Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Aug 26, 2015 13:29:29 GMT -5
XH gave DD#1 a car for her 16th birthday, which was in 2014. However, when I asked him how/when he was going to pay the insurance, he was annoyed that I wasn't going to pay it. He said that he would consider paying the insurance until she was 18 (which is half way through her senior year). He said he would just keep the car on his insurance. I asked him how I would have proof that the car was insured since he refused to pay child support. He told me that insurance was a bill and he pays his bills. I asked him for a proposal on how he was going to take care of guaranteeing the insurance was paid, and he never responded. I have never let the car come to our house. Now keep in mind that I intentionally live in a place that gives my children full access to almost everything they need without a car. DD is not suffering in anyway except the ego boost having her "own" car would give her. DD got her license when she was 16 years, 8.5 months. She tried to convince us to get the car from XH this summer. I reminded her that I had said I wasn't paying the insurance before and now that I've lost my job and the replacement job is $20K less per year, I'm definitely not paying for the insurance on a separate car. She is listed on our insurance as a driver, but we only have two cars; the increase would be $100 - $150 per month.
XH has just texted me. He said that there is going to be construction on his street; he has been told the car is in the way, so he'd like us to take the car now. He will sign the title over.
On KBB, the car is worth about $1500.
What do you see the options being?
A. Decline the car completely
B. Accept the car and just park it until DD is able to afford the insunce (probably won't be until next fall)
C. Ask XH to sell the car and put the proceeds into an account for DD
D. What else?
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Aug 26, 2015 13:35:19 GMT -5
It's toughie but a good life lesson.
It's not just the insurance but also maintenance and repairs.
Does your DD have a job? Can she afford to pay for the insurance and repairs? I assume she is going away to college? If so, when and where and will she need a car?
I think this is a great lesson in budgeting for her.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Aug 26, 2015 13:40:12 GMT -5
She does not have a job and basically refuses to get one. She understands that this choice has kept her from getting the car. She cannot afford the insurance, repairs, maintenance, or gas. She realizes that she does not currently need a car.
She will go to college next fall. It would be more convenient if she had one then as we will most likely not be any closer to her than one hour's drive time. We are currently two and half hours drive time from where she will go to college.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 26, 2015 13:44:47 GMT -5
Man - what a fabulous life lesson! Talk about working your way through tough choices (especially when it's her choice not to work for it).
If he's offering you the car, well - I'd take it. Make sure he signs it over to you, not to her, or no dice. You can always sell it if she doesn't want to pay for and support the car. Or it can sit until she decides to work for it.
A GREAT lesson in how you can't always get everything you want the way you want it!
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 26, 2015 13:51:56 GMT -5
My son wanted a car at 16. I said "Sure, no problem! Buy it yourself, pay for the insurance, registration, and repairs yourself." And that's exactly what he did.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Aug 26, 2015 14:02:29 GMT -5
She does not have a job and basically refuses to get one. She understands that this choice has kept her from getting the car. She cannot afford the insurance, repairs, maintenance, or gas. She realizes that she does not currently need a car.
She will go to college next fall. It would be more convenient if she had one then as we will most likely not be any closer to her than one hour's drive time. We are currently two and half hours drive time from where she will go to college. Your DD has just figured out how to answer the question of what to do with the car. Unfortunately, the answer will piss her off, possibly. She wants what she wants, but does not fully realize that what she wants has strings attached. But she will now. Take the car, making sure that the title is in your name, and let her see that you have it. Make one final offer: she gets a job that makes her enough to support paying for gas, repairs, insurance and maintenance, and she gets the car. No job, then no car. You sell it. Your house, your rules. And as for the transportation home from college, that can be her problem as well. It's called working while you go to school. Lots of kids do it and it does not kill them.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 26, 2015 14:03:00 GMT -5
Just some thoughts:
Is there a fee to change the title? What about the cost of plates/stickers/fees? Is there a city sticker you'd have to buy?
Is there a cost involved with selling the car (taxes? title, plates/stickers/fees)?
Do you have a place to store a derelict car - while you DD admires it but doesn't drive it?
How 'good' is a $1500 vehicle? It seems to me most repairs are in the up to $500 range...
