Gender and lifestyle biased? Or just creepy?

[quince]

He is not putting it down as an interest on a specific form for a home school group. They are using Meetup, which is a thing that has many groups. He as as an interest BDSM and whatever, which brings up groups he might join. Apparently on the profile, this cannot be hidden, and it lists all interests. 

If someone had LGBT Pride groups, or gay dads/moms ...is that creepy? Because that can communicate sexual preference.

If they actually introduce themselves in a message or in person leading with "And I'm a swinger..." Yeah, fucking creepy. Part of a long list of interests? Less so. If their list is ALL kink related, plus ONE homeschool group? ...also weird, actually.

Gender bias that is OK:  more creeped out by a kinky single dad than a kinky single mom. Paying attention to gut reactions by being more vigilant and taking precautions. Deciding that male babysitters are not for you. 

Gender bias that is NOT OK:  Knee jerk rejecting entirely all dads that don't come across at first glance with a Mister Rodgers vibe.   Excluding dads from homeschool groups. Excluding single dads from homeschool groups. Assuming without meeting/being exposed to/etc that all dads who go with their kids to the playground have something wrong with them. Deciding there is something wrong with male babysitters. 

[quince]

I say probably has had sex because...who knows? asexual adoptive parents? Maybe?  

[lurkyloo]

Aug 16, 2015 13:05:25 GMT -5 quince said:

Aug 16, 2015 12:49:33 GMT -5 kent said:

He didn't add this into his kid-related profile. He has a single meetup profile with all his interests.  It shows all his interests, because you can't make some invisible. Done.  If Oped gets a creepy vibe, it is utterly appropriate to be cautious and not welcome him with open arms. It IS overreacting to call the authorities because someone is creepy online. Especially appropriate to be cautious because of the conflicting information given in person and on profile.

I have ONE meetup profile. I wouldn't think to create a separate one if I ticked off BDSM as an interest, because I don't see anything wrong or creepy with BDSM. I wouldn't put it on my Facebook profile or have my profile pic be related, but I wouldn't hide it either. 

I agree that calling the authorities is overreacting...but it sounds like he went into a lot of detail about sexual interests and preferences on the profile, as well as the whole claiming single but actually married thing.  While I wouldn't jump automatically to pedophilia and child abuse I think it's weird and inappropriate to be soliciting sex partners (mainstream or not) with the same profile you use to set up homeschooling activities for your kids.  

[quince]

I do think that oped doesn't need to have her open-minded card revoked. 

If someone creeps you out, they creep you out, and we have instincts to keep us safe. It's fine to examine the reason for your reactions, but AFTER you take precautions. Maybe you felt more unsafe because there was a person dressed shabbily than you would have with someone with nicer clothes. Or more threatened by a male than  a female, a person of a different race than you than one of the same, etc, etc, etc.  Examine your reasons for feeling threatened after you're out of the situation- no need to take risks to be egalitarian.

Be kind, apologize if you do something hurtful, give people a chance when you can, and be safe. 

[quince]

It's more like you have a Facebook account, and you join groups such as your local PTA...and you also have your BDSM group on it. And Pride. And a Nudist/Naturist group.

I would find putting BDSM on your PTA group application to be weird. I would find putting My Little Pony on your BDSM group's membership application to be weird(unless it is a pony play group?) 

I wouldn't be joining PTA groups with my Facebook profile, because there exist people who would have an issue with the fact that I have atheist as my religion. I understand that there is wisdom in separating unrelated parts of your life or that there are some aspects of your life that you save yourself a lot of grief by hiding.  Shows bad judgement, but not creepy to me. Probably because I don't find bdsm creepy.  Some people do, and even if they are intellectually OK with people doing it as consenting adults, their ick radars are still pinged.

I would be pinged by a coprophagia interest.

Or, for that matter, a MRA group membership. Or a fundamental Christian group membership. 

I think it is probably good that his judgement was bad, because oped was already on creep-alert after seeing his picture.  Having a wide variety of kink interests on the same profile, discrepancy between stated marital status and profile... reinforced the creep-alert, and precautions will be taken. All is right with the world.

[quince]

And you could be a member of a BDSM group without trolling for partners.

I am not a member of any BDSM groups, but that's because I hate people.  (Also, my interest in BDSM is pretty light.)

 I have been told, though, that people do enjoy socializing with others who have shared interests or experiences. I assume that includes people who are into BDSM.   Maybe some kinky parents would like to be friends with other kinky parents, so they can talk about the best locks to keep on your toy chest, how to explain things to your kids if they walk in on you or find your toys, how to live a kinky lifestyle, but in the same way people live vanilla lifestyles: Sex is private, but not something to be hidden and buried like a shameful thing.

