Serial decision evaders

[8 Bit WWBG]

Do any of you deal routinely with people who either cannot make a decision, or who it is clear what they want, but they go to great lengths to be the one to actually say it?  The first I can kind of understand given how much information is out there.  The second is infuriating.

For example, every question is answered by parrying the question back to you.  If you ask them to make a choice, they will ask about sub-details.  When you eliminate options and get down to "yes, or no", the answer is always "if that's what you prefer" or something along those lines.

I think that some people don't want to be held responsible.  They will go to great lengths to retain the ability to say "You were the one who chose that, not me".

I've started treating that as license to do what I want, especially if I have been reasonably accommodating.  Choosing not to choose is a choice, and I've been taught time and time again that an absence of objection is considered approval.

You?

[quince]

I actually prefer not to make decisions(in our home. I was fine with it at work.), but not so I can shift blame: because I second guess myself and do not trust my judgement. I accept responsibility for the outcome of my non-decision making- my husband thinks I blame too much on myself. The standards I hold for myself in outcome of my decisions I do not hold others to, because they are unrealistic.

My spouse is doing his best to persuade me that it is OK for me to make mistakes, and that what I want matters. I appreciate it and am trying to adapt my behavior.

[Spellbound454]

People like to absolve themselves of responsibility and then say.... "I told you so" when it goes wrong.

[Artemis Windsong]

Yikes.  I'm not that bad,Sroo.

I do not answer questions directly which drives my DH to distraction.  He'll say it's either yes or no.

I used to be much worse.  My DM decided everything for me.  She seldom let me make a decision all the way down to the kind of hamburger sandwich I was going to eat.  I just went along with friends to whatever movie they picked even if it was one I didn't care to see.

She would remove all the clothes from my closet, so I had but one choice of what to wear.  It was usually pretty drab.

One time she gave me a cc to go buy a pair of pants.  I bought some that would now be considered leggings.  OMG I was gripped at by her.  I wore them to a social with a couple of adults friends and kids.  I was berated, so badly that I nearly walked home. 

Just a couple of examples in a long difficult teen age years.

My DH helped me with the kids because I turned into the decision maker.  Decorated their rooms, picked their clothes and school supplies.  He would say that is not what they want.

Now kids are making all kinds of decisions.

[NancysSummerSip]

Aug 3, 2015 15:21:20 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

Do any of you deal routinely with people who either cannot make a decision, or who it is clear what they want, but they go to great lengths to be the one to actually say it?  The first I can kind of understand given how much information is out there.  The second is infuriating.

For example, every question is answered by parrying the question back to you.  If you ask them to make a choice, they will ask about sub-details.  When you eliminate options and get down to "yes, or no", the answer is always "if that's what you prefer" or something along those lines.

I think that some people don't want to be held responsible.  They will go to great lengths to retain the ability to say "You were the one who chose that, not me".

I've started treating that as license to do what I want, especially if I have been reasonably accommodating.  Choosing not to choose is a choice, and I've been taught time and time again that an absence of objection is considered approval.

You?

Oh, heck yes. And worse, when I do make the definitive decision, it does not suit them. Which makes me want to throttle them while I scream, "WELL, WHY THE FUCK DID YOU ASK ME TO DECIDE IF YOU WEREN'T GOING TO LIKE THE DECISION?"

I like clear-cut decision-making. I can live with a wrong decision. I cannot stand wishy-washy, indecisive types.

[Blonde Granny]

I never used to be the person who couldn't make a decision, but as I've gotten older and more cost conscious of items I will stand there and dither back and forth forever if DH doesn't kick me and tell me to just make a damned decision. I'm also quite good at making a decision, then the next day changing my mind....drives him crazy.

I will stand in a store looking at some darn toaster or something, and for the life of me I can't choose....which is better, which is more money, why is it more money, maybe I should just buy the least expensive, if I buy the cheapest, maybe I should buy the better one....which one will last longer, it just goes on and on.

I think I really got that way as I was taking over the finances for us, and the reality set in that we're retired, don't want to take principle from investments and have to live on our monthly income.....

[happyhoix]

Yes, Mom was like this.

Dad always made the big decisions for them and Mom always bitched about all his decisions. Everything she was unhappy about in her life was always HIS FAULT.

When dad died, she tried to get her kids to decide things for her. I would try to avoid it, but sometimes she would nag and nag to know what my opinion was, and I would finally tell her, and she would spend the next 20 minutes lecturing me on how that was NOT the right choice. Then she would call up each of my siblings and nag them to tell her what THEY thought, and then tell them why their opinion was wrong, too - even if they suggested what she had just told me five minutes before, was the RIGHT thing to do.

