alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Oct 15, 2015 14:36:25 GMT -5
My DH was a teacher back in the 80s. He never made as much as I did (engineer), but he did ok. He quit teaching when kid #3 was born and it would have been 3 in daycare. It was our choice to have 3 kids so close together. He did not like being Mr. Mom so he started a business. He never made as much money as he did teaching.
My son's fiance is finishing up her masters degree and is will be ready to teach next school year. She is looking for job in Washington DC (that is where my son lives). Starting pay will be over $50k plus there are incentive bonuses if you teach in one of the low income schools. She is young and idealistic (don't know how long that will last), but she will be making good money.
Teaching does not pay as well as other majors, but other than the recent recession, is pretty much guaranteed job. And you have summers off.
Not too bad.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Oct 15, 2015 14:39:25 GMT -5
Also my kids went to a private school in GA. We lived in an area of terrible public schools. Many of the teachers at the private school taught there while they had school age kids. They took the lower pay (than public schools) and got a tuition discount. Of course tuition there was ~$6k when my youngest graduated 3 years ago.
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lund
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Post by lund on Oct 15, 2015 14:56:09 GMT -5
He sounds more than a bit spoiled and not in control of his expenses.
I can understand living in a good school district. But private school for two children? Shouldn't they be able to go to the local good schools?
A soccer mom driving all over the area? If the children's activities are too expensive, they should have to scale them down.
The lifestyle sounds pretty good for two teachers.
I would suggest:
No private school. If this is a "must", then adjustments need to be made in other areas.....
Less sports and activities that demand driving around or are expensive.
No eating out. It is not difficult at all for a family of six frequently eating out to spend more than a car payment each month doing so.
A good check of where the remaining money is spent. I would not be surprised if they overspend in a lot of other areas.
Some places to check:
Vacation - gets expensive for six
Sports and activities - can be very expensive, especially if there is playing on traveling teams or in a sport with a lot of private training required (for instance figure skating).
Hobbies - a membership in a golf club, for instance.
Eating at home - if the planning is bad there may be a lot of uneaten left-overs, foods that are out of season and expensive, food that is bought frozen and ready-made, or they may buy only organic and free-range, or be into some modern fad (raw food for instance).
Home electronics, phones and TV - cable channels, game systems,....
Socializing may be "expected" to a certain degree. But it costs and the costs may need to be curbed.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 15, 2015 14:57:52 GMT -5
I think it depends really... My department managers make anywhere from 50k to 70k. You are not RICH by any means but you are a far cry from poor. 2 department managers married to each other (not unheard off in my business) are bringing home a pretty penny. The kid in meat that has a high school diploma but high drive that I recommended for the cutter training program is now making $22.26/HR or $46,300/year before Overtime and he is 20. You will not be able to afford "private schools" but you won't be on Food stamps either. -> Basically the 20 year old that took 6 months to learn how to cut meat is making more than my wife in academia with a bachelors + masters degree. But my grandpa wasn't a department manager. He worked in a department store where he was a regular employee who sold curtains or something. Either they made way more money than they do now or it was way cheaper to live back then. IDK - I do think it was cheaper back then but there a lot of things these days that are more or less considered necessities that weren't back then. How many kids today share a bedroom? Back then having your own room didn't happen very often. New clothes were pretty much non-existent except for possibly the oldest of each gender and even then that is debatable. A lot of people made their own clothing. I am not sure about your grandparents but mine grew a lot of their own food and also slaughtered a lot of their own meat. Even when I was a kid I remember my grandfather going to the grocery store and the only thing he would bring back was flour and sugar. A lot of the things we view as necessary these days are actually just conveniences. I have been without a cell phone since Friday. It is my only phone. I have found that it truly is not a necessity but has made life slightly inconvenient. I can't text people when I need the answer to a simple question and if I am driving to unfamiliar territory I have to print the directions off prior to leaving. I hope to have a phone again starting tomorrow and in the meantime I really hope I don't get a flat tire or something because that would truly suck! |
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Oct 15, 2015 15:07:44 GMT -5
But my grandpa wasn't a department manager. He worked in a department store where he was a regular employee who sold curtains or something. Either they made way more money than they do now or it was way cheaper to live back then. IDK - I do think it was cheaper back then but there a lot of things these days that are more or less considered necessities that weren't back then. How many kids today share a bedroom? Back then having your own room didn't happen very often. New clothes were pretty much non-existent except for possibly the oldest of each gender and even then that is debatable. A lot of people made their own clothing. I am not sure about your grandparents but mine grew a lot of their own food and also slaughtered a lot of their own meat. Even when I was a kid I remember my grandfather going to the grocery store and the only thing he would bring back was flour and sugar. A lot of the things we view as necessary these days are actually just conveniences. I have been without a cell phone since Friday. It is my only phone. I have found that it truly is not a necessity but has made life slightly inconvenient. I can't text people when I need the answer to a simple question and if I am driving to unfamiliar territory I have to print the directions off prior to leaving. I hope to have a phone again starting tomorrow and in the meantime I really hope I don't get a flat tire or something because that would truly suck! Like I already said, that may be true that the definition is different. But someone that has a job at Costco can not have a house in a decent suburb, forget about any other expenses. |
