I went broke teaching your kids...

[zibazinski]

We don't have kids but we live in a good school district and the taxes reflect it. We live here bcuz it's safe and bcuz the people who can live here take care of their homes. It's not always about the school system.

[movingforward]

What I would really love is for one of his colleagues to come out with an article about how well he/she is doing financially.  Most things are a matter of choices.  My BFF makes the same amount I do (actually slightly more), lives in a comparable apartment, and drives a comparable car but has zero money in savings and only contributes 4% to her 401K.  I manage to save about 28% of my income. 

[mojothehelpermonkey]

Oct 15, 2015 12:05:22 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Oct 15, 2015 11:49:06 GMT -5 busymom said:

Also, things like lots of activities for the kids, and braces are NOT necessities. If they cannot afford braces now, their kids can always take care of that as adults.

I don't know if i would agree with this about braces.

We paid over 7K out of pocket for DS's braces..Total treatment was 9K. If he wouldn't have had braces (and oral surgery), he'd have adult teeth that would have never come in.

His adult tooth is already gimpy (mis-shapen) because it didn't come up when it should have 5ish years ago.

Most health insurance plans do not cover braces as adults. I can't imagine asking my DS to pay 10-12K (or more)  for ortho treatment when he's in his 20's because I didn't do anything to fix it when he was young. Actually, if I did that, I'd feel like a parent that failed, because I couldn't take care of my child's medical needs.

I watched an episode of Extreme Makeover (please don't judge ), and the woman getting the makeover had an identical twin. For some reason that made no sense to me, the parents only got one of the twins the braces that they both obviously needed as children. On the show, they gave the other twin liposuction and a facelift, but all they really needed to do was just fix her teeth (which they also did). Bad teeth can really hold a person back professionally and socially. I lost my front teeth in a bike accident as a kid, and my mom still mentions today how happy she was that she had gotten dental insurance for me before the accident. Although the plan probably wouldn't have covered braces anyway.

[thyme4change]

Why is she driving 2000 miles a month?  I hope she has quite a commute - otherwise, those kids are in some awesome-ass activities.  Our activities are chosen by proximity.  

[Wisconsin Beth]

My parents had 3 of us in braces in the 80s.  My older siblings both needed full braces.  I got partial ones to deal with 1 tooth.  I've got a bit of a crossbite that should have been addressed then but the money wasn't there.  So I think parents need to evaluate braces for the kid.  The crossbite never bothered me and hasn't hindered me in the least.  The front tooth that came in sideways probably would have.  But my parents also had an honest orthodontist (father and son team), who gave them a discount on my braces as it was. 

As for the article, I didn't read it. 

[movingforward]

I am really grateful I had braces as a kid.  My teeth were not pretty!  My parents had them put on as early as possible (4th grade) in order to avoid me being teased in middle school.  I have great teeth now and I take very good care of them.  I believe it definitely would have held me back had I not gotten braces at such an early age.  I think braces can be very important for a child so if it is a matter of doing without cable, not eating out, and cutting back in a few other areas to make that happen then so be it.  Of course, I realize sometimes a family has zero fat in their budget so if it is a matter of eating or braces then you choose to eat. 

[resolution]

Oct 15, 2015 12:15:31 GMT -5 Ryan said:

I will admit there are things that seem a little mind boggling when you stop and think about it.  My grandparents raised 6 kids, all going to catholic schools, sent 4/6 of them to college, and owned a house in a nice suburbs....all while my grandpa was working as an employee at a department store (not management).  For periods of time, my grandma also worked at a department store as well.

They definitely roughed it when it came to certain things...small house, no vacations, no extra income, etc.  But that is mind-boggling to me?!?

I think this is a good example of how the security of the middle class has deteriorated over the last generation. I know we like to blame all the overspending and all the stupid examples like the teacher in the article, but realistically would this even be possible today if a family were financially prudent in all other areas?

[The Captain]

Oct 15, 2015 13:10:59 GMT -5 resolution said:

Oct 15, 2015 12:15:31 GMT -5 Ryan said:

I will admit there are things that seem a little mind boggling when you stop and think about it.  My grandparents raised 6 kids, all going to catholic schools, sent 4/6 of them to college, and owned a house in a nice suburbs....all while my grandpa was working as an employee at a department store (not management).  For periods of time, my grandma also worked at a department store as well.

They definitely roughed it when it came to certain things...small house, no vacations, no extra income, etc.  But that is mind-boggling to me?!?

