not feel out of place.

What is your take?

[Shooby]

I guess I am really not all atwitter about the "best" school.  For me, my kids went to the school that was here where we live , which is a public school.  The only option for us would be to send them on a 20 mile ride one way to go to a Christian or Catholic school. Too far. Not worth it in my opinion. If you can comfortably afford a private school and think there is some advantage that is important to you, then fine.  Somebody has to be the "poorest".  However if it strapped you financially to send them, then I think that is just plain stupid.  But, I am not impressed with "Ivy" league baloney blah, blah. Couldn't care less about that sort of thing.

[Shooby]

  To me, it makes much more sense to save that money for college.

[whoisjohngalt]

Unless I was living in a ghetto or was ubber religious, I can't see myself sending my kids to any private schools.

[steph08]

Like shooby, I don't believe that your school district is the be-all-end-all in determining how your kid is going to turn out.

But it looks like everyone would get massive aid at that school anyway, so nobody is paying sticker price. If you really lived somewhere crappy and only had to pay 3k/year - I would probably do it. There will be other kids there on aid just like your kid.

I went to a private college whose sticker price was up there, but with the aid, I paid less for it than if I had gone to the local state school. My parents' income was probably in the lower third of all the kids there but it didn't matter.

[jackb1117]

TheHaitian - I am in the Greater Boston Area as well, but I couldn't imagine spending that kind of scratch to send my kid to a private school with all the good school districts in our area. My boss does this and it blows my mind- he lives in the same town as I do which has a fantastic school district that always ranks near the top of the country on those ranking lists that come out once a year, but sends his kids to a private school to the tune of ~$60k (for multiple kids) per year.

I suppose there is an argument to be made if the school is faith based and that is important for you to pass onto your kids- but take it from someone who went to Catholic schools for 12yrs and is now an atheist- sometimes that can backfire 

[cael]

As a kid who was among the "poorest" at the tiny private school I went to (not an Ivy feeder, in any way), I definitely noticed. I noticed when I got knock off brand shoes and everyone else had Chucks and I had nothing but thrift store clothes, or I went to a birthday party at mansions in Gloucester (I'm not kidding about that one) and my classmates came to my parties at our apartment complex, I noticed when my classmates went to India for summer vacation and I went to Maine, I noticed when they all went skiing every weekend and I'd never been once. I noticed when my parents drove $200 junkers from a coworker's brother's yard because they couldn't afford any other car, and my classmates all had Suburbans or average "nice" cars. I don't want to say I constantly resented it, but there were points I definitely did. I was also socially awkward, shy, didn't stick up for myself, and was stuck with the same kids for 8 years and I won't say they were awful, but they weren't great. I could not WAIT to start "real" (public) high school and I did a lot better there, socially and mostly academically.

Now a top-notch private school like what you're talking about would probably give an excellent education. I didn't feel I got any kind of good science and math background at my school, I didn't develop any good study habits because we rarely had tests and didn't even get homework until 5th-6th grade, so there are all sorts of issues there. (look up Waldorf schools, very hard for me to explain.) I doubt you guys would live quite as cheap a lifestyle as my parents had to, but the level of the schools you're talking about are above my old school by leaps and bounds and would probably provide a well-worth it education.. So this is just my view, YMMV.

[cael]

And to add, I will never send my kids to private school, it's just not something I want to spend my money on. I"d rather save it for college or retirement, or vacations with the kid. We're just going to try to get a house in a moderate-to-good school district and they'll go to public. I agree with everyone saying parental involvement plays a big role in whether your kid is successful in any public school.

[NoNamePerson]

I wouldn't send my kid to a kindergarten that cost $42,000 a year if I had Bill Gates/Warren Buffett kinda money.    

[swamp]

No, I wouldn't.

I don't care if my kids make all the connections necessary to become president, be a fortune 500 CEO, or run the world.

I just want them to be happy productive people.

