Deleted
Joined: Oct 13, 2024 17:20:32 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 8:08:19 GMT -5
If there were a man, aged ~21, who had pretty severe problems with depression can a parent force him to get help? He drinks to pass out and sleeps most of the rest of the day. It is not wildness of youth or anything like that, it is very clearly deep depression. Can the mother get him committed? Is there less than that that the mother could force? Would forcing be likely to help or no? The man was around his very sick father for the last 10 years. The father was in and out of hospital with life threatening kidney problems and died earlier this year. We think that is part of the cause of the depression.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,622
|
Post by swamp on Oct 3, 2015 11:07:03 GMT -5
You cant force anyone to get help. Unless they are actively threatening to hurt themselves or others, no fixed treatment or commitment.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 13, 2024 17:20:32 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 11:13:03 GMT -5
You cant force anyone to get help. Unless they are actively threatening to hurt themselves or others, no fixed treatment or commitment. Even if they are and are forced into treatment, if they don't want the help they just quit taking their meds or whatever.
|
|
bobosensei
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:32:49 GMT -5
Posts: 1,561
|
Post by bobosensei on Oct 3, 2015 11:22:42 GMT -5
Is the 21 year old living with the mom? She could say go to treatment or get out, but if she hasn't already done that I doubt she will- lots of moms can't. I've known too many that didn't including my own. My mom enabled my brother to use right up until she died. She had guilt because when my brother was 12 he was on a motorcycle with my dad when they got hit by a high driver and he saw my dad die. He quickly learned to manipulate everyone around him, but according to my older cousins he started doing drugs before the accident. Mom couldn't draw a hard line to help him help himself.
Like the previous poster said, a person who has an addiction isn't going to really kick the habit until they decide to do it. Someone else might be able to get them to treatment, but it won't last if the addict isn't ready for it.
|
|
NoNamePerson
Distinguished Associate
Is There Anybody OUT There?
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 17:03:17 GMT -5
Posts: 26,222
Location: WITNESS PROTECTION
|
Post by NoNamePerson on Oct 3, 2015 11:31:38 GMT -5
Maybe the mother can't/doesn't recognize the problem because she is still in grief stage. Some people just feel alone in situations like this and don't know which way to turn. Hope he gets the help he needs soon. Wish I had some sage advice, but don't.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 13, 2024 17:20:32 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 11:52:01 GMT -5
My sons watched my late husband die for about 10 years as well, and one has lingering mental health problems partly caused by the experience.
He also has the misfortune of having a combination of my clinical depression and my husband's anxiety disorder stuff on a basic genetic/brain chemistry level.
I was told after my husband died that people who live with all of that constant stress and "what is going to happen next..." feeling all the time, end up with a version of PTSD when the patient dies.
My personal experience has taught me that it takes a LOT of work to get past the PTSD part and retrain your brain to not have all of the lingering stress every day for no reason.
The most frustrating thing in life for me is that I did the counseling, did the mental work, and I have come out the other side a happy and well-functioning human. I can't force my son to get treatment, and I can't even make him a doctor's appt because he is a legal adult.
I am trying to "lead by example" for my son. It's really all the mom can do. They have to want help and seek it. And, it SUCKS.
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,494
|
Post by Tiny on Oct 3, 2015 12:09:08 GMT -5
Is the binge drinking new? Is the depression 'new' as well? In other words, was he a 'typical' kind of person before the death of his father?
I ask because perhaps that makes a difference on how to help the guy. If this is all sort of 'newish' perhaps everyone involved is hoping he'll 'snap out of it' on his own and therefore do/say nothing. Perhaps some actual acknowledgement by people around him that it must be difficult dealing with everything that's happened over the years and the death of his father. maybe some acknowledgement that he's binge drinking and seems depressed. And maybe that it won't go away on it's own would be helpful. he's probably aware on some level that things aren't right... but if everyone just 'looks the other way' it may keep him from ever TRYING/WANTING to make things better. Especially, if his way of coping with difficulties in the past was NOT alcohol. I know lifting depression isn't something you do by 'thinking happy thoughts', but I'm sure there are mental and physical things to do to help cope with it.
|
|
Mardi Gras Audrey
Senior Member
So well rounded, I'm pointless...
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:49:31 GMT -5
Posts: 2,087
|
Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Oct 3, 2015 12:25:09 GMT -5
A lot of this is state dependent. In CA, you can put someone into an involuntary psych hold if they are a threat to themselves/someone else or are considered "gravely disabled" (5150). When I worked in an inpatient psych unit, the "gravely disabled" was used when the pt couldn't take care of themselves. The issue is that the standard for "caring for youurself" is pretty low. if they are homeless but know how to get food (even through foraging/dumpster diving) and shelter for themselves, they usually aren't considered gravely disabled.