FWIW: I'm old school... I think owning one's first car should be totally the expense of the kid and the kid should be involved with all the aspects... why? Because, it's chock full of 'life lessons' - some of them painful (as in pain in the wallet) that can be learned 'safely' at time when the 'kid' can still recover from making bad decisions.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 26, 2015 15:09:04 GMT -5
I think this is up to your DD, since it was her gift.
If she is willing to work for the insurance/gas/maintenance repairs, she can keep it and drive it.
If she doesn't want to do that, but if she has someone who will store it for her for free and wants to keep it until she starts college (and hope that it still runs, then) then she parks it.
If she would rather sell it and put the money in the bank towards purchase of another car when she goes to college, she could do that, too. Or if she wants to blow the money, that's fine, too, but then when she wants to go to college, she has to come up with money for a car.
Your XH is a douche. He got the fun of being the great dad who gave DD a car for her sixteenth birthday, but left her no practical way to maintain or run it, and now wants to that on you.
But you knew he was a douche, that's why he's an XH.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 26, 2015 15:20:01 GMT -5
::Your XH is a douche. He got the fun of being the great dad who gave DD a car for her sixteenth birthday, but left her no practical way to maintain or run it, and now wants to that on you.::
It doesn't sound like he is stopping her from getting a job. It's not his job to make sure she has money for that kind of thing, any more than it's his job to pay for the water bill when she washes clothes that were a gift. It's not like he bought her a car then poked her eyes out so she can't drive it. It would be one thing if he had the control over her as the custodial parent, would not allow her to have a job, then bought the car and decided mom should foot the bill.
::What do you see the options being?
A. Decline the car completely Reasonable
B. Accept the car and just park it until DD is able to afford the insunce (probably won't be until next fall) Reasonable
C. Ask XH to sell the car and put the proceeds into an account for DD Unreasonable...if someone bought you a dining room table, would you tell them "no thanks, just sell it and give me the money"? You can decline it, you can't decline it because you want money instead and force the other person to do the work to get you that money.
D. What else?:: Accept the car then let DD sell it
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 26, 2015 15:26:46 GMT -5
::Your XH is a douche. He got the fun of being the great dad who gave DD a car for her sixteenth birthday, but left her no practical way to maintain or run it, and now wants to that on you.::
It doesn't sound like he is stopping her from getting a job. It's not his job to make sure she has money for that kind of thing, any more than it's his job to pay for the water bill when she washes clothes that were a gift. It's not like he bought her a car then poked her eyes out so she can't drive it. It would be one thing if he had the control over her as the custodial parent, would not allow her to have a job, then bought the car and decided mom should foot the bill.
::What do you see the options being?
A. Decline the car completely Reasonable
B. Accept the car and just park it until DD is able to afford the insunce (probably won't be until next fall) Reasonable
C. Ask XH to sell the car and put the proceeds into an account for DD Unreasonable...if someone bought you a dining room table, would you tell them "no thanks, just sell it and give me the money"? You can decline it, you can't decline it because you want money instead and force the other person to do the work to get you that money.
D. What else?:: Accept the car then let DD sell it Dad bought daughter a car and assumed mom would pay for the insurance on it = dad is a douche. If dad wanted to make that kind of a gift he should have negotiated it up front with mom - I buy the car you buy the insurance, or I buy he car, we make DD responsible for the insurance. Mom can't afford the insurance, so now Dad looks great because he bought the car and mom looks like the villain (to the daughter) because mom won't pay for the insurance. Best possible solution would have been dad, mom and daughter to sit down together and work out the details about who paid for what PRIOR to the car being bought. Since it sounds like DD doesn't want to work DD might have opted for dad to buy her some other kind of gift for her 16th B'day, one that didn't come with continuing financial obligations.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 26, 2015 15:50:07 GMT -5
Wait a minute, he isn't paying child support but he says he pays his bills?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 26, 2015 15:52:55 GMT -5
::Dad bought daughter a car and assumed mom would pay for the insurance on it = dad is a douche.::
Actually, dad bought daughter a car, then mom asked him how HE was going to pay the insurance. That isn't his responsibility. I'd be annoyed too if I bought someone a gift and their mother started asking me for more money. Then dad agreed to pay the insurance, to which mom decided he had to satisfy all of her requirements. Mom needs to stop enabling this kid.
