Wisconsin Beth
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No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 4, 2015 8:46:57 GMT -5
Oh.. wait I'm that restaurant person In my defense we are usually trying to decide after the The Point Of No Return TM Or in other words after I should have eaten hours ago, by the time we start talking about it.. nothing sounds good and I'm grumpy or to use Wisconsin Beth's phrase Hangry. I keep telling MrSroo that when I get that bad.. don't listen to me and throw a bagel at me. I'll shut up and eat no matter where we are. I can't take credit for Hangry. I quoted someone earlier in that thread and for the life of me, I can't remember who. As for decisions, somebody's got to make them. I learned this after DH and I learned that our wedding venue couldn't accommodate the cake I wanted for our wedding - George Watt's Sunshine Cake. If I couldn't have that, I really didn't much care because cake is usually cake for me. But DH didn't really care either. So we went back and forth on the damn cake because neither one of us wanted to make the call. I finally did make a decision just to check it off the list! I've also learned that when something is important to me, I need to be specific about it. Archbishop Dolan was going to say Mass at my church when he was assigned here. I desperately wanted DH to attend with me. I told him about it and asked him if he'd like to come. He wasn't sure (I"m Catholic, DH is Lutheran) so he said he'd think about it. I'd ask if he made a decision, he'd say he's still thinking, etc. Day came and I went by myself. My epiphany during Mass what that I should have said "this is important to me, please come." instead of hoping that my repeated asking would sink in that I wanted him there with me. I do regret DH wasn't there with me but I don't blame him for not coming. He's not always good with subtle and I was trying not to nag.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Aug 4, 2015 10:02:26 GMT -5
Oh.. wait I'm that restaurant person In my defense we are usually trying to decide after the The Point Of No Return TM Or in other words after I should have eaten hours ago, by the time we start talking about it.. nothing sounds good and I'm grumpy or to use Wisconsin Beth's phrase Hangry. I keep telling MrSroo that when I get that bad.. don't listen to me and throw a bagel at me. I'll shut up and eat no matter where we are. I can't take credit for Hangry. I quoted someone earlier in that thread and for the life of me, I can't remember who. As for decisions, somebody's got to make them. I learned this after DH and I learned that our wedding venue couldn't accommodate the cake I wanted for our wedding - George Watt's Sunshine Cake. If I couldn't have that, I really didn't much care because cake is usually cake for me. But DH didn't really care either. So we went back and forth on the damn cake because neither one of us wanted to make the call. I finally did make a decision just to check it off the list! I've also learned that when something is important to me, I need to be specific about it. Archbishop Dolan was going to say Mass at my church when he was assigned here. I desperately wanted DH to attend with me. I told him about it and asked him if he'd like to come. He wasn't sure (I"m Catholic, DH is Lutheran) so he said he'd think about it. I'd ask if he made a decision, he'd say he's still thinking, etc. Day came and I went by myself. My epiphany during Mass what that I should have said "this is important to me, please come." instead of hoping that my repeated asking would sink in that I wanted him there with me. I do regret DH wasn't there with me but I don't blame him for not coming. He's not always good with subtle and I was trying not to nag. I think anne81 first mentioned Hangry here on the boards, but I've heard of the term before that elsewhere.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 4, 2015 10:22:28 GMT -5
I do tend to dally on decisions. It happens when a good alternative doesn't present itself. As far as where to go to lunch or something along those lines, I'm not really going to care. Otherwise, i would speak up. If I know what I want, and can get it, I make the decision and it's done. But if I go out looking for something specific, and can't find exactly what I want, I just won't choose one of them, I'll boycott them all. It drives DH crazy, he just wants me to buy the thing, whatever it is, and be done with it. I refuse to buy it if it isn't really what I want, I'll go home empty handed and keep looking. It drives me crazy that there are a gazillion different versions of "it", but none of them have my desired combination of features. How could all of the important features be available individually, but not together? That bit of 'waiting' for a better alternative usually works ok in everyday life - odds are if you wait long enough the 'issue' will resolve itself OR will get to a point where you only ONE option or maybe 2 options to choose from. This way of approaching a decision can be disasterous in the work place. There's often several choices - none of which has a "good" outcome (there are consequences that might be unpleasant). It's been my experience that the longer dwaddling goes on the worse the outcome (ie the problem/consequences just gets worse). Maybe it's the type of work environment I'm in.... Sometimes you make the decision between not so good choice and choose the "evil" you think you can cope with best - you don't wait around for it to get worse or in the mistaken belief that the "Good Outcome Fairy" will come along and magically fix things for you. <-- I've worked for bosses like that. I've also worked with coworkers who knew something was wrong/broken (or there was a pitfall ahead) and said NOTHING. I've also worked with end users who (maybe were too terrified to speak up?) who said NOTHING about some pitfall they knew was waiting. You can guess who I wouldn't choose to be stranded with on a desert island....
