If nearly 40% of Americans aren’t working, what are they do

[wvugurl26]

Oct 13, 2015 12:52:34 GMT -5 midjd said:

I think the source said 1 in 4 on disability in that AL county, right? Not nationwide. 

There are some serious problems with the way SSD is determined. The "job graph" hasn't been updated for decades, so a lot of sedentary positions aren't included. Administrative judges are incentivized to process as many claims as possible, as quickly as possible, and there aren't a lot of spot checks to determine who is approving way more claims than the average. 

But no one wants to touch it, so it's easier to kick the can for another few decades. Supposedly they're working on the job graph and adding more ALJ positions to help ease the caseload, but we'll see.

So I guess it just isn't Medicare that needs more ALJs. I heard last year they quit scheduling cases with the ALJs because the backlog was so bad. They quietly resumed scheduling this summer.

[cronewitch]

Some take a lot more to be disabled than others. Some can work as long as the brain works even with bad bodies others once the body goes can't land a decent job. My dad and brother were pipefitters so working past 58 or so got too painful. My brother considered other careers but had been a pipe fitter since 18 so 40 years before retirement. He considered opening a plumbing shop even became a master plumber but he didn't know how to run a business like that. So he worked for his wife in her home based business. His wife has a sister who has her husband work for her too, she manages about 40 rental properties not sure she pays him but he says he works for her, he may appear unemployed.

[busymom]

Some of the other moms I know had to drop out of the workforce due to either taking care of their disabled children, or aging parents. Employers still do not make it easy, or at times even possible to take care of family, even when an employee makes the extra effort to "stay in the game".

[Phoenix84]

Oct 13, 2015 11:04:50 GMT -5 giramomma said:

I'm not sure quite what I'm supposed to be reacting to..

15% of the American population is over 65, so there's that.

1 in 4 Americans are on disability as of 2013
apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

And children 0-17 make up 23% of the  population. 2/3rds of kids are unable to work, legally (and developmentally) due to age. So, 14ish% can't work, give or take. (From various tables found here www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables.asp

So, yes, I can see how 40% of all Americans aren't working...

Interesting article.  I had no idea poor kids with learning diabilities could get disability checks. 

[tskeeter]

Oct 13, 2015 13:15:10 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Cash payments to kids for learning disabilities is wrong, and I thought covered very well in the article.

"People in Hale County told me that what you want is a kid who can "pull a check."  

"Jahleel's family primarily survives off the monthly $700 check they get for his disability.[5]"

"Jahleel's mom wants him to do well in school. That is absolutely clear. But her livelihood depends on Jahleel struggling in school. This tension only increases as kids get older. One mother told me her teenage son wanted to work, but she didn't want him to get a job because if he did, the family would lose its disability check."

What kind of parent lets things get to, and stay on, the point where they can't live without their kid's disability check supporting them?  Not only are the parents setting the poor kids up for failure, the system is designed to do so as well.

This sounds very similar to Newton county GA, when I lived in that area.  High school graduation rate was about 52%.  When I asked a school administrator why the statistic was so low, I was told "there are a lot of Blacks in Newton county".  As I dug deeper, it was explained that many Black families placed a higher value on income than education.  So, as soon as a kid was old enough to hold a regular job, their family expected them to drop out of school, get a job, and augment the family income.  

[cronewitch]

Finishing high school has always been hard for poor kids. When you are 16 and can earn minimum wage you think you are giving up a lot of money to stay in school. When I was young it was $50 a week which was a fortune. Imagine living with a single mother and her boyfriend or a dad and step mom who fight all the time, not enough food and being told you aren't wanted and staying in school. My ex, my ISO and many other people I have known dropped out. ISO was living with his dad but his dad was living with girl friends so the kid slept on the couch. At 16 his dad said he was tired of raising him so let him join the Navy and go to Nam. My ex was raised by grandparents and joined the Army at 17 because his uncle was in and it looked like fun. A child at 16 thinks they are grown up, some are parents or know people who are parents at their age so that and a dysfunctional family will get them to drop out. These kids aren't the kind parents let live in the basement until they are 30, they often don't have a house or even some don't have apartments, living with grandparents or in shelters or in a van down by the river.

[mojothehelpermonkey]

Everyone that I know in real life who dropped out of school did it for a pretty good reason. Maslow's hierarchy of needs!

[quince]

My brother is hearing impaired, and my mom got a check because of this. This to me is a good thing, because hearing aids are expensive and we probably would have had a hard time getting those otherwise. Also, he had to go to a more distant elementary school and speech therapy because of this- the money helped make these things happen.

[cronewitch]

My niece is thinking of applying for SSI for her daughter with down syndrome. The girl is 16 and still needs babysitters and the mother is low income, the girl also has medical expense for things like her spine is crooked and she need inserts in shoes. She won't get rich off the extra money but it will be nice to have.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Oct 14, 2015 15:56:28 GMT -5 mojothehelpermonkey said:

Everyone that I know in real life who dropped out of school did it for a pretty good reason. Maslow's hierarchy of needs!

My grandfather dropped out of school in the 4th grade. His father and oldest brother had died and his mother needed his help supporting the household.   He helped support her and his 4 other brothers.

[mojothehelpermonkey]

Oct 14, 2015 16:27:55 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Oct 14, 2015 15:56:28 GMT -5 mojothehelpermonkey said:

Everyone that I know in real life who dropped out of school did it for a pretty good reason. Maslow's hierarchy of needs!

My grandfather dropped out of school in the 4th grade. His father and oldest brother had died and his mother needed his help supporting the household.   He helped support her and his 4 other brothers.

Neither of my grandpas finished high school. The grandpa who was good at math and had some high school died in poverty because of a lot of reasons that had nothing to do with not being hard working enough. The grandpa that dropped out in 8th grade and busted his ass farming good land that he bought at a discount had something left to leave his kids. Life's a real crapshot.

[Ombud]

Oct 14, 2015 16:24:40 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

My niece is thinking of applying for SSI for her daughter with down syndrome. The girl is 16 and still needs babysitters and the mother is low income, the girl also has medical expense for things like her spine is crooked and she need inserts in shoes. She won't get rich off the extra money but it will be nice to have.

Thinking? Do it now! The money for babysitters may enable the mom to be more self-sufficient

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Oct 14, 2015 16:11:10 GMT -5 quince said:

My brother is hearing impaired, and my mom got a check because of this. This to me is a good thing, because hearing aids are expensive and we probably would have had a hard time getting those otherwise. Also, he had to go to a more distant elementary school and speech therapy because of this- the money helped make these things happen.

I should clarify that I am not against parents receiving SS for their disabled children.  I was replying above to the story about the mother who was using her son's learning disabilities in order to support herself through SS.  

DH and I spent tens of thousands of dollars of our own money to pay for ODS's speech therapy/physical therapy/occupational therapy/tutors, etc.  I left a potentially-lucrative professional career to care for ODS full-time.  The financial hit we took as a result is incalculable and we will never, ever catch up.  But, we don't focus on the financial toll.  We only see the man that ODS has become because of the time and money we put into his care.  Would a monthly SS check have helped?  Sure.  But, I didn't think ODS would qualify given his types of LDs and I wasn't willing to lie about his challenges and, as a result, deny his many abilities, for a few hundred per month.  

Parents of kids who are blind, hearing impaired, autistic, have cerebral palsy, struggle with mental illness, have below-average IQ for whatever reason, etc., are absolutely entitled to SS support, IMHO.  It is, by law, a matter of the severity of the child's disability and whether that severity genuinely prevents a parent from working.  I believe most parents who receive SS for their children with disabilities are legally entitled to it.  Unfortunately, as in all things human, there will always be a few who will cheat the system.  We must be careful not to let those few make us question the needs of the many.  

[MN-Investor]

You can look at employment from a number of viewpoints.

One is the unemployment rate. That's been dropping steadily since Obama took office. Because of that, Republicans can no longer use that to assail Obama and his policies.

Another statistic is the labor participation rate. That has been increasing for a number of years. Unfortunately, most reports just state numbers and do no analysis as to why potential workers are not working.

The dishonest ones (Limbaugh, for example) will quote 93 million Americans not working! but conveniently omit the fact that that number includes retirees, the disabled, students, stay at home moms, etc.

I enjoy tweaking Republicans by pointing out that a decreasing labor participation rate may actually indicate an improving economy. People may feel more comfortable in their family finances so that only one spouse needs to work. Or the children can stay in school vs. dropping out to work and add to the family income. Or, in our case, the stock market has increased our portfolio such that my husband will retire next year. But that, by itself, would not have been enough if it had not been for the Affordable Care Act. The ACA guarantees that we will be able to buy health insurance, so DH won't have to stay employed just to be covered by health insurance.

[mojothehelpermonkey]

Oct 15, 2015 10:42:40 GMT -5 MN-Investor said:

You can look at employment from a number of viewpoints.

One is the unemployment rate. That's been dropping steadily since Obama took office. Because of that, Republicans can no longer use that to assail Obama and his policies.

Another statistic is the labor participation rate. That has been increasing for a number of years. Unfortunately, most reports just state numbers and do no analysis as to why potential workers are not working.

The dishonest ones (Limbaugh, for example) will quote 93 million Americans not working! but conveniently omit the fact that that number includes retirees, the disabled, students, stay at home moms, etc.

I enjoy tweaking Republicans by pointing out that a decreasing labor participation rate may actually indicate an improving economy. People may feel more comfortable in their family finances so that only one spouse needs to work. Or the children can stay in school vs. dropping out to work and add to the family income. Or, in our case, the stock market has increased our portfolio such that my husband will retire next year. But that, by itself, would not have been enough if it had not been for the Affordable Care Act. The ACA guarantees that we will be able to buy health insurance, so DH won't have to stay employed just to be covered by health insurance.

The ACA has some problems, but it has made life a lot easier for my friends with chronic health conditions like lupus and type 1 diabetes. One friend was basically forced to get a graduate degree because she couldn't find a job that would give her health insurance. I guess she was supposed to use boot straps or something to make her body start producing insulin. I watched my mom help her parents access the health care available to low income people back in the 90s, and it seems like a great way to die prematurely because you can't get access to what you need.

[hoops902]

Oct 13, 2015 14:29:29 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Oct 13, 2015 11:04:50 GMT -5 giramomma said:

I'm not sure quite what I'm supposed to be reacting to..

15% of the American population is over 65, so there's that.

1 in 4 Americans are on disability as of 2013
apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

And children 0-17 make up 23% of the  population. 2/3rds of kids are unable to work, legally (and developmentally) due to age. So, 14ish% can't work, give or take. (From various tables found here www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables.asp

So, yes, I can see how 40% of all Americans aren't working...

Let's see:

kids under 15 in the US ~60 million
Stay at home parents ~11 million
Non-working students ~20 million
people on disability ~14 million
people over 65 x 60% to estimate retired ~26 million

That is 130 million people, which is 40.625% of 320 million.

It's not looking at the entirety of the population, it's looking at those who are of an age to work (16-64).  The issue pretty clearly demonstrated in the article is that young people are staying in school longer.  People aged 25-54, 81% are in the work force. It is clear from the graphs that they're only counting people as either working or students...not both at the same time.

The article itself seems a little odd, like it's trying to stir up an issue because "Only 60% of Americans have jobs", and then goes on to basically admit "it's cuz people are staying in school a little longer than before". 

Feels kind of like me running up to my wife yelling "Oh damnit I didn't take the trash out to the curb today" and then as she's about to scold me I throw in "cuz it's a holiday and the trash goes tomorrow!".  Trying to cause a reaction intentionally when no issue actually exists, and where I admit no issue exists moments later.

[formerroomate99]

The ACA angle is a valid one.  In the past, there were probably a lot of people who didn't start a band, start a business, etc because they needed to keep a traditional job to keep insured. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Oct 13, 2015 10:04:58 GMT -5 Ombud said:

If nearly 40% of Americans aren’t working, what are they doing?

Allison Schrager 2 hours 55 minutes ago

The most recent jobs numbers masked a dark story. Unemployment held steady at 5.1%, but only 59.2% of Americans have a job. The difference is the unemployment rate only counts people who don’t have a job and are actively looking for one. The labor force participation rate is perhaps a more accurate gauge of the economy. It includes people who’ve given up, don’t want to, or can’t work, and it fell to 62.4% last quarter. Labor force participation has fallen steadily since the start of the recession, and years into the recovery, shows no sign of turning around. It hasn’t been that low since 1977, and back then it was still common for women to be homemakers. The low labor force participation rate got Fed watchers talking that maybe an interest rate hike in December will be too soon.

Fed policy, of course, isn’t a magic cure-all for a sick labor market. If lots of people are out of the labor force because they are retired or can’t find work because their skills aren’t useful, low interest rates won’t do them much good. Whether or not low rates are still warranted depends on why so many Americans aren’t in the labor force anymore.

Yahoo Finance

my thoughts:
♤ redefining 'work' to include things like day trading
♡ hobby income sufficiently replacing traditional jobs
◇ living with parents
♧ SAHP - It wasnt so unusual a generation ago
☆ for the more affluent: rentals

Collecting money from people that do?