I think this is a good example of how the security of the middle class has deteriorated over the last generation. I know we like to blame all the overspending and all the stupid examples like the teacher in the article, but realistically would this even be possible today if a family were financially prudent in all other areas?

The middle class of today is very different from the middle class back then.

Two cars instead of one (or none).  Washing machine and drier.  TV, cable, internet, smart phones etc.  Eating out more than once a month (if that).

DD had a classmate who was the oldest of 5 (yes five!!!) girls.  All went to catholic school and the mom was a SAHP.  In reality the three youngest went pretty much for free.  When her friend would come over for a sleepover there was no interest in the WII or other electronic stuff because they didn't have that at their home.  Uno and board games were her thing along with art.

The Dad was a sales rep for some type of tool company (like snap on but not them) so yea, he got a company car.  I don't know what he makes but they seemed to do ok.

[thyme4change]

I agree that comparing the 'middle class' of 60 years ago to the 'middle class' of today is pointless.  I live in a really nice house - large and posh - if it was 1955.  Now, my friends say things like "I just couldn't live in a place without a 3 car garage."  

[TheHaitian]

Oct 15, 2015 13:38:21 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I agree that comparing the 'middle class' of 60 years ago to the 'middle class' of today is pointless.  I live in a really nice house - large and posh - if it was 1955.  Now, my friends say things like "I just couldn't live in a place without a 3 car garage."  

When did 3 car garage become the norm?

I am noticing that more and more with the McMansions being built : 3 car garage is the new requirement.

When did we graduate from 2 to 3... I have 1 and some days I do wish I had a 2 car garage (snow/ice storms) but besides that it does not bother me.

[giramomma]

Oct 15, 2015 13:38:21 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I agree that comparing the 'middle class' of 60 years ago to the 'middle class' of today is pointless.  I live in a really nice house - large and posh - if it was 1955.  Now, my friends say things like "I just couldn't live in a place without a 3 car garage."  

Yes, my kids go to school with "middle class" families where the other families biggest complaint is not getting to spend enough time at their lake "cottage."

Or a suitable Christmas gift for an 11 year old is flying down to Florida to see a professional football game with Dad. (And that's one of four kids.)

[NastyWoman]

But I reckon we all have our indulgences, and mine is typical of my profession. Like a great many Americans, I experience myself as middle class, whether or not the facts warrant such a designation

This guy needs to provide us with his definition of middle class. Even if his wife's salary is only 50% of his, the family income (without second jobs etc.) is at least $150k. That should put him firmly in the middle class category, not quite the RICH category but still.
Oh, and if he decides to put the two kids that are in private school in the very good public school for which he pays $17k/year in property tax, he will then have ~$2,900 available for a car payment. And based on his own math of 60 months of payments, he could pay $174K for a car (incl. interest). He should be able to get a nice set of middle class wheels for that amount

[swamp]

I have a 3 stall garage. I "need" a 4 stall.

[Chocolate Lover]

One point we all missed, how did he go broke teaching OUR kids? Do you send your kids to a private school that is discounted to 16K a year?  

(It was 16K per kid, per year right? I'm not going back to look)

[swamp]

Oct 15, 2015 13:47:28 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

One point we all missed, how did he go broke teaching OUR kids? Do you send your kids to a private school that is discounted to 16K a year?  

(It was 16K per kid, per year right? I'm not going back to look)

Good question.

[haapai]

Can you imagine how many teachers saw that link, clicked on it, and are now screaming, "You asshole!  I can't even afford kids!"? 

[TheHaitian]

Oct 15, 2015 13:43:34 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Oct 15, 2015 13:38:21 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I agree that comparing the 'middle class' of 60 years ago to the 'middle class' of today is pointless.  I live in a really nice house - large and posh - if it was 1955.  Now, my friends say things like "I just couldn't live in a place without a 3 car garage."  

Yes, my kids go to school with "middle class" families where the other families biggest complaint is not getting to spend enough time at their lake "cottage."

Or a suitable Christmas gift for an 11 year old is flying down to Florida to see a professional football game with Dad. (And that's one of four kids.)

Sorry if you have a second house ... A lake cottage at that; you are not middle class in my book!

Is everyone trying to "fit" into the middle class nowadays? Is that the new "brag"plaint?

Oh I am so poor I could not afford the Audi I wanted but settled for a BMW?

We could only do 1 week at the Cape this year vs our usual 2, the prices are outrageous.

2 pharmacists telling me with a straight face how it is hard on them lately being middle class, right after telling us about their vacation trip to Hawaii for one and France for the other. Really!

