Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Oct 13, 2015 10:04:58 GMT -5
my thoughts: ♤ redefining 'work' to include things like day trading ♡ hobby income sufficiently replacing traditional jobs ◇ living with parents ♧ SAHP - It wasnt so unusual a generation ago ☆ for the more affluent: rentals
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 13, 2015 10:07:20 GMT -5
As far as I can tell, they sit around during the week then clog up Olive Garden and costco on the weekends.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 10:25:40 GMT -5
Posting on YMAM
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Oct 13, 2015 10:27:13 GMT -5
Starbucks or Peets??
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 13, 2015 10:31:26 GMT -5
Working "off the books" for cash
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Oct 13, 2015 10:47:52 GMT -5
I would be curious to know what percentage of our population is retired, and what percentage are full time students. Curious also know if a temp employee is considered as employed or not.
And I agree there is a lot of working off the books for cash. I know a couple ladies that work cleaning houses, and another one that works as the nursery person at our church. Probably a lot of people babysitting kids in their homes.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 13, 2015 10:51:59 GMT -5
I would guess that retired/disabled make up a fair chunk of that. I know SSDI applications skyrocketed during the recession, especially from those in their early 50s who were involuntarily retired.
The only people I know who are in my age group (early 30s) and don't work are SAHPs.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Oct 13, 2015 11:04:50 GMT -5
I'm not sure quite what I'm supposed to be reacting to.. 15% of the American population is over 65, so there's that. 1 in 4 Americans are on disability as of 2013 apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/And children 0-17 make up 23% of the population. 2/3rds of kids are unable to work, legally (and developmentally) due to age. So, 14ish% can't work, give or take. (From various tables found here www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables.asp So, yes, I can see how 40% of all Americans aren't working...
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 13, 2015 11:46:11 GMT -5
Old people, kids, and the disabled.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 11:51:49 GMT -5
67% of the Americans in my own house don't work. Lazy bums!
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quince
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Post by quince on Oct 13, 2015 11:53:00 GMT -5
Yeah, big difference between "40 % of able bodied people between the ages of 16-70 aren't working" and "40% of the humans in the United State are not working".
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Oct 13, 2015 11:55:36 GMT -5
100% of the people in my house are retired.
Wait, does my part-time job count? It's not much of a job.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Oct 13, 2015 12:00:01 GMT -5
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Oct 13, 2015 12:14:29 GMT -5
1 in 4 are on disability? That seems like a lot. Look at the article in post #7 by giramomma - it explains a lot. Pretty much validates a lot of what I observed after the last recession.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 13, 2015 12:52:34 GMT -5
I think the source said 1 in 4 on disability in that AL county, right? Not nationwide.
There are some serious problems with the way SSD is determined. The "job graph" hasn't been updated for decades, so a lot of sedentary positions aren't included. Administrative judges are incentivized to process as many claims as possible, as quickly as possible, and there aren't a lot of spot checks to determine who is approving way more claims than the average.
But no one wants to touch it, so it's easier to kick the can for another few decades. Supposedly they're working on the job graph and adding more ALJ positions to help ease the caseload, but we'll see.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 13, 2015 12:57:20 GMT -5
I think the number of people who are not working is going to increase as the baby-boomers continue to age out of the workforce. Most people 55+ have worked their way into positions that aren't subject to being jerked out from under them. While it does happen, it's not really all that common. Their employers will usually just allow them to retire when they come of age unless they do something that results in dismissal. This rise in the numbers of those not working has been expected - or, it should have been.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Oct 13, 2015 13:05:09 GMT -5
@sroo4 - if nothing else, I think the topic deserves an honest discussion.
While I don't think your level of education should determine if you get a disability check for the rest of your life, I can completely understand where people get into survival mode and will grasp at whatever straw is offered.
We need to bring jobs back to this country. We need to create a jobcore and make the government the employer of last resort if needed. We need to do a better job of matching resources with needs.
It's becoming more and more acceptable in this country to not contribute to society and instead expect society to support you. We see from other countries that is not sustainable (Greece, Spain, Italy anyone?).
The old line of "Society will only benefit from" doesn't really hold true if all we do is create another generation that will expect society to benefit them.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Oct 13, 2015 13:15:10 GMT -5
Cash payments to kids for learning disabilities is wrong, and I thought covered very well in the article.
"People in Hale County told me that what you want is a kid who can "pull a check."
"Jahleel's family primarily survives off the monthly $700 check they get for his disability.[5]"
"Jahleel's mom wants him to do well in school. That is absolutely clear. But her livelihood depends on Jahleel struggling in school. This tension only increases as kids get older. One mother told me her teenage son wanted to work, but she didn't want him to get a job because if he did, the family would lose its disability check."
What kind of parent lets things get to, and stay on, the point where they can't live without their kid's disability check supporting them? Not only are the parents setting the poor kids up for failure, the system is designed to do so as well.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 13, 2015 13:22:37 GMT -5
Cash payments to kids for learning disabilities is wrong, and I thought covered very well in the article. "People in Hale County told me that what you want is a kid who can "pull a check."
"Jahleel's family primarily survives off the monthly $700 check they get for his disability.[5]"
"Jahleel's mom wants him to do well in school. That is absolutely clear. But her livelihood depends on Jahleel struggling in school. This tension only increases as kids get older. One mother told me her teenage son wanted to work, but she didn't want him to get a job because if he did, the family would lose its disability check."What kind of parent lets things get to, and stay on, the point where they can't live without their kid's disability check supporting them? Not only are the parents setting the poor kids up for failure, the system is designed to do so as well. That is child abuse, pure and simple. I was the parent of a premie who was on an IEP for 10 years. He is bright, capable, and diligent, but he has dyslexia and a hearing issue. I suppose I could have milked all of that for what it was worth. But, instead, DH and I raised him to know that, with hard work and determination, the world was still his oyster. To do less is morally, ethically, and legally wrong IMHO -- and I'm a freaking bleeding heart liberal!!!
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Oct 13, 2015 13:27:12 GMT -5
I know a few people who have worked with kids with disabilities and the amount of money, resources and fraud was disheartening. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers and say they shouldn't have any resources rather my better half worked for a company she finally left after seeing the owner milk the system. Taxpayer dollars went to this company whether or not they went out to visit the kids. My better half only got paid if she you know actually worked and the owner would cancel on her and the families regularly while still collecting money. The sad thing is that my better half and some of the other individuals who worked with the kids liked it and wanted to help. I think the setup finally changed to where the owner couldn't bill without someone going out but she had the business for years and I can only assume was doing it for years before.
As far as disability goes I was with some friends last weekend and they were talking about a friend of theirs who is a cop. They said they expect him to 'medical out' which it appears is more common than at least I thought when it comes to cops, fire fighters, etc. That doesn't mean I'm saying it's rampant but the way they discussed it as far as how this person and other cops they knew viewed it was sad because it wasn't just an option it was something they strongly considered. I don't know what the requirements are but around here they can get out early with 90% or so of their pension along with benefits. Despite their medical "problems" they have no problem going out to the river and/or desert to party.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Oct 13, 2015 13:28:24 GMT -5
Cash payments to kids for learning disabilities is wrong, and I thought covered very well in the article. "People in Hale County told me that what you want is a kid who can "pull a check."
"Jahleel's family primarily survives off the monthly $700 check they get for his disability.[5]"
"Jahleel's mom wants him to do well in school. That is absolutely clear. But her livelihood depends on Jahleel struggling in school. This tension only increases as kids get older. One mother told me her teenage son wanted to work, but she didn't want him to get a job because if he did, the family would lose its disability check."What kind of parent lets things get to, and stay on, the point where they can't live without their kid's disability check supporting them? Not only are the parents setting the poor kids up for failure, the system is designed to do so as well. That is child abuse, pure and simple. I was the parent of a premie who was on an IEP for 10 years. He is bright, capable, and diligent, but he has dyslexia and a hearing issue. I suppose I could have milked all of that for what it was worth. But, instead, DH and I raised him to know that, with hard work and determination, the world was still his oyster. To do less is morally, ethically, and legally wrong IMHO -- and I'm a freaking bleeding heart liberal!!! Bingo.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Oct 13, 2015 13:35:16 GMT -5
I think the source said 1 in 4 on disability in that AL county, right? Not nationwide. There are some serious problems with the way SSD is determined. The "job graph" hasn't been updated for decades, so a lot of sedentary positions aren't included. Administrative judges are incentivized to process as many claims as possible, as quickly as possible, and there aren't a lot of spot checks to determine who is approving way more claims than the average. But no one wants to touch it, so it's easier to kick the can for another few decades. Supposedly they're working on the job graph and adding more ALJ positions to help ease the caseload, but we'll see. I just reread the article. Yes it was just in that one county. According to one of the graphs it was between 5-6% overall in the US Whoops! My Poor reading comprehension. I'll apologize for that. I read a forbes commentary that said 1 in 14. And, the entire Yahoo article addresses all this.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Oct 13, 2015 13:48:27 GMT -5
I know a few people who have worked with kids with disabilities and the amount of money, resources and fraud was disheartening. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers and say they shouldn't have any resources rather my better half worked for a company she finally left after seeing the owner milk the system. Taxpayer dollars went to this company whether or not they went out to visit the kids. My better half only got paid if she you know actually worked and the owner would cancel on her and the families regularly while still collecting money. The sad thing is that my better half and some of the other individuals who worked with the kids liked it and wanted to help. I think the setup finally changed to where the owner couldn't bill without someone going out but she had the business for years and I can only assume was doing it for years before. As far as disability goes I was with some friends last weekend and they were talking about a friend of theirs who is a cop. They said they expect him to 'medical out' which it appears is more common than at least I thought when it comes to cops, fire fighters, etc. That doesn't mean I'm saying it's rampant but the way they discussed it as far as how this person and other cops they knew viewed it was sad because it wasn't just an option it was something they strongly considered. I don't know what the requirements are but around here they can get out early with 90% or so of their pension along with benefits. Despite their medical "problems" they have no problem going out to the river and/or desert to party. Some of that is highly dependent on how the disability stuff is written. Here, for Fire, if you go on disability, you are required to have a yearly exam (for 7 years)to determine if you are fit to come back off of disability. I know of 3 people who've come back to work because they needed more time/therapy to heal - we can only keep people on long term Injury Leave for a year. AFter that, we seem to be forcing people though Paid Off credits and sick leave, if they have it, until the paperwork for disability goes though. If you have develop a heart condition, you're out. Period. End of discussion. And you are NOT coming back. I think lung disease is lumped in there too but I don't hear much about personnel going out on lungs. Mostly it's heart, cancer or a badly messed up shoulder or leg. Or PTSD - we've lost a couple of people to that too but one of them had 4 military tours (over a course of 15-20 years, I think) in bad places so I think that's not really on us, per se. But I can only speak for my Fire. Not the police or any other dept.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 13, 2015 13:54:43 GMT -5
According to the chart the states where disability claims are the highest are those with a lot of rural areas. This makes a lot of sense in that options are more limited to low paying and/or physical work (which the article also talked about). If a person is stuck making minimum wage then going on disability doesn't hurt as much financially as it would someone making a middle class income. There just isn't as much incentive for them to get back into the workforce. Throw in the fact that there is little opportunity for desk work and there you have it...
Not to bring politics into it but this is the very reason why the republicans are flat our lying when they say most low-income people vote democrat. Statistically it just isn't true...
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Oct 13, 2015 14:15:51 GMT -5
According to the chart the states where disability claims are the highest are those with a lot of rural areas. This makes a lot of sense in that options are more limited to low paying and/or physical work (which the article also talked about). If a person is stuck making minimum wage then going on disability doesn't hurt as much financially as it would someone making a middle class income. There just isn't as much incentive for them to get back into the workforce. Throw in the fact that there is little opportunity for desk work and there you have it... Not to bring politics into it but this is the very reason why the republicans are flat our lying when they say most low-income people vote democrat. Statistically it just isn't true... According to the PEW research organization more than 2X's as many poor people identify as democrats as opposed to republicans. However given the numbers (in all income ranges) who identify as independent, and the lack of independent candidates who get elected, I'm not sure how accurate this is. www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/09/26/161841771/how-income-divides-democrats-republicans-and-independents
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Oct 13, 2015 14:23:44 GMT -5
67% of the Americans in my own house don't work. Lazy bums! 100% in my house don't work. Oh, wait that's me. But if I go out and get a job I will be taking job away from some young wippersnapper so I'll just be a lazy bum for the good of the economy...
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 13, 2015 14:29:29 GMT -5
I'm not sure quite what I'm supposed to be reacting to.. 15% of the American population is over 65, so there's that. 1 in 4 Americans are on disability as of 2013 apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/And children 0-17 make up 23% of the population. 2/3rds of kids are unable to work, legally (and developmentally) due to age. So, 14ish% can't work, give or take. (From various tables found here www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables.asp So, yes, I can see how 40% of all Americans aren't working... Let's see: kids under 15 in the US ~60 million Stay at home parents ~11 million Non-working students ~20 million people on disability ~14 million people over 65 x 60% to estimate retired ~26 million That is 130 million people, which is 40.625% of 320 million.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 13, 2015 14:32:17 GMT -5
My experience is purely anecdotal, but I grew up in a poor rural town in a red state. Most of the local elections are taken by Democrats (often running unopposed), but in national elections they always go Republican. A lot of local contenders self-identify as Democrats even when their platform is very conservative.
So I suspect if you asked 100 people walking down the street in my hometown whether they were (R) or (D), you'd probably get significantly more Ds, but if you actually delved into how they stood on the big issues, very few would be considered Democrats by objective standards (to the extent there are any).
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Post by mojothehelpermonkey on Oct 13, 2015 14:34:22 GMT -5
I am not currently working. I quit my job 7 months ago, and I haven't found another job yet. I spend my time looking for jobs and trying to enjoy some time off because I expect to find another job eventually. I guess I would fall into that "unemployed but still looking" category. Of the other people I know who don't work, most are retired. I also have a couple of friends who don't ever seem to have jobs, but still get by. One is smart and hard working but has some mental health issues that seem to prevent him from holding down a regular job, so he gets by doing random work in exchange for cash. My other friend is a really talented artist, but not very practical. Good thing her parents have money. Also, there are a lot of can collectors, dumpster divers and street performers in my neighborhood who probably don't get W2s, but they put in some crazy hours.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Oct 13, 2015 15:14:00 GMT -5
My experience is purely anecdotal, but I grew up in a poor rural town in a red state. Most of the local elections are taken by Democrats (often running unopposed), but in national elections they always go Republican. A lot of local contenders self-identify as Democrats even when their platform is very conservative. So I suspect if you asked 100 people walking down the street in my hometown whether they were (R) or (D), you'd probably get significantly more Ds, but if you actually delved into how they stood on the big issues, very few would be considered Democrats by objective standards (to the extent there are any). Where I live is so red that if you vote in the primaries, you'd better get the Republican ballot because there's almost nothing on the Democratic one. Last time I asked if there was anything on the Dem one when they asked which and they laughed. Lots of local elections are won in the primaries because it's 2 Repubs after the same job, and they'll be unopposed in the regular election.
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