If daughter doesn't want the car, she can sell it. Buying someone a gift doesn't mean you have to continue paying for it. Buy someone a sweater, pay their laundry bills forever? Buy someone a computer, pay their electric bill forever? Internet bill? Printer ink?
::Mom can't afford the insurance, so now Dad looks great because he bought the car and mom looks like the villain (to the daughter) because mom won't pay for the insurance. ::
Mom is the one with the power to make the daughter get a job...I assume she's the custodial parent here. She's also the one who's going to end up paying electric bills if he buys his daughter a tv/computer/whatever. Nearly every gift comes with additional expenses. She has every right to decline the gift.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Aug 26, 2015 15:56:28 GMT -5
She does not have a job and basically refuses to get one. She understands that this choice has kept her from getting the car. She cannot afford the insurance, repairs, maintenance, or gas. She realizes that she does not currently need a car.
She will go to college next fall. It would be more convenient if she had one then as we will most likely not be any closer to her than one hour's drive time. We are currently two and half hours drive time from where she will go to college. Your DD has just figured out how to answer the question of what to do with the car. Unfortunately, the answer will piss her off, possibly. She wants what she wants, but does not fully realize that what she wants has strings attached. But she will now. Take the car, making sure that the title is in your name, and let her see that you have it. Make one final offer: she gets a job that makes her enough to support paying for gas, repairs, insurance and maintenance, and she gets the car. No job, then no car. You sell it. Your house, your rules. And as for the transportation home from college, that can be her problem as well. It's called working while you go to school. Lots of kids do it and it does not kill them. When I was in school, we used to ride pool. Drivers would put a notice up on a bulletin board in the cafeteria and riders would contact the driver to arrange a ride. Cost was a few dollars toward gas money. Didn't always get you door to door taxi service, but it got you close enough to make it work.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 26, 2015 15:59:41 GMT -5
::And as for the transportation home from college, that can be her problem as well. It's called working while you go to school. Lots of kids do it and it does not kill them. ::
The one problem with this is that often times it is the parents who want the kid to come home, not the kid who wants to come home. It's really the problem of the person who wants it to happen.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Aug 26, 2015 16:10:43 GMT -5
I think the XH is a douchebag for pretending to be the cape-wearing hero and making Chloe look like the Queen of Mean for not kicking in money. She stated from the beginning she would not do it, and has been consistent in sticking with that. The DD is not willing to do anything to help her own situation. Daddy Dearest wants to a four-wheeled block of expensive on them, claim he's a great guy for doing it and then say, "Oh, BTW, I'm not contributing another penny." Which is fine, if that's what he wants to do. But to get his tighty whities in a scramble because his XW is honest enough to say, "Sorry, not happening and here are my previously stated good reasons why" does not wash with me.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Aug 26, 2015 16:15:18 GMT -5
::Dad bought daughter a car and assumed mom would pay for the insurance on it = dad is a douche.::
Actually, dad bought daughter a car, then mom asked him how HE was going to pay the insurance. That isn't his responsibility. I'd be annoyed too if I bought someone a gift and their mother started asking me for more money. Then dad agreed to pay the insurance, to which mom decided he had to satisfy all of her requirements. Mom needs to stop enabling this kid.
If daughter doesn't want the car, she can sell it. Buying someone a gift doesn't mean you have to continue paying for it. Buy someone a sweater, pay their laundry bills forever? Buy someone a computer, pay their electric bill forever? Internet bill? Printer ink?
::Mom can't afford the insurance, so now Dad looks great because he bought the car and mom looks like the villain (to the daughter) because mom won't pay for the insurance. ::
Mom is the one with the power to make the daughter get a job...I assume she's the custodial parent here. She's also the one who's going to end up paying electric bills if he buys his daughter a tv/computer/whatever. Nearly every gift comes with additional expenses. She has every right to decline the gift.