Or maybe because relationships can be strengthened by shared experiences, and I don't mean sex with everyone you know.  "Hey, my conservative parents called CPS because they dug around and found our bondage gear. Where can I find friends who can understand and support me in this shitty time.?"

[weltschmerz]

I know a few people who are into BDSM. They're actually good parents. Not everyone is into vanilla sex with the lights out, and if you prefer something a little more exotic, it doesn't make you a pedophile.

[milee]

For the record, I don't consider BDSM itself creepy, my post was addressing the issue of appropriate boundaries between adult activities and activities that one does with children. I don't care if it's BDSM or vanilla sex in the missionary position with the lights out, if those are the interests you're listing on your Meetup profile which you know the group will see when they consider your application to join a homeschool group or PTA application, that might be an indication that boundaries may be an issue - especially given the extra info Oped had about the slightly "off" responses on the homeschool application.

Since I hadn't been on Meetup for a while, I thought I'd take a look to refresh my memory of how it was structured.  (Funny thing was that one of the first groups listed in the home page - based I'm assuming on cookies or other indications of my searches - was a Skeptics Group. )  Anyway, I clicked around a little and quickly found that it's very easy to show or hide the groups you're part of as well as your interests.  If you choose not to hide them, when someone clicks on your profile page, it shows your picture with a list of those other groups and interests prominently displayed down the right side of your profile page.  If this guy doesn't understand that keeping his adult activities and interests public when attempting to join in meetups with kids is inappropriate, then he's either dumb or has boundary issues.  It's similar to the idiots who have pics of them doing illegal drugs on Facebook and can't understand why people don't hire them.

It's not about judging BDSM or any of his particular interests, it's about questioning his understanding of appropriateness and boundaries.

[MJ2.0]

I wish I could unread things sometimes.

[quince]

BDSM group membership =/= "I like to be tied up, blindfolded, and have urethral sounds used on me."    The femdom thing is getting a bit specific though.

Agree with poor judgement, though, especially since there are apparently privacy settings on the profile. 

I do think there is a difference between mentioning your wife, and saying "I like to have sex exclusively with women." I assume you do the former and not the latter.

[mmhmm]

saying he likes to give "all kids a chance to do hands on"

Frankly, coupled with the other information given, that statement made the hair stand up on the back of my neck.

[quince]

1) Not all BDSM actually involves sex acts.
2) Some people wear shirts that say stupid things like..."Sticks and stones may break my bones, but whips and chains excite me." Generally not to PTA meetings, but unless you teach at the school, in my opinion, perfectly acceptable to wear when you might bump into one of your kid's friend's parents. Not tasteful, but not OMG creepy person inducing either.

BDSM is a lot less explicit than femdom, pegging, pony play, and scat as a keyword. One is a big, general category, the others are descriptive of scenarios or sex acts. Saying "BDSM is an interest of mine" for most people, I hope, causes a lot less TMI flagging than "Experimenting with large-diameter dildos is an interest of mine." 

BDSM does have nothing to do with what gender you are attracted to. Also, what gender you are attracted to doesn't have anything to do with education. (Unless you're part of a conservative christian homeschooling group?)  Using your partner's pronouns is not the same as stating that you are homosexual, or heterosexual. 

ETA: I think to me, there is a difference between kinks, and the kink community. BDSM or even kink or fetish as an interest group makes me think of a big, broad group, that facilitates community, and doesn't actually give a lot of specific information about what the person is interested in, whereas specific acts as an interest (femdom, specific fetishes, etc) seem less appropriate, as you actually get more of a window into things you don't want to know.

[mroped]

Seen his profile picture and the dude gives me that "preacher" feeling.
Looks like somebody that would behave terrible awkward in public, that would struggle having a discussion with someone that he doesn't know.
For that matter(and to put DW at peace) I will have to attend the next meeting when introductions will be done.
I can't pass judgement until I meet him.

[milee]

Aug 16, 2015 23:50:06 GMT -5 quince said:

1) Not all BDSM actually involves sex acts.
2) Some people wear shirts that say stupid things like..."Sticks and stones may break my bones, but whips and chains excite me." Generally not to PTA meetings, but unless you teach at the school, in my opinion, perfectly acceptable to wear when you might bump into one of your kid's friend's parents. Not tasteful, but not OMG creepy person inducing either.

BDSM is a lot less explicit than femdom, pegging, pony play, and scat as a keyword. One is a big, general category, the others are descriptive of scenarios or sex acts. Saying "BDSM is an interest of mine" for most people, I hope, causes a lot less TMI flagging than "Experimenting with large-diameter dildos is an interest of mine." 