When she finally DID decide something, she would tell me on Monday, and then by Friday she would have not only changed her mind, but she would be offended that I ever thought she was going to do anything other than what she had decided to do on Friday. Until I called her back Monday, when she had decided to do something different.

If she wasn't my Mom, I would have never had any more contact with her.


 

[8 Bit WWBG]

Yeah, people who let the clock run out because they didn't want to decide, then are faced with no good options and every option makes them mad, suck!  You would think that the consequences of doing so would teach them to make decisions earlier.  But for some, procrastination is a drug.  Or perhaps, so long as I don't choose, I have options and possibilities.

People who know what they want, and try to lead you to come up with it aren't fun.  I think the worst is the person who doesn't know what they want, but sure knows what they DON'T want!

Me: what do you want to eat.
2: I don't care, anything is fine.
Me: how about pizza.
2: No, I had that 2 days ago.
Me: how about tacos
2: I don't feel like that.

[Shooby]

So, embrace it. You can make the decision and do so. And, eventually everyone will know who the real decision maker is. I mean, there are times I try to let others make a decision or come to a consensus. But I am not going to waste my time with nonsense. If nobody can make a decision, then I will make it and if they don't like my decision, tough taters.

We used to travel with friends on vacation. It was a never ending round of "where do you want to go for dinner?". They never wanted to spend much to eat out. So, finally DH and I just got tired of that and we wanted to go to nicer places so we just started saying "We are going to X restaurant for dinner and you are welcome to join us". That way, everybody can do what they want. And, if they come along and don't like it, oh well, everyone is a grown up.

[Tiny]

I know a few people who have trouble making a decision if there's more than 3 choices OR if it's they are being asked to choose to do something a slightly different way (the old way is good! why can't we can't keep doing it the old way - even though I HATE doing it the old way and bitch and moan endlessly about having to do it the old way and why can't we do it some other way!) OR if you try to 'rush' them into a decision.  If you push them too hard over the dessert menu (they know they want the cannoli) but since you implied that they were taking too long to decide - they will spend 15 minutes reading thru the dessert menu... and then order the cannoli.   

I've known a few people with whom you must play 20 questions - to get to what it is they want (or their decision) even though they've already decided or know what it is they want...  I avoid these people as best I can.   


FWIW:  My mother wouldn't make a decision either -  I think it was her way of always being 'Right'... because no matter what decision I ultimately made for the situation (that effected BOTH of us) - she could complain or dissapprove of it.   

There is a certain 'art form' to the non-decision thing... especially if you are going to reap the rewards of the other person's decision AND actively complain/dissapprove of the outcome (even though it benefited you).  

[Shooby]

I agree though, it is just a passive aggressive way for many people so that if it doesn't work out, then they can beyotche that it wasn't their idea and they would not have done it that way, blah, blah.

[Deleted]

I sit on committees with some of them.  It's all about deniability in case the organic stuff hits the ventilator.  In a Freudian moment I accidentally (that's my story and I'm sticking to it!) listed one person's last name as "abstain" in the minutes.  That's how I think of her - she hasn't voted for or against anything in two long years.

[Tiny]

Aug 3, 2015 15:21:20 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

 
I've started treating that as license to do what I want, especially if I have been reasonably accommodating.  Choosing not to choose is a choice, and I've been taught time and time again that an absence of objection is considered approval.

You?

Yes, I've learned that it's often easier to get forgiveness than to get permission.... 

[Shooby]

People who sit on committees and "abstain" in my opinion are neglecting the duties they were appointed for. While I do think there may be times to abstain, that should be rare and you should be voting Yes or No for the most part.

[Opti]

Aug 3, 2015 15:21:20 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

Do any of you deal routinely with people who either cannot make a decision, or who it is clear what they want, but they go to great lengths to be the one to actually say it?  The first I can kind of understand given how much information is out there.  The second is infuriating.

For example, every question is answered by parrying the question back to you.  If you ask them to make a choice, they will ask about sub-details.  When you eliminate options and get down to "yes, or no", the answer is always "if that's what you prefer" or something along those lines.

I think that some people don't want to be held responsible.  They will go to great lengths to retain the ability to say "You were the one who chose that, not me".

I've started treating that as license to do what I want, especially if I have been reasonably accommodating.  Choosing not to choose is a choice, and I've been taught time and time again that an absence of objection is considered approval.