[TheHaitian]

Oct 27, 2015 7:50:56 GMT -5 jackb1117 said:

TheHaitian - I am in the Greater Boston Area as well, but I couldn't imagine spending that kind of scratch to send my kid to a private school with all the good school districts in our area. My boss does this and it blows my mind- he lives in the same town as I do which has a fantastic school district that always ranks near the top of the country on those ranking lists that come out once a year, but sends his kids to a private school to the tune of ~$60k (for multiple kids) per year.

I suppose there is an argument to be made if the school is faith based and that is important for you to pass onto your kids- but take it from someone who went to Catholic schools for 12yrs and is now an atheist- sometimes that can backfire 

Both my wife and I went to Catholic school from first grade till 12th... I barely if ever go to church and she still does.

We went to her cousin confirmation and she was her cousin sponsor so that got her thinking about it.

The thing is if we have to pay the 5k-10k/year for a Catholic I would prefer to save the money for college. But I can understand how a parent that falls in that income bracket and their kid got in would jump at the chance.

[TheHaitian]

Oct 27, 2015 7:39:27 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  To me, it makes much more sense to save that money for college.

The parents that are paying 30k-40k/year from Kindergarten to 12th grade are not the parents that will be unable to pay for college or have sticker shock when the times come.

And most Ivies have no tuition or reduced tuition for low income (150k-100k or less) families.

So I understand how a family making less than 100k in the greater Boston area would jump at the chance to send their kids to the top notch school at a reduced cost.

[The Captain]

Religious affiliation would have nothing to do with it.

A lot would depend on how far above the rest of the area schools the "best school" is.

If there was a huge gap (as in best school was light years better) then I'd do anything.  If it was only slightly better, then I probably wouldn't.

Sissy and I were in that position in HS.  I didn't realize we were in the "poor" crowd because dress code was very strict (down to the types of shoes you could wear) and I really can't tell if diamonds are real or not.

Only found out when the guy who I was dating took me to meet his parents, and his grandparents, and his cousin (bitch) who went to the same school as I did.

She was mortified when she found out who he was dating.  Apparently the "rich" crowd was able to pick out the "poor crowd" with ease.  I'm so glad his parents and grandparents had more class then she did.

[Deleted]

Oct 27, 2015 7:49:56 GMT -5 steph08 said:

Like shooby, I don't believe that your school district is the be-all-end-all in determining how your kid is going to turn out.

But it looks like everyone would get massive aid at that school anyway, so nobody is paying sticker price. If you really lived somewhere crappy and only had to pay 3k/year - I would probably do it. There will be other kids there on aid just like your kid.

I went to a private college whose sticker price was up there, but with the aid, I paid less for it than if I had gone to the local state school. My parents' income was probably in the lower third of all the kids there but it didn't matter.

If people making up to 89K/year can send their kids for 3K/year, there's probably plenty of lower income kids attending as well. 

[Wisconsin Beth]

Carl - I'm not really commenting on the cost/opportunities side. 

What I've run into this last year or so is Sunday School/Catechism classes and time.  My kids are in public schools so we have to fit that in whereas if they'd gone to the Catholic school, Reconciliation and 1st Communion would be handled as part of religion classes.  As it is, my church is doing a fairly lazy version of it and it's every other Sunday before Mass and it's not hard to fit into our schedule.  Some of my kids' friends attend the same school but other parishes where it's every Monday night for an hour the entire school year.  Or Thursday night.  This varies widely between parishes and you're going to want something that will work with you and Mrs. C's work schedules.  Obviously you have time on this. 

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Carl, it is also important to know what the student population looks like.

The Winsor School, because of its location, is locally considered the school that the daughters of top Boston doctors who work at top Boston hospitals attend.  The lower incomes that receive the financial aid?  Medical residents, medical fellows, and young docs not making the big bucks yet.  It's a great school, and no doubt many of the girls and families are bright and welcoming, but consider who your child would socialize with and whether that is the world you want her to try and fit into.  Just because kids rub shoulders together doesn't necessarily mean any of it sticks.  Yes, a low-income girl at a school like Windsor will have access to experiences and opportunities she might not get in her hometown district.  But, there will also always be a gap between her life experiences and her classmates'.  Some kids handle that gap with aplomb.  Others find it demoralizing and exclusive.  Just depends upon the kid.  