BDSM does have nothing to do with what gender you are attracted to. Also, what gender you are attracted to doesn't have anything to do with education. (Unless you're part of a conservative christian homeschooling group?)  Using your partner's pronouns is not the same as stating that you are homosexual, or heterosexual. 

ETA: I think to me, there is a difference between kinks, and the kink community. BDSM or even kink or fetish as an interest group makes me think of a big, broad group, that facilitates community, and doesn't actually give a lot of specific information about what the person is interested in, whereas specific acts as an interest (femdom, specific fetishes, etc) seem less appropriate, as you actually get more of a window into things you don't want to know.

Again, it's not about whether BDSM is "OK" or not, it's not about whether interest involves an actual sex act, it's not about where it ranks on the scale of explicitness.

Using your t-shirt example, the issue is that listing it - as well as the lengthy list of other adult activities/interests on his public profile - is equivalent to wearing the "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but whips and chains excite me" to the homeschool information booth at a festival about children's activities. 

[hoops902]

Aug 16, 2015 12:49:33 GMT -5 kent said:

Aug 16, 2015 11:23:45 GMT -5 swamp said:

His sex stuff doesn't involve the kids.  That overreacting. 

Doesn't involve the kids?  And how do we know that?  Overreacting?  Kids are "potentially" at risk.  When it comes to the safety and well being of kids, you can NEVER be too cautious IMO.  

Kids are always potentially at risk. Kids are no more at risk with him now than if he had the same thoughts but didn't put it on a profile for something which a homeschool group could go in and look at because it crosses over.

People seem locked on the idea that he didn't put it on a separate profile. Having it on the same profile or a different one makes no difference in the fact that he's into this stuff.

If you're creeped out then avoid him, it's your life. I wouldn't let the idea that "he should have used a different profile" get to you though. If I say I'm into dressing like a parakeet and pooping on newspaper it doesn't matter if I list it in my profile or a separate one you can't find...I'm still into dressing like a parakeet and pooping on newspaper.

[Deleted]

I will be honest my first vibe was from his photo and our page intro specifically (we require certain questions to join). I'm not sure why? If it was him in the photo, or him using a portrait of himself. Just little wording things. I will say that I looked at his photo and instantly thought of past father I referenced before. I pulled pics of both up, examined them for similarities to see if that was the cause. Didn't think so. I engaged in some messaging with him because I didn't want to jump to unfounded conclusions. Ie. I couldn't find a logical reason, not anything anything specific I can say causing my radar to go off, just ...

Then I see the interest list, and now the squirm was full blown.

Again though if the pic is his whole meetup image, different than just family meetup pic. That would explain a single portrait style. That said on our specific sign in page he also did not mention a wife and it would have been appropriate there, and only visible to our group.

[ArchietheDragon]

Any male who wants their kid to do homeschooling is a little suspect to begin with. 

[MJ2.0]

Aug 17, 2015 8:44:40 GMT -5 oped said:

I will be honest my first vibe was from his photo and our page intro specifically (we require certain questions to join). I'm not sure why? If it was him in the photo, or him using a portrait of himself. Just little wording things. I will say that I looked at his photo and instantly thought of past father I referenced before. I pulled pics of both up, examined them for similarities to see if that was the cause. Didn't think so. I engaged in some messaging with him because I didn't want to jump to unfounded conclusions. Ie. I couldn't find a logical reason, not anything anything specific I can say causing my radar to go off, just ...

Then I see the interest list, and now the squirm was full blown.

Again though if the pic is his whole meetup image, different than just family meetup pic. That would explain a single portrait style. That said on our specific sign in page he also did not mention a wife and it would have been appropriate there, and only visible to our group.

you don't really need to explain your gut instinct/bad vibes feeling. If you get a weird vibe, you get a weird vibe. Can't really control that.

[Deleted]

Thanks MJ. But I know I have a tendency to maybe overreact sometimes, so I do at least try to think it through as rationally as I can.

We've had/ do have great dads in group. It's not a dad thing overall Arch.

I do think sometimes if I was just a little less intelligent (and we had no technology) i'd easy be a conspiracy theorizing agorophobe. As it is, forcing myself to actively apply logic keeps me functional

(Eta: That is not to suggest agorophobic people are stupid... )

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2015 8:52:27 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Aug 17, 2015 8:44:40 GMT -5 oped said:

I will be honest my first vibe was from his photo and our page intro specifically (we require certain questions to join). I'm not sure why? If it was him in the photo, or him using a portrait of himself. Just little wording things. I will say that I looked at his photo and instantly thought of past father I referenced before. I pulled pics of both up, examined them for similarities to see if that was the cause. Didn't think so. I engaged in some messaging with him because I didn't want to jump to unfounded conclusions. Ie. I couldn't find a logical reason, not anything anything specific I can say causing my radar to go off, just ...