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Aug 4, 2015 10:55:35 GMT -5
If I know what I want, and can get it, I make the decision and it's done. But if I go out looking for something specific, and can't find exactly what I want, I just won't choose one of them, I'll boycott them all. It drives DH crazy, he just wants me to buy the thing, whatever it is, and be done with it. I refuse to buy it if it isn't really what I want, I'll go home empty handed and keep looking. It drives me crazy that there are a gazillion different versions of "it", but none of them have my desired combination of features. How could all of the important features be available individually, but not together? That bit of 'waiting' for a better alternative usually works ok in everyday life - odds are if you wait long enough the 'issue' will resolve itself OR will get to a point where you only ONE option or maybe 2 options to choose from. This way of approaching a decision can be disasterous in the work place. There's often several choices - none of which has a "good" outcome (there are consequences that might be unpleasant). It's been my experience that the longer dwaddling goes on the worse the outcome (ie the problem/consequences just gets worse). Maybe it's the type of work environment I'm in.... Sometimes you make the decision between not so good choice and choose the "evil" you think you can cope with best - you don't wait around for it to get worse or in the mistaken belief that the "Good Outcome Fairy" will come along and magically fix things for you. <-- I've worked for bosses like that. I've also worked with coworkers who knew something was wrong/broken (or there was a pitfall ahead) and said NOTHING. I've also worked with end users who (maybe were too terrified to speak up?) who said NOTHING about some pitfall they knew was waiting. You can guess who I wouldn't choose to be stranded with on a desert island.... Sure. I've been having trouble relating it to work now that I've been removed for a while. I gotta say, most of the times when decisions were evaded, it was due to things happening behind the scenes, the details of which I wasn't privy to. It was annoying though, as you just want to get your work done and keep running into roadblocks. However, charging ahead could get you in trouble, due to the previously mentioned behind the scenes workings. I don't know the answer, I've just happy to be out of that place!
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Aug 4, 2015 11:35:01 GMT -5
I work with one. The person is scary smart, but they have so much crap to sift through in their head and so many options to weigh that they become paralyzed at actually making a decision re: technical issues.
Sometimes not being that bright is a blessing, at least I can make a decision and be decisive about it. In my social circle I do have one person that can't make a decision and it's about turning all the focus on herself and everyone pandering to her whims. She no longer gets asked her opinion. We tell her where we'll be at a specific time and what we're doing and she can come join us or not. Sometimes we don't bother to include her at all. This is somewhat true of many smart people. We hate being wrong.
I am mostly over that. I rely on the belief that decisions are like tacking a ship in the wind. You constantly have to adjust. So if you make a wrong decision, you just make a better one next time.
some smart people recognize that you learn from being wrong. You don't learn anything when you insist it's your way or the highway.
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quince
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Post by quince on Aug 4, 2015 13:30:29 GMT -5
I do think that that highly capable or intelligent people avoid shit they aren't good at because they are so good at so many things, and failure feels BAD. Being able to risk failure also lets you accomplish more...
My husband has embraced the "failure is good" idea. I haven't embraced it yet but we're dating...we're just taking it really slow.
