Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 12:43:21 GMT -5
This seems like it should be an easy one.
What is the difference?
Specifically, does adding I think or I feel before a statement make it an opinion rather than a fact.
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techguy
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Post by techguy on Aug 3, 2015 12:49:20 GMT -5
This seems like it should be an easy one. What is the difference? Specifically, does adding I think or I feel before a statement make it an opinion rather than a fact. You can add "I think or I feel" to any opinion you have. However, it may make your opinion wrong. For example, "I think I can kill and rob someone without going to jail". Sure this is your opionion, but it's a wrong one.
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Aug 3, 2015 12:49:35 GMT -5
That's easy!
If you "think or feel" it -- opinion.
If I "think or feel" it -- FACT!
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 3, 2015 12:49:57 GMT -5
I think you're over thinking things...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 12:53:24 GMT -5
Yes. I'm overthinking whether any of my friendships are worth continuing.
So, example. If I say. This June was colder than last. This is a statement of fact. It can be proven true or untrue.
So, if I say instead, I feel like this June was colder than last. Is it now suddenly an opinion and we have to ignore whether data proves it true or false, since it's 'just an opinion'...
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joemilitary
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Post by joemilitary on Aug 3, 2015 12:55:38 GMT -5
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 3, 2015 12:58:40 GMT -5
It is easier to be friends with guys. Much less talking involved.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 3, 2015 12:59:43 GMT -5
This seems like it should be an easy one. What is the difference? Specifically, does adding I think or I feel before a statement make it an opinion rather than a fact. You can add "I think or I feel" to any opinion you have. However, it may make your opinion wrong. For example, "I think I can kill and rob someone without going to jail". Sure this is your opionion, but it's a wrong one. You are right that "I think I can kill and rob someone without going to jail" is an opinion. Opinions aren't right or wrong in general (opinions are usually situational).... There could be some situations whre you could kill and rob someone and not go to jail. you might even feel justified with your action.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 3, 2015 13:01:14 GMT -5
Yes. I'm overthinking whether any of my friendships are worth continuing. So, example. If I say. This June was colder than last. This is a statement of fact. It can be proven true or untrue. So, if I say instead, I feel like this June was colder than last. Is it now suddenly an opinion and we have to ignore whether data proves it true or false, since it's 'just an opinion'... IM(not so)HO, adding I feel or think makes it a fact. The person does, in fact, think or feel that thing. The problem is that people not look at what is provable or not in an objective sense.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 3, 2015 13:02:33 GMT -5
Yes. I'm overthinking whether any of my friendships are worth continuing. So, example. If I say. This June was colder than last. This is a statement of fact. It can be proven true or untrue. So, if I say instead, I feel like this June was colder than last. Is it now suddenly an opinion and we have to ignore whether data proves it true or false, since it's 'just an opinion'... Guess it depends on what someone is trying to 'justify' by nit picking opinion versus fact... And if you are at the point of "justifying" something by using a 'fact' or an 'opinion' - you probably aren't really even discussing the actual problem anymore. Just saying.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 3, 2015 13:03:47 GMT -5
I don't think the words 'I think' or "i feel" automatically make something an opinion. If you don't have data to back yourself up it doesn't matter how you start your sentence.
Course this depends on what we're talking about too. There are some subjects that can't be proven/unproven so really any statement made is a matter of "opinion".
If your friends are this hung up on semantics then yes I'd reconsider your friends.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Aug 3, 2015 13:04:20 GMT -5
Facts to me are things that can be either corroborated, or disproved, using data. I realize that this is not always easy - as data itself can be manipulated.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 3, 2015 13:07:11 GMT -5
Yes. I'm overthinking whether any of my friendships are worth continuing. So, example. If I say. This June was colder than last. This is a statement of fact. It can be proven true or untrue. So, if I say instead, I feel like this June was colder than last. Is it now suddenly an opinion and we have to ignore whether data proves it true or false, since it's 'just an opinion'... I feel this June was colder than last. It wasn't. Look the data up. I don't care what the data says. I said that I feel like it was colder. Well it wasn't colder. So you are wrong. No I am not. How can I be wrong about what I feel. Because you are wrong. A fact is a fact. It is not colder than last June. You can't tell me that my opinion of how I feel is wrong. Yes I can. You are an idiot. I don't want to be your friend any more Me neither. Good bye.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 13:17:10 GMT -5
If I look up the data and it doesn't conform to what I thought I felt, then I examine why my belief might have been at odds with the data, better understand where I was coming from and accommodate my thinking to accept the new information.