You?

Have you ever considered that this is also the behavior of some people who are people pleasers? Some people, especially some women, are taught to never put their needs ahead of anyone.

[Tiny]

Just to be fair,  I do know that sometimes people need some time to come to a decision - especially business decsisions or big life impacting decisions.     I get that.  And I can respect that.

But, when they can see the Fork in the Road up ahead and still put off talking/thinking about having to make the decision (they can see it coming! it's the elephant in the room!!) that, that just fries my hide.  

I HATE going in 'cold' when it's obvious a decision(s) is going to need to be made - I'd much rather have contemplated various consequences, played out some scenarios in my head, gotten more info, have some sort of a game plan (or have some idea of the decisions I'll be asked to make) BEFORE I get to the Fork in the Road - You know that Fork I could plainly see getting closer and closer - why not prepare for it?  

[Tiny]

Aug 3, 2015 16:48:35 GMT -5 Opti said:

Aug 3, 2015 15:21:20 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

Have you ever considered that this is also the behavior of some people who are people pleasers? Some people, especially some women, are taught to never put their needs ahead of anyone.

   I have a friend who seems to uphold the social mores/common courtesy of women the late 1700's (Jane Austen is her favorite author). 

It's impolite to ASK or say what it is you want.  You can't even hint at it.   It's frustrating and annoying in the 21st century. 
 I hate playing 20 questions.

[HoneyBBQ]

No, I love them. Then I get to do whatever I want and not be bossy!

[NastyWoman]

There are a number of them at work and I have learned to work around them by first asking for input (might be a few times depending on how much time I have) and then telling everyone "unless someone tells me why I should not do so, I will do XXX at this time. Please comment..."

and than I go ahead and do what I said I would!

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"A people-pleaser is ok with whatever you want. These people want you to make the decision and then b*tch about it later. Or in the case of my ex, they want you to make the decision they are making but feel like it was really your decision.":::...

I'm with you mostly.  The people pleaser might not love the decision, but if it pleases the person they are fine.  The evader will play games.

[swamp]

Ain't nobody got time for games. 

[msventoux]

I work with one.  The person is scary smart, but they have so much crap to sift through in their head and so many options to weigh that they become paralyzed at actually making a decision re: technical issues. 

Sometimes not being that bright is a blessing, at least I can make a decision and be decisive about it. 

In my social circle I do have one person that can't make a decision and it's about turning all the focus on herself and everyone pandering to her whims.  She no longer gets asked her opinion.  We tell her where we'll be at a specific time and what we're doing and she can come join us or not.  Sometimes we don't bother to include her at all. 

[Opti]

Aug 3, 2015 20:38:23 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"A people-pleaser is ok with whatever you want. These people want you to make the decision and then b*tch about it later. Or in the case of my ex, they want you to make the decision they are making but feel like it was really your decision.":::...

I'm with you mostly.  The people pleaser might not love the decision, but if it pleases the person they are fine.  The evader will play games.

WWBG, I'm totally guessing, but I think this is about your DW. If it is, or even if it is not a boss but colleagues, co-workers, etc. I'll tell you how *I* would deal with it.

I don't do twenty questions. Only if I really like the person would I even ask more than one or two. You want me to make the decision, fine. Done. You want to bitch about it later? Death glare, followed with a 'you had the opportunity to pick and you did not. I guess next time you'll make a better choice. '

I've had people in my life you wanted me to lead, to pick. While I like doing so, its also why I prefer other strong people with opinions in my life. We are clear on what we want, do not want, and are willing to own our choices and roll with when things do not work out. Remember, you do not have to play the game generally. You can opt out. Its *your* fault if you do not.

[Opti]

Aug 3, 2015 21:03:24 GMT -5 msventoux said:

I work with one.  The person is scary smart, but they have so much crap to sift through in their head and so many options to weigh that they become paralyzed at actually making a decision re: technical issues. 

Sometimes not being that bright is a blessing, at least I can make a decision and be decisive about it. 

In my social circle I do have one person that can't make a decision and it's about turning all the focus on herself and everyone pandering to her whims.  She no longer gets asked her opinion.  We tell her where we'll be at a specific time and what we're doing and she can come join us or not.  Sometimes we don't bother to include her at all. 

This is somewhat true of many smart people. We hate being wrong.