[Cookies Galore]

Blah blah blah! Guys like this make me realize how awesome my life is. Making okay wages and kicking ass!

[thyme4change]

Oct 15, 2015 13:43:33 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Oct 15, 2015 13:38:21 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I agree that comparing the 'middle class' of 60 years ago to the 'middle class' of today is pointless.  I live in a really nice house - large and posh - if it was 1955.  Now, my friends say things like "I just couldn't live in a place without a 3 car garage."  

When did 3 car garage become the norm?

I am noticing that more and more with the McMansions being built : 3 car garage is the new requirement.

When did we graduate from 2 to 3... I have 1 and some days I do wish I had a 2 car garage (snow/ice storms) but besides that it does not bother me.

My parent's house had a 2 car garage, but it also had a 10 foot area the full width of the garage (the cars nosed up to it, and it was a small step up.)  It was really nice to have a place to keep the bikes, the lawn mower and the workbench and all the tools.  At this point, I would rather have that kind of storage than a place to put my car.  Bikes are easily stolen, and have a weird, bulky shape.  Because we don't have snow or ice, my car can live in the elements - although I really like having it in the shade in the summer.  That minimizes those brutal steering wheel burns.  

I think the norm went to 3 car garages when everyone had so much shit in their garage they couldn't fit a car in there.  Unfortunately, when they got that third stall - they just filled that with shit too, and their cars are still out on the driveway.

[NancysSummerSip]

Is it wrong to want to slap the teacher's hand with a ruler when it comes to a story like this?

[Anne_in_VA]

What a joke!  Two kids in private school and they eat out all the time while neglecting their home maintenance.  This guy needs to take a look at his spending.  He makes enough if he learns to reign in hid spending.

[Ryan]

Oct 15, 2015 13:30:23 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Oct 15, 2015 13:10:59 GMT -5 resolution said:

I think this is a good example of how the security of the middle class has deteriorated over the last generation. I know we like to blame all the overspending and all the stupid examples like the teacher in the article, but realistically would this even be possible today if a family were financially prudent in all other areas?

The middle class of today is very different from the middle class back then.

Two cars instead of one (or none).  Washing machine and drier.  TV, cable, internet, smart phones etc.  Eating out more than once a month (if that).

DD had a classmate who was the oldest of 5 (yes five!!!) girls.  All went to catholic school and the mom was a SAHP.  In reality the three youngest went pretty much for free.  When her friend would come over for a sleepover there was no interest in the WII or other electronic stuff because they didn't have that at their home.  Uno and board games were her thing along with art.

The Dad was a sales rep for some type of tool company (like snap on but not them) so yea, he got a company car.  I don't know what he makes but they seemed to do ok.

The middle class today is different than prior years with more expenses being viewed as "necessary".  

But come on....an employee working at a department store, living in a nice suburb of chicago, having a wife that stays home, 6 kids, and sending them all to catholic grade school/HS, and sending 4 of them to college.  I'm sure my mom worked through school, but even so.  The cost of the catholic school alone would exceed the department store worker's salary.  

I actually know someone that lives like someone in the 50's.  1 car, no tv, no cable, no internet, no new clothes, and a husband that works full-time.  They rent a 3 bedroom place in a really run down area, the kids go to public school, and they barely can make ends meet (he's a construction worker).

[TheHaitian]

My private school colleagues tend to loathe and resent the fact that their paychecks come from rich people. This makes teachers out of touch in some respects.

Really??? You are getting paid, why do you care if it is coming from rich people?

[movingforward]

Oct 15, 2015 14:04:54 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Is it wrong to want to slap the teacher's hand with a ruler when it comes to a story like this?

His hand?  I want to slap him across the face

[movingforward]

Oct 15, 2015 14:08:14 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

My private school colleagues tend to loathe and resent the fact that their paychecks come from rich people. This makes teachers out of touch in some respects.

Really You are getting paid, why do you care if it is coming from rich people?

No kidding!  I work for rich people.  It doesn't bother me in the least!  It does become comical from time to time, however, when they completely forget I make 1/4 of what they do and they say something like "oh, you should buy those shoes.  They would look so cute on you."  Uh, those are $800 shoes...

[Abby Normal]

Oct 15, 2015 14:09:07 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Oct 15, 2015 14:04:54 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Is it wrong to want to slap the teacher's hand with a ruler when it comes to a story like this?

His hand?  I want to slap him across the face

Make me want to tell him he's too stupid to teach my kids.   If I'm paying that kind of money for tuition- I want smart teachers. 