Doesn't everybody?
It Isn't them being nit picky, it's me, probably. They are like, it's my opinion, so you can't ask me questions about it or suggest it might not be true, because it's my opinion. So. That's all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 13:19:06 GMT -5
As in currently, it's my opinion we are more racially polarized today than in the past. Or last month, it's my opinion that my rights as a Christian are being threatened by gay marriage.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 3, 2015 13:19:21 GMT -5
There is no such thing as opinion, there are only facts. Facts can be true or false.
Actually, adding "I think" or "I feel" to something makes it a fact. It is a fact that you think that or feel that. It is a fact that you feel like something which is false is true. Your feelings are facts.
I can fly. Fact, but false most likely. I believe I can fly. Fact, could be true if you really believe you can fly.
We simply assign the term "opinion" to our own thoughts when we are unsure, or to the thoughts of others when we are unsure of their statements. Same for when we cannot be sure (i.e. "ghosts are real" is a fact, though maybe true or untrue. Since we can't definitively say, many just label it opinion. That doesn't change that it is either true or untrue)
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 3, 2015 13:20:29 GMT -5
Depends on what we're talking about. I really do not give a crap if August 2014 was really hotter than August 2015 or not. So if someone wants to say they feel like it's hotter then more power to them. The world will not end if I do not research it and prove them (or myself) incorrect. I'm more likely to end up punch and with a lot less friends if I nitpick things this much.
Now if we're arguing some other hot button topics for me I am going to be on fact proving like white on rice.
Then other subjects as I said you can't really prove or disprove it. Technically anything is possible. So until one side or the other gathers enough substantial quantifiable evidence no matter what is said it's all a matter of opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 13:22:22 GMT -5
Chocolate is better than vanilla. Can't really be proven true or false though... Can it?
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 3, 2015 13:24:14 GMT -5
Facts to me are things that can be either corroborated, or disproved, using data. I realize that this is not always easy - as data itself can be manipulated. "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." ~ Mark Twain
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 3, 2015 13:24:11 GMT -5
I've noticed that for some people a relationship/friendship is kind of like a "competition". If there's any sort of 'disagreement" or even a difference of opinion about something inconsequetial - it's all out of balance and one side of the friendship needs to 'win' by actively debating (or arguing) so that both people are in 'agreement'. I think they work under the premise that if you don't both agree on something - their side of the arguement is 'right' and they need to 'win' by getting you to agree with them.
someone has to "win" and someone has to "lose"... there is no 'agree to disagree' there is no "well, I don't really want to do X - and X is more of an inconvenience to me (versus something you HATE to do or something that makes you uncomfortable) BUT you really want to do X so, OK, this time will do X - I dont' need to get my way this time."
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 3, 2015 13:26:23 GMT -5
Well you could do surveys/taste testings and then crunch the numbers to get a statistical result determing whether or not people feel that chocolate is better than vanilla
That's evidence for it. You could also do a bunch of surveys/taste testings that show vanilla is "better" than chocolate which is evidence against it.
You can't prove or disprove anything 100%. There is either a stack of evidence for it or a stack of evidence against it. Whichever one is the bigger more reproducable pile tends to be held up as fact.
For instance aliens. I'd have to say the pile right now is pretty high in the "non-existent pile" but they COULD exisit and I just haven't found the data yet to knock the pedulum the other direction.
So if I tell you that I think aliens don't exist I am not expressing a fact. It's an opinion that at the moment evidence supports. My "fact" could be proven wrong today, tomororw, next year or a lifetime from now.