 

I am mostly over that.    I rely on the belief that decisions are like tacking a ship in the wind. You constantly have to adjust. So if you make a wrong decision, you just make a better one next time.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"Remember, you do not have to play the game generally. You can opt out. Its *your* fault if you do not.":::...

I don't agree with that.  As much as I've tried, no man can be an island.  At least, not a very well stocked, fulfilled island.

It was some co-workers with whom I was trying to coordinate something simple and mutually beneficial, though yes, DW does it too.  And the kicker is that it is usually not major stuff, so the consequences of a bad decision are pretty minimal.  One less-than-stellar meal.  One inconvenient showtime.  It's not like we are choosing someone to perform brain surgery!

[Opti]

Aug 3, 2015 15:57:05 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

Yikes.  I'm not that bad,Sroo.

I do not answer questions directly which drives my DH to distraction.  He'll say it's either yes or no.

I used to be much worse.  My DM decided everything for me.  She seldom let me make a decision all the way down to the kind of hamburger sandwich I was going to eat.  I just went along with friends to whatever movie they picked even if it was one I didn't care to see.

She would remove all the clothes from my closet, so I had but one choice of what to wear.  It was usually pretty drab.

One time she gave me a cc to go buy a pair of pants.  I bought some that would now be considered leggings.  OMG I was gripped at by her.  I wore them to a social with a couple of adults friends and kids.  I was berated, so badly that I nearly walked home. 

Just a couple of examples in a long difficult teen age years.

My DH helped me with the kids because I turned into the decision maker.  Decorated their rooms, picked their clothes and school supplies.  He would say that is not what they want.

Now kids are making all kinds of decisions.

Sorry your childhood sucked. Sounds like you repeated what your Mom did, until your DH helped you get past that.  to you and DH.

[Opti]

Aug 3, 2015 21:11:28 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"Remember, you do not have to play the game generally. You can opt out. Its *your* fault if you do not.":::...

I don't agree with that.  As much as I've tried, no man can be an island.  At least, not a very well stocked, fulfilled island.

It was some co-workers with whom I was trying to coordinate something simple and mutually beneficial, though yes, DW does it too.  And the kicker is that it is usually not major stuff, so the consequences of a bad decision are pretty minimal.  One less-than-stellar meal.  One inconvenient showtime.  It's not like we are choosing someone to perform brain surgery!

No person is an island, true. But you have to focus. Do what you want. Ignore the whining. Eventually they will get with the program or you will move onto a better wife and get better co-workers.

I currently have the game playing back stabbing co-worker from hell. But I am focused, I know what I want, and I have made the decision to play my way not hers. I will remain a team player. I will do the right thing. I will not play her game, I will outlast her. And yes, I will fully enjoy when all her bad decisions, story-telling, and inappropropriate behavior bites her in the ass.

[Lizard Queen]

I do tend to dally on decisions. It happens when a good alternative doesn't present itself. I think that i don't totally get where you're going with this thread, so i'm guessing that I'm part of the problem. People that jump on one thing after another bug me. Sometimes a decision doesn't have to be made right away, and jumping too soon will mean a bad decision happens.

As far as where to go to lunch or something along those lines, I'm not really going to care. Otherwise, i would speak up.

[teen persuasion]

Aug 3, 2015 21:22:55 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

I do tend to dally on decisions. It happens when a good alternative doesn't present itself. 

As far as where to go to lunch or something along those lines, I'm not really going to care. Otherwise, i would speak up.

If I know what I want, and can get it, I make the decision and it's done.  But if I go out looking for something specific, and can't find exactly what I want, I just won't choose one of them, I'll boycott them all.  It drives DH crazy, he just wants me to buy the thing, whatever it is, and be done with it.  I refuse to buy it if it isn't really what I want, I'll go home empty handed and keep looking.  It drives me crazy that there are a gazillion different versions of "it", but none of them have my desired combination of features.  How could all of the important features be available individually, but not together?

[Deleted]

Aug 3, 2015 15:21:20 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

I think that some people don't want to be held responsible.  They will go to great lengths to retain the ability to say "You were the one who chose that, not me".

BINGO

In bad corporate cultures you are held accountable for your decisions . . . however, there is no penalty for no decision or passive decisions. I hate working with people that won't own a decision.

I actually take this as license to do what I want, but document it to the non decision maker as "XYZ is the action that will be taken per our prior discussions, unless you respond to this email with alternate direction"

And there is a silent "idiot" at the end of that email.

Be very aware, that same person will throw you under the bus for 'your decision' in a heartbeat. That's why you need the CYA email.