Then I see the interest list, and now the squirm was full blown.

Again though if the pic is his whole meetup image, different than just family meetup pic. That would explain a single portrait style. That said on our specific sign in page he also did not mention a wife and it would have been appropriate there, and only visible to our group.

you don't really need to explain your gut instinct/bad vibes feeling. If you get a weird vibe, you get a weird vibe. Can't really control that.

I agree. Even if you couldn't identify why, I think you should exercise caution when your gut seems to be telling you something. I don't get the impression that you walk around being suspicious of every person you come into contact with (paranoid), so I think when something does seem off to you, it's better to be safe than sorry. Especially when children are involved.

If he turns out to be a decent guy that's just kind of clueless or socially awkward, he should appreciate your concern about who joins the homeschool group that he's interested in for his children.

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2015 9:16:28 GMT -5 oped said:

Thanks MJ. But I know I have a tendency to maybe overreact sometimes, so I do at least try to think it through as rationally as I can.

We've had/ do have great dads in group. It's not a dad thing overall Arch.

I do think sometimes if I was just a little less intelligent (and we had no technology) i'd easy be a conspiracy theorizing agorophobe. As it is, forcing myself to actively apply logic keeps me functional

(Eta: That is not to suggest agorophobic people are stupid... )

Uh oh. Does this mean I was a little wrong about you being paranoid?

[mroped]

We'll see what comes of it tomorrow evening at the meet.
If something is not kosher then I could always put on a heavier accent and go full blown Liam Nesson on him

[Deleted]

Pink, No, I'm not that bad . But I can see how if I weren't so interested in the logical and rational, I might be tempted down a darker path  

[Green Eyed Lady]

Dang. People sure could avoid a lot of problems for themselves if they'd just keep private stuff private.  It's such an easy solution.

Hoops was right, tho. If he hadn't posted his preferences, they still would have been his preferences. I'm betting there's more than 1 person in your group who enjoys a bit of variety in their sex life. The difference is, they are smart enough not to mix the two.  When it comes to teaching kids, I'd be more worried about his lack of common sense than his sexual preferences.

[milee]

Aug 17, 2015 8:20:20 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Aug 16, 2015 12:49:33 GMT -5 kent said:

Doesn't involve the kids?  And how do we know that?  Overreacting?  Kids are "potentially" at risk.  When it comes to the safety and well being of kids, you can NEVER be too cautious IMO.  

Kids are always potentially at risk. Kids are no more at risk with him now than if he had the same thoughts but didn't put it on a profile for something which a homeschool group could go in and look at because it crosses over.

People seem locked on the idea that he didn't put it on a separate profile. Having it on the same profile or a different one makes no difference in the fact that he's into this stuff.

If you're creeped out then avoid him, it's your life. I wouldn't let the idea that "he should have used a different profile" get to you though. If I say I'm into dressing like a parakeet and pooping on newspaper it doesn't matter if I list it in my profile or a separate one you can't find...I'm still into dressing like a parakeet and pooping on newspaper.

There is a difference, though, between what you're describing and what I'm reacting to.  I don't care if he wants to dress like a parakeet and poop on newspaper (as long as he's doing that alone or with other consenting adults.)  You apparently think sexual behavior outside the accepted norm corresponds to an increased risk of child molestation; I do not believe that.  I care when it becomes obvious that he doesn't understand appropriate boundaries, including how much disclosure of adult behavior is OK and generally appropriate behavior around children. 

In other words, I don't believe that dressing like a parakeet, BDSM, being a cheating SOB, wanting to hook up with another mom for a threesome or any of that is necessarily an indication that this person is a child molester.  The adult behavior isn't the issue.  What is an issue is an adult that doesn't understand boundaries and separation between adult activity and activity that's appropriate around children, because that lack of understanding of boundaries and what is appropriate in which setting DOES indicate a risk for someone who lacks judgment about appropriate behavior around children. 

Participate in all the kink you want, doesn't alarm me that you may harm my children.  Once you start to discuss your kinks around my children or display your kinks publicly where it's likely that children will see them, that's a whole 'nother matter and when the red flags come out.