You can go round and round in circles all day with this.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 3, 2015 13:27:16 GMT -5
Chocolate is better than vanilla. Can't really be proven true or false though... Can it? Better how? Better tasting? That could definitely be proven by hooking up a population to electrodes and getting readings while people at both.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 13:28:13 GMT -5
When is it ok to agree to disagree. And when is it dangerous?
When is is it consequential/ inconsequential?
I don't think I need people to come to my side. Some times I wish they would question their own.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 3, 2015 13:31:09 GMT -5
As in currently, it's my opinion we are more racially polarized today than in the past. Or last month, it's my opinion that my rights as a Christian are being threatened by gay marriage. Those are discussion opening statments based on opinion. I'm not really sure anyone can answer conclusively if we are more/less racially polarized today than in the past. You have to first define what "racially polarized" means AND how you'd measure it... You'd have to ask HOW someone's rights as a Christian are threatened by gay marriage... Unless of course the person making the statements is using these statements as "euphamisms" for something else... like "OMG! the new people next door don't look like/talk like/worship like me!! there goes the neighborhood!!!" Or "I feel personally threatened by gay marriage - because I'm going to potentially be put into an uncomfortable situation when I'm invited to such a wedding or when I have to deal with a same sex couple at some public place/get together." I've noticed there's a lot of "code speak" for many groups of people - it allows them to recoginize like minded people...
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 3, 2015 13:34:09 GMT -5
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 3, 2015 13:34:52 GMT -5
Chocolate is better than vanilla. Can't really be proven true or false though... Can it? Better how? Better tasting? That could definitely be proven by hooking up a population to electrodes and getting readings while people at both. and that would most likely prove the chocolate/vanilla question to be subjective... our 'taste buds' aren't all the same. Some people will like/prefer/enjoy vanilla more than chocolate. It could very well be a 'fact' that YOU like vanilla better than chocolate so therefore vanilla is better.... but it's an opinion to state that EVERYONE else should like vanilla better than chocolate because vanilla is better (for you).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 13:36:47 GMT -5
I did ask how gay marriage was taking away her rights. I was told I was challenging their beliefs and being intolerant of God's people.
The polarization question was more the opinion that we need to 'go back' to a time when we were all Americans first and focused on common goals and I was challenging that idea of a golden age which I don't think is factually accurate... Can't think of a time when that was true representation. But as it was 'her opinion' I'm supposed to let it go.
Actually I'm being told that the very act of me asking questions, or asking for evidence or verifificatoon is an attack. Everyone should be allowed to have their opinions,without being questioned.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 13:40:13 GMT -5
OMG sooooo this opening... I have had so many conversations or email exchanges with students in the last few years wherein I anger them by indicating that simply saying, "This is my opinion" does not preclude a connected statement from being dead wrong. It still baffles me that some feel those four words somehow give them carte blanche to spout batshit oratory or prose. And it really scares me that some of those students think education that challenges their ideas is equivalent to an attack on their beliefs. -Mick Cullen Off to to read he rest...
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 3, 2015 13:42:13 GMT -5
When is it ok to agree to disagree. And when is it dangerous?
When is is it consequential/ inconsequential? I don't think I need people to come to my side. Some times I wish they would question their own. What are you guys discussing? Is it life and death? If you disagree will you be subjected to physical/emotional harm that you cannot escape (like say from your spouse or a crazy stalker friend)? Will you be personally attacked (bullied, made fun of, excluded) if you don't agree? Does faking agreement with the group - hurt someone or make you feel unduly uncomfortable? Or, do the topics just make you feel like you 'don't really know' the other people? And thru them you are discovering that you don't have as much in common with them as you thought?
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DagnyT
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Post by DagnyT on Aug 3, 2015 13:45:56 GMT -5
When is it ok to agree to disagree. And when is it dangerous? When is is it consequential/ inconsequential? I don't think I need people to come to my side. Some times I wish they would question their own. It is usually ok to agree to disagree. No one is going to agree with you all the time. When is it consequential/inconsequential? Seldom If you want others to question their own side, how often do you question your side?
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