Let's see, your X does something that exposes you to potential legal liability and will cost you money you can't really afford if you accept what the X is doing without question. And you're the bad person?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 26, 2015 16:18:12 GMT -5
I think the XH is a douchebag for pretending to be the cape-wearing hero and making Chloe look like the Queen of Mean for not kicking in money. She stated from the beginning she would not do it, and has been consistent in sticking with that. The DD is not willing to do anything to help her own situation. Daddy Dearest wants to a four-wheeled block of expensive on them, claim he's a great guy for doing it and then say, "Oh, BTW, I'm not contributing another penny." Which is fine, if that's what he wants to do. But to get his tighty whities in a scramble because his XW is honest enough to say, "Sorry, not happening and here are my previously stated good reasons why" does not wash with me. You mean because he bought her a car then offered to pay the insurance on it until she turned 18? What a terrible person...lol.
It's always clear when someone just wants to invent a reason to hate men out of bitterness. He bought her a car...douche, what about the insurance? Oh you'll pay the insurance? Well you're douche for trying to make me look bad then. Oh you want us to actually take the car instead of just letting it sit on the street at your house? DOUCHE
If he didn't buy her a car then the estrogen in the room would call him a douche for not buying a car for his daughter when he knows mom can't afford to buy one...buying her a car is the least he could do...he's such a douche for not buying her one.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 26, 2015 16:19:33 GMT -5
::Let's see, your X does something that exposes you to potential legal liability and will cost you money you can't really afford if you accept what the X is doing without question. And you're the bad person.::
He offered to pay the insurance...what other legal liability are you worried about given that she's already listed on their insurance as a driver?
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Aug 26, 2015 16:23:18 GMT -5
What does the car being in the way of construction have to do with the title being signed over? He can't keep the car in his driveway or garage?
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 26, 2015 16:29:31 GMT -5
I think the XH is a douchebag for pretending to be the cape-wearing hero and making Chloe look like the Queen of Mean for not kicking in money. She stated from the beginning she would not do it, and has been consistent in sticking with that. The DD is not willing to do anything to help her own situation. Daddy Dearest wants to a four-wheeled block of expensive on them, claim he's a great guy for doing it and then say, "Oh, BTW, I'm not contributing another penny." Which is fine, if that's what he wants to do. But to get his tighty whities in a scramble because his XW is honest enough to say, "Sorry, not happening and here are my previously stated good reasons why" does not wash with me. You mean because he bought her a car then offered to pay the insurance on it until she turned 18? What a terrible person...lol.
It's always clear when someone just wants to invent a reason to hate men out of bitterness. He bought her a car...douche, what about the insurance? Oh you'll pay the insurance? Well you're douche for trying to make me look bad then. Oh you want us to actually take the car instead of just letting it sit on the street at your house? DOUCHE
If he didn't buy her a car then the estrogen in the room would call him a douche for not buying a car for his daughter when he knows mom can't afford to buy one...buying her a car is the least he could do...he's such a douche for not buying her one.
The OP asked for PROOF that XH would pay the insurance and he declined. I don't think that is an unreasonable request since he hasn't paid child support. All he would need to do is send her a copy of the verification that daughter is on the insurance every 6 months or whatever. Not a big deal but yet he refused to do it. That would make me suspicious. Also, giving a car as a gift is kind of like giving a puppy to someone. You might want to make sure all parties are on the same page before you bring home the lovable but high maintenance golden retriever.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Aug 26, 2015 16:30:13 GMT -5
I think the XH is a douchebag for pretending to be the cape-wearing hero and making Chloe look like the Queen of Mean for not kicking in money. She stated from the beginning she would not do it, and has been consistent in sticking with that. The DD is not willing to do anything to help her own situation. Daddy Dearest wants to a four-wheeled block of expensive on them, claim he's a great guy for doing it and then say, "Oh, BTW, I'm not contributing another penny." Which is fine, if that's what he wants to do. But to get his tighty whities in a scramble because his XW is honest enough to say, "Sorry, not happening and here are my previously stated good reasons why" does not wash with me. You mean because he bought her a car then offered to pay the insurance on it until she turned 18? What a terrible person...lol.
It's always clear when someone just wants to invent a reason to hate men out of bitterness. He bought her a car...douche, what about the insurance? Oh you'll pay the insurance? Well you're douche for trying to make me look bad then. Oh you want us to actually take the car instead of just letting it sit on the street at your house? DOUCHE
If he didn't buy her a car then the estrogen in the room would call him a douche for not buying a car for his daughter when he knows mom can't afford to buy one...buying her a car is the least he could do...he's such a douche for not buying her one.