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 15, 2015 15:26:47 GMT -5
IDK - I do think it was cheaper back then but there a lot of things these days that are more or less considered necessities that weren't back then. How many kids today share a bedroom? Back then having your own room didn't happen very often. New clothes were pretty much non-existent except for possibly the oldest of each gender and even then that is debatable. A lot of people made their own clothing. I am not sure about your grandparents but mine grew a lot of their own food and also slaughtered a lot of their own meat. Even when I was a kid I remember my grandfather going to the grocery store and the only thing he would bring back was flour and sugar. A lot of the things we view as necessary these days are actually just conveniences. I have been without a cell phone since Friday. It is my only phone. I have found that it truly is not a necessity but has made life slightly inconvenient. I can't text people when I need the answer to a simple question and if I am driving to unfamiliar territory I have to print the directions off prior to leaving. I hope to have a phone again starting tomorrow and in the meantime I really hope I don't get a flat tire or something because that would truly suck! Like I already said, that may be true that the definition is different. But someone that has a job at Costco can not have a house in a decent suburb, forget about any other expenses. True. I live in a MCOLA and buying on 60K a year is challenging. I am in the process of looking to buy and the only thing I can really afford is a condo. |
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lund
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Post by lund on Oct 15, 2015 15:38:46 GMT -5
I think that the middle class situation has changed from both sides.
The people in it expect a higher standard of living, like larger homes, two- or three-car garages, two or three cars, one bedroom per child, a living room and a family room and often a den too, yearly vacations, hobbies and memberships (sports clubs,...), TV and electronics (cable, game systems,...), computers and internet (tablets, cell phones,..), much and modern clothing, eating out or buying ready-made, having food expectations of variation and variety as if in a restaurant (for instance there used to be the one or perhaps two breakfast choices each season, there was a number of meatless dinners, and fall meant eating root vegetables and pumpkins until you hardly could stand the look of them anymore), hiring people to mow lawns and do other outside work, hiring people to clean their homes, and so on. And they are often not able to grow some of their own food cheaply anymore - not enough garden space, no knowledge, no time, or they will not eat what will grow well where they live. (Nothing strange about that - for instance we tend to eat less rutabaga nowadays...)
But the jobs are not secure anymore, there are hardly any pensions (and if they are, they may not be generous or even "livable" anymore), the costs for education are higher than ever (and many want to pay their parents' help forward to their own children, or try to secure them a good start in their adult financial lives), the household may need two cars for the parents to get to work, they may live further out in suburbia from work, insurance costs have gone up a lot too, and so have the relative basic living costs.
So it is a squeeze between wanting more and getting less in some areas.
But I would guess that also the low-income are getting squeezed, but in another way. The working poor may be very hard-working, but still be in a difficult financial position. The old people with low fixed income may be hard hit by having to pay more, especially for things like medication.
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Post by mojothehelpermonkey on Oct 15, 2015 16:00:26 GMT -5
When did 3 car garage become the norm? I am noticing that more and more with the McMansions being built : 3 car garage is the new requirement. When did we graduate from 2 to 3... I have 1 and some days I do wish I had a 2 car garage (snow/ice storms) but besides that it does not bother me. My parent's house had a 2 car garage, but it also had a 10 foot area the full width of the garage (the cars nosed up to it, and it was a small step up.) It was really nice to have a place to keep the bikes, the lawn mower and the workbench and all the tools. At this point, I would rather have that kind of storage than a place to put my car. Bikes are easily stolen, and have a weird, bulky shape. Because we don't have snow or ice, my car can live in the elements - although I really like having it in the shade in the summer. That minimizes those brutal steering wheel burns. I think the norm went to 3 car garages when everyone had so much shit in their garage they couldn't fit a car in there. Unfortunately, when they got that third stall - they just filled that with shit too, and their cars are still out on the driveway. I feel like a lot of these types of articles can be summarized as whining about how hard you work just so you can afford a house big enough to fit all the stuff that you need to have and pay for all the expensive hobbies that you don't have time to enjoy because you are working so hard... I don't think this represents most of the people who are really struggling right now, but these types of whiners seem to get their stories published more often. |
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 15, 2015 16:01:39 GMT -5
I stopped reading when he started going off about Bruce Springstein.