[TheHaitian]

Oct 15, 2015 14:06:23 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Oct 15, 2015 13:30:23 GMT -5 The Captain said:

The middle class of today is very different from the middle class back then.

Two cars instead of one (or none).  Washing machine and drier.  TV, cable, internet, smart phones etc.  Eating out more than once a month (if that).

DD had a classmate who was the oldest of 5 (yes five!!!) girls.  All went to catholic school and the mom was a SAHP.  In reality the three youngest went pretty much for free.  When her friend would come over for a sleepover there was no interest in the WII or other electronic stuff because they didn't have that at their home.  Uno and board games were her thing along with art.

The Dad was a sales rep for some type of tool company (like snap on but not them) so yea, he got a company car.  I don't know what he makes but they seemed to do ok.

The middle class today is different than prior years with more expenses being viewed as "necessary".  

But come on....an employee working at a department store, living in a nice suburb of chicago, having a wife that stays home, 6 kids, and sending them all to catholic grade school/HS, and sending 4 of them to college.  I'm sure my mom worked through school, but even so.  The cost of the catholic school alone would exceed the department store worker's salary.  

I actually know someone that lives like someone in the 50's.  1 car, no tv, no cable, no internet, no new clothes, and a husband that works full-time.  They rent a 3 bedroom place in a really run down area, the kids go to public school, and they barely can make ends meet (he's a construction worker).

I think it depends really... My department managers make anywhere from 50k to 70k.

You are not RICH by any means but you are a far cry from poor. 2 department managers married to each other (not unheard off in my business) are bringing home a pretty penny.


The kid in meat that has a high school diploma but high drive that I recommended for the cutter training program is now making $22.26/HR or $46,300/year before Overtime and he is 20.

You will not be able to afford "private schools" but you won't be on Food stamps either.

-> Basically the 20 year old that took 6 months to learn how to cut meat is making more than my wife in academia with a bachelors + masters degree.

[thyme4change]

Oct 15, 2015 14:09:07 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Oct 15, 2015 14:04:54 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Is it wrong to want to slap the teacher's hand with a ruler when it comes to a story like this?

His hand?  I want to slap him across the face

LOL.

Two thoughts - (1) Maybe this story was originally written on a satire site like the Onion? and (2) when we bitch and moan that they don't teach person finance in high school - maybe we should reconsider what we want teachers like this to teach our children.  He can stick with science or english or whatever his subject is.  Let's not ask him to impart his vast money wisdom on the next generation.  

[TheHaitian]

There is this misconception that people that work retail or a grocery store are poor.

Yes maybe our part timers but if you have the drive to become a full timer, assistant dept manager, department manager or higher (assistant or store manager).... The money is pretty sweet!

And the fact it is not a "glamorous" job has kept the competition low/away.

My Regional Vice President started as a part time night crew clerk, my old DM started as a cart kid (so did my current DM)... You work your ass off and work your way up.

Even at store manager, it is not bad. I make $80,500 and I am one of the "cheap" ones payroll wise. 2 store manager married to each other are pulling in 185k/year , they are 32 and 35. Not bad for 2 college drop outs that did not let that stop them...

[Ryan]

Oct 15, 2015 14:17:33 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Oct 15, 2015 14:06:23 GMT -5 Ryan said:

The middle class today is different than prior years with more expenses being viewed as "necessary".  

But come on....an employee working at a department store, living in a nice suburb of chicago, having a wife that stays home, 6 kids, and sending them all to catholic grade school/HS, and sending 4 of them to college.  I'm sure my mom worked through school, but even so.  The cost of the catholic school alone would exceed the department store worker's salary.  

I actually know someone that lives like someone in the 50's.  1 car, no tv, no cable, no internet, no new clothes, and a husband that works full-time.  They rent a 3 bedroom place in a really run down area, the kids go to public school, and they barely can make ends meet (he's a construction worker).

I think it depends really... My department managers make anywhere from 50k to 70k.

You are not RICH by any means but you are a far cry from poor. 2 department managers married to each other (not unheard off in my business) are bringing home a pretty penny.


The kid in meat that has a high school diploma but high drive that I recommended for the cutter training program is now making $22.26/HR or $46,300/year before Overtime and he is 20.

You will not be able to afford "private schools" but you won't be on Food stamps either.

-> Basically the 20 year old that took 6 months to learn how to cut meat is making more than my wife in academia with a bachelors + masters degree.

But my grandpa wasn't a department manager.  He worked in a department store where he was a regular employee who sold curtains or something.  Either they made way more money than they do now or it was way cheaper to live back then.