When someone doesn't bother to pay child support, how can Chloe trust that he will actually pay the insurance. She clearly indicated that she would be open to that solution if she saw documentation that it was being paid. She did the right thing from my POV. She can't trust her XH, why on earth should she trust him now? My step-sister's dad bought her a car when she got her license. However, before he ever bought her the car he talked it over with my step-mom and they worked out an arrangement where he bought the car, and my step-mom would cover the insurance (as my parents live out in the boondocks and they thought it would make their life easier if my step-sister had her own transportation). However, it was something that was agreed between the two of them before the car was ever presented. And that is the way it should be. Chloe...sorry you XH is a douche. However, I agree with the others that your daughter should make the choice to either sell, park, or use the car (dependent upon her ability to insurance and run it).
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Aug 26, 2015 16:41:14 GMT -5
She does not have a job and basically refuses to get one. She understands that this choice has kept her from getting the car. She cannot afford the insurance, repairs, maintenance, or gas. She realizes that she does not currently need a car.
She will go to college next fall. It would be more convenient if she had one then as we will most likely not be any closer to her than one hour's drive time. We are currently two and half hours drive time from where she will go to college. She who refuses to get a job refuses to own a car.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 26, 2015 17:00:35 GMT -5
Yup, except daughter will go ballistic. More joy for the OP. If X has a job, why no child support?
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Aug 26, 2015 17:01:15 GMT -5
Some of you are acting like he's putting them out by giving the daughter something worth $1,500. They can decline it, donate it, enter it in a demolition derby, sell it and the list goes on. Don't want the headache that comes with owning a car then don't accept it. The guy is an ass for not paying child support or providing proof of insurance after saying he'll pay it but this in no way has to make their lives any harder than simply saying "no." Two letters, one word and it takes less than a second.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 26, 2015 17:13:35 GMT -5
Very true. But that doesn't explain the issue of no CS and an untrustworthy X.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 26, 2015 17:16:54 GMT -5
I wonder if he lies and tells his DD that he does pay and her mom should cover things. I've never told my kids my X paid nothing that he was supposed to. I'm sure they wondered why I worked 3 jobs. He owes me over 180k. I hope to get it someday. Hopefully from his estate.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Aug 26, 2015 17:28:19 GMT -5
Has anyone checked into how expensive a car will be at college?
Around here, parking runs $150/month. Unless you find a street that you can park on. I personally would not pick that option. Even though it's cheaper, I had a friend who got her car busted the first night she parked it on the street.
How many times is DD going to come home? I was an hour away from my folks, and I came home once during first semester my freshman year, and that was for Thanksgiving.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 26, 2015 17:43:32 GMT -5
Understand that if the DD drives it without insurance and it's tempting, the OP is on the hook for it. The simplest answer is no to the car coming over.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Aug 26, 2015 19:15:27 GMT -5
I only have a few minutes, and I wanted to clarify a few things:
1) XH did not buy DD a car. He is giving her the car the he and I purchased in 1999. I paid the car off by 2003-4. He is not using the car because it's not in great condition. We agreed that he got that car in our divorce agreement.
2) We've talked here about XH's financial situation compared with my financial situation. He decided that, as I am a public school teacher, I am rich. He had no idea that I had gone into administration, so he didn't realize I'd increased my salary for three years. He paid child support intermittently for three years; he stopped paying completely in 2010. Originally, I tried to negotiate with him that as long as I claimed both girls tax wise, I wouldn't go through the state for child support. That worked for 2012 but in 2013 he claimed on of the girls. I decided to go through the state to get the child support and the arrears which were ~$12,000.
3)During the conversation about the insurance, he was not paying child support nor had I started filed for the state services yet. When the state decided he was going to pay me and the state decided to garnish his wages, he told DD that he wasn't going to pay for her insurance.
I'm out for the rest of the night folks. Talk to ya tomorrow about what to do.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Aug 26, 2015 19:22:28 GMT -5
You might want to check on the insurance it may not go up.
When DS got his license we put him on our insurance and he was 2nd driver on my truck which had full insurance with collision. When we bought a $900 car and put him as the driver our insurance actually went DOWN $15 a month since we did not have collision on his truck.
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