Their household income is 150k or something and he's whining? Whatever, man.
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Post by mojothehelpermonkey on Oct 15, 2015 16:15:13 GMT -5
Really  You are getting paid, why do you care if it is coming from rich people? No kidding! I work for rich people. It doesn't bother me in the least! It does become comical from time to time, however, when they completely forget I make 1/4 of what they do and they say something like "oh, you should buy those shoes. They would look so cute on you." Uh, those are $800 shoes... Rich people are great! They helped me attend an expensive private school with minimal loans. I like to think some of them didn't even mind subsidizing me by paying sticker price for the tuition because I got to expand their kids' horizons by showing them what life without a trust fund is like. |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 15, 2015 16:15:20 GMT -5
My parents had 3 of us in braces in the 80s. My older siblings both needed full braces. I got partial ones to deal with 1 tooth. I've got a bit of a crossbite that should have been addressed then but the money wasn't there. So I think parents need to evaluate braces for the kid. The crossbite never bothered me and hasn't hindered me in the least. The front tooth that came in sideways probably would have. But my parents also had an honest orthodontist (father and son team), who gave them a discount on my braces as it was. As for the article, I didn't read it. My sister had 4 kids in braces over a period of 12 years or so - usually 2 at a time - and one went through a second round. The last one finally got her braces off a couple months ago. I suspect she could have gotten a rather nice car for what she paid the orthodontist, but all 4 kids have beautiful teeth, so that should never hold them back. |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 15, 2015 16:21:08 GMT -5
There is this misconception that people that work retail or a grocery store are poor.
Yes maybe our part timers but if you have the drive to become a full timer, assistant dept manager, department manager or higher (assistant or store manager).... The money is pretty sweet!
And the fact it is not a "glamorous" job has kept the competition low/away.
My Regional Vice President started as a part time night crew clerk, my old DM started as a cart kid (so did my current DM)... You work your ass off and work your way up.
Even at store manager, it is not bad. I make $80,500 and I am one of the "cheap" ones payroll wise. 2 store manager married to each other are pulling in 185k/year , they are 32 and 35. Not bad for 2 college drop outs that did not let that stop them...
When my dad was working after he retired, despite the fact he was collecting SS and his pension, he worked behind the fish counter at one of the local grocery stores. He adored that job, probably more than any other job he ever held. He was a really personable man, knew his fish and how to cook it and could give pointers on what his customers needed to look for. In fact, when he went to the grocery store and wasn't working, most times customers would approach him about what looked good that day in the display case and how to cook it.
The general manager of the store wanted to promote him to manager, and he wanted nothing to do with it. It would have cut into his fishing/beer time and he was doing this for something additional to do during retirement, not to support himself. I know that they wanted to keep him there so bad that he was paid waaaay more than minimum wage.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Oct 15, 2015 16:47:23 GMT -5
The middle class of today is very different from the middle class back then. Two cars instead of one (or none). Washing machine and drier. TV, cable, internet, smart phones etc. Eating out more than once a month (if that). DD had a classmate who was the oldest of 5 (yes five!!!) girls. All went to catholic school and the mom was a SAHP. In reality the three youngest went pretty much for free. When her friend would come over for a sleepover there was no interest in the WII or other electronic stuff because they didn't have that at their home. Uno and board games were her thing along with art. The Dad was a sales rep for some type of tool company (like snap on but not them) so yea, he got a company car. I don't know what he makes but they seemed to do ok. The middle class today is different than prior years with more expenses being viewed as "necessary". But come on....an employee working at a department store, living in a nice suburb of chicago, having a wife that stays home, 6 kids, and sending them all to catholic grade school/HS, and sending 4 of them to college. I'm sure my mom worked through school, but even so. The cost of the catholic school alone would exceed the department store worker's salary. I actually know someone that lives like someone in the 50's. 1 car, no tv, no cable, no internet, no new clothes, and a husband that works full-time. They rent a 3 bedroom place in a really run down area, the kids go to public school, and they barely can make ends meet (he's a construction worker). hate to break it to you - but odds are some of the 6 kids were riding for free at the Catholic Grade school and possibly even the Catholic HS. Generally the first kid is 'full price' the tuition goes down for each additional kid. Back in the 70's my Catholic grade school tuition was discounted to $15 a term - so $30 for a 'school year'. Yep, I was the last of 4 kids. I think once my dad died (my mom was a SAHM and managed to live on SS and pension from my dad) I probably went for free... we were 'poor' at that point.