FWIW, you can pay the same price as Winsor for top Catholic schools, too -- Newton Country Day for girls and St. Sebastian's for boys.  There are also mid-price options -- Ursuline Academy and Boston College High School.  Then, less expensive schools such as Marian and Matignon.

You've got time to figure it out, but when the time approaches, let me know and I'll be glad to share my own knowledge.  We tried desperately to find a private school for ODS (smaller classes, more personal attention) because of his learning disabilities.  I've looked at everything from Montessori to Waldorf to coed private schools to all-boys schools to Catholic schools and everything in between.  Unfortunately, even though we found some really fabulous options for ODS, it was not to be -- for him.  

[giramomma]

We do Catholic school. And, yes, I would likely consider private school, and give my kids as many advantages as I can. It's what we're trying to do now.

We are poor in my kids' private school. That world is something else. SAHMs have nannies. Parents drop 2K on ONE kid for Christmas (this family has four kids...Dropping a likely 10K on Christmas, total, blows my mind). Everyone has an iProduct before age 10. I could go on and on. It's assumed that your kids will be well traveled (including abroad) before they hit high school.

Honestly, it's never been a problem.

Connections get you places, and I think connections are easier to make and leverage if you are around people with means. 

And it all depends on what my kids want to do. So far, my oldest wants to have it all: nice house, nice cars, regular travel, including abroad, perhaps a vacation home, and a family. He's not getting all that on our household income.. We've been very upfront with him that that kind of life takes money and a better job than I have. His friends have access to these things, because their parents bring home minimally twice as much as we do. Many of his friends have parents in upper level management. It's easier to get those jobs with having had a solid education, a good work ethic, and connections.

(As an aside, we've heard the middle class is going away. We are solidly middle class, and eventually a HH income of 100K isn't going to cut it anymore. I can totally see that happening in my kids' lifetime. To counsel them that they can live like us in their adulthood would be absolutely foolish.)

I am also glad that the kids get religion in school. Otherwise, it's right in the middle of your Sunday. Every week during the school year. They also are getting a foundation in a faith. Something I never received, and wish I did. I know it will backfire. BIL went to Catholic school and is an atheist. But, at least my kids will know something. And as they proceed through their adulthood, they can make their own decisions.

[Shooby]

Oct 27, 2015 8:13:04 GMT -5 swamp said:

No, I wouldn't.

I don't care if my kids make all the connections necessary to become president, be a fortune 500 CEO, or run the world.

I just want them to be happy productive people.

Me neither. I honestly don't get all the hysteria over Schools. My oldest son barely slid to the finish line in High School. He was a C student. But ,now he is school to become an electrician and is doing great and is turning 20 soon and I am very proud of the fine young man he has become. I guess being associated with some "name" or club or pedigree holds no appeal to us whatsoever. I don't care. I just want my kids to be productive citizens who take care of themselves, their families and contribute to society and make the world a better place by doing those things.

[Shooby]

I have seen people putting themselves into financial dire straits just to send their kid to some Private school. Seems pretty silly to me.

[cktc]

I'd be leery of starting my kid(s) off with scholarship requirements. I mean, what is involved other than income bracket? Testing, extra-curricular activities, maintaining a certain grade? What if one kid can keep up and the other can't? I'd rather start them off in a more inclusive environment, and re-evaluate if it falls up short for their ambitions.

[Deleted]

Oct 27, 2015 7:46:30 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Unless I was living in a ghetto or was ubber religious, I can't see myself sending my kids to any private schools.