[milee]

BTW, if you ever want a small window into how many child molesters think, I think the Michael Jackson interviews were a good look. He comes across as a sweet person spoiling children and wanting to be their friend; he views himself as their peer (even though he was in his 40s or 50s at the time) and thinks they are "friends" instead of him having any power in the relationship. That's pretty classic grooming and also typical of how many of the child molesters think. They don't see a boundary issue about sleeping naked in the same bed with an 11 year old because they're "friends" and they both "enjoy" what happens. 

Any time you have an adult who doesn't understand the basic boundary between what should be adult behavior and what's appropriate behavior to conduct with children, there is an increased risk of harm to the child.   

[swamp]

Aug 17, 2015 12:32:10 GMT -5 milee said:

BTW, if you ever want a small window into how many child molesters think, I think the Michael Jackson interviews were a good look. He comes across as a sweet person spoiling children and wanting to be their friend; he views himself as their peer (even though he was in his 40s or 50s at the time) and thinks they are "friends" instead of him having any power in the relationship. That's pretty classic grooming and also typical of how many of the child molesters think. They don't see a boundary issue about sleeping naked in the same bed with an 11 year old because they're "friends" and they both "enjoy" what happens. 

Any time you have an adult who doesn't understand the basic boundary between what should be adult behavior and what's appropriate behavior to conduct with children, there is an increased risk of harm to the child.   

[

Michael Jackson interviews are a perfect example of a peek into the mind of a pedophile.

[milee]

Aug 17, 2015 12:48:44 GMT -5 swamp said:

Aug 17, 2015 12:32:10 GMT -5 milee said:

BTW, if you ever want a small window into how many child molesters think, I think the Michael Jackson interviews were a good look. He comes across as a sweet person spoiling children and wanting to be their friend; he views himself as their peer (even though he was in his 40s or 50s at the time) and thinks they are "friends" instead of him having any power in the relationship. That's pretty classic grooming and also typical of how many of the child molesters think. They don't see a boundary issue about sleeping naked in the same bed with an 11 year old because they're "friends" and they both "enjoy" what happens. 

Any time you have an adult who doesn't understand the basic boundary between what should be adult behavior and what's appropriate behavior to conduct with children, there is an increased risk of harm to the child.   

[

Michael Jackson interviews are a perfect example of a peek into the mind of a pedophile.

Agreed. I was a CASA for foster kids at the time, so had been involved with not only the training, the statistics, but actually dealing with some awful people. When I watched the Michael Jackson interviews, the hair on the back of my neck stood up and I got chills. It was so obvious that he just wasn't dealing in reality and thought of himself as a 9 year old, so anything that happened in his bed between him and another 9 year old was just fun play between friends. I still get chills thinking about it and was so sad that many people interpreted the interviews as showing what a nice, kind guy he was to want to play with the kids and give them all sorts of things. Ick.

[shanendoah]

So this made me look at my Meetup profile.
It has a picture of 18 y/o me, probably because that was my FB pic at the time I joined. If it had my current FB pic, it would be one of my dogs.
No where does it have a spot that I would put in either single or married.
I have no interests listed, though I think you can see that I am part of the Northwest Pet Bloggers group.

So I might seem creepy, I might not. Don't know.
I have no idea how to look for someone else's meetup profile, so can't look at C's.
But I could easily see him being at least a little interested in home schooling (we've talked about it - just don't think it would work for Pop Tart). His other interest would include Dungeons & Dragons, Role Playing Games, etc.

So I have to wonder, if C asked to attend a home schooling meet up, and his profile indicated he was a man in his 40s, with a unibomber beard, who likes playing D&D, and he wanted to talk about home schooling his adopted pre-teen daughter, would that set off people's creepy radar?

Honestly, I think oped and mroped are doing this the right way here. They have decided not to let the person be part of the group that shares info about their kids until they have actually met him in person. He is invited to a large gathering where the group, if not as a whole, then in a plurality, will get to meet him and decide whether or not they want him to be a member. Personally, I think this should maybe be their standard protocol for all new members, even if an established member doesn't just recommend, but vouches for them. Bring them to one of the large, public gatherings. Let people meet and make a decision before someone can see locations for where kids are going to be.

[milee]

Aug 17, 2015 13:27:54 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

So I have to wonder, if C asked to attend a home schooling meet up, and his profile indicated he was a man in his 40s, with a unibomber beard, who likes playing D&, and he wanted to talk about home schooling his adopted pre-teen daughter, would that set off people's creepy radar?

Nothing you listed would set off my child molester creepy radar.

And from the OP, I'm guessing the concern was whether the guy is a child molester, not just a weird guy.  There are plenty of people I meet that I think are weird and that I wouldn't necessarily personally like or want to be friends with, but that's a very different thing than whether you're worried that they're child molesters or are "safe" to join a group with children.