I know my SIL's parents (back in the 60/70s) managed to put 7 kids thru Catholic gradeschool and then various Catholic HS on his income and then her mom's part time income. There's no way they were paying full tuition for all the kids-- there was barely a 2 year gap between kids (and a couple of sets of Irish twins<-- sorry I know that's a terrible phrase to use but I can't think of a better euphemism or word to describe two babies born in the same year or within a 12 month period)... that means 7 tuition bills for years and years.
I'm sure they had discounted tuition and or "scholarships" to cover the costs.
I dont' think you can compare past "private school" costs to current "private school" costs.
FWIW: I would have gotten a better education at the local public school than the old dilapidated Private School taught by nuns so old they sometimes dozed off at the lectern while they had us kids recite/read something in rote one after another - or at their desk after they had assigned 30 minutes of 'quiet time' where we were suppose to write out spelling words or the times tables in rote...
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Post by mojothehelpermonkey on Oct 15, 2015 16:48:50 GMT -5
The middle class today is different than prior years with more expenses being viewed as "necessary". But come on....an employee working at a department store, living in a nice suburb of chicago, having a wife that stays home, 6 kids, and sending them all to catholic grade school/HS, and sending 4 of them to college. I'm sure my mom worked through school, but even so. The cost of the catholic school alone would exceed the department store worker's salary. I actually know someone that lives like someone in the 50's. 1 car, no tv, no cable, no internet, no new clothes, and a husband that works full-time. They rent a 3 bedroom place in a really run down area, the kids go to public school, and they barely can make ends meet (he's a construction worker). I think it depends really... My department managers make anywhere from 50k to 70k. You are not RICH by any means but you are a far cry from poor. 2 department managers married to each other (not unheard off in my business) are bringing home a pretty penny. The kid in meat that has a high school diploma but high drive that I recommended for the cutter training program is now making $22.26/HR or $46,300/year before Overtime and he is 20. You will not be able to afford "private schools" but you won't be on Food stamps either. -> Basically the 20 year old that took 6 months to learn how to cut meat is making more than my wife in academia with a bachelors + masters degree. This was the pay rate for some of the positions that a recruiter was showing me that require at least a BS degree and involve trouble shooting issues with medical devices. I live in a HCOL area too. |
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Oct 15, 2015 17:05:40 GMT -5
I think it depends really... My department managers make anywhere from 50k to 70k. You are not RICH by any means but you are a far cry from poor. 2 department managers married to each other (not unheard off in my business) are bringing home a pretty penny. The kid in meat that has a high school diploma but high drive that I recommended for the cutter training program is now making $22.26/HR or $46,300/year before Overtime and he is 20. You will not be able to afford "private schools" but you won't be on Food stamps either. -> Basically the 20 year old that took 6 months to learn how to cut meat is making more than my wife in academia with a bachelors + masters degree.This was the pay rate for some of the positions that a recruiter was showing me that require at least a BS degree and involve trouble shooting issues with medical devices. I live in a HCOL area too. Yes, but there's trade offs. The 20 year old probably will top out pay wise within 10 years. If he doesn't make the move to management or to some other line of work - he's at the top of his income scale. OdDs are your wife will continue to get increases in pay EVEN IF SHE DOES THE EXACT SAME JOB FOR 30 years. She will also possibly have plenty of opportunities to increase her pay substantially thru out her life long career WHILE REMAINING A "TEACHER". I'd rather be a lifelong 50 yo "underpaid" teacher earning 100K than an "underpaid" lifelong 50 yo meat cutter earning 60K
I suspect a teacher has a bit more job security than a 'meat cutter'. Even if they both are in unions. Grocery stores and packing plants come and go... schools tend to be a bit more consistent.
I suspect a teacher will NEVER have to work a weekend or a holiday. I suspect the 'meat cutter' may feel pressured to work holidays and weekends - for the pay OR to not be seen as "lazy" or "unreliable" by management so he gets the shifts he wants.
I suspect a "meat cutter" might have to work more than 8 hours in a day - more often than a handful of times during the year like say a teacher who has to stay 'late' for teacher/parent conferences or 'open house' a couple of times during the school year.