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PK Bucko
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Post by PK Bucko on Aug 4, 2015 13:36:42 GMT -5
Decisiveness will piss people off. You just have to deal with it when it happens.
Some people are not just afraid of making a decision, they are offended by those that can make decisions.
Just do it and let the chips fall.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 4, 2015 14:38:04 GMT -5
DH dithers and dithers. It drives me nuts. I just make all the plans and arrangements and get on with my life. He's a procrastinator on top of it. I hate being the bad guy but he needs to make some plans while he's capable of making them. I know nada about the things he has to make these decisions on so he's got to make them and I have to stay on top of it to make sure it gets done.
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Aug 4, 2015 14:49:28 GMT -5
Worse (much worse) is the person who has actually made the decision, but wants to make you feel as if you made the decision.
Ex: Where would you like to go to dinner? Anywhere is fine. Me: Mama Mia's Italian restaurant sounds good. Ex: No, not there. Me: Highland's? Ex: No, that's not right.
We'd go through the entire list of restaurants that I knew before I finally made the "right" decision.
I. am. never. going. to. go. through. that. again.
My DH has found this game very ineffective with me because I will eliminate all his favorites first to force a compromise. Me: Ok well I don't feel like burgers, sandwiches, or pizza. How about Mexican? DH: Oh. I was thinking horrible, shitty, pizza place. Me: Ok, moderate Italian restaurant it is. I mean seriously, you would think he would know by now that Little Caesar's $5 pizza will never cross my lips. Is it that hard to just pick a place with more than one thing on the menu?
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Robert not Bobby
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Post by Robert not Bobby on Aug 4, 2015 14:50:31 GMT -5
Do any of you deal routinely with people who either cannot make a decision, or who it is clear what they want, but they go to great lengths to be the one to actually say it? The first I can kind of understand given how much information is out there. The second is infuriating. For example, every question is answered by parrying the question back to you. If you ask them to make a choice, they will ask about sub-details. When you eliminate options and get down to "yes, or no", the answer is always "if that's what you prefer" or something along those lines. I think that some people don't want to be held responsible. They will go to great lengths to retain the ability to say "You were the one who chose that, not me". I've started treating that as license to do what I want, especially if I have been reasonably accommodating. Choosing not to choose is a choice, and I've been taught time and time again that an absence of objection is considered approval. You? That is very philosophic. Me, I know my own mind and what I like and want. So, your scenario never happens. Some people are just not sure of themselves.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 4, 2015 21:53:21 GMT -5
This is somewhat true of many smart people. We hate being wrong.
I am mostly over that. I rely on the belief that decisions are like tacking a ship in the wind. You constantly have to adjust. So if you make a wrong decision, you just make a better one next time.
some smart people recognize that you learn from being wrong. You don't learn anything when you insist it's your way or the highway. This is the biggest reason I often prefer posting on P&M versus YM. There is no one P&M way to do things. I think many people realize you learn by being wrong. The unfortunate thing I think, is some feel, you should not make mistakes after a certain age or they should only fall in certain categories.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 4, 2015 21:59:17 GMT -5
Worse (much worse) is the person who has actually made the decision, but wants to make you feel as if you made the decision.
Ex: Where would you like to go to dinner? Anywhere is fine. Me: Mama Mia's Italian restaurant sounds good. Ex: No, not there. Me: Highland's? Ex: No, that's not right.
We'd go through the entire list of restaurants that I knew before I finally made the "right" decision.