How about if your kid is falling through the cracks in an "excellent" public school system (Bergen County, NJ) and nothing else you've tried works?  My son went to NY Military Academy for HS and it was worth every penny.  What's interesting is that he lived with and worked with a far more diverse group of kids than he would have encountered in our suburb.  It was a plus I hadn't expected.

But, to get back to the OP.  My answer is that it would depend on the budget and the kid.  Move into a good public school district and put them in private school only if it offers something they're not getting in public school.  If I had a kid who was burning to be a President or a CEO and I thought he/she had the possibility of making it, I'd be more inclined to go for it.  If they're headed for a good, respectable, middle-management job or a field where Ivy League connections don't get you much,  I'd be more inclined to keep them in public schools.

[Deleted]

Oct 27, 2015 9:43:53 GMT -5 cktc said:

I'd be leery of starting my kid(s) off with scholarship requirements. I mean, what is involved other than income bracket? Testing, extra-curricular activities, maintaining a certain grade? What if one kid can keep up and the other can't? I'd rather start them off in a more inclusive environment, and re-evaluate if it falls up short for their ambitions.

I'm considering sending older son to a private high school, and the scholarship is purely income based. 

I'm more interested in putting him where I think he'll do best than I care about the public/private thing.  We have two options.  A very large public school and a small more family atmosphere private.  We don't live where there are huge income differences...or at least they're probably similar at both schools.  I do like that all the kids at the private are from families where college after high school is expected.  We were set on the private, but now that it's coming down to the wire I'm starting to question again and he's developed somewhat of an opinion on the matter.  He never cared at all one way or another before. 

[cael]

Oct 27, 2015 9:43:13 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I have seen people putting themselves into financial dire straits just to send their kid to some Private school. Seems pretty silly to me.

Yeah. My parents did a debt management/consolidation thingie a while back for all their CC debt, much of which was incurred so we could attend our private school. They just finished paying it off maybe 6 years ago... and I've been out of that school for almost 20 years now. They felt it was worth it.. I can't say I completely agree, but I am grateful they put themselves in that position to do something for us they considered so important. I would not do what they did.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Oct 27, 2015 9:49:27 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Oct 27, 2015 7:46:30 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Unless I was living in a ghetto or was ubber religious, I can't see myself sending my kids to any private schools.

How about if your kid is falling through the cracks in an "excellent" public school system (Bergen County, NJ) and nothing else you've tried works?  My son went to NY Military Academy for HS and it was worth every penny.  What's interesting is that he lived with and worked with a far more diverse group of kids than he would have encountered in our suburb.  It was a plus I hadn't expected.

But, to get back to the OP.  My answer is that it would depend on the budget and the kid.  Move into a good public school district and put them in private school only if it offers something they're not getting in public school.  If I had a kid who was burning to be a President or a CEO and I thought he/she had the possibility of making it, I'd be more inclined to go for it.  If they're headed for a good, respectable, middle-management job or a field where Ivy League connections don't get you much,  I'd be more inclined to keep them in public schools.

The "falling through the cracks" piece should not be underestimated.

Funny thing, though, for us, it was YDS who fell through the cracks, especially in high school.  No mentoring, no push to take Honors or AP classes, and this is in a top public school district.  The look on his Guidance Counselor's face when I told him YDS's SAT scores (on the first try) was proof that YDS slid along just under the radar.  YDS did attend a private school for 7th grade and thrived.  He would have stayed had ODS been accepted a year later for high school.  When ODS was rejected off of the waiting list (is that even a thing?), YDS decided to return to public school.  I regret that every day.  

[Deleted]

Oct 27, 2015 9:37:51 GMT -5 giramomma said:

I am also glad that the kids get religion in school. Otherwise, it's right in the middle of your Sunday. Every week during the school year. They also are getting a foundation in a faith. Something I never received, and wish I did. I know it will backfire. BIL went to Catholic school and is an atheist. But, at least my kids will know something. And as they proceed through their adulthood, they can make their own decisions.