I'm NOT saying that teachers don't 'work hard' or put in a lot of hours... There's just trade offs in compensation. (FWIW: my local grade schools will have their first full 5 days of school next week. MY gosh, the teachers are going to be exhausted after having the kids for 5 days straight... it's such a burden).
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Oct 15, 2015 17:25:09 GMT -5
This isn't a story about teacher's being under paid. It's a story about choices. And the poor choices that this family made. Choices: Two PhD's (I assume) without recognition of the economic reality that there are probably 5 PhD's for every professorship. And that professorships often don't pay all that well until you start to draw your pension. Four children. Gee, that's $1,000,000 you don't get to spend on new cars, according stats from the USDA. Close to 30 new cars you don't get. $32K a year for private schools, while you acknowledge that you live in a high quality school district ?? Resident of metro NY that drives almost 25K miles a year? Really, 25K? I commute 45 miles a day and put less than 15K a year on a car. Our car that gets the additional road trip miles has accumulated only a little over 16K a year over the last 9 years. Two dogs at $1K each per year. Over 15 years, that's a new minivan. A family that appears to earn over $150K, more than triple the national average household income, can't live on what it earns? Pfffffft! And it's not about being a teacher. In our "low paying" school district, a teacher with several years experience and a masters earns $55K (more than 20% more than the average household income in our area). Plus full district paid employee medical. And the district contributes an amount equal to 21% of their pay to their retirement account (so those teachers can enjoy a quite comfortable retirement without having to save part of their net pay to fund their retirement). All in all, I think it's fair to say that a teacher's income in most parts of the country puts teachers firmly in the ranks of the upper half of the middle class. So I don't think this guy has anything to fuss about. More than 50% of the country has it worse than he does! ETA: By the way, any claims or inference that a teacher's standard of living has deteriorated over the years is not true. I know because I was there. Sixty years ago, I was the youngest child of a school teacher. We had one car, not two. That car was purchased well used, not new. And Dad did most of the repairs while laying in a dirt driveway. He couldn't afford to pay someone else to fix the car. We didn't have a house until I was about four years old. We lived in a trailer down along the river, next to the highway. And had to pull the trailer out in the middle of the night because the river was flooding. When the folks were able to buy a house, it didn't have a garage. The car sat outside in a snow bank in 30 below MN winters. But it started most of the time. We three boys shared a single bedroom. We wore a lot of hand me down clothes provided by friends and family. Pants and shirts with patches were the dress of the day. It's likely that our only clothes without patches were our church clothes. As we got old enough, we had a bike. That we shared. That was purchased for us by a close family friend. While we were probably middle class (pants with patches were common in those days), I suspect we were on the lower end of the middle class. |
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Oct 15, 2015 17:40:55 GMT -5
Yes, my kids go to school with "middle class" families where the other families biggest complaint is not getting to spend enough time at their lake "cottage." Or a suitable Christmas gift for an 11 year old is flying down to Florida to see a professional football game with Dad. (And that's one of four kids.) Sorry if you have a second house ... A lake cottage at that; you are not middle class in my book! Is everyone trying to "fit" into the middle class nowadays? Is that the new "brag"plaint? Oh I am so poor I could not afford the Audi I wanted but settled for a BMW? We could only do 1 week at the Cape this year vs our usual 2, the prices are outrageous. 2 pharmacists telling me with a straight face how it is hard on them lately being middle class, right after telling us about their vacation trip to Hawaii for one and France for the other. Really! Yup. We find we have to bite our tongue, a lot, actually. |
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Oct 15, 2015 17:51:44 GMT -5
The middle class today is different than prior years with more expenses being viewed as "necessary". But come on....an employee working at a department store, living in a nice suburb of chicago, having a wife that stays home, 6 kids, and sending them all to catholic grade school/HS, and sending 4 of them to college. I'm sure my mom worked through school, but even so. The cost of the catholic school alone would exceed the department store worker's salary. I actually know someone that lives like someone in the 50's. 1 car, no tv, no cable, no internet, no new clothes, and a husband that works full-time. They rent a 3 bedroom place in a really run down area, the kids go to public school, and they barely can make ends meet (he's a construction worker). hate to break it to you - but odds are some of the 6 kids were riding for free at the Catholic Grade school and possibly even the Catholic HS. Generally the first kid is 'full price' the tuition goes down for each additional kid. Back in the 70's my Catholic grade school tuition was discounted to $15 a term - so $30 for a 'school year'. Yep, I was the last of 4 kids. I think once my dad died (my mom was a SAHM and managed to live on SS and pension from my dad) I probably went for free... we were 'poor' at that point.