In CA, you can hold under 5150 for 72 hours. If you want to hold someone longer, you go to a 5250, where you go before a judge and the people who want to hold the patient have to PROVE to the judge that the person cannot take care of themselves. A lot of times, if the person can hold themselves together for a 1/2 hour hearing, the judge will let them back to the streets.
Our unit would sometimes get lucky and make enough progress in the first 72 hours where the patient would waive their right to the 5250 hearing. Then they would be held on the hospital's say for a few more weeks. We always were trying to get the patient more stabilized and started on thinking ahead/how healthy they could be in the first little bit. This would make them more cooperative with treatment and, hopefully, make treatment more successful.
|
|
souldoubt
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 11:57:14 GMT -5
Posts: 2,757
|
Post by souldoubt on Oct 3, 2015 12:28:13 GMT -5
As others said unless he's threatening suicide or harm on someone else there's nothing you can do as far as having someone committed. One of my friends was committed maybe 15 years ago because he had a mental breakdown and threatened his family and that's what it took to get him into a mental hospital in CA. What the parent can do is stop enabling him by not allowing him to live at home and drink himself stupid assuming he lives at home. I've got a friend I've known for 20 years who has some mental issues and instead of his parents trying to get him to get help they continue to enable him by bailing him out, paying his living expenses, making excuses and not giving him any ultimatums to get his ass in gear. He's an able bodied 30+ year old man now and when his parents go no one else is going to support him so they're just setting him up for failure. Another friend I haven't talked to in years (known 20+ years as well) last I heard was still living at home, drinking every day, had multiple DUI's and frequented the same bar he's been going to for years. The one thing I've noticed people like these two have in common is parents who enable them. I'm not advocating taking a hard stance telling someone to do a complete 180 now or they're out of the house and cut off but if you continue to allow it to happen the wrong message is being sent and it will likely only get worse. It doesn't seem like that long ago that both of these guys were in their early 20's and we chalked it up to being young and immature and now it's manifested into something completely different that will be even harder to overcome. Hopefully the guy gets the help he needs and gets sober.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,912
|
Post by zibazinski on Oct 3, 2015 16:06:27 GMT -5
Funny enough, DD was just mentioning that although my world did not revolve around my kids like other moms did and she resented it. I worked and had a social life. But she is now talking about her roommate being so messed up and now that the mom of this roommate has been there for three weeks(!) she understands why. The mom leaves every light on 24 hours a day. Never cleans up after herself or even cleans the common areas. DD just told me that the mom is divorced. This is the same woman who lorded it over me that I was divorced from DD's father a few months ago.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Oct 3, 2015 16:34:45 GMT -5
I think we CAN force people to get help. In my opinion, when addicts have a brush with the law, they should be forced to go to a 90 day rehab stint and compelled to finish it, even if they have to be restrained and sit in a rubber room. Until the drugs are out of their system, how can they even make rational choices to help themselves?
As for other mental illness, some people choose to be lazy, sleep all day, drink all day, etc. I don't think you can necessarily force that if they aren't a danger to others.. But, again if they have a brush with the law, then I would be in favor of compulsory treatment.
Also, anyone who is a danger to themselves or others should have longer term Involuntary Commitment.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,776
|
Post by thyme4change on Oct 3, 2015 16:47:06 GMT -5
Certainly, if she can get him on meds, he might start having a different view of life. Depression is tough to get help, because you are too depressed to do anything about anything. Once you start to get better, you want to keep getting better.
If he isn't threatening harm, she will have to pressure him into getting help. She should talk about it every day - or twice a day to him. She should make doctors appointments and pressure him to go. She should leave reading material around about it. She should threaten to kick him out, or some other thing that would be influential on him. If she could figure out how to get him to exercise a little - walk the dog, or whatever, that would help. And, if he has any friends who could add social pressure to get him help - enlist them. Exercise and feeling connected to other people are two things that really help.
Or, she could lie and say that he was talking about suicide when he was drunk, and hope that he doesn't remember. Then he can get committed for a couple of days, and maybe that would be a little wake up call.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 3, 2015 17:59:35 GMT -5
Certainly, if she can get him on meds, he might start having a different view of life. Depression is tough to get help, because you are too depressed to do anything about anything. Once you start to get better, you want to keep getting better. If he isn't threatening harm, she will have to pressure him into getting help. She should talk about it every day - or twice a day to him. She should make doctors appointments and pressure him to go. She should leave reading material around about it. She should threaten to kick him out, or some other thing that would be influential on him. If she could figure out how to get him to exercise a little - walk the dog, or whatever, that would help. And, if he has any friends who could add social pressure to get him help - enlist them. Exercise and feeling connected to other people are two things that really help. Or, she could lie and say that he was talking about suicide when he was drunk, and hope that he doesn't remember. Then he can get committed for a couple of days, and maybe that would be a little wake up call. All of this is easier said than done. I have a friend ho is dealing with this with her adult son. He does go to work and has his own home (he s 26) and he works in the family business. He does his job, barely. He plays golf and tennis with his brother and dad, so exercise is not always the panacea that any make it out to be. It can help, but isn't a solution. my friend has tried all of these tactics and they have pretty much backfired on her....which ultimately drove him further away. He is finally starting to realize he needs help, but not due to my friend's tactics. They need to want to help themselves.
|
|
Robert not Bobby
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 29, 2013 17:45:55 GMT -5
Posts: 1,392
|
Post by Robert not Bobby on Oct 3, 2015 18:18:04 GMT -5
Nature makes mistakes, sometimes.