This is one of the main drawbacks to the private option for me.   

[mojothehelpermonkey]

I was one of the poor kids at the university where I got my bachelors degree. It was awkward sometimes. One girl politely mentioned to me that since I was usually too broke to go out on the weekends, I should just ask my parents to increase my allowance. It was still worth it for me, and I wasn't a social outcast or anything. Also, I got to see that the grass isn't always greener. A lot of the kids whose parents were footing the entire bill didn't get to pick their own majors.
My roommate from college went to an expensive private high school where she was one of the poorest kids. She was still middle class, but most of her classmates' families were very wealthy. That sounded like more of a challenge, probably because high school kids can be even more clueless and mean than college kids.

[Lizard Queen]

I almost pulled my son out of his school and sent him to the parochial school that he attended in Preschool last year.  It would have cost us ~ $1400 for the year.  We don't currently attend church regularly (for reasons I won't discuss here), but want him to have a good religious foundation.  IMO, I believe a good religious foundation will make it less likely for him to get caught up in some weird-ass religious cult.  That would be much worse than if he were to become an atheist as an adult, IMO.

He is attending a good mostly middle-class public school, but his peers are a little, um, rougher than at the private school--just a little though.  (Playing with "killing" involved now--for a 5 yo--WTF??)  There was a recent study suggesting that the school isn't the biggest factor of success as an adult, but the peer group is.  His class has 25 students, while the class at the private school would have been less than 16.  He is on the quiet side, and he's already demonstrated that he is not showing the teacher all that he knows, probably due to teacher time-constraints or performance anxiety in front of a larger class.  He did make a BFF, which is why I ultimately did not pull him out.

But yeah, I would look at the peer group more than anything, and if they're a bunch of stuck up a-holes, I would avoid the private school.  The people at the school I was considering are all ridiculously nice.

[midjd]

The best decision truly depends on the kid. Some would thrive in the situation described in the OP, others would probably develop an inferiority complex. Some do well with Montessori, others need more structure. Very hard to say what the right call for a hypothetical kid would be. 

I still don't know what we're doing for DD's school (and I'm a planner to the nth degree). I went to a crappy public school from K-12 and wish I had gone private... I graduated near the top of my class but still had a LOT of catching up to do in college and law school. Luckily the public schools here are much better. DD's personality is very different from mine, so I'm not going to foist my vicarious dreams onto her just yet.

[cktc]

Oct 27, 2015 9:52:36 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oct 27, 2015 9:43:53 GMT -5 cktc said:

I'd be leery of starting my kid(s) off with scholarship requirements. I mean, what is involved other than income bracket? Testing, extra-curricular activities, maintaining a certain grade? What if one kid can keep up and the other can't? I'd rather start them off in a more inclusive environment, and re-evaluate if it falls up short for their ambitions.

I'm considering sending older son to a private high school, and the scholarship is purely income based. 

I'm more interested in putting him where I think he'll do best than I care about the public/private thing.  We have two options.  A very large public school and a small more family atmosphere private.  We don't live where there are huge income differences...or at least they're probably similar at both schools.  I do like that all the kids at the private are from families where college after high school is expected.  We were set on the private, but now that it's coming down to the wire I'm starting to question again and he's developed somewhat of an opinion on the matter.  He never cared at all one way or another before. 

Oh that's got to be a tough call. Has your son grown closer to his peer group so he doesn't want to switch to private?  I might be inclined to base the decision on how good or bad of an influence his friends are.

[Deleted]

I think my hangup with the public here is I went to it and I know how much they don't give a shit about the kids.  I had a lot of problems in school that weren't related to academics but manifested themselves in bad grades and seriously, nobody cared.  I remember going to the counseling office begging for help and being turned away.  I was a junior and walked out that day for good.  Never stepped in that school again for at least 25 years. 

Now, to be fair, that was a long time ago.  Things may have changed a lot, but it's still a large school and just walking in there makes me cringe with bad memories.