I know my SIL's parents (back in the 60/70s) managed to put 7 kids thru Catholic gradeschool and then various Catholic HS on his income and then her mom's part time income. There's no way they were paying full tuition for all the kids-- there was barely a 2 year gap between kids (and a couple of sets of Irish twins<-- sorry I know that's a terrible phrase to use but I can't think of a better euphemism or word to describe two babies born in the same year or within a 12 month period)... that means 7 tuition bills for years and years.
I'm sure they had discounted tuition and or "scholarships" to cover the costs.
I dont' think you can compare past "private school" costs to current "private school" costs.
FWIW: I would have gotten a better education at the local public school than the old dilapidated Private School taught by nuns so old they sometimes dozed off at the lectern while they had us kids recite/read something in rote one after another - or at their desk after they had assigned 30 minutes of 'quiet time' where we were suppose to write out spelling words or the times tables in rote...
Why would you hate to break that to me? You are making assumptions on how they afforded it, it's not a fact. Besides, it's not like catholic schools have a buy one kid get the next 5 half off policy. You usually get a slight discount for subsequent kids, it's not a huge break. |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 15, 2015 19:01:43 GMT -5
hate to break it to you - but odds are some of the 6 kids were riding for free at the Catholic Grade school and possibly even the Catholic HS. Generally the first kid is 'full price' the tuition goes down for each additional kid. Back in the 70's my Catholic grade school tuition was discounted to $15 a term - so $30 for a 'school year'. Yep, I was the last of 4 kids. I think once my dad died (my mom was a SAHM and managed to live on SS and pension from my dad) I probably went for free... we were 'poor' at that point.
I know my SIL's parents (back in the 60/70s) managed to put 7 kids thru Catholic gradeschool and then various Catholic HS on his income and then her mom's part time income. There's no way they were paying full tuition for all the kids-- there was barely a 2 year gap between kids (and a couple of sets of Irish twins<-- sorry I know that's a terrible phrase to use but I can't think of a better euphemism or word to describe two babies born in the same year or within a 12 month period)... that means 7 tuition bills for years and years.
I'm sure they had discounted tuition and or "scholarships" to cover the costs.
I dont' think you can compare past "private school" costs to current "private school" costs.
FWIW: I would have gotten a better education at the local public school than the old dilapidated Private School taught by nuns so old they sometimes dozed off at the lectern while they had us kids recite/read something in rote one after another - or at their desk after they had assigned 30 minutes of 'quiet time' where we were suppose to write out spelling words or the times tables in rote...
Why would you hate to break that to me? You are making assumptions on how they afforded it, it's not a fact. Besides, it's not like catholic schools have a buy one kid get the next 5 half off policy. You usually get a slight discount for subsequent kids, it's not a huge break. When I went to Catholic school, you essentially did not pay after the third child at the school I went to. My tuition was full price, my sister's was about 2/3 that and I think my youngest brother was about 1/3 of that. We ran out of kids, so for 3 kids, my folks paid full tuition for 2. Any kids after the third were free. That's how the several families that had 5-6 kids in the system were getting through. They paid the same for 6 that my folks paid for 3. |
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taxref
Junior Member
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Post by taxref on Oct 15, 2015 19:36:27 GMT -5
I started in public accounting in 1986. One of the first things I learned was that, no matter how much money one earns, its always possible to overspend. This man has done that. He flat out states he lives in an area with good public schools, but he insists on spending a huge amount on private school tuition. The title of his article should have been, "I went broke educating *my* kids.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Oct 15, 2015 21:56:35 GMT -5
I think this is a good example of how the security of the middle class has deteriorated over the last generation. I know we like to blame all the overspending and all the stupid examples like the teacher in the article, but realistically would this even be possible today if a family were financially prudent in all other areas? The middle class of today is very different from the middle class back then. Two cars instead of one (or none). Washing machine and drier. TV, cable, internet, smart phones etc. Eating out more than once a month (if that). DD had a classmate who was the oldest of 5 (yes five!!!) girls. All went to catholic school and the mom was a SAHP. In reality the three youngest went pretty much for free. When her friend would come over for a sleepover there was no interest in the WII or other electronic stuff because they didn't have that at their home. Uno and board games were her thing along with art. The Dad was a sales rep for some type of tool company (like snap on but not them) so yea, he got a company car. I don't know what he makes but they seemed to do ok. The cost of that Catholic school tuition has really grown. Last weekend my SIL told me that they took my niece to visit the Catholic HS my mom and I both attended. Tuition is now $10k; it was $1k when I went (I had a full scholarship, though). No idea what tuition was when mom was a student, but she is 2nd youngest of 9 and they all attended Catholic schools. Expenses were different, and a middle class lifestyle was different. Families lived in multi-generation houses and kids shared bedrooms. Mom's family only built their "own" house in the suburbs in the fifties, when my mom was in HS. Even then, it was a double; upstairs was for a maiden aunt, an uncle that had a brain injury as a child (could do manual labor but essentially a child mentally), and another uncle who was a retired farmer. The extended family all looked after one another, and obviously must have pooled resources for housing. Now, it is in one of the wealthier communities, and I thought it was very nice when I was growing up, but today it is a modest home, nothing like the McMansions in the trendy new subdivisions in that same community today. |
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Oct 16, 2015 7:39:50 GMT -5
Actually, our k-8 catholic school does not give multiple sibling discounts. They also only give out 50K or so in scholarships a year. That's for 500 or so families. Tuition isn't horrible, though, about 3500/year per kid.