I. am. never. going. to. go. through. that. again.
My DH has found this game very ineffective with me because I will eliminate all his favorites first to force a compromise. Me: Ok well I don't feel like burgers, sandwiches, or pizza. How about Mexican? DH: Oh. I was thinking horrible, shitty, pizza place. Me: Ok, moderate Italian restaurant it is. I mean seriously, you would think he would know by now that Little Caesar's $5 pizza will never cross my lips. Is it that hard to just pick a place with more than one thing on the menu? Maybe you should just send him out for take out to two places. Little Caesar's for him, and moderate Italian or whatever place for you. Some men just want you to like or at least approve of their choice(s). It can be viewed as direct approval for him, so keep that in mind.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 5, 2015 5:08:55 GMT -5
There are some people who really don't care what the decision is either way. So, they may seem like wafflers or indecisive when in reality, they don't really care where they go for dinner. Whereas the more decisive types tend to find that strange. lol
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Aug 5, 2015 11:12:45 GMT -5
My DH has found this game very ineffective with me because I will eliminate all his favorites first to force a compromise. Me: Ok well I don't feel like burgers, sandwiches, or pizza. How about Mexican? DH: Oh. I was thinking horrible, shitty, pizza place. Me: Ok, moderate Italian restaurant it is. I mean seriously, you would think he would know by now that Little Caesar's $5 pizza will never cross my lips. Is it that hard to just pick a place with more than one thing on the menu? Maybe you should just send him out for take out to two places. Little Caesar's for him, and moderate Italian or whatever place for you. Some men just want you to like or at least approve of their choice(s). It can be viewed as direct approval for him, so keep that in mind.
Don't worry, he manages to eat plenty of pizza on his own. Fend for yourself nights are probably more common than nights we manage to eat together so I think one of us picking the type and the other picking the restaurant is fair.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Aug 5, 2015 19:47:55 GMT -5
That bit of 'waiting' for a better alternative usually works ok in everyday life - odds are if you wait long enough the 'issue' will resolve itself OR will get to a point where you only ONE option or maybe 2 options to choose from. This way of approaching a decision can be disasterous in the work place. There's often several choices - none of which has a "good" outcome (there are consequences that might be unpleasant). It's been my experience that the longer dwaddling goes on the worse the outcome (ie the problem/consequences just gets worse). Maybe it's the type of work environment I'm in.... Sometimes you make the decision between not so good choice and choose the "evil" you think you can cope with best - you don't wait around for it to get worse or in the mistaken belief that the "Good Outcome Fairy" will come along and magically fix things for you. <-- I've worked for bosses like that. I've also worked with coworkers who knew something was wrong/broken (or there was a pitfall ahead) and said NOTHING. I've also worked with end users who (maybe were too terrified to speak up?) who said NOTHING about some pitfall they knew was waiting. You can guess who I wouldn't choose to be stranded with on a desert island.... Sure. I've been having trouble relating it to work now that I've been removed for a while. I gotta say, most of the times when decisions were evaded, it was due to things happening behind the scenes, the details of which I wasn't privy to. It was annoying though, as you just want to get your work done and keep running into roadblocks. However, charging ahead could get you in trouble, due to the previously mentioned behind the scenes workings. I don't know the answer, I've just happy to be out of that place! Yeah, I was definitely speaking of everyday life rather than work place. My procrastination usually devolves into "little red hen" syndrome - I'll do it myself. Generally at work things move along pretty well, except for the period when my boss suddenly passed away. We kept up on the day to day duties, but there was lots of evasion on long term decisions. If issues came up that were something relatively minor and reasonable, I just jumped in and handled it w/o consulting anyone. Previously I would have deferred to the boss. As it took longer and longer to get a permanent replacement, I got bolder. The previous director reluctantly stepped in temporarily, but she'd been retired 4 years and hadn't handled the business side, so she was often deferring to our opinion of what "R" would do, and wanted to leave many long term decisions for the next incoming boss. Now that we have a new boss, we are explaining how things are done in our system. She is making lots of decisions on new directions, but I've inherited higher level duties, too. I'm not complaining, I'm always up for expanding my knowledge base and skill set. It just feels a bit odd telling the boss what to do. I have generally been approaching her with "How do you want to handle this? A or B or ?" If she asks how we did it in the past, then I explain, and we discuss pros/cons/pitfalls, and brainstorm. There has been a bit of dithering, despite me trying to keep her on deadline. At that point, I back off, it's her deadline to meet or miss.
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