I have a very mentally slow cousin, and he is the best guy in the world...he speaks without a filter, what is on his mind he will tell you...yes, it can be embarrassing, but it is also refreshing.
So, I don't think he was a mistake. Just not exactly like the rest of us.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 13, 2024 17:20:32 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 18:18:56 GMT -5
I think we CAN force people to get help. In my opinion, when addicts have a brush with the law, they should be forced to go to a 90 day rehab stint and compelled to finish it, even if they have to be restrained and sit in a rubber room. Until the drugs are out of their system, how can they even make rational choices to help themselves? What is the rate of this working though? Lots of people are forced into rehab or jail and do their time just to go back to using again. Ex's sister was clean off of meth for over a year because she had to be (jail/prison), she got out and was telling everyone how great it was to be off the stuff and got a job. Within two months she was using again, started skipping meetings with her probation officer and landed back in prison. There's a big difference between quitting because you want to and quitting because you're forced to.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,776
|
Post by thyme4change on Oct 3, 2015 18:35:42 GMT -5
Certainly, if she can get him on meds, he might start having a different view of life. Depression is tough to get help, because you are too depressed to do anything about anything. Once you start to get better, you want to keep getting better. If he isn't threatening harm, she will have to pressure him into getting help. She should talk about it every day - or twice a day to him. She should make doctors appointments and pressure him to go. She should leave reading material around about it. She should threaten to kick him out, or some other thing that would be influential on him. If she could figure out how to get him to exercise a little - walk the dog, or whatever, that would help. And, if he has any friends who could add social pressure to get him help - enlist them. Exercise and feeling connected to other people are two things that really help. Or, she could lie and say that he was talking about suicide when he was drunk, and hope that he doesn't remember. Then he can get committed for a couple of days, and maybe that would be a little wake up call. All of this is easier said than done. I have a friend ho is dealing with this with her adult son. He does go to work and has his own home (he s 26) and he works in the family business. He does his job, barely. He plays golf and tennis with his brother and dad, so exercise is not always the panacea that any make it out to be. It can help, but isn't a solution. my friend has tried all of these tactics and they have pretty much backfired on her....which ultimately drove him further away. He is finally starting to realize he needs help, but not due to my friend's tactics. They need to want to help themselves. Agreed - but, as a mother, I would rather try than just shrug and say "Meh - his life."
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Oct 3, 2015 18:54:23 GMT -5
Sadly, you can't force someone to get mental health. Even if there were laws to allow it (or, none to prevent it), it still wouldn't work. The work that needs to be done is not easy. It's damned difficult. The chemical imbalance in your body doesn't disappear overnight no matter what is done and it's working against you all the way. When you're clinically depressed, drinking and taking drugs, you barely have the energy to get up to go to the bathroom, much less do the mental and physical work necessary to help yourself get better. It's horribly difficult. Treatment is also expensive and many don't have the money to fund it. This mess is the snake with a thousand heads. It's ripping those suffering with mental illness apart at the same time it's ripping apart those who care about them and those who come in contact with them.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 3, 2015 18:54:54 GMT -5
All that I am saying is that your tactics could backfire, making things worse.
It wasn't until my friend told her son that she was not going to harrass him anymore, but when he behaved badly around her and her friends, he was not welcome.
i got to see this lady New Year's. Had I not been there to see it, I wouldn't have believed it myself. He was invited to leave the festivities. Things got ugly, but she and her DH refused to be held hostage by his behavior.
Last time I talked to my friend, he was seeing a new therapist. No prodding by my friend, he is doing this on his own.
Even as a mother, HIPAA will be an issue with you trying to run things.
|
|
giramomma
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 11:25:27 GMT -5
Posts: 22,157
|
Post by giramomma on Oct 3, 2015 19:28:18 GMT -5
You can't make another adult do anything.