The catholic HS costs 17K/year to go to. It has some amazing opportunities for kids who are really smart. It also has it's fair share of kids that are flunking and better drugs than what's available at the public schools.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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"How you win matters." Ender, Ender's Game
Joined: Jan 2, 2011 13:33:09 GMT -5
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 16, 2015 8:16:52 GMT -5
This article reminds me of the one posted a few months back about the guy working on Wall Sreet making $250k/year or so plus bonus who was broke. He was trying to counter the lingering anger over the banking scandals.
He thought he would get understanding and empathy and maybe even sympathy.
Instead, he got the exact same comments posted about this article.
It's not how much you make. It's what you do with it.
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Post by mojothehelpermonkey on Oct 16, 2015 8:49:38 GMT -5
This was the pay rate for some of the positions that a recruiter was showing me that require at least a BS degree and involve trouble shooting issues with medical devices. I live in a HCOL area too. Yes, but there's trade offs. The 20 year old probably will top out pay wise within 10 years. If he doesn't make the move to management or to some other line of work - he's at the top of his income scale. OdDs are your wife will continue to get increases in pay EVEN IF SHE DOES THE EXACT SAME JOB FOR 30 years. She will also possibly have plenty of opportunities to increase her pay substantially thru out her life long career WHILE REMAINING A "TEACHER". I'd rather be a lifelong 50 yo "underpaid" teacher earning 100K than an "underpaid" lifelong 50 yo meat cutter earning 60K
I suspect a teacher has a bit more job security than a 'meat cutter'. Even if they both are in unions. Grocery stores and packing plants come and go... schools tend to be a bit more consistent.
I suspect a teacher will NEVER have to work a weekend or a holiday. I suspect the 'meat cutter' may feel pressured to work holidays and weekends - for the pay OR to not be seen as "lazy" or "unreliable" by management so he gets the shifts he wants.
I suspect a "meat cutter" might have to work more than 8 hours in a day - more often than a handful of times during the year like say a teacher who has to stay 'late' for teacher/parent conferences or 'open house' a couple of times during the school year.
I'm NOT saying that teachers don't 'work hard' or put in a lot of hours... There's just trade offs in compensation. (FWIW: my local grade schools will have their first full 5 days of school next week. MY gosh, the teachers are going to be exhausted after having the kids for 5 days straight... it's such a burden).
Also, an incompetent meat cutter can introduce contamination that could make a lot of people sick. I am sure it is not an easy or unskilled job. I just wish I had known when I was in school and trying to pick a career that I could make as much cutting meat as I could working in academia or the biotech industry. I should have listened less to the guidance counselors and spent more time on the internet. |
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Post by mojothehelpermonkey on Oct 16, 2015 8:59:36 GMT -5
I just realized that this guy was probably the sort of dreamer who told his students to do what they love and the money will follow. At least based on the tone of his article, he is starting to see how impractical that advice is for most people.
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thyme4change
Community Leader
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 16, 2015 9:05:14 GMT -5
I started in public accounting in 1986. One of the first things I learned was that, no matter how much money one earns, its always possible to overspend. This man has done that. He flat out states he lives in an area with good public schools, but he insists on spending a huge amount on private school tuition. The title of his article should have been, "I went broke educating *my* kids. Athletes and musicians make millions and end up broke in 3 years. It is super easy to outspend. As an individual, you will never have enough money to buy everything - so learn where to stop. |
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8 Bit WWBG
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Your Money admin
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 16, 2015 9:12:57 GMT -5
...:::"$17,000 in property taxes?":::... and ...:::"Childless folks are paying for two of his kids to go to public school and he is whining":::...
Welcome to NY! The tax/kids spiral feeds itself. When I was young, most of my friends were from 1 or 2 kid families. After we all grew up and moved on, families with 4 or 5 young kids started moving in. Of course that puts more strain on the schools, which ups the price. So the empty-nesters get sick of paying for things their kids don't use, and leave. Making more room for larger families...
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Oct 16, 2015 9:58:02 GMT -5
Yes, but there's trade offs. The 20 year old probably will top out pay wise within 10 years. If he doesn't make the move to management or to some other line of work - he's at the top of his income scale. OdDs are your wife will continue to get increases in pay EVEN IF SHE DOES THE EXACT SAME JOB FOR 30 years. She will also possibly have plenty of opportunities to increase her pay substantially thru out her life long career WHILE REMAINING A "TEACHER". I'd rather be a lifelong 50 yo "underpaid" teacher earning 100K than an "underpaid" lifelong 50 yo meat cutter earning 60K
I suspect a teacher has a bit more job security than a 'meat cutter'. Even if they both are in unions. Grocery stores and packing plants come and go... schools tend to be a bit more consistent.
I suspect a teacher will NEVER have to work a weekend or a holiday. I suspect the 'meat cutter' may feel pressured to work holidays and weekends - for the pay OR to not be seen as "lazy" or "unreliable" by management so he gets the shifts he wants.
I suspect a "meat cutter" might have to work more than 8 hours in a day - more often than a handful of times during the year like say a teacher who has to stay 'late' for teacher/parent conferences or 'open house' a couple of times during the school year.
I'm NOT saying that teachers don't 'work hard' or put in a lot of hours... There's just trade offs in compensation. (FWIW: my local grade schools will have their first full 5 days of school next week. MY gosh, the teachers are going to be exhausted after having the kids for 5 days straight... it's such a burden).
Also, an incompetent meat cutter can introduce contamination that could make a lot of people sick. I am sure it is not an easy or unskilled job. I just wish I had known when I was in school and trying to pick a career that I could make as much cutting meat as I could working in academia or the biotech industry. I should have listened less to the guidance counselors and spent more time on the internet. That's only what you'll get in a HCOLA, you don't make that much cutting meat where I live. Still better than average but not that much. And she left out the worst thing about being a meat cutter, working in a refrigerator all day.  |
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Post by mojothehelpermonkey on Oct 16, 2015 10:15:31 GMT -5
ETA: By the way, any claims or inference that a teacher's standard of living has deteriorated over the years is not true. I know because I was there. Sixty years ago, I was the youngest child of a school teacher. We had one car, not two. That car was purchased well used, not new. And Dad did most of the repairs while laying in a dirt driveway. He couldn't afford to pay someone else to fix the car. We didn't have a house until I was about four years old. We lived in a trailer down along the river, next to the highway. And had to pull the trailer out in the middle of the night because the river was flooding. When the folks were able to buy a house, it didn't have a garage. The car sat outside in a snow bank in 30 below MN winters. But it started most of the time. We three boys shared a single bedroom. We wore a lot of hand me down clothes provided by friends and family. Pants and shirts with patches were the dress of the day. It's likely that our only clothes without patches were our church clothes. As we got old enough, we had a bike. That we shared. That was purchased for us by a close family friend. While we were probably middle class (pants with patches were common in those days), I suspect we were on the lower end of the middle class. Twenty years ago, my dad and I were a 2 person household. He had a masters degree and a (non-teaching) job in academia. He also earned extra income playing in a band on the weekends. The year I applied to college and filled out financial aid paperwork, his income was ~$30K. We both had cars, so I could drive myself to high school and my jobs. My car had been my grandma's and both of our cars were over 10 years old. Our house had one bathroom and no garage. Our vacations involved me coming with on trips to academic conferences. Maybe the issue is less that teaching and academia are no longer a middle class profession and more that lifestyle creep (and housing prices) have made being middle class a lot more expensive. |
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Post by mojothehelpermonkey on Oct 16, 2015 10:16:57 GMT -5
Also, an incompetent meat cutter can introduce contamination that could make a lot of people sick. I am sure it is not an easy or unskilled job. I just wish I had known when I was in school and trying to pick a career that I could make as much cutting meat as I could working in academia or the biotech industry. I should have listened less to the guidance counselors and spent more time on the internet. That's only what you'll get in a HCOLA, you don't make that much cutting meat where I live. Still better than average but not that much. And she left out the worst thing about being a meat cutter, working in a refrigerator all day. I know what that is like from working in a cold room in a lab. Maybe meat cutting is not for me. |
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