The best you can do is establish boundaries helping the person to get to their bottom a little faster. And hope that the other party decides that change is better than hitting bottom.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Oct 3, 2015 19:39:03 GMT -5
Yes, we can "force" people and we have. It's kind of like finding someone along the road who has been hit by a car and saying 'oh, well we can't force them to go to the hospital". We used to have commonsense and if someone was in mental dire straits, there were means to get people admitted. But now, we would rather leave people lay along side the road and pretend not to see them.
|
|
giramomma
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 11:25:27 GMT -5
Posts: 22,157
|
Post by giramomma on Oct 3, 2015 19:49:43 GMT -5
What about all the addicts that don't have a brush with the law? My DH's big brush with the law is getting a warning for speeding...That doesn't negate his addiction or his need for treatment..
And, like MPL said, sobriety isn't enough. You need to have integrated recovery behaviors into your everyday life and have that be your new normal. It took my DH two years to work his recovery and really integrate recovery behaviors into his daily living.. Most people can't afford to simply drop out of life for several years like that.
|
|
giramomma
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 11:25:27 GMT -5
Posts: 22,157
|
Post by giramomma on Oct 3, 2015 19:51:09 GMT -5
Yes, we can "force" people and we have. It's kind of like finding someone along the road who has been hit by a car and saying 'oh, well we can't force them to go to the hospital". We used to have commonsense and if someone was in mental dire straits, there were means to get people admitted. But now, we would rather leave people lay along side the road and pretend not to see them. Yes, but you also can't force DNR folks, right? I mean, if someone is DNR and doesn't WANT help, don't you get in trouble if you do take life saving measures?
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Oct 3, 2015 20:37:50 GMT -5
Yes. I am not saying to round up someone with a cold and make them go to the doctor. What i am saying that in emergent situations it is presumed that the person lying along side the road in dire need wants help.
|
|
Spellbound454
Senior Member
"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
Joined: Sept 9, 2011 17:28:42 GMT -5
Posts: 4,096
|
Post by Spellbound454 on Oct 4, 2015 9:05:45 GMT -5
I'd have a heart-to-heart with him..... Persuade him he needed help........ and go along to the appointments with him for support.
Rightly or wrongly, it is just what parents do.......You don't see the adult, you see your child in need of help.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,912
|
Post by zibazinski on Oct 4, 2015 10:48:10 GMT -5
I had this with DD and this is what I did. She wasn't an addict but she continuously dated very bad people. I finally told her she was over 18 and she had the right to date whatever she wanted but that I also had rights and I refused to be around losers and users sucking off my daughter and treating her poorly after all the time, care, and money I spent on her while she was growing up. So she could date all the losers she wanted, just don't bring them around me. Friends said I took a hell of a chance that she could have just disappeared from my life. That would have made me sad but being around her and those creeps made me sadder. I see friends held hostage by their kids behavior and I don't like it. It's not going to be me. She dates good people now. She hasn't found "the one" yet but that's okay. Better single than in an horrid relationship.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 13, 2024 17:20:32 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 10:53:58 GMT -5
Thank you for all the help. It is a mess.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,912
|
Post by zibazinski on Oct 4, 2015 10:55:27 GMT -5
Yes, it is. Hopefully it's not your mess but you just wanting to get involved in it.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Oct 4, 2015 11:03:45 GMT -5
Nature makes mistakes, sometimes. I have a very mentally slow cousin, and he is the best guy in the world... he speaks without a filter, what is on his mind he will tell you...yes, it can be embarrassing, but it is also refreshing. So, I don't think he was a mistake. Just not exactly like the rest of us. Your cousin is Donald Trump?
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Oct 4, 2015 11:09:46 GMT -5
Yes, we can "force" people and we have. It's kind of like finding someone along the road who has been hit by a car and saying 'oh, well we can't force them to go to the hospital". We used to have commonsense and if someone was in mental dire straits, there were means to get people admitted. But now, we would rather leave people lay along side the road and pretend not to see them. No, you can't. If someone doesn't want help or insists they don't have a problem, you can't force them into treatment. Unless there's imminent harm to themselves or others, they have rights. If people aren't ready to let go of their addictions, all the forcing in the world isn't going to help. When I worked in rehab, many were there because of threats from their families or employers. Those always went back to using.
|
|
toomuchreality
Senior Associate
Joined: Sept 3, 2011 10:28:25 GMT -5
Posts: 16,916
Favorite Drink: Sometimes I drink water... just to surprise my liver!
Member is Online
|
Post by toomuchreality on Oct 4, 2015 17:06:41 GMT -5
I was admitted to the hospital for depression years ago. (self admit) A 72 hour hold was signed on me, every 3 days, for about 6 months. There was no addiction involved. Just depression and anorexia. It sucked. However, I am no longer depressed or suicidal, which is a little miracle, in my book. What a relief! (I did want help, but had tried every medication/combination of medications available at that time, as well as therapy. I was done. That's why I was held involuntarily.) I continued treatment (therapy & meds) for many years, after I was released. I still take meds, but no longer require therapy. Good luck to those dealing with mental health issues, either of their own, or someone else's. I